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Scuba Forum / UK Scuba / October 2005dive computer
Hi anybody out there know a good cheap new dive computer that's easy to use? I am a new diver and would appreciate any help. Thanks in advance Brendan > Hi anybody out there know a good cheap new dive computer that's easy to > use? > I am a new diver and would appreciate any help. > Thanks in advance > Brendan For the money, let alone the features, ruggedness, ease of use and wide acceptance among divers I would say the Suunto Vyper is hard to beat. Ken > For the money, let alone the features, ruggedness, ease of use and wide > acceptance among divers I would say the Suunto Vyper is hard to beat. If you like doing lots and lots of deco. Jason  SignatureSee http://www.scuba-addict.co.uk/ for UK diving reports and the UK Underwater Visibility Database. View the database or add your own report >> For the money, let alone the features, ruggedness, ease of use and wide >> acceptance among divers I would say the Suunto Vyper is hard to beat. > > If you like doing lots and lots of deco. 's got a gauge mode... :op CAS >>> For the money, let alone the features, ruggedness, ease of use and wide >>> acceptance among divers I would say the Suunto Vyper is hard to beat. >> >> If you like doing lots and lots of deco. >> > 's got a gauge mode... What makes me laugh is Suunto's advertising campaign. That whole hand signals thing. And they're yet to feature, If you think I'm doing those stops, you're joking, Bye. Which must be the most common hand signal a Vyper diver sees. Jason SignatureSee http://www.scuba-addict.co.uk/ for trip reports including the Costa Blanca, Gibraltar, Gran Canaria and the UK >> For the money, let alone the features, ruggedness, ease of use and wide >> acceptance among divers I would say the Suunto Vyper is hard to beat. > > If you like doing lots and lots of deco. You hit that one right on the head. I don't know if they're still available, but if they are, Genesis, Aeris and Oceanic all make versions of the same hockey puck sized/shape nitrox computer. They used to come in both one and two button versions. The two button version is a lot more user friendly than the one button models I have, but also noticeably more expensive. All of these models are, by design, the same size as the normal depth gauge module, allowing the customer to wear them on the wrist or insert them into a console they already have. They all do decompression calculations and handle nitrox up to 50%. Before anybody says it, I recommend a nitrox computer to anyone that is buying a computer. While some may not ever use nitrox, most will and the few extra dollars you spend up front are a lot less than what you'll spend to replace the computer later. Lee >>> For the money, let alone the features, ruggedness, ease of use and wide >>> acceptance among divers I would say the Suunto Vyper is hard to beat. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > few extra dollars you spend up front are a lot less than what you'll spend > to replace the computer later. Absolutely. I do appreciate the deco position - Suunto wants you to hang around longer than most folk. OTOH I don;t know about you guys, but unlike the characters invideo games I only have ONE life, and I'd rather play it safe. If that means doing a bit more deco, that's what I'll do. Except I don't do deco diving, so it's not really an issue personally. Ken > around longer than most folk. OTOH I don;t know about you guys, but unlike > the characters invideo games I only have ONE life, and I'd rather play it > safe. If that means doing a bit more deco, that's what I'll do. Except I > don't do deco diving, so it's not really an issue personally. So you don't do deco, probably don't know a lot about it, but do feel the need to condescend to those of us that do it regularly? And at times, it isn't a bit more. It's a hell of a lot more. Jason Signaturehttp://www.scuba-addict.co.uk/boatspaces/ for UK dive spaces >> around longer than most folk. OTOH I don;t know about you guys, but >> unlike [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > need to condescend to those of us that do it regularly? And at times, it > isn't a bit more. It's a hell of a lot more. Oh boy. Just because I don't do deco doesn't mean I don't now about it, it means I choose not to do it. What do you know what I know about and what I don't? Is it not the case that it is you who is condescending therefore? I did not pass judgement on your or anyone's abilities, knowledge, judgement on this issue, I merely made the statement that while I agree that Suunto models suggest longer deco times, it was a feature which by the nature of the diving I choose to take is of no relevance to me. I further expressed my willingness, if caught needeing deco for whatever reason, to hang on the line a little longer for the sake of my continued good health. Here's me thnking there was