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Scuba Forum / UK Scuba / March 2006Bringing up un-used shells
Hello, The Fire Brigade on the IoW used to run a course on how to open up and clean out the explosive from shells. However I cannot find any sensible reference to it and I am keen to get myself some shells (of the 4inch variety) can anyone point me in the direction of information regarding how this is best acheived without killing myself? Thanks, Nervous Diver > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > direction of information regarding how this is best acheived without > killing myself? Careful you don't get nominated for the Darwin Awards! Ken do you do a lot of solo diving ? >> Hello, >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Ken > do you do a lot of solo diving ? >>> The Fire Brigade on the IoW used to run a course on how to open up and >>> >>> clean out the explosive from shells. not sure any of the skippers I know would be very keen on your plans ? I did come up from a dive with a small shell about 6 inches in length but I knew the firing pin had a dent in it and the shell was empty. The plan for the dive was to look for fossilized sharks teeth, out of ten divers we found zero teeth. David > I did come up from a dive with a small shell about 6 inches in length but > I knew the firing pin had a dent in it and the shell was empty. > The plan for the dive was to look for fossilized sharks teeth, out of ten I ment firing cap sorry David > do you do a lot of solo diving ? Good point Taz, Yes I do dive solo some of the time, however my regular buddy is more mad for it than I am :-( > Careful you don't get nominated for the Darwin Awards! > > Ken Thanks Ken, - that's why I asked the question ;-) >>Hello, >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Careful you don't get nominated for the Darwin Awards! Funnily enough, many years ago I was trying the same thing with a bullet. I'd got the head and powder out the cartridge and was trying to scrape out the charge which sets the whole thing off. Took me about 24 hours to get my hearing back properly! The important lesson I learned was: don't f.ck about with ammunition.  Signature"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine." - Thomas Jefferson well nobodys answered the original question i see, someone must have the answers !! >>>Hello, >>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > my hearing back properly! The important lesson I learned was: don't f.ck > about with ammunition. > well nobodys answered the original question i see, someone must have the > answers !! Removing the explosive inside is not difficult, and hot water would remove it ... removing the detonator (primer cap) is a different ball game and there's no way of knowing if it is just dead, or very unstable ... a detonator on a large shell could easily take your hand off. The issue is you play with ammunition without a firearms license and you are in trouble. So advice is ... don't. >> well nobodys answered the original question i see, someone must have the >> answers !! [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >there's no way of knowing if it is just dead, or very unstable ... a >detonator on a large shell could easily take your hand off. Oh yes! >The issue is you play with ammunition without a firearms license and you are >in trouble. Firearms licenses are very specific, you are talking restricted weapons/ammunition here. But play with ammunition that you don't understand and you are inviting trouble. >So advice is ... don't. Unless you *really* know what you are doing I couldn't agree more. SignatureMick Whittingham 'and I will make it a felony to drink small beer.' William Shakespeare, Henry VI part 2. Mick Whittingham Wrote: > >> well nobodys answered the original question i see, someone must have > the [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > 'and I will make it a felony to drink small beer.' > William Shakespeare, Henry VI part 2. clamp the still fizzing live 60 year old ammunition into a vice nice and tight. now take a pointed punch and place point onto the flat end of the round in the very handy recess that's right in the middle of the base. point the other end of the live round at something or someone you really like, and with the biggest hammer you can find, hit the punch with all your might, and watch as you clear the contents and get your 50 pence worth of brass. hey-presto!!!!!!!!!!! of course you may need a new you and house and on and on and on, but as long as you've got your brass. leave it on the bottom.. 60 year old cordite thats been wet for that long does not like the air, why take the risk for 50 pence worth of 60 year old brass. Signaturehontihl the wisdom of youth, the energy of old age :eek: >Mick Whittingham Wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >long does not like the air, why take the risk for 50 pence worth of 60 >year old brass. Cordite is not the problem. It's the primer and the charge in the nose which is normally based on HE of some sort. SignatureMick Whittingham 'and I will make it a felony to drink small beer.' William Shakespeare, Henry VI part 2. > The issue is you play with ammunition without a firearms license and you are > in trouble. But if you have a firearms license everything will be fine? Cliff. Not necessarily ... but it's an opening certification - without it possessing ammunition is indefensible if caught, and a jail term. Having the license does not make you capable of knowing how to handle all munitions types, or the reverse can also be the case - I am explosive ordnance trained by HM forces ... but as I am no longer involved with the military I would need a Firearms license to hold any ammunition. > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > direction of information regarding how this is best acheived without killing > myself? Providing the shell has filled with water it is usually, but not always, safe to bash the tip off with a club hammer. Hit it on alternate sides to avoid distorting the brass too much. The sticks of soggy cordite can then be removed and dumped, leaving a nice casing to be polished at home.