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Scuba Forum / UK Scuba / November 2003Personal flares for diving
Anyone know where I can get a set of personal flares and quite possibly a dye marker from? To stick in the pocket of my BCD so must be waterproof- not boat flares. TIA. > Anyone know where I can get a set of personal flares and quite > possibly a dye marker from? To stick in the pocket of my BCD so must > be waterproof- not boat flares. > > TIA. Paines Wessex do a flare called the day + night flare, one end is a smoke/dye, the other is a flare. It's rated to 30M, I keep mine in a plastic container that is rated to 50M. If you want more details mail me. Danny  SignatureThe box said windows 98 or better, so I installed Linux Header is false, correct is Danny at danshome dot org Hi Manic Grin I carry along a 3-shot flare in my BCD for emergencies. The device is made by Comet and I add a bit of siliconeglue on the tread to make sure the O-ring does not leak. I have dived the thing ca. 100 times. (max to 50m.) Once a year I replace the flares and reseal the cap. http://www.globetrotter.de/de/shop/detail.php?&mod_nr=km06001&artbez=Comet+Signa lger%E4t+ClickMag Hi again In addition to the Comet system I gave, there is another company that produces a 4 flare diving device. Go to: http://www.nico-pyro.de/safety/index_en.htm and follow the tabs => 'Signal-Ammunition' => 'NICOSIGNAL' => 'Products' then click on the link '9364 - NICOSIGNAL Handy Scuba ' for the details. (Site navigation is not the best I've seen ...) Or to go straight to the page use this 'short' link ... http://www.nico-pyro.de/safety/product.php?lg=en&topic=265&gruppe=Safety%20%26am p%3B%20Rescue%20Products&untergruppe=NICOSIGNAL ;-> gjw e-mail (replace , with a .) >and follow the tabs => 'Signal-Ammunition' => 'NICOSIGNAL' => 'Products' >then click on the link '9364 - NICOSIGNAL Handy Scuba ' for the details. >(Site navigation is not the best I've seen ...) The Nicosignal is indeed a good piece of kit, even though it does appear have been redesigned to hold only 4 flares instead of 6. Bear in mind though that to legally own one of these in the United Kingdom, you require a Class 1 firearms license. Some boffin buried in the depths of the Home Office decided that the aluminium cartridge case constituted a 'barrel'. Regards, Pete Signature____________________________________________________________________ Pete Young pete@antipope.org Remove dot. to reply "Just another crouton, floating on the bouillabaisse of life" >The Nicosignal is indeed a good piece of kit, even though it does >appear have been redesigned to hold only 4 flares instead of 6. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >depths of the Home Office decided that the aluminium cartridge case >constituted a 'barrel'. Oh, ye gods. Are they pistols under normal firearms control rules then, meaning I'll have to leave it in the locker at the gun club? Gah. Cheers - Jaimie Signature"Come now, my child, if we were planning to harm you, do you think we'd be lurking here, beside the path, in the very darkest part of the forest?" - Kenneth Patchen, "But Even So" >>The Nicosignal is indeed a good piece of kit, even though it does >>appear have been redesigned to hold only 4 flares instead of 6. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Gah. Pistols, gunclub, UK, rotflmao. That was what the experts the government paid huge amounts of money suggested they do. The hysterical housewives without a clue but very into tabloid papers said ban them entirely. Guess what the government did.... I think black powder stuff is exempt. Normal pistols, not in this country. Danny (who lost a most enjoyable hobby when this happened!) SignatureThe box said windows 98 or better, so I installed Linux Header is false, correct is Danny at danshome dot org >Bear in mind though that to legally own one of these in the United Kingdom, >you require a Class 1 firearms license. Some boffin buried in the >depths of the Home Office decided that the aluminium cartridge case >constituted a 'barrel'. Unbelievable A couple of years ago when I was into paintball they made a dart out of a syringe and fired it from a marker, unsurprisingly they said it could seriously hurt or kill someone and on that basis they decided a paintball mark was a section 5 firearm - i.e. rated exactly the same as a sawn off shotgun Pete diving 'at' melbourne 'dot' me 'dot' uk Thanks. Impressed as usual by the response. Good enough to make a brave man weep. Oooh- what about the dye markers? Anyone use these? Thanks. >Anyone know where I can get a set of personal flares and quite >possibly a dye marker from? To stick in the pocket of my BCD so must >be waterproof- not boat flares. > >TIA. >Oooh- what about the dye markers? Anyone use