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Scuba Forum / UK Scuba / November 2003PADI Adventure Diver? Adventure Dives
What makes a Padi adventure diver? afaik 3 "adventure dives" is an "Adventure Diver", 5 including deep and nav is an "Advanced Diver" Assuming you dont do a course for all dives, can you have the dives "signed off" individually and build up to the cert? If so what do you need to get a dive classed as an "adventure dive" - Do you need an instructor or will a DM do? I assume that there is a knowledge review in the manual to fill in to (but no theory) Once you have all your dives signed off can you then apply to padi for the cert? or would this need to be done by an instructor what you complete your last dive? Any idea how much padi registration costs (in ? or USD) > What makes a Padi adventure diver? > > afaik 3 "adventure dives" is an "Adventure Diver", 5 including deep and nav > is an "Advanced Diver" No, it does not make you an 'Advanced Diver' - it makes you an 'Advanced Open Water' diver which is effectively a fancy term for 'Entry Level Diver with a few more skills under his belt'. Do not let the 'Advanced' tag go to your head - with an AOW ticket, you are definately *NOT* an Advanced Diver! Personally I've always found it rather jarring that PADI insist on using the word 'Advanced' so early on in a diver's career - it's just asking for trouble! As an instructor friend of mine used to say, the most dangerous diver is a recently certified Advanced Open Water diver - that 'A' word often goes to their heads!!!!! > Assuming you dont do a course for all dives, can you have the dives "signed > off" individually and build up to the cert? I see no reason why the three dives couldn't be signed off by three different instructors but bear in mind the instructor that signs off your third dive will effectively become your 'certifying instructor' (ie. it's his name that appears on your cert card!), so he'll be keen to ensure that the first two dives were completed to a required standard. > If so what do you need to get a dive classed as an "adventure dive" - Do you > need an instructor or will a DM do? I assume that there is a knowledge > review in the manual to fill in to (but no theory) No, a DM cannot sign you off for an 'adventure dive' - this can only be done by an accompanying instructor once you've a) completed the relevant knowledge review in the PADI Adventures in Diving manual and b) completed the dive to the instructor's satisfaction. When you say there's 'no theory', there is - it's just home study rather than lecture-based theory you will have had to sit through on your OW. > Once you have all your dives signed off can you then apply to padi for the > cert? or would this need to be done by an instructor what you complete your > last dive? Once again, you cannot apply to PADI for a certification unless an instructor has signed you off. Without an instructor's signature (and even then, the instructor must be a current PADI member with an active teaching status), your PIC card will not be accepted. > Any idea how much padi registration costs (in ? or USD) Well the PIC itself doesn't cost that much - about ?15, as I remember. This is just a materials charge, though, as the instructor will obviously want to be paid for their time! > > What makes a Padi adventure diver? > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Open Water' diver which is effectively a fancy term for 'Entry Level Diver > with a few more skills under his belt'. Sorry about not making this clear - totally agree that an OW who has completed AOW is by no means Advanced - really the term "adventure diver" is better, as am AOW could be someone with as little as 9 dives. (ps I am a PADI RD myself) Thanks for the info on cetification. > > > What makes a Padi adventure diver? > > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > better, as am AOW could be someone with as little as 9 dives. (ps I am a > PADI RD myself) Agreed 100% John - personally I think PADI should rename AOW to 'Adventure Diver Plus' or something along those lines... certainly the word 'advanced' shouldn't be used until much later on in the PADI training system! Some would argue that perhaps it shouldn't appear at all! ;-) > Agreed 100% John - personally I think PADI should rename AOW to 'Adventure > Diver Plus' or something along those lines... certainly the word 'advanced' > shouldn't be used until much later on in the PADI training system! Some > would argue that perhaps it shouldn't appear at all! ;-) Wouldnt be a bad idea, but we all know that PADI find it easier to "sell" an OW student the "Advanced Course" rather than make them shell out money for 5 dives, which only makes them an "Adventure Diver Plus" and does not seem as worthwhile to the new student. Personally I find little value in the AOW. After the completion of the basic OW course what is needed is experience in the water rather than 5 more packaged dives. A Open Water diver with 100 dives completed will be a far more competant diver than an "Advanced" who has done his 4 training dives, and his 5 "advanced" dives. You usually get more