lots of room in the oceans for all of us! Ken > Oh boy. Just because I don't do deco doesn't mean I don't now about it, it > means I choose not to do it. What do you know what I know about and what I > don't? Is it not the case that it is you who is condescending therefore? I You're commenting on something you don't do. You're also make statements about only having ONE life and implying that not wishing to follow Suunto's algorithms is in some way unsafe and maybe even reckless. > did not pass judgement on your or anyone's abilities, knowledge, judgement > on this issue, I merely made the statement that while I agree that Suunto > models suggest longer deco times, it was a feature which by the nature of > the diving I choose to take is of no relevance to me. I further expressed > my willingness, if caught needeing deco for whatever reason, to hang on > the line a little longer for the sake of my continued good health. So if someone came out with a new computer tomorrow that have 3 times for deco than anything currently on the market, you'd happily do all those stops too would you? After all, it's safer. But then so is staying out of the water. And I'm not going to do that either. Jason Signaturehttp://www.scuba-addict.co.uk/ for Aussie diving reports including Cape Tribulation, Cairns, Airlie Beach, Exmouth and the HMAS Swan >> Oh boy. Just because I don't do deco doesn't mean I don't now about it, >> it [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > about only having ONE life and implying that not wishing to follow > Suunto's algorithms is in some way unsafe and maybe even reckless. No. I'm commenting I don't do deco through knowledge and choice, not through ignorance and fear. I manage the risk I take, and the balance of the risk with respect to my diving habits is that I prefer no-deco diving, the simpler equipment setups that are compatible with this form of diving, and the great enjoyment I get from it as it is, as I do it. I need no more buzz. > So if someone came out with a new computer tomorrow that have 3 times for > deco than anything currently on the market, you'd happily do all those > stops too would you? After all, it's safer. But then so is staying out of > the water. And I'm not going to do that either. Any time you want to stop diving is your business. How I choose to do my diving is mine. How come it's OK for ANY diver to call ANY dive to an end for ANY reason, but it appears not OK for this diver to call an end to his dive when he gets to the end, or very close to the end, of no-deco time? Ken > How come it's OK for ANY diver to call ANY dive to an end for ANY reason, > but it appears not OK for this diver to call an end to his dive when he > gets to the end, or very close to the end, of no-deco time? I don't care when you finish your dive, or indeed anything about your diving really. I object to the implication that following non-Suunto algorithm deco is somehow dangerous. Particularly as one of my computers uses the well respected Buhlmann algorithm. And it always clears way before my buddy's Suunto, especially on accelerated deco. I have no idea why a Vytec clears so slowly when using higher mixes. Jason SignatureSee http://www.scuba-addict.co.uk/ for trip reports including the Costa Blanca, Gibraltar, Gran Canaria and the UK >> How come it's OK for ANY diver to call ANY dive to an end for ANY reason, >> but it appears not OK for this diver to call an end to his dive when he >> gets to the end, or very close to the end, of no-deco time? > > I don't care when you finish your dive, or indeed anything about your > diving really. Suits me. > I object to the implication that following non-Suunto > algorithm deco is somehow dangerous. That was not any impression I was trying to impart. If it wasn't clearly stated, it wasn't intended. > Particularly as one of my computers > uses the well respected Buhlmann algorithm. And it always clears way > before my buddy's Suunto, especially on accelerated deco. I have no idea > why a Vytec clears so slowly when using higher mixes. Try asking Suunto. Ken >> Particularly as one of my computers >> uses the well respected Buhlmann algorithm. And it always clears way >> before my buddy's Suunto, especially on accelerated deco. I have no >> idea why a Vytec clears so slowly when using higher mixes. > > Try asking Suunto. But this is the whole question. Professor Bühlmann's work at Zurich University has been published and chewed over for years. It is a standard by which others are judged. I am not aware of any published, pier reviewed, material from Suunto. Bühlmann has nothing to prove. Suunto, in taking lots longer, is the problem. There is a level of conservatism which is beyond reason. When the risk involved in staying in the water is greater than the risk of ascending. One of the concerns of the Suunto is that it clicks in long deco rather suddenly and compromises the divers gas reserves. My preference is a