these? The HSE did some research a few years ago into the best devices to help yourself get located after a separation - dye markers were not rated too high but were useful from the air - see the full report here:- http://www.jeanelaine.co.uk/diveraids/contents.htm Pete diving 'at' melbourne 'dot' me 'dot' uk Thinking of getting together an 'ooooh bugger where's the boat' pack to strap to the cylinder(s). From the (very useful) replies in this thread (thanks) and the HSE report I'll be looking at the following: Yellow foldable flag with strobe attachment- I'll make this myself and post the design as I normally make a better job than commercially available stuff. Dye marker (for location from the air). EPIRB (when I'm feeling flush so not before Christmas!) Looks like flares are not the way to go- expensive, prone to water ingress and difficult to get going with cold hands. Plus I'll need a firearms licence, bullet proof vest, gun cabinet and police escort to use the Nico flares. Should do the trick. Manic Grin #>On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:28:13 +0000, Manic Grin <manic_grin@yahoo.com> >wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Pete >diving 'at' melbourne 'dot' me 'dot' uk > Thinking of getting together an 'ooooh bugger where's the boat' pack > to strap to the cylinder(s). From the (very useful) replies in this > thread (thanks) and the HSE report I'll be looking at the following: > Yellow foldable flag with strobe attachment- I'll make this myself and > post the design as I normally make a better job than commercially > available stuff. Dye marker (for location from the air). > EPIRB (when I'm feeling flush so not before Christmas!) The flag and strobe is well worth while, the famous UKRS flag cost me less than a fiver to make using kite material and electrical conduit. I remain to be convinced about diving EPIRB's - 1) They may be better now but earlier ones flooded and were useless, mine did, I got rid of it 2) They have a very limited range 3) The diving ones use a rescue location frequency, most dive boats (and certainly club RIBs) don't have that. What's the commonest separation problem? You can see them, they can't see you! you can see your boat, you can't contact it, they end up calling the chopper... I'm still mulling this one over, rather than a diving EPIRB I'm considering a waterproof marine VHF, in a suitable container. Small, light, around the same price as an EPIRB? a) Useful as a back-up in the boat, useful anyway b) If you can see your boat (majority case?) you can talk to it c) You can talk a chopper in from quite a distance d) Add a cheap GPS to your kit and you can TELL them where you are! Just my thoughts Keith L Have been having exactly the same thoughts too (are you a mind reader?). Flag and strobe is a definite. Would add another length of thin conduit across the top of the flag to make it stand proud even without any wind. Am going to use a hi-viz flouro vest for the material and use one of the relective strips vertically down the pole-side of the flag. Pass the thimble. EPIRB's I agree are expensive but not as expensive as the kit to locate them. Only really useful if you are in the middle of the sea and waiting for the chopper. Am going off the idea rapidly although they can be bought for 99 quid so we'll see. I also thought about the VHF but finding a VHF small enough (with antenna) to be neatly stowed in a container could be tricky. Would be more use than an EPIRB. Mind you, add a Garmin e-trex and, as you say, you can talk them over to exactly your position. Add a PDA with mapping and you can even tell yourself where you are. Stick a mobile phone card on it and you can email them too... now I'm being silly. Mind you, you could then browse Ebay to buy even more kit while you're waiting. Manic Grin. >> Thinking of getting together an 'ooooh bugger where's the boat' pack >> to strap to the cylinder(s). From the (very useful) replies in this [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > >Keith L > I'm considering > a waterproof marine VHF, in a suitable container. Small, light, around the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > b) If you can see your boat (majority case?) you can talk to it > c) You can talk a chopper in from quite a distance I can just imagine the calls from a separated diver to his boat: "Oi. I'm over here." "Well here is here innit? Where else would I be?" "Of course I'm sure I'm at the surface. I'm only twenty yards away from you so just come and get me." "No. Not that way, this way!" "Turn left you plonker. You're going away from me." "Look. Come round by that big wave and you'll see me." "What do you mean 'which big wave'? The one with all the white foam at the top." "But there's only one big foamy wave