navigation experience on a average dive in Stoney, than swimming a square on your advanced course in the red sea! Unfortuanly due to PADI system the AOW has to be completed to take the Rescue Course, (a course that is actually useful). Quite why rescue cant be taken after the preterminded number of dives (experience) rather than AOW I dont know (hang on, PADI couldnt miss out on selling the AOW course!) p.s I am in the PADI camp, so hopefully you will understand that I am not PADI bashing. However BSAC are as bad renaming the entry course from Novice Diver to Ocean Diver to make it more marketable. > > Agreed 100% John - personally I think PADI should rename AOW to 'Adventure > > Diver Plus' or something along those lines... certainly the word [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > dives, which only makes them an "Adventure Diver Plus" and does not seem as > worthwhile to the new student. And by being easy to sell it gets newly qualified divers take more training, learn new skills, go diving, have new experiences... ...I know this sounds like PADI marketing propaganda but bear with me... > Personally I find little value in the AOW. After the completion of the basic > OW course what is needed is experience in the water rather than 5 more [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > average dive in Stoney, than swimming a square on your advanced course in > the red sea! I found AOW very useful in that I did OW abroad and had no drysuit skills, no low viz skills etc. By doing my AOW here (and doing the Drysuit elective) I gained those skills (and before anyone shouts "What about the DSMB?".... forget it, its been done to death, everyone agrees it should be in there...) And yes you are correct that an OW with 100 dives is going to be more competent than the AOW with a total of nine. But I put it to you that the AOW with those nine dives is going to be better (on average...) than the OW who has completed 5 dives on his tod...? Comparing Granny Smiths and Satsumas achieves nothing, but here we can see that the Gala is far superior to the Golden Delicious... > Unfortuanly due to PADI system the AOW has to be completed to take the > Rescue Course, (a course that is actually useful). Quite why rescue cant be > taken after the preterminded number of dives (experience) rather than AOW I > dont know (hang on, PADI couldnt miss out on selling the AOW course!) Of course there is a very large element of PADI trying to make more $$$$, but on top of that and from a PADI student's point of view I would say that by doing the AOW in between you are either increasing your skills (if you haven't done much diving after OW) or giving you confidence in the skills and experience you have built up as an OW. This is of course what also makes it "dangerous". I think it is up to the instructors, though, to really bang home the fact that it is not "Advanced Diver" but "Advanced OPEN WATER Diver" i.e. you are still just an OW but you have advanced your training and experience a little bit... > p.s I am in the PADI camp, so hopefully you will understand that I am not > PADI bashing. However BSAC are as bad renaming the entry course from Novice > Diver to Ocean Diver to make it more marketable. I suspect that every agency has its little foibles that are easier to see from the inside! However it often helps to read between the lines of the marketing hype and see the good that is there whether meant or not! And as you will see by the link below, I don't consider AOW good enough for a regular UK diver either! CAS -- PADI AOW? Get Rescue Training on UKRS Course #1 - http://divesite.calumscott.me.uk/ukrs/rescue_diver_2004 Temperature @ Stoney? Find it or share it @ http://stoneytemps.calumscott.me.uk/ > Agreed 100% John - personally I think PADI should rename AOW to 'Adventure > Diver Plus' or something along those lines... certainly the word 'advanced' > shouldn't be used until much later on in the PADI training system! Some > would argue that perhaps it shouldn't appear at all! ;-) well all my friends who don't dive seem impressed when I tell them I am an Advanced Diver. Its a shame I then have to tell them that Advanced is really an entry level certification. I think changing the name to something other than Advanced would make the accident rate fall. I meet so many Advanced divers who are not. I just went diving in Sydney with weedy sea dragons. Before the dive the guide asked some one if he was ok with the dive. he said "Yes ive done a fair few dives" pushed a little further he admitted to only 19 dives. We dived in a group of four the guide and this diver , Karen and myself Karen who is usually has a good sac ran low on air enough for the guide to change the buddy pairs and surface with Karen. Leaving me with a young 19 dive diver who I did not know. We only buddied for another ten mins or so. Knowing he only had 19 dives behind him did change the way I treated my buddy but He was fine "Well nothing went wrong". The point I was trying to make Knowing how many dives he had done was better than Knowing his qualification. Regards David > Knowing how many dives he had done > was better than Knowing his qualification. I am not neccessarily dissagreeing with you but how many dives constitute an"advanced diver" or conversely what kind of experience?? I still prefer the old OWII and then advanced but that still ment that you had a very limited amount of dives and experience to be labeled "advanced" 2c worth Richard > Regards David > > Knowing how many dives he had done > > was better than Knowing his qualification. > I am not neccessarily dissagreeing with you but how many dives constitute > an"advanced diver" i think that is the point the name advanced dive does not match the card > > > Knowing how many dives he had done > > > was better than Knowing his qualification. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > i think that is the point the name advanced dive does not match the > card The term Advanced Diver in its own right means nothing. The fact of the matter is that the certification we are discussing is "Advanced OPEN WATER Diver" - that is an Open Water Diver with more training and supervised experience than a standard Open Water Diver. Nothing more, nothing less. And lets face it, who is actually impressed by someone calling themselves an Advanced Open Water Diver? Non-divers, that's who... CAS -- PADI AOW? Get Rescue Training on UKRS Course #1 - http://divesite.calumscott.me.uk/ukrs/rescue_diver_2004 Temperature @ Stoney? Find it or share it @ http://stoneytemps.calumscott.me.uk/ >> > > Knowing how many dives he had done >> > > was better than Knowing his qualification. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >The term Advanced Diver in its own right means nothing. Actually it means a pretty senior qualification within BSAC... >The fact of the >matter is that the certification we are discussing is "Advanced OPEN WATER [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >CAS ------------------------------------- York BSAC Web Page: http://website.lineone.net/~york_bsac > >> > > Knowing how many dives he had done > >> > > was better than Knowing his qualification. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Actually it means a pretty senior qualification within BSAC... Sorreeee... in the context of PADI qualifications.... blah de blah CAS -- PADI AOW? Get Rescue Training on UKRS Course #1 - http://divesite.calumscott.me.uk/ukrs/rescue_diver_2004 Temperature @ Stoney? Find it or share it @ http://stoneytemps.calumscott.me.uk/ > The term Advanced Diver in its own right means nothing. The fact of the > matter is that the certification we are discussing is "Advanced OPEN WATER > Diver" - that is an Open Water Diver with more training and supervised > experience than a standard Open Water Diver. Nothing more, nothing less. No... AOW does not mean more training. It should, but for the first day of my AOW, I think I gave more instruction to the other 2 on the course (who were on about dive 7, and in cold water for the first time) than the instructor did. They'd not even (by their own admission) read the relevant chapters in the book. All that having AOW seems to do is make it less of a legal risk for a guide to take me on a >18m dive, and it gives evidence that I've completed another 5 dives of about 20 min. each, unlike the other dives in my log book which I could have made up. I wasn't expecting to learn much from doing the AOW course, but I was rather shocked that two divers who would have benefited from a days intensive 1:1 training in bouyancy control were basically dragged through the dives with no effort being made to either improve their skills or discourage them from diving. Sean > No... AOW does not mean more training. It should, but for the first > day of my AOW, I think I gave more instruction to the other 2 on the [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Sean The point is that the instructor is more important than the qualification. There are some who want to sign everybody off after a 20 min dive, and there are the _real_ instructors who try to teach you something. Some people want to go through the PADI system paying a lot of money for guided dives which give them a pretty piece of plastic but I for one am paying for some education and training. Why did you do the AOW if you wern't expecting to get anything out of it? Sounds like a waste of money to me. Keith > rather shocked that two divers who would have benefited from a days > intensive 1:1 training in bouyancy control were basically dragged > through the dives with no effort being made to either improve their > skills or discourage them from diving. > > Sean I don't think your experience is all that unusual. I dived with a guy in aus who had brand new kit, free air fills and had just passed his AOW but he still could not dive. The problem with a student who buys all new kit while on a course it oftern helps gain a pass mark (cant fail AOW i know) the thing is on this same dive there were flowers laid on rocks by entry point for a driver who had not surfaced. (1 week before) Same shop same bad instruction. I dont use them any more. Regards David > > The term Advanced Diver in its own right means nothing. The fact of the > > matter is