computer with zero conservatism as it is easy to do longer stops than required but on the day you have a problem you want shortest time to surface. nigelH >>> before my buddy's Suunto, especially on accelerated deco. I have no >>> idea why a Vytec clears so slowly when using higher mixes. >> >> Try asking Suunto. > > But this is the whole question. Indeed. Swap to something richer than about 75% and your stops more or less halve on Buhlmann. They also do on my Cochran, which isn't Buhlmann based, and they do on my Apeks Quantum which is. They don't on the Vytec. I don't know why. I'd be interested if someone has access to proper RGBM rather than the fudged version that Suunto use if they could run some profiles through that. > My preference is a computer with zero conservatism as it is easy to do > longer stops than required but on the day you have a problem you want > shortest time to surface. Agreed. I can always add in deep stops. I can add in 5 mins from 6m to the surface. I also know when it's rough and shallow stops are a bad idea. I know when there's been a current and I was knackered. Coz I've got a brain in my head, and some stupid computer doesn't. And doing stops because Suunto say so is banal. Jason SignatureSee http://www.scuba-addict.co.uk/ for Caribbean trip reports to Aruba, Cuba, Grand Bahama, Barbados, St Lucia and Mexico >>> Particularly as one of my computers >>> uses the well respected Buhlmann algorithm. And it always clears way [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > But this is the whole question. Quite! Only they seem to know the answer (assuming they do) but appear reluctant to share it with others. > Professor Bühlmann's work at Zurich University has been > published and chewed over for years. It is a standard by > which others are judged. I am not aware of any published, > pier (nice typo, given the circumstances!) > reviewed, material from Suunto. Bühlmann has nothing > to prove. Suunto, in taking lots longer, is the problem. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > in long deco rather suddenly and compromises the divers gas > reserves. Yes. However, if you are using a guide (Suunto model) which suggests you stay in the water longer and you know it, the extra gas requirement should have been planned for. You should not, then, be running out of gas becuase of your (possibly overstated) deco requirements. > My preference is a computer with zero conservatism as it is > easy to do longer stops than required but on the day you have > a problem you want shortest time to surface. Personally I'd rather have a margin for error built in - I'd rather have a bit of conservatism in other words. As to surfacing in the shortest possible time and doing longer stops than required, that's another issue. AFAIK (and being a tad facetious) you don't HAVE to ascend as soon as your computer's deco requirements are met, nor do you HAVE to stay down just 'cos your computer says so. Ken > There is a level of conservatism which is beyond reason. When > the risk involved in staying in the water is greater than the risk > of ascending. One of the concerns of the Suunto is that it clicks > in long deco rather suddenly and compromises the divers gas > reserves. Right to the point. This behaviour nearly led to an accident. We were diving the HMS Stubborn, bottom depth 58m. Near the end of our scheduled bottom time, a diver signaled problems and gave signs he wanted to go up. The remaining 2 of us decded they we should not follow his rapid ascent given our deco obligation of about 25-30 minutes, and our valiant surface support. His ascent was stopped by another diver at 24m at the anchor chain who realized his worried state, and turned into a controlled one. Later he explained the reason for his sudden concern, which turned out to be a sudden obligation updrift on his Suunto from some minutes to more than 45. His "fault" was 2-fold: a)He attributed to much of relevance to the computer b) he thought he would be short on gas following the computer c) he did not alert us of the actual cuase of his concern ( I might have shown him my Aladin ( VR3 froze on this dive) Matthias > My preference is a computer with zero conservatism as it is > easy to do longer stops than required but on the day you have > a problem you want shortest time to surface. > > nigelH > > There is a level of conservatism which is beyond reason. When > > the risk involved in staying in the water is greater than the risk [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Matthias Thank you for this interesting example. There are some very important points. 1) > ( VR3 froze on this dive) related to this problem and 2) > a sudden obligation updrift on his Suunto > from some minutes to more than 45. 