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Scuba Forum / UK Scuba / March 2005

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Strobe Otterbox Question for Ken

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Marshall Karp - 28 Mar 2005 15:14 GMT
Hi Ken,

So let me get this straight.

You put the Sunpak Remote Lite II in the Otterbox
You dive to 50 feet
You hold your camera in one hand
You hold the Sunpak Otterbox over your subject, with the other hand
When you shoot the camera, the flash activates the remote flash Sunpak Unit?

Or, do you have the otterbox attached to a camera mounting somehow?

Or, do you have your dive buddy hold the flash Sunpak Unit and you shoot the
picture.

Please tell me more of what you had in mind.

Also, I do have a video housing for my digital camera.  Any thoughts on how
to make a strobe work inside of an otterbox?  The on-off would have to be
controlled someway to save battery power.

Thank you.

Marshall

"Marshall Karp" <marshallkarp@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:RsF0e.13264$wL6.10354@trnddc03...
> Since Otter Boxes are rated to 100 feet, couldn't one get a clear one,
> turn
> your digital video camera on, put it inside, and use it as a reliable, but
> inexpensive, underwater housing?
Ken - 28 Mar 2005 16:12 GMT
> Hi Ken,
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> When you shoot the camera, the flash activates the remote flash Sunpak
> Unit?

Basically, yes. The Remote Lite II, like the Epoque, Sea&Sea, Inon etc
flashguns have a built-in slave trigger which will fire the flashgun when
another flashgun, not conected to it physically, is detected as having gone
off. The flash of light from your digital camera's built-in flashgun may not
be sufficient to illuminate the subject, but it should be sufficient to
trigger an external flashgun in this manner. This method of flashgun trigger
is well known in underwater photography circles, but is only now catching on
for land photography. Of course land photography does not have the
constraints of making everything work when bathed in an electrical conductor
(sea water) nor are you constrained in physical size (having to fit
everything into a housing). As more digital cameras are beibng released onto
the market with neither a hotshoe nor a cord connection for synchronising
with an extrernal flsdhgun (should one be desired) this light activated
triggering of a slave flashgun is gaining popularity. Sunpak and Vivitar
make smal, economical flash units which, like land cameras, may work well
when placed in suitable underwater housings. I stress that I have yet to try
this, but cannot see why it should not work.

> Or, do you have the otterbox attached to a camera mounting somehow?

No reason why you can't mount a flashgun housing onto a camera bracket, in
the same way as you would on land.

> Or, do you have your dive buddy hold the flash Sunpak Unit and you shoot
> the
> picture.

Also possible

> Please tell me more of what you had in mind.

Precisely what you have understood it to be!

> Also, I do have a video housing for my digital camera.  Any thoughts on
> how
> to make a strobe work inside of an otterbox?  The on-off would have to be
> controlled someway to save battery power.

If you have very powerful lights you may deform the plastic with disastrous
consequences. There are of course purpose-made underwater lights for video
cameras, but the price is astronomical. As to the switching on and off, that
will require some engineering well beyond my capabilities. My idea for a
land flashgun inside a transparent waterproof box was to have nothing to
control. I would switch the flashgun on before closing the lid, and only
switch it off at the end of the dive once ashore / aboard. Of course land
flashguns do not consume much power when left on and not flashing, and there
may be room (depending on the box chosen of course) to mount (for example)
three pairs of AA cells to power the flashgun with, rather than the one pair
it normally may hold. After all, there may be spare room in the box and
changing batteries half-way through a dive is not an option! Rechargeables
are inexpensive enough and can be rendered fully charged before the next
day's diving.

Now if you're placing a video camera inside an otterbox, another poster has
alluded to the optically imperfect nature of the box material. For a
flashgun or other light this would not be an issue. It would be as if using
a diffuser at all times, that's all.

These land flashguns from Sunpak (Remote Lite II) and Vivitar (DF120) sell
in the UK for around ?45 (E65, $85) and ?30 (E44, $57) respectively.
Chucking them in a box which costs ?20 (E29, $38) seems a better deal than
the least expensive of underwater flashguns I've come across at around ?250
(E362, $475). You also get some degree of auto flash exposure to boot.

Remember not to take my word as gospel - I have merely used postings here to
sound out ideas I've had. Do not assume my ideas are bound to work, I assure
you they often don't! If you choose to embark on any projects based on these
thoughts, the liability is yours. In this litigation conscious age such
statements appear necessary, unfortuantely.