for miles. Are you blind or something?." "OK. Try this. You see that fluffy white cloud in the sky? Motor towards it and I am right underneath." "No. I mean the other cloud. The one that looks like a blob of cotton wool." "O sod it! I'll call the Coastguard and get a helicopter." Cliff. > "Keith Lawrence" <false@nospam.com> wrote in message > > I'm considering > > a waterproof marine VHF, in a suitable container. Small, light, around the > > same price as an EPIRB? > > a) Useful as a back-up in the boat, useful anyway > > b) If you can see your boat (majority case?) you can talk to it > > c) You can talk a chopper in from quite a distance > I can just imagine the calls from a separated diver to his boat: > "Oi. I'm over here." True - but the sheer SATISFACTION at hurling abuse at the skipper whilst you bob about with them looking for you must be worth the extra hassle, you can also order you tea/coffee (just the way you like it) to be handed to you immediately you board :-) K > > "Keith Lawrence" <false@nospam.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > also order you tea/coffee (just the way you like it) to be handed to you > immediately you board :-) Hurl too much abuse and the tea/coffee may be just the way you DON'T like it. In fact it may be hurled AT you. Cliff. >> I'm considering >> a waterproof marine VHF, in a suitable container. Small, light, around the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > "Of course I'm sure I'm at the surface. I'm only twenty yards away from you > so just come and get me." <snip> Or, if they had though about it, just give the skipper the reciprocal bearing to steer and you are sorted: "Where are you?" "600 metres, 140 degrees magnetic from your current position." > >> I'm considering > >> a waterproof marine VHF, in a suitable container. Small, light, around the [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > "Where are you?" > "600 metres, 140 degrees magnetic from your current position." Spoilsport. Cliff. > I'm still mulling this one over, rather than a diving EPIRB I'm considering > a waterproof marine VHF, in a suitable container. Small, light, around the > same price as an EPIRB? Interesting thought, I would think you'd have problems with reception though. While you'll probably be able to hear the coastguard okay, the fact that you're so low down (in the water!) and the set will be fairly low power means that the coastguard might not be able to hear you (very frustrating). Hmm, you'd need a GPS as well of course... ;) Al. Either of these look great, or as a German exchange student used to say; "rock and roll, maximum bad!". But he was a bit of a tit. Are there any UK suppliers of either units or do I have to brush up on my German? Thanks. >Anyone know where I can get a set of personal flares and quite >possibly a dye marker from? To stick in the pocket of my BCD so must >be waterproof- not boat flares. > >TIA. > Anyone know where I can get a set of personal flares and quite > possibly a dye marker from? To stick in the pocket of my BCD so must > be waterproof- not boat flares. Assuming that you are intending these to be used to locate a lost diver, then have you considered the alternative option of an EPIRB? I have this one http://www.seamarshall.demon.co.uk/pb.html I bought this as a modern equivalent to flares when my old packet was about 10 years out of date ;-) Cheers Matt. >> Anyone know where I can get a set of personal flares and quite >> possibly a dye marker from? To stick in the pocket of my BCD so must [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Cheers >Matt. But it goes off after 20 seconds in water! Rocket Robertson The slowest Pool Player > >> Anyone know where I can get a set of personal flares and quite > >> possibly a dye marker from? To stick in the pocket of my BCD so must [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > But it goes off after 20 seconds in water! no only IF it is armed anyway you are best of keeping it in a watertight housing > > But it goes off after 20 seconds in water! > > no only IF it is armed > anyway you are best of keeping it in a watertight housing You do not need to keep it in a watertight housing, you just put it in your pocket. The Arm switch is protected from accidental switch on and the unit is waterproof. Cheers Matt. According to their site, you need a housing for diving. Doesn't mention max depth without one.... any comments? Woz. >> > But it goes off after 20 seconds in water! >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Cheers >Matt. > > > But it goes off after 20 seconds in water! > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > pocket. The Arm switch is protected from accidental switch on and the unit > is waterproof. Wow. Are you sure it'll take the