3) Some divers are much too reliant on computers on their wrists and forget to use the one between their ears and of course b) and c) <relevant to my dives and my choices> to me it is not clear that there are any `mix/deep dive` computers that are as reliable as the ones designed for recreational diving. FWIW & AFIK on the VR3 if you miss or shorten a stop it sulks and tells you to go to tables. So far on all my deep dives I have used tables and will continue to do so. I only use computers as bottom timers and presure gages and will continue to do so for now. Though I would really like a good computer for all my dives. Deep/mix dives are on tables and deviations are planned for. Rec dives are on computers. </relevant to my dives and my choices> >replace spamblock with my family name to e-mail me Hello, >>This behaviour nearly led to an accident. We were diving the >> HMS Stubborn, bottom depth 58m. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > related to this problem and Well the freezing did not seem to be related to this dive, but to fate, Murphy, anything. After going 3 times through the unplugging battery, reinstall ceremony and some rain dancing round it, it worked again. With the same battery. Needless to say, that on this same dive my Aladin started working only at 3 minutes into the dive. Saved some deco time ;-) > 2) >>a sudden obligation updrift on his Suunto >>from some minutes to more than 45. This Wienke fudge factors are just crazy. > 3) > > Some divers are much too reliant on computers on their wrists and forget > to use the one between their ears Exactly. While I regard this dive as a rec dive, when done with air, it still qualifies for the same characteristics as any rec or technical dive. Know your depth and time, and have a clear plan of your decompression schedule in advance. It helps writing it down to a slate, too.... > and of course b) and c) > > <relevant to my dives and my choices> > > to me it is not clear that there are any `mix/deep dive` computers that > are as reliable as the ones designed for recreational diving. While it seems, at the same time, that some designs which were aimed at some nebulous mix of diving, just fail to work in a sensible way, or quit working altogether from task overload. > FWIW & AFIK on the VR3 if you miss or shorten a stop it sulks and tells > you to go to tables. Yes. Still it keeps on doing sensible calculations. The deep stops are just a bit too long, and to far spaced for deeper dives. Too long especially when you don't switch gasses. > So far on all my deep dives I have used tables and will continue to do > so. I only use computers as bottom timers and presure gages and will [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Deep/mix dives are on tables and deviations are planned for. Rec dives > are on computers. I extend this favor to rec dives as well. For a given bottle size you can just do three standard decompressions on any dives, say, beyond 30m, nearly regardless of time and depth. F.I. for a 15l bottle, 30" at 30/22/15m, 1' at 12m, 2' at 9m, 4' at 6, 6-12' at 3m. Matthias Hi Matthias, nice to meet you here again... :-) > F.I. for a 15l bottle, 30" at 30/22/15m, 1' at 12m, 2' at > 9m, 4' at 6, 6-12' at 3m. Let's say 40m/25': According to Deco 2000: 1/4/8/16' DDPlan gives following segtimes with GF 10/90% starting at 24m: 2/1/1/1/2/3/6/11' (on air, ~2100l gas consumption). Deepest effective stop is 27m. This gives ascent & deco of ~28' against 29' on Deco 2000. Would you really do this according to your suggestion (~20')? SignatureRegards Oliver Hi Oliver, > Hi Matthias, > > nice to meet you here again... :-) Pleasure returned ;-) >>F.I. for a 15l bottle, 30" at 30/22/15m, 1' at 12m, 2' at >>9m, 4' at 6, 6-12' at 3m. > > Let's say 40m/25': > > According to Deco 2000: 1/4/8/16' Not close. From Deco 92/2: 40m> read 42m, 25min bottom time gives waht you suggest, but Gas volume of 3710l. So, impossible with a 15l bottle. Remember I did not care to give a bottom time, but condensed what has proven right from my experience, from the kind of diving I do. That means returning form depth with a pressure of 120-130 bars, with a starting pressure of 200 bars. This leaves me a) with a feasable decompression obligation, b) with some headroom for emergencies. The most meaningful tool here is not the computer, but the pressure gauge. > DDPlan gives following segtimes with GF 10/90% starting at 24m: > 2/1/1/1/2/3/6/11' (on air, ~2100l gas consumption). Deepest effective > stop is 27m. This gives ascent & deco of ~28' against 29' on Deco 2000. > > Would you really do this according to your suggestion (~20')? Anytime. A bit more in warm water. In warm water with a 15l bottle, you're out of the water after one hour, almost regardless of depth, that is, for any depth below 30m... But to be fair, I must confess, that with a 15l bottle I have not dived anything shallower than 32 m. Matthias Hi Ken, > No. I'm commenting I don't do deco through knowledge and choice, not through > ignorance and fear. I manage the risk I take, and the balance of the risk > with respect to my diving habits is