that the certification we are discussing is "Advanced OPEN WATER [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > They'd not even (by their own admission) read the relevant chapters in > the book. That is not the fault of the course, that is the fault of the instructor (for being quite obviously crap) and the students (for not taking it seriously - home study is home study and should be completed if that is the way the course is being conducted). > All that having AOW seems to do is make it less of a legal risk for a > guide to take me on a >18m dive, and it gives evidence that I've > completed another 5 dives of about 20 min. each, unlike the other > dives in my log book which I could have made up. Yup, because as part of your AOW you have done the "deep" adventure dive and gone into the risks and risk management of deeper diver a little more than you had previously. It also (depending on your elective dives) gives you more experience (OK.. AN experience) of different types of diving, personally I did drysuit (because I had just bought one and never dived in one), Night and Wreck (although that wasn't particularly useful - I'd have been better picking something else and doing the full wreck speciality...) So not just 5 dives - you've gone deeper than your previous 18m "limit" with instruction, you've proved that you can perform basic navigation tasks (rather than just following a compass out and back), that you have experience of diving in a drysuit (including righting techniques when your feet fill with air!), that you have experienced a night dive and that you have visited a wreck and not done anything stupid while you were there... > I wasn't expecting to learn much from doing the AOW course, but I was > rather shocked that two divers who would have benefited from a days > intensive 1:1 training in bouyancy control were basically dragged > through the dives with no effort being made to either improve their > skills or discourage them from diving. I wasn't expecting to learn much from mine either... ...but I did. Sounds like you picked the wrong dive centre. I've said it before many times and I've just read that Keith Manning has just said it - the quality of any course from any agency is only ever as good as the instructor. On top of that you get out what you put in. So the numpties on your course put in zero effort prior to the course conducted by a crap instructor... ...tell me what outcome you would be expecting in this circumstance (and we'll leave out "dead divers"...) CAS -- PADI AOW? Get Rescue Training on UKRS Course #1 - http://divesite.calumscott.me.uk/ukrs/rescue_diver_2004 Temperature @ Stoney? Find it or share it @ http://stoneytemps.calumscott.me.uk/ "CAS" <calumscottTAKETHISBITOUT@yahoo.com> wrote > So not just 5 dives - you've gone deeper than your previous 18m "limit" with > instruction, you've proved that you can perform basic navigation tasks > (rather than just following a compass out and back), that you have > experience of diving in a drysuit (including righting techniques when your > feet fill with air!), that you have experienced a night dive and that you > have visited a wreck and not done anything stupid while you were there... Didn't quite break my previous 'deepest' dive, already done some 'real' compass work, already lost a buddy in UK vis, and dived with a drysuit before - so I've not really gained any new experiences, just more time in the water... I'll grant that numpties will have done new things, but I'm not sure that they learnt much, other than that they are now safe to dive to 30m... > So the numpties on your course put in zero effort prior to the course > conducted by a crap instructor... > > ...tell me what outcome you would be expecting in this circumstance (and > we'll leave out "dead divers"...) Yes, I did save £50 by picking the cheaper of my local schools, and maybe I learnt stuff I didn't notice (like a little about diving with and guiding numpties), but I was concerned that there seemed to be very little effort made to impress on the numpties that the sort of diving that they were moving towards was getting quite serious. No review of the use of tables, for example. They seemed intent on progressing towards diving UK wrecks, after doing a wreck course. I assume they'll stay with the same school, maybe get a better instructor, maybe not - but I can't help feeling they'd do much better in a club environment where there isn't so much pressure on reaching fairly arbitary targets... Sean > more time in the water... I'll grant that numpties will have done new > things, but I'm not sure that they learnt much, other than that they > are now safe to dive to 30m... Who said they are safe then don't believe what is on the plastic card on TV the other night someone managed to get a driving licence for a blind MP ????? when is he going to be safe to drive. identity fraud > Didn't quite break my previous 'deepest' dive, already done some > 'real' compass work, already lost a buddy in UK vis, and dived with a > drysuit before - so I've not really gained any new experiences, just > more time in the water... I'll grant that