(The wet cordite will burn like a sparkler firework if you want to play, but skippers tend to get a liitle concerned if you do it on the boat.) On the other hand, if the contents have remained dry, or it just isn't your lucky day, it may be some consolation that you won't know anything about it when you hit the cap. So, do you feel lucky? Cliff. "Cliff Coggin" <clifford@ccoggin.freeserve.co.uk> wrote... > Providing the shell has filled with water it is usually, but not always, > safe to bash the tip off with a club hammer... !! I'm having a bit of trouble with the "not always" bit of that advice ;-) Keith L > "Cliff Coggin" <clifford@ccoggin.freeserve.co.uk> wrote... > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > !! I'm having a bit of trouble with the "not always" bit of that > advice ;-) It's quite clear. Most of the time you can do it quite safely. Sometimes, normally only once, you can't. HTH nigelH > > Hello, > > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Cliff. your talking about a loaded cartridge with the brass bit and the projectile intact like that in a rifle the bigger ones have explosive in the projectile as well so dont hit it to hard ;o) a shell is the projectile from a large calibre gun ie artillery and ships etc which is normally loaded with explosive with the fuse in the nose. lots of shells of Lulworth in the Fireing range ATB Duncan > Providing the shell has filled with water it is usually, but not always, > safe to bash the tip off with a club hammer. Hit it on alternate sides to [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Cliff. Thanks Cliff, an answer with some information in it is always appreciated. Given that the shells are at about 55m and have been there for about 50 years it seems likely that they will have flooded - ?? However that still leaves the contents of the projectile to consider - I will need to note the numbering on the base and reference that. Also the detonator is of some though small concern compared to the other payloads. Cheers > Given that the shells are at about 55m and have been there for about 50 > years it seems likely that they will have flooded - ?? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Also the detonator is of some though small concern compared to the other > payloads. If I asked where this was I hope I would get blanked. So can I ask how intact is the ship do you know its name, how was it sunk, war grave ect. don't post any thing that could send hundreds of more mad divers :-) as 55m is a long way up ? hope you have fun. :-) When the bomb squad arrived at my uncles the shell in his boot was still fizzing this was just equalizing from being at depth for so long. They took it away you know then blew it up on the beach. They did not seem so unhappy about it, this was a few years ago. The way world is now explosives might cause them more concern David > Given that the shells are at about 55m and have been there for about 50 > years it seems likely that they will have flooded - ?? probably. From that depth I'd not be surprised if they start fizzing as soon as they reach the surface. > However that still leaves the contents of the projectile to consider - I > will need to note the numbering on the base and reference that. > > Also the detonator is of some though small concern compared to the other > payloads. indeed. And don't forget to declare them to the ROW, and expect a call from the MOD police afterwards (eyes E101 detonator cap sitting on shelf nearby, and recalls conversation with the MOD man: "Is that detonator live, sir?" "No I defused it according to instructions from xyz in my club" "I don't think I really want to know about that, sir, thank you very much".) - Keith Can you not just warm them up with a blowtorch? This will have the dual effect of removing the charge and that pointy bit of metal at the end! Bit noisy, just a thought though. Or you could leave it there then we can all have a look at it? again, just a thought! A really good friend of mine, who shall remain unamed (Martin are you listening?) 'found' a load of these shells, and was taking them apart underwater, and removing the cordite, taking to his rib and then to shore. After several trips he notice (with his dive buddy) that his rib was turning a grey-white colour. whilst on the bottom looking for more shells they both heard the powerfull roar of a boat approaching then stopping. Deciding that maybe a trip to the surface was a 'GOOD IDEA' they surfaced, and saw the coast guard cutter hovering a few yards away, when the coast guard saw the shells they were dumping into the rib, it suddenly backed off FAST on the loud hailer, they asked if My Friend knew what he was doing, he told them it was Ok as he was in the demolition/salvage business (yea right!! knocking down old buildings - maybe) the coastgusrd then explained the slightest sparj caused by static on this bright sunny day would see their rib somewhere else in Porstmouth sound, that their RIB was now a time bomb waiting to go off. So I guess the advice is, if you have a very large insurance policy you want your nearest and dearest to collect, then go ahead. Oh the Coastgurad foled them back to shore a VERY good distance away, and had the firebrigade waiting to hose them and everything down, before they had them arrested. >Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Nervous Diver |
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