that I prefer no-deco diving, the > simpler equipment setups that are compatible with this form of diving, and > the great enjoyment I get from it as it is, as I do it. I need no more buzz. I own the Cobra. It has the same deco model as the Vyper (can't proof that, but I was told). I can tell you, that although deco times are quite long I got a skin rush following the instructions (the manual btw tells it should *not* be used for deco diving) even during so called 'no-deco' dives. Did you know that every dive deeper than about 10m is a deco dive? The Vyper doesn't tell you anything about a diving profile. I switched to Deco 2000 (table) and since then my profiles changed significantly and the most important thing for me: it works! I havn't got troubles anymore since then. I mainly use my Cobra as bottom timer now. That's the best job it can do for me. ;-) SignatureRegards Oliver > Did you know that every dive deeper than about 10m is > a deco dive? FWIW that should be "every dive is a deco dive" >replace spamblock with my family name to e-mail me >> Did you know that every dive deeper than about 10m is >> a deco dive? > > FWIW that should be "every dive is a deco dive" Ack. I also found some evidence of deco problems after very long dives between 6m and 7m. I just meant as a rule of thumb not literally... ;-) SignatureRegards Oliver > No. I'm commenting I don't do deco through knowledge and choice, not through > ignorance and fear. Do you not do PADI safety stops then? That's deco. They might claim otherwise for legal reasons, but that's what it is. - Keith >> No. I'm commenting I don't do deco through knowledge and choice, not >> through ignorance and fear. > > Do you not do PADI safety stops then? That's deco. They might > claim otherwise for legal reasons, but that's what it is. Of course it is and of course I do, usually. Thought to be honest, like many folk, during so many dives I drift upward so slowly that I pass through the "safety stop" without stopping and yet have done a dive according to the letter of that law - even though the dreaded reverse profile may have crept in. But that's another heated debate which we've done before. Ken > > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > stops too would you? After all, it's safer. But then so is staying out of > the water. And I'm not going to do that either. Here's my understanding of what the computers are doing. The bends risk basically falls on a normal distribution (for those who did probability/statistics at school). The computer isn't telling you how to dive so you don't get bent - it's telling you how to dive so your probability of getting bent is way down the tail end of the probability curve. It doesn't matter how much deco you do, you are always going to have some risk of getting bent, the question is what level of risk are you (or the computer manufacturers) prepared to accept as safe (I've heard 1 in 30,000 quoted as the level from accident analysis). It's simply that some models leave you further down the tail end of the probability curve than others. The question seems to be not which model prevents you getting bent, but do you want a model with a 1:30,000 chance or do you want the extra deco that gives you a 1:60,000 chance? Signature"If a man empties his purse into his head, no man can take it away from him. An investment in Knowledge always pays the best Interest." - Benjamin Franklin > It doesn't matter how much deco you do, you are always going to have > some risk of getting bent, the question is what level of risk are you [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > getting bent, but do you want a model with a 1:30,000 chance or do you > want the extra deco that gives you a 1:60,000 chance? In my opinion you can't tell, because it even may depend on your personal condition, which varies from day to day. You can do a dive on one day without any problems and get bent another day with exactly the same dive profile. No computer will help deciding what to do but the one between your ears. There are so many reasons which are not calculated within a computer or even are not fully understood by scientists that it's always a good practice "to keep on the safe side". I personally don't mind to do some more minutes deco or deep stops even on so called no-deco dives, but there could be situations where to keep in water is more dangerous than ascending. It depends on the situation. SignatureRegards Oliver > Here's my understanding of what the computers are doing. The bends risk > basically falls on a normal distribution (for those who did [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > you want a model with a 1:30,000 chance or do you want the extra deco that > gives you a 1:60,000 chance? Yes. I don't know where on the Gaussian curve these various models and manufacturers place you. While each diver is an individual and each dive is specific to itself, there are more things in