numpties will have done new > things, but I'm not sure that they learnt much, other than that they > are now safe to dive to 30m... I'll ask the question again; Why did you do the AOW if you wern't expecting to get anything out of it? You keep putting down the "numpties" who were beginners doing what is essentially the next step up from a beginners course, and yet you admit to going into a course that in your opinion was beneath you. Maybe you were the one on the wrong course. Just out of interest, how many dives did you have before you started the course? > Yes, I did save ?50 by picking the cheaper of my local schools, and > maybe I learnt stuff I didn't notice (like a little about diving with > and guiding numpties), but I was concerned that there seemed to be > very little effort made to impress on the numpties that the sort of > diving that they were moving towards was getting quite serious. No > review of the use of tables, for example. If you have concerns, then let PADI quality control know. www.padi.com for contact information. >They seemed intent on > progressing towards diving UK wrecks, after doing a wreck course. It sounds like they know their limitations. Keith > Sean > > So not just 5 dives - you've gone deeper than your previous 18m "limit" with > > instruction, you've proved that you can perform basic navigation tasks [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > things, but I'm not sure that they learnt much, other than that they > are now safe to dive to 30m... OK, so the "deep" and navigation are mandatory - had you gone to a better school they would have been more accomodating and been able to offer you a range of elective adventure dives which might have held more interest for you, like DPVs, videography or whatever. The numpties, through plenty of fault of their own and plenty of the instructors, are NOT now safe to dive to 30m. Unfortunately, being numpties, they probably don't realise this. As an AOW, I feel comfortable diving to 30m, the diving aspect is no different from 18m except that it takes longer to get down and longer to get back. What I am very uncomfortable with is the fact that I would be pretty shafted if things got more than a little technical... hence the link in the sig... > > So the numpties on your course put in zero effort prior to the course > > conducted by a crap instructor... [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > very little effort made to impress on the numpties that the sort of > diving that they were moving towards was getting quite serious. And that is the fault of a) the instructor for not going over it in the theory sessions and b) the students for not reading the damn book - its all in there! > No > review of the use of tables, for example. That, I believe is a prerequisite of the course and is the responsibility of the student to make sure they are up to scratch BEFORE taking AOW. > They seemed intent on > progressing towards diving UK wrecks, after doing a wreck course. Doing a wreck course when you want to dive on wrecks is, I'm sure you'll agree, a bloody good idea and especially seeing as these divers are new and inexperienced. > I > assume they'll stay with the same school, maybe get a better [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Sean Hmmm... maybe they will, maybe they won't. What is not the case is that they would do any better in a club environment. From what I've gathered from various sources and my time in non-diving related clubs I would suggest that if these people lack the motivation to even read the book with the theory of the skills that will keep them swimming then they will lack the motivation to put the effort into a club that is required to get the output and results from that club. They are the people who turn up for two months then vanish... CAS -- PADI AOW? Get Rescue Training on UKRS Course #1 - http://divesite.calumscott.me.uk/ukrs/rescue_diver_2004 Temperature @ Stoney? Find it or share it @ http://stoneytemps.calumscott.me.uk/ "CAS" <calumscottTAKETHISBITOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:bq1tot$1sa4cl$1@ID- > The numpties, through plenty of fault of their own and plenty of the > instructors, are NOT now safe to dive to 30m. Unfortunately, being > numpties, they probably don't realise this. Could somebody please define "numptie" for me. Reading into the context I take it as being someone who is not very experienced. Am I the only one who realises 2 fundamental facts here; 1. As we are not fish or amphibians it would seem that we all went through a "numpty" phase with our diving. Surely we should encourage and help these people out rather than christen them with misnomers. 