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Scuba Forum / UK Scuba / December 2004Faulty kit or faulty website info? Portland Oceaneering backplate nuts.
I would like to know what others who have bought BACKPLATE NUTS from Portland Oceaneering have found. My situation is that the website and answers to e-mail differ and I have found it dificult to get a follow up to questions. Also I am off to Porta Galera in a few days time for 3 weeks and would like to know Pictures are on line at <http://meekings.net/diving/portlandoceaneering/index.html> BACKPLATE NUTS - No Spanner required. Designed to complement Portland Oceaneering's backplate range, these new and innovative nuts need no spanner. Beautifully engineered backplate nuts can be tightened by hand and unlike wing nuts they are very low-profile so won't dig in. Constructed from 316 marine grade stainless steel they have an in-built friction washer and are designed to fit an M8 thread. And from an e-mail dated Sat, 11 Dec. 2004 10:13:44 The nylon insert on the 2nd nut does not appear to be threaded. This is in fact correct. The purpose of the insert is to provided a barrier between the stainless part of the nut and your backplate to prevent scratches. Nut number one has slightly more nylon and a thread has been cut by screwing it onto an M8 bolt. This is not how the nut was designed but does not cause any problems. Humm which is correct a barrier or an in-built friction washer? The nuts are indeed well engineered (at least the SS part) and very low-profile. Unfortunately although the back plate is good and after placing an order the delivery was quick response to mail has been poor with about 8 e-mails unanswered after at least 4 working days and sometimes much longer. >replace spamblock with my family name to e-mail me I admit that the poor response to your emails is not very good but I am not sure I totally understand your problem. The nuts in the photo seem very well made and engineered. They look like they will do the job as described. They are designed to screw onto your back plate and then tighten down onto the nylon inserts which will lock them in-place until removed. Any excess that is on the inside of the nut, as stated in their response is not intentional. It gives extra locking performance but is only a by-product to its original job. Why is that not satisfactory as an answer to your question? taz. > I admit that the poor response to your emails is not very > good but I am not sure I totally understand your problem. > The nuts in the photo seem very well made and engineered. That is as I said and I agree with that on the SS parts. I really like the backplate design as well. > They look like they will do the job as described. They are > designed to screw onto your back plate and then tighten down > onto the nylon inserts which will lock them in-place until removed. One will, the one in the top set of pics. the other looks as if it will not as the nylon insert can not touch the thread of the 8mm stud or bolt. > Any excess that is on the inside of the nut, as stated in their > response is not intentional. It gives extra locking performance but > is only a by-product to its original job. If the intention is to act as a locking nut there is no excess on either mut there is not enough on the one in the bottom set of pics bottom > Why is that not satisfactory > as an answer to your question? Do you have these nuts? If not then your answer is just speculation. And may be the pic. are not clear enough for acurate speculation. Right now I am also not clear on the point as I only use rented twinsets and do not dive here so I have to wait until Tuesday or Wednesday and will be out of internet contact > taz. >replace spamblock with my family name to e-mail me If the nylon had been a lock nut type it would have not been easy to tighten down and may have required the use of a spanner, you have a nice spacer and the nylon helps the nut remain in place. do they work ? if so use them and stop nit picking and have some fun. >I would like to know what others who have bought BACKPLATE NUTS from > Portland Oceaneering have found. [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > >>replace spamblock with my family name to e-mail me > If the nylon had been a lock nut type it would have not been easy to tighten > down and may have required the use of a spanner, Why? there is a good gripping surface. I have tightened nylock nuts by hand. Of course not enough for the fitting but then they are not equipped with the same gripping surface as the PO BP nuts and not designed to be hand tightened > you have a nice spacer and > the nylon helps the nut remain in place. From the website the purpose of the insert is to keep the nut in place not just help. And an 8mm SS washer will do the spacer job. > do they work ? You would see from my posting that I do not know yet if the do the job they are advertised to do. > if so use them and > stop nit picking Is asking that a product does the complete job it is advertised to do nit picking. > and have some fun. I do that anyway. Do you have them? >replace spamblock with my family name to e-mail me > Why? there is a good gripping surface. I have tightened nylock nuts by > hand. Of course not enough for the fitting but then they are not > equipped with the same gripping surface as the PO BP nuts and not > designed to be hand tightened If you have tightened an M8 NyLoc nut by hand, then you are either superhero strong and have metal fingers or (more likely) that the nylon insert in the nut has become very worn due to being used several times. Officially NyLoc nuts are only designed to be fully effective on the 1st use. The nylon ring in the nut will ten conform to the thread and provide sufficient friction and anti-vibration to reduce the likelihood of the nut becoming lose because of vibration, much as in the same was as a spring washer. If a NyLoc nut can be hand tightened (I assume you mean without a spanner) than it has gone past the end of it's useful life and should have already been replaced. As far as the Portland product is concerned it looks simply like they have produced an oversize nut with sufficient diameter and grip to remove the need for a spanner and nylo inserts to provide frction between the nut and the backplate without scratching or scuffing. In this case they seem to have an adequate product, always assuming that the central 'channel' in your backplate is wide enough to accomodate the oversised nut. If you are that worried then return the nuts and buy a box of M8 A4 stainless steel NyLoc nuts and a 13mm ring spanner! > From the website the purpose of the insert is to keep the nut in place > not just help. And an 8mm SS washer will do the spacer job. It would have to be a spring or locking washer which would scuff a stainless steel plate and could scratch the anodising of an aluminium plate. > > do they work ? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > if so use them and > > stop nit picking I agree, use them for a couple of dives and keep a couple of spare NyLoc nuts and spring washers as well. > Is asking that a product does the complete job it is advertised to do > nit picking. How will you know unless you try them? >Officially NyLoc >nuts are only designed to be fully effective on the 1st use. My father was involved in some research that showed that they were at there most effective on the second use. -- Pete diving 'at' melbourne 'dot' me 'dot' uk > My father was involved in some research that showed that they were at > there most effective on the second use. > -- > Pete > diving 'at' melbourne 'dot' me 'dot' uk Thanks Pete, Interesting to know, but still does not overcome the problem that NyLoc nuts have a limited number of times when they will be effective and, as they are quite cheap (if bought from a trade counter) then replacing regularly is not a significant problem. Tony > > My father was involved in some research that showed that they were at > > there most effective on the second use. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Tony in my experience and AFAIR I have never had a NyLock nut drop off a bolt or stud however many times they had been used. OK the number of removals was never in the 100s but they still stayed on. This may be because I seldom forgot to tighten them enough and if propperly tightened the locking efect is not used. >replace spamblock with my family name to e-mail me > > Is asking that a product does the complete job it is advertised to do > > nit picking. > > > How will you know unless you try them? By doing as I am and asking for input from other users. ;-) >replace spamblock with my family name to e-mail me Please don't take this wrong you seem a little to thin skinned to be alone on the net, please stick to bcds they require less technical knowledge to set up and you would not have to worry about these sort strange things, used those no but then neither have you ! use em stop whining or better yet ignore me :) >> If the nylon had been a lock nut type it would have not been easy to >> tighten [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > >>replace spamblock with my family name to e-mail me > From the website the purpose of the insert is to keep the nut in place > not just help. And an 8mm SS washer will do the spacer job. Maybe the coefficient of friction between nylon and stainless steel is different than steel on steel? I'd replace that web-page with an apology... Sean > Maybe the coefficient of friction between nylon and stainless steel is > different than steel on steel? I'd replace that web-page with an apology... > > Sean Although important, the coefficient of friction is not the most important reason for the use of nylon, either as an insert (as with NyLoc nuts) or as a 'washer' as in the Portland product. It is the inherent elasticity of the nylon that allows it to absorb vibration that could or would loosen a metal to metal only product. It does not even have to be nylon that does this, it could be a metal spring washer, which are also (correctly) called anti-vibration washers, however this would cause scuffing and scratching of the metal surfaces, which is not he case for a nylon insert. > I would like to know what others who have bought BACKPLATE NUTS from > Portland Oceaneering have found. Jerome They work a treat, had mine for over a year regularly swap between different twinsets no tools, no fuss, and they stay tight. T > I would like to know what others who have bought BACKPLATE NUTS from > Portland Oceaneering have found. Jerome They work a treat, had mine for over a year regularly swap between different twinsets no tools, no fuss, and they stay tight. T > > I would like to know what others who have bought BACKPLATE NUTS from > > Portland Oceaneering have found. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > They work a treat, had mine for over a year regularly swap between > different twinsets no tools, no fuss, and they stay tight. Thanks Tim Do yours have a thread in the Nylon insert like <http://meekings.net/diving/portlandoceaneering/index-Pages/Image0.html> or are they like <http://meekings.net/diving/portlandoceaneering/index-Pages/Image4.html> with no thread. FWIW both have been on an 8mm bolt >replace spamblock with my family name to e-mail me > I would like to know what others who have bought BACKPLATE NUTS from > Portland Oceaneering have found. Hmmmm, you could try not whinging on the whole internet and just ringing them direct. This seems like a lot of kerfuffle over a set of nuts, which can easily be solved by talking. The telephone is like the internet, only direct, clear and less prone to interpretation problems. /Z > Hmmmm, you could try not whinging on the whole internet and just ringing > them direct. I am not complaning yet I am asking for information also that is a very expensive international call :-(, I would not get answers from other users, and it is a little dificult to show pics. over the phone. >replace spamblock with my family name to e-mail me Or you could email them directly. As cheap (free) as this thread! > Or you could email them directly. As cheap (free) as this thread! Tony. Had they responded to my e-mail, repeted several times, I would not have either posted to this group or made the web page public. It is because of this lack of reply since the 12th that I have posted. Direct contact is always my first choice. >replace spamblock with my family name to e-mail me Jerome What makes you think the information provided on their web-site and their e-mail response are contradictory? The nylon insert is quite capable of providing BOTH functions. You seem to be assuming the friction aspects work in a manner similar to Nylock nuts - it doesn't. I have a set of these nuts myself and don't understand why you're making such a fuss over asking the wrong question. If you had any sort of intelligence you wouldn't sound off in such an ignorant/arrogant fashion asuming their product/information was faulty when it's your education that's at fault. I'm not surprised they haven't wasted any more time on someone who's incapable of understanding basic mechanical principals. Go back to mask & snorkel and start again. 8 E-mails to them!!!!! The less idiots like you in the water the better.  Signaturelulu That's exactly whatI thought! |
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