common betwwen divers and dive profiles than there are differences between them. The tendency to get bent on a particualr dive probably fits aGaussian curve given that the physiological variables which influence an individual's propoensity to get are also normally distributed. The "normal range" for many physilogical variables is set at +/- 2SD from the mean, so that the normal range encompasses 95-97% of the population. Beyond this, at one end are the folk who never get bent whatever, and these are of no concern. Its the other folk at the "easily bent" end of the spectrum that really need looking after. Using the +/- 2SD model, that would mean that around 2% - 1 in 50 divers - might get bent even if they followed the computer's advice. As the incidence of bends is much lower than this on deco dives, one assumes the computer manufacturers are setting the limits of their computers beyond +/- 2SD - but are they setting it at +/- 3, 4, 5, n SD? Ken > around longer than most folk. OTOH I don;t know about you guys, but unlike > the characters invideo games I only have ONE life, and I'd rather play it > safe. If that means doing a bit more deco, that's what I'll do. Except I The trouble with this theory is that sometimes staying in the water is more dangerous than getting out. Thinking particularly of the situation where divers are drifting under a buoy in a 2-knot current and the weather conditions are worsening. As a Coxwain in that situation, I'd much rather have the divers up when they can come up than have them below the surface doing un-necessary stops. On the other hand, I love to dive with Suunto divers. My Cochrane set to 0 conservatism is guaranteed to get me out of the water so far ahead of the Suunto divers that I get to eat their lunch! -- Pete >> around longer than most folk. OTOH I don;t know about you guys, but >> unlike [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I'd much rather have the divers up when they can come up than > have them below the surface doing un-necessary stops. Each circumstance has its particualr risk v benefit analysis. You mention a valid, but v particualr situation. In other circumstances, it may be better for the divers to stay in water longer. > On the other hand, I love to dive with Suunto divers. My > Cochrane set to 0 conservatism is guaranteed to get me > out of the water so far ahead of the Suunto divers that I > get to eat their lunch! Sure you can. But there's more to it than that. On the Thistlegorm recently, thanks to low SAC and Nitrox my son and I were the first under and last up on both dives, never going into deco. The trip back was on very lumpy water so many could not manage their babaganouche and spicy chicken thighs, so we ate theirs instead. :)) Ken >> For the money, let alone the features, ruggedness, ease of use and wide >> acceptance among divers I would say the Suunto Vyper is hard to beat. > > If you like doing lots and lots of deco. > > Jason I'd rather do lots of deco than suffer brain or spinal-cord damage. Adam >>>For the money, let alone the features, ruggedness, ease of use and wide >>>acceptance among divers I would say the Suunto Vyper is hard to beat. >> >>If you like doing lots and lots of deco. >> >>Jason > I'd rather do lots of deco than suffer brain or spinal-cord damage. How do you know you don't have already? Matthias >>>>For the money, let alone the features, ruggedness, ease of use and wide >>>>acceptance among divers I would say the Suunto Vyper is hard to beat. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Matthias I probably do, but not from diving. Adam > Hi anybody out there know a good cheap new dive computer that's easy to use? > I am a new diver and would appreciate any help. > Thanks in advance > Brendan You can pick up the Mares M1 fairly cheap. Excellent computer in my opinion and also has nitrox so you don't have to upgrade later. SignatureThe law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread. - Anatole France. >Hi anybody out there know a good cheap new dive computer that's easy to use? >I am a new diver and would appreciate any help. >Thanks in advance >Brendan Personally I am a fan of the aladin computers, big easy to read numbers and no sill amount of stops like the sunto. Everyones opinion will differ, see if you can borrow a couple and try them to see which you like. Danny The box said windows 98 or better, so I installed Linux Header is false, correct is Danny at danshome dot org QUOTE=Brendan Kenneally]Hi anybody out there know a good cheap new dive computer that's easy to use? I am a new diver and would appreciate any help. Thanks in advance Brendan Hi Brendan, I read this thread and it moved me to contribute... A computer is exactly that, a PCB, components, software, a casing, a battery and a design team's interpretation of a marketing team's understanding of what their target market segment (and there are many of them) want. The fact is that they