Scuba Forum / UK Scuba / November 2007
How much lead?
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SW - 15 Nov 2007 21:01 GMT Hi,
Is there a calculation I can do to work out how much weight I need on my belt in a dry suit in the UK? I used 6 kg with a 12l aluminium tank and a shorty 3mm wetsuit in Egypt, and it was ideal. How much should I need with the same bcd, regs, fins and hood, a 15l steel tank, and a trilaminate dry suit with thinsulate inner suit? Or is this something that can only be found by trial and error?
Regards, SW
Nigel Hewitt - 15 Nov 2007 21:50 GMT > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > steel tank, and a trilaminate dry suit with thinsulate inner suit? Or > is this something that can only be found by trial and error? There's no calculation as people and undersuits, the two determining factors, are so variable. I'm going to guess 12Kgs but I could be miles out. Have at least 15 available. Getting in a pool is ideal. Then add 3Kgs for the sea.
Sorry nigelH
SW - 15 Nov 2007 23:42 GMT > There's no calculation as people and undersuits, the two determining > factors, are so variable. I'm going to guess 12Kgs but I could be miles [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Sorry > nigelH In the pool should I be aiming for neutral bouyancy with 50 bar in my tank with no air in the bcd or suit? (My local pool has a deep end of 2.5m.)
SW
Nigel Hewitt - 16 Nov 2007 07:32 GMT >> There's no calculation as people and undersuits, the two determining >> factors, are so variable. I'm going to guess 12Kgs but I could be [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > tank with no air in the bcd or suit? (My local pool has a deep end of > 2.5m.) About that. Less than 50 bar is better as otherwize you can't actually breath the reserve. Also over inflate the suit and dump it out in the water as that is the version of 'empty' that you need to cope with. Imagine you are edging up into a safety stop with no shot line.
Getting the weight right makes bouyancy control a doddle and getting it wrong just makes it an annoying frustration.
nigelH
SW - 18 Nov 2007 15:08 GMT > About that. Less than 50 bar is better as otherwize you can't actually > breath the reserve. Also over inflate the suit and dump it out in the > water > as that is the version of 'empty' that you need to cope with. Imagine you > are edging up into a safety stop with no shot line. Thanks, I'll give that a try over the next few weeks.
> Getting the weight right makes bouyancy control a doddle and getting it > wrong just makes it an annoying frustration. Absolutely, I've now had experience of both, and I know which is best!
> nigelH Regards, SW
Paul S - 19 Nov 2007 09:49 GMT > "Nigel Hewitt" <nigelhew...@REMOVEhotmail.co.uk> wrote in message > > > Getting the weight right makes bouyancy control a doddle and getting it > > wrong just makes it an annoying frustration. > > Absolutely, I've now had experience of both, and I know which is best! The thing I've found to be equally important is where your weight is, and how it effects your angle in the water. I currently dive with a BCD that has weight pouches, and changing the distribution of weight between the pouches and the belt really helped.
Too much weight up high (i.e. in the BCD pouches) and I was top heavy, and in a dry suit that just meant I was always compensating for air filled feet.
Too much weight down low, and I was always finning up, and thought I needed more weight to keep me down.
I've now settled for (in fresh water) 6kg round my waist, and 4 kg in the jacket, and as long as I keep that 60-40 ratio (or close to it) I can add on extra weight for when I know I'll need it, or pick up items, holding them at navel height, and it's not a problem.
Ken - 15 Nov 2007 23:33 GMT > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > tank, and a trilaminate dry suit with thinsulate inner suit? Or is this > something that can only be found by trial and error? No-one can be sure. I have a small reminder which I take with me which I use to add or subtrack Kgs of lead according to whether I use a 3mm suit, a dry suit, am in fresh or sea water, whether I have a 3L pony or not etc etc. What applies to me does not apply to you, but if I were to use 6kg in the Red Sea with a 3mm shorty I would be using 10kg in a dry suit in the N Sea, allowing for a change from Alu cylinders abroad to steel cylinders in the UK. BTW don't get hung up about the cylinder size - broadly speaking a 15L cylinder displaces 3L more than a 12L and so gets 3kg more lift but it also weighs 3Kg more, cancelling this out. Of course this doesn't apply to ALL cylinder combinations!
You'll have to be prepared to add and subtract a bit when doing it for real. One calculation which does work is to weight yourself correctly in fresh water (pool?). Then add up all the weights of all your kit including your weight belt PLUS yourself, as when ready to jump in. Add 2.5% as extra lead for the sea.
Ken
SW - 16 Nov 2007 06:54 GMT > No-one can be sure. I have a small reminder which I take with me which I > use to add or subtrack Kgs of lead according to whether I use a 3mm suit, [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Ken Thanks Ken, that's useful.
SW
Blah - 16 Nov 2007 12:24 GMT > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Regards, > SW The PADI formula is:
5% of bodyweight for 3mm shorty 10% of your bodyweight plus 3-7kg (7-14) (With chunky undersuit) 10% of your bodyweight plus 1.5 - 3kg (With thin non foa undersuit)
+ saltwater conversion 100-125 lbs bodyweight add 2 kg 187-225 lbs add 3.2kg (prorata in between)
+ aluminium tank conversion add 1-2 kg (steel are heavier)
As we don't know your bodyweight I suggest you calculate the formula for shorty and aluminium and see how it compares to the 6 kg you used.
Then calculate using drysuit and steel and adjust by the percentage the first was wrong.
As a rule of thumb, we dress OW students in exactly what you will be wearing, and the 'average' perfect weight is around 7kg (14llbs). (The more rotund the student the more weight required usually).
Blah - 16 Nov 2007 12:33 GMT >> Hi, >> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > As we don't know your bodyweight I suggest you calculate the formula for > shorty and aluminium and see how it compares to the 6 kg you used. I meant to put an example in:
If you are around 60kg -
Abroad would have required 3 +2.5+1 = 6.5kg (.5kg over what you used).
Here you would need
3+3 +2 + 0 = 8kg
SW - 18 Nov 2007 15:09 GMT >> The PADI formula is: >> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > 3+3 +2 + 0 = 8kg Thanks, I'll give that a try over the next few weeks. I thought there would be a formula somewhere!
Regards, SW
someone - 17 Nov 2007 00:35 GMT > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > tank, and a trilaminate dry suit with thinsulate inner suit? Or is this > something that can only be found by trial and error? Sounds like trial and error to me. As a 50+ female, and looking through my log books, I see the following: Diving Stoney Cove (cold lake U.K.) in dry suit: 34 lbs (could hardly haul myself onto the raft afterwards). Caribbean, swim suit only: 12 lbs. Fiji, wet suit: 15-18 lbs. Costa Rica , wet suit 22 lbs. Maldives, wet suit: 18 lbs. Grand Cayman: wet suit, 15 lbs. Havana: wet suit, 14 lbs.
So you just gotta try it out and see.
someone
SW - 18 Nov 2007 15:06 GMT > Sounds like trial and error to me. As a 50+ female, and looking through > my log books, I see the following: Diving Stoney Cove (cold lake U.K.) [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > someone Yes, I'm sure it will come with experience.
When I say that 6kg was ideal for me in Egypt, I mean it was absolutely spot on, and it made a big difference to my dives there. I've never had my weights ideal in the UK (around 20 dives, in quarry and sea). So I know it'll be worth the effort to get it right, but I wanted to know of any more scientific ways of getting there. My instructors have maybe not noticed the problem, and I haven't been aware that it was such a problem, until I got it right, thanks to an instructor in Egypt.
Thanks, SW
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