Ken
Marshall Karp - 28 Mar 2005 21:12 GMT
Thanks Ken, appreciate your thoughts.  I understand that these are only your
theories and opinions.

Marshall

>> Hi Ken,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 80 lines]
>
> Ken
Marshall Karp - 28 Mar 2005 22:05 GMT
I did no see a Vivatar DF 120 on their website, but I saw a DF 200.  Is that
the same?

Thank you.

>> Hi Ken,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 80 lines]
>
> Ken
Ken - 28 Mar 2005 22:15 GMT
>I did no see a Vivatar DF 120 on their website, but I saw a DF 200.  Is
>that the same?

No. The DF200 has a swivel/bounce head and takes 4 x AA cells with a guide
no of 20 (metres) with ISO 100, in air. It can mount on a camera / bracket
using a hotshoe and CAN synchronise through it though it has a built in
slave.

The DF120 has a fixed head and is made with the new digicompacts in mind. It
has no hotshoe or cable sync, and can only synchronise by means of light.
Its guide no is 12 (metres, air, ISO 100) and comes supplied with a swivel /
tilt mount and a bracket so it can be set next to the camera with which it
synchronises. I came across it by chance on Vivitar's Canadian website, and
an example of it on sale within the UK can be found here;

http://www.7dayshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=86474

At 55 x 45 26 mm it's diminutive and is powered by a couple of AAA cells. It
should fit into the smallest of otterboxes and perhaps leave space for
mounting AA cells in the spare space in the box as a power pack external to
the flashgun but within the box, four AA cells holding far more charge than
a couple of AAAs. I fancy buying one of these to try. If it doesn't work
out, I still have a neat tiny flash that will fit into the same shirt pocket
as my little Ixus (which BTW is not what I take scuba diving).

Ken
Pete S. - 29 Mar 2005 09:06 GMT
>Basically, yes. The Remote Lite II, like the Epoque, Sea&Sea, Inon etc
>flashguns have a built-in slave trigger which will fire the flashgun when
>another flashgun, not conected to it physically, is detected as having gone
>off. The flash of light from your digital camera's built-in flashgun may not
>be sufficient to illuminate the subject, but it should be sufficient to
>trigger an external flashgun in this manner.

Should be just pefect for producing pictures of backscatter.

Pete S.
ChristianG - 31 Mar 2005 10:30 GMT
Now if you're placing a video camera inside an otterbox, another poster
has
alluded to the optically imperfect nature of the box material. For a
flashgun or other light this would not be an issue. It would be as if
using
a diffuser at all times, that's all.

I'll assume I'm that other poster. :)

The problem with diffusion is that if you want the maximum amount of
light concentrated on the subject, why, you don't get it. Nor do you
have any method to get it, you're permanently on "diffuse" power. I
often carry a diffuser to obtain that effect, especially on macro
stuff, but I am also using a (significantly) more powerful strobe,
plural more often than not - I can always switch one off,  than the one
in your box.

I really, Ken, don't want to sound that negative but I simply can't see
any light at the end of that particular tunnel.

Cheers,

Christian
Ken - 31 Mar 2005 14:26 GMT
> Now if you're placing a video camera inside an otterbox, another poster
> has
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> I really, Ken, don't want to sound that negative but I simply can't see
> any light at the end of that particular tunnel.

Fine. It depends on the reasons you have for trying this out. Are you the
sort of person who hates flying but enjoys the destination? I enjoy the
whole thing - the airport check-in, the almost inedible food, the hassle at
the baggage collection - for me, the getting there is as much part of the
fun as being there. In fact, travelling is so good that I'd gladly embark on
a round the world trip where I only visit airports and take a week to get
back to where I started.

For me, the messing about with flashguns, the trial and error, the lessons I
learn along the way are in many ways more valueable than the correct
illumination of the subject. If that is all I wanted, I'd have gone out and
bought an off-the-shelf solution already. BUT I would not have learnt what I
have learnt along the way already, let alone what I have yet to learn along
the way - so far mostly about LED characteristics.

OTOH have you considered that if my flashgun-in-a-box works albeit with
limitations, it will perhaps work out so cheaply that I can actually use TWO
such guns (which will increase the chances of photographic success), both
together for less than half the cost of a single commercially available
'gun?

I await the postman's delivery of my little Vivitar with eager anticipation.

Ken
 
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