all have shortcomings one way or another. FYI - The first computer I bought was a Suunto Cobra which is a gas integrated console version of the Vyper. For no-stop single gas nitrox diving it served me very well for my first 50 dives. It is true that Suunto's are pretty conservative and I was often the first to 'call time' but thats no bad thing when you are gaining experience and making mistakes (and you will make mistakes - sooner or later). These days I use different kit as I have different needs so the key message in this rant of a post is that what is right for you now may not be right for you in future if you develop your skills and abilities beyond beginner level, and ultimately into the technical realm. IMHO you should get a single gas nitrox unit from the outset as they will also handle air (which is 21% nitrox). You could do a lot worse than buying a Suunto or an Uwatec computer. Both will meet your needs right now. I suggest that you stay away from the 'plastic fantastic', fashion statement equipment manufacturers such as Mares. Also do not be seduced by the lure of cylinder pressure radio transmitters that link to a wrist mounted unit. This stuff is expensive, fallible, and by the manufacturers own admissions, requires an SPG back up anyway. If in doubt, apply the KISS principle. Regards, John Signaturebrandwoodj > QUOTE=Brendan Kenneally]Hi anybody out > there know a good cheap new dive computer that's easy to use? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I suggest that you stay away from the 'plastic fantastic', fashion > statement equipment manufacturers such as Mares. Other than the fact you don't like the design, do you have any real complaints about the Mares computer? I'd say the Mares M1 is a far better design than many of the other computers. What do you dive when your computer is in the shop having the batteries changed? Takes me 20 seconds to change the M1 batteries myself. Scratched up the plastic on your computer yet? My M1 has a hardened glass screen - not a single mark on it in 2 years of diving. Problems reading your computer in the dark? With the M1 I just leave the backlight on permanently - after all, the batteries are so easy to change who care how fast they run down. Oh, and it's 70 euros cheaper than Suunto's entry level computer. > Also do not be seduced > by the lure of cylinder pressure radio transmitters that link to a wrist [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Regards, > John Signature"If a man empties his purse into his head, no man can take it away from him. An investment in Knowledge always pays the best Interest." - Benjamin Franklin > > QUOTE=Brendan Kenneally]Hi anybody out > > there know a good cheap new dive computer that's easy to use? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Other than the fact you don't like the design, do you have any real > complaints about the Mares computer? I know one diver who has had 3 M 1s fail at about the 75 dive mark the first 2 were replaced under the guarantee the 3rd trashed as he did not want a 4th problem YMMV >replace spamblock with my family name to e-mail me >>>QUOTE=Brendan Kenneally]Hi anybody out >>>there know a good cheap new dive computer that's easy to use? [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > YMMV Well, I've currently done about 65 dives with mine. I'll post in another couple of months how its holding up. Signature"If a man empties his purse into his head, no man can take it away from him. An investment in Knowledge always pays the best Interest." - Benjamin Franklin >Hi anybody out there know a good cheap new dive computer that's easy to use? >I am a new diver and would appreciate any help. >Thanks in advance >Brendan Apeks Quantum. Does air, nitrox and another richer nitrox mix for accelerated deco (if you ever get that far). So everything up to trimix level. If you can get to Dive 2005 at the NEC they were being flogged for £149 last year. Brendan: Forget all the show-offs. You're a new diver, probably recreational, maybe still hiring some kit. Go for a Uwatec Aladin - mine's easy to use, reliable and the battery has lasted years & years. TJ Brendan Kenneally wrote On 09/13/05 23:02,: > Hi anybody out there know a good cheap new dive computer that's easy to use? > I am a new diver and would appreciate any help. > Thanks in advance > Brendan > Brendan: Forget all the show-offs. > You're a new diver, probably recreational, maybe still hiring some kit. Go > for a Uwatec Aladin - mine's easy to use, reliable and the battery has > lasted years & years. The battery will get to about 55% and stop working. Mine did. And then it's expensive to send off. Can't imagine buying a computer with non user-replaceable batteries these days. Jason SignatureSee http://www.scuba-addict.co.uk/ for Caribbean trip reports including Aruba, Cuba, Grand Bahama, Barbados, St Lucia and Mexico |
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