2. How do you become not a "numpty"? MAYBE BY TAKING BASIC LEVEL DIVING COURSES? If someone was taking a trimix course and had poor buoyancy control, I would mark you right. But they were on an entry level course FFS. > As an AOW, I feel comfortable > diving to 30m, the diving aspect is no different from 18m except that it > takes longer to get down and longer to get back. Except the surface is 12m further away when the brown stuff hits the air conditioning. >What I am very > uncomfortable with is the fact that I would be pretty shafted if things got > more than a little technical... hence the link in the sig... Good descision. You'll get a lot out of it. Keith > "CAS" <calumscottTAKETHISBITOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:bq1tot$1sa4cl$1@ID- [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Could somebody please define "numptie" for me. Reading into the context I > take it as being someone who is not very experienced. Ah, OK. Someone who is not very experienced would be described as a "newbie". A "numpty" will probably never get very experienced as his lack of commitment, lack of intellect, disregard for training, inability to think for himself or any number of other numptyisms will either kill him or he will get bored because no-one will dive with him and give up the sport. > Am I the only one who > realises 2 fundamental facts here; > > 1. As we are not fish or amphibians it would seem that we all went through a > "numpty" phase with our diving. Surely we should encourage and help these > people out rather than christen them with misnomers. Hopefully not! As per definitions above we all went through a "newbie" phase, some of us will have gone through a "numpty" phase. The ones to worry about are the "born-numpties" and those who enter a numpty phase and never make it out the other side... > 2. How do you become not a "numpty"? MAYBE BY TAKING BASIC LEVEL DIVING > COURSES? If someone was taking a trimix course and had poor buoyancy > control, I would mark you right. But they were on an entry level course FFS. Nope, becoming "Not-A-Numpty" takes more than diver-training. It takes an attitude-reajustment. This will usually take the form of a bad numpty-action related accident or just generally growing-up. Becoming "Not-A-Newbie" involves taking courses and gaining experience... The fact that they were on a (just a little bit up from) entry level course should have sounded so alarm bells in their head to the fact that they really should have read the book before turning up for the diving! See a not-a-numpty newbie would have read the book... twice! > > As an AOW, I feel comfortable > > diving to 30m, the diving aspect is no different from 18m except that it > > takes longer to get down and longer to get back. > > Except the surface is 12m further away when the brown stuff hits the air > conditioning. Indeed, it takes longer to get down and back up - that applies in a "poo vs blades" situation too! > >What I am very > > uncomfortable with is the fact that I would be pretty shafted if things > got > > more than a little technical... hence the link in the sig... > > Good descision. You'll get a lot out of it. Can't wait - everyone keeps telling me it is one of the best (if not THE best) courses they've done. The rest of them are the people who have volunteered as victims who are hell-bent on doing the proper "panicked-diver" thing and attempting to get masks off and pull drysuit seals... ...I'm sure it'll be fun! > Keith Anyhoo, hope all that helped! CAS -- PADI AOW? Get Rescue Training on UKRS Course #1 - http://divesite.calumscott.me.uk/ukrs/rescue_diver_2004 Temperature @ Stoney? Find it or share it @ http://stoneytemps.calumscott.me.uk/ > > "CAS" <calumscottTAKETHISBITOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message > > news:bq1tot$1sa4cl$1@ID- [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > for himself or any number of other numptyisms will either kill him or he > will get bored because no-one will dive with him and give up the sport. Thank you for defining that for me. > > Am I the only one who > > realises 2 fundamental facts here; [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > worry about are the "born-numpties" and those who enter a numpty phase and > never make it out the other side... But how could the original poster know whether they were newbies or numpties. (And why do I sound like I'm writing the script for a childrens TV show or a bit of a Harry Potter book?!!) With all respect to his experience, he was still particpating in an entry level course. Keith > > > > The numpties, through plenty of fault of their own and plenty of the > > > > instructors, are NOT now safe to dive to 30m. Unfortunately, being [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Thank you for defining that for me. Glad I could be of service! > > > Am I the only one who > > > realises 2 fundamental facts here; [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Keith I hope he made his judgement based on examining the "quality" of their diving with respect to their claimed experience, their attitude towards diving, safety and training. The single fact that they turned up to a course admitting that they hadn't done the independent study is as clear an indication of numptyism as you could wish for. A Numpty can quite easily spot Numptyish behaviour in another without realising that they are themselves a Numpty. Not that I'm calling the OP a Numpty, of course! A newbie, and I am still a relative newbie, can quite easily spot Numpties and other newbies quite readily. I suspect, however that none of this will make it to the FAQ... Hmmm. I suspect it will make it to my glossary pages though!! And yes, I'm sure, if JKRowling reads UKRS, that Numpties will feature in the next instalment. :-) CAS -- PADI AOW? Get Rescue Training on UKRS Course #1 - http://divesite.calumscott.me.uk/ukrs/rescue_diver_2004 Temperature @ Stoney? Find it or share it @ http://stoneytemps.calumscott.me.uk/ > > Could somebody please define "numptie" for me. Reading into the context I > > take it as being someone who is not very experienced. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > for himself or any number of other numptyisms will either kill him or he > will get bored because no-one will dive with him and give up the sport. or they were taught OW by the same instructor who taught this AOW course and they Knew no better. I was taught how to dive in my course then I had to learn how to dive >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > Could somebody please define "numptie" for me. Reading into the context > I [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > and they Knew no better. I was taught how to dive in my course then > I had to learn how to dive >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ah well that is a possibility, but you and I both know (and despite what might be portrayed in the PADI manuals) that there is more than one source of information on diving. There are signs of "inability to think for himself" in there wouldn't you say? CAS -- PADI AOW? Get Rescue Training on UKRS Course #1 - http://divesite.calumscott.me.uk/ukrs/rescue_diver_2004 Temperature @ Stoney? Find it or share it @ http://stoneytemps.calumscott.me.uk/ > No... AOW does not mean more training. It should, but for the first > day of my AOW, I think I gave more instruction to the other 2 on the The mian thing, find a good shop instructor thats everything to dive courses. On my AOW i thing we had 8 to 9 hours of classroom teaching. For the deep dive we hade abouve one hour with the main instructor, then one more hour with an PADI/IANTI instructor to give nitrox basics and howto alalyse gases and other things that could be good as we were doing that dive on nitrox. He had also prepared several different gas mixes for us to alalyse so we should getinto always checking our own gas, marking our own tank. I learned a loot on my six dives for the advance open water course. (Yes I was givven one dive with the instructor alone before the course so that I could make adations to drysuite and diveing in could water that I hadn't done for 10 years.) But I didn't have any clue about the differences before I took the courcem I was just lucky and did it during the right sesson. When they had litle les to do and a loot more time. / Anders  Signaturehttp://anders.arnholm.nu/ Keep on Balping >>>>What makes a Padi adventure diver? >>>> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > shouldn't be used until much later on in the PADI training system! Some > would argue that perhaps it shouldn't appear at all! ;-) To be honest, I'm not sure why AOW is a course at all. Sure, you learn a bit but I think you learn more by just doing a dozen dives after getting your OW card. AOW seems to me like an excuse to grab a bit of extra cash off divers between OW and Rescue (which I do think are worthwhile courses). > >>>>What makes a Padi adventure diver? > >>>> [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > your OW card. AOW seems to me like an excuse to grab a bit of extra cash > off divers between OW and Rescue (which I do think are worthwhile courses). Yes to a certain extent AOW can be assumed a money making thing BUT A new diver will often use it as their next step to do more diving or even their first dives after OW they probably arnt in a club (yet) etc and still would like to dive with a Inst or DM there AOW is 5 dives in different surroundings than they probably trained OW in with an experienced diver learning more skills that are usefull and practicing OW ones etc our shop courses is similer to most in UK and includes Full Kit hire and boat fees and air etc in the price if you did 5 dives and had no kit ( as a lot of new OW divers are) so had to hire the kit and pay boat fees etc its not to bad considering you could be on a boat buddied to some one you never met (shouldnt happen in a Club enviroment i know but thats not ness the norm) once you get to rescue course your expected to provide or Hire your own kit there are arguments both ways to doing AOW straight away or building up some OW dives first arguabley OW and AOW could be the starting level combined with RD being considered the norm for any more than the once a year with an instructor /Guide diver Duncan (PADI Diver) >What makes a Padi adventure diver? Cash ;-) Laz Signature~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A foolproof method for sculpting an Elephant: First, get a huge block of marble. Then, chip away everything that doesn't look like an Elephant. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Change "nospam" to "ntlworld" to reply. |
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