pressure? If so are we talking 10 metres or are we talking 200? Alun Harford Found the answer: http://www.safety-marine.com/sm/product.asp?dept%5Fid=11&pf%5Fid=SM0169 They make a dive-specific version rated at 100m. >> > > But it goes off after 20 seconds in water! >> > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Alun Harford > http://www.safety-marine.com/sm/product.asp?dept%5Fid=11&pf%5Fid=SM0169 > They make a dive-specific version rated at 100m. ACR also makes one designed for diving. At least some of the boats in the Agressor Fleet use the ACR model and have an on directional antenna/receiver for locating the signals. ACR's on line for those that are interested. I finally got up from my chair and went out to the RIB. I've got a kit made by Skyblazer called the Scuba Signal Pack. It comes in a compact mesh case with a handy clip in the back and contains two pressure proof flares, a reflector and a whistle. It was a Christmas gift from a buddy that used to spearfish with me in waters too far from land to lend hope of self recovery in case of a problem. I got him one for his birthday. They are quite reasonably priced, about $20 US. Lee > >> > > But it goes off after 20 seconds in water! > >> > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > > >Alun Harford >> http://www.safety-marine.com/sm/product.asp?dept%5Fid=11&pf%5Fid=SM0169 >> They make a dive-specific version rated at 100m. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Lee The Safety Marine site referred to in this thread also sells ACR products including the ACR Vecta2 121.5MHz Direction Finder for the 121.5MHz Emergency Homing Frequency. Combine that with the aforementioned Sea Marshall DIVERS PLB 8-LD (max depth 100 meters and same emergency frequency of course), which obviously works better for divers than ACR's MiniB300 (max depth only 10 meters) and if the dive boat doesn't find you, air rescue will. It stands to reason divers equipped with personal EPIRBs will be looking for boat operators equipped with directional finders so the market could put the finders on the boats if enough divers get personal EPIRBs. Btw, missing divers often cannot see the dive boat due to the speed of the current, inclement weather and the search pattern. 5 to 10 minutes of separation - the amount of time it takes to round up the other divers and get them back in the boat - is all it takes in a 3 knot current. Add big waves, blinding sun, wind or rain and perhaps a captain who does not fully understand local conditions and you will be extremely thankful you bought a personal EPIRB and chose to dive with a boat equipped with a directional finder. One final comment in the interest of accuracy since you cited the Aggressor boats as an example of an organization that utilizes the ACR system. Wayne Hasson and DAN made a lot of noise a couple of years ago about equipping Aggressor boats with ACR's system yet two Cocos Aggressor divers were lost on a drift dive recently. Of all the places in the world where a conscientious boat operator would want to utilize the EPIRB safety system, Cocos Island would have to be at the top of the list. But the Cocos Aggressor did NOT provide divers with personal EPIRBs and two people died who probably would be alive today if the Cocos Aggressor had, in fact, been equipped with the ACR system as promised. > Wow. Are you sure it'll take the pressure? If so are we talking 10 metres or > are we talking 200? Yes, they can. They are waterproof to deeper than there recommended maximum depth. Cheers Matt. Am looking into this too. There's a few on the market, from the PLB8 fag packet one to the FastFind unit from Pains Wessex. Appears you can get a housing for either of these but I'll probably make one myself (owning an engineering company is useful sometimes...) >> Anyone know where I can get a set of personal flares and quite >> possibly a dye marker from? To stick in the pocket of my BCD so must [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Cheers >Matt. > Anyone know where I can get a set of personal flares and quite > possibly a dye marker from? To stick in the pocket of my BCD so must > be waterproof- not boat flares. > > TIA. Oh come on, dive gear is unfashionable enough, without flares and tie dye... Are you trying to say my arse looks big in this? Manic Grin >> Anyone know where I can get a set of personal flares and quite >> possibly a dye marker from? To stick in the pocket of my BCD so must [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Oh come on, dive gear is unfashionable enough, without flares and tie >dye... > Are you trying to say my arse looks big in this? > > Manic Grin *stands well back with an active taser between himself and Maniac* Yes... ;) rhys |
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