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Scuba Forum / UK Scuba / November 2004Excel airways legroom
Having recently flown to Hurghada and back in conditions cramped enough to drive anyone terminally insane, and knowing how the flight was packed with divers, I wondered if we might all write en-mass to Excel and persuade them to do something about it. I refer to the seating pitch, though they did of course also try to stew us for a while in an airless sauna. The policy of squashing in seats so as to use up every last millimetre is self defeating in that I shall now be more hesitatant in fluting on that route / with that airline in future (and therefore so will at least some other people will think the same, and so less income goes to Excel). Just as bus companies try to get an extra two or four people in, but at the price of forcing everyone else to sit sideways on an otherwise two-person seat, and that last extra row thereby actually halving the practical useable area, so I would have thought Excel could take a row or two out and give everyone the resulting extra 2-3", and they'd in the long run be better off for it. > Having recently flown to Hurghada and back in conditions cramped enough to > drive anyone terminally insane, and knowing how the flight was packed with Just like any other 'economy' airline seat. If you want a big seat with lots of legroom, you can pay for business class. If you don't want to pay more, then you get a little less legroom (and frankly it's more than enough space for a 4 hour flight). David > Just like any other 'economy' airline seat. If you want a big seat with > lots of legroom, you can pay for business class. If you don't want to pay > more, then you get a little less legroom (and frankly it's more than > enough space for a 4 hour flight). Business class is not available I'm not sure how having your knee jammed into the seat in front counts as 'more than enough'. Its a five hour flight, plus of course the extra 15-30 minutes each end before / after take off. > Business class is not available If it's not available, that is because there isn't sufficient demand for it. If lots of people were willing to pay many times more money for the flights to get that extra legroom, they'd be happy to oblige and take your money. And really, unless you're 7 foot tall you must have a very strange posture to get your knees jammed into the seats infront of you. It's not an ideal size, we could all do with a bit more space, but it's sufficient for everyone else. David > We could all do with a bit more space Doesn't that confirm my first point and we ought tell the airline that, or are you one of those people who believe their lot is entirely in the hands of some great anonymous unknown, which must be obeyed without question? >> We could all do with a bit more space > > Doesn't that confirm my first point and we ought tell the airline that, or > are you one of those people who believe their lot is entirely in the hands > of some great anonymous unknown, which must be obeyed without question? Everything's a compromise. How much do you value the extra 10cm of space? An extra ?10 for the flight? ?20? Go on, put a figure on it - how much would you pay Excel Airlines for 10cm extra legroom? For a return flight from Gatwick to Egypt. Either in terms of ? or %, either is fine. David >>> We could all do with a bit more space >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >extra legroom? For a return flight from Gatwick to Egypt. Either in terms >of £ or %, either is fine. I would pay at least 50 pounds to go with a major scheduled carried (like BA) instead of a charter. For a business class seat I would pay double. Unfortunately, they are usually at least quadruple.  SignatureDavid Mahon >> Business class is not available > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >size, we could all do with a bit more space, but it's sufficient for >everyone else. No it's not. Airlines have been taking the piss for years. I weas once told that passengers are referred to as "Self loading cargo". Pete s. > No it's not. More space => higher prices. I like cheap :O) David >> No it's not. > >More space => higher prices. I like cheap :O) > >David I just don't fit into the standard charter seat. Pete S. >>> No it's not. >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I just don't fit into the standard charter seat. That'll be the eight legs, two heads and seven arms, Pete - I always told you that you were a tad strange! ;-) >>>> No it's not. >>> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >That'll be the eight legs, two heads and seven arms, Pete - I always told >you that you were a tad strange! ;-) They are not all legs........ Pete s. > And really, unless you're 7 foot tall you must have a very strange posture > to get your knees jammed into the seats infront of you. It's not an ideal > size, we could all do with a bit more space, but it's sufficient for > everyone else. No... I think that anyone over about 6'3" will have problems. Over the last few years I've had to take quite a few of those easyjet/ryanair/flybe type flights, and on occasion I've been unable to get into the seats -literally I cannot get my backside onto the chair! For an hour it's bloody uncomfortable, but I put up with it because it's cheap. Usually the air hostesses move me to the exit row, which is nice. The person I really feel sorry for is the poor mug with my knees in their back up ahead. For the record, I'm 6'7". If I was going to the redsea I think I'd try and splash out an extra hundred quid and go with BA/similar Ben Signature-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Ben Panter, Edinburgh, UK email is false. Use my name (no spaces) at bigfoot which is a com. And really, unless you're 7 foot tall you must have a very strange posture to get your knees jammed into the seats infront of you. David, I'm only 6 foot 1 and I just do not fit in the charter airline seats. The problem is not my height but the distance from hip to knee. It doesn't help to I've had a lot of surgery on my knee and so this means I have loads of problems flying cattle class. I spent a very, very uncomfortable 4 hours going to/from Tenerife last week and to be honest it really put a downer on the holiday (as did the 7 hour delay at Manchester). We flew with Thomas Cook which gave an extra 10kg for our diving gear (well done Thomas Cook) shame that they pack us in so tight. I've just got back from the travel agent to book for Kenya in May. We have booked with BA and upgraded to World Traveller Plus seats, but the baggage allowance is very poor. Only 23Kg and no extra for diving gear (but you can take 12Kg hand luggage, madness indeed!) Craig > And really, unless you're 7 foot tall you must have a very strange posture > to get your knees jammed into the seats infront of you. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > our diving gear (well done Thomas Cook) shame that they pack us in so > tight. Just to add my tuppence - I flew to Grenada with Excel in the summer and had a very uncomfortable eight hours (I'm 1.85m / 95kg) The only odd thing was although Excel allowed 30kg plus 10kg for dive gear, Neilson (who we booked with) reduced the allowance to 20kg, but still allowed the extra 10kg free for gear. As someone else noted, they were VERY strict about the 5kg hand luggage. Now I'm going to Bodrum flying with Thomas Cook Airlines (again with Neilson and 20kg), and they have NO free excess for dive gear. What's it like wearing a BCD for a four hour flight? :-( P. > Just to add my tuppence - I flew to Grenada with Excel in the summer and > had a very uncomfortable eight hours (I'm 1.85m / 95kg) [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > What's it like wearing a BCD for a four hour flight? > :-( Never heard of Neilson, but I think the moral of the story is not to book with them again! David > > Just to add my tuppence - I flew to Grenada with Excel in the summer and > > had a very uncomfortable eight hours (I'm 1.85m / 95kg) [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > David Neilson used to be one of the best tour operators in the UK. A long time ago. When they were still independent. They were pretty much a skiing specialist with a limited portfolio. I went with them a couple of times, they were superb. They got into trouble a while ago with three or four poor ski seasons together and got bought out by one of the big players (poss Thomson), who used the brand to promote all their "active" holidays. The rest, as they say... CAS Signaturehttp://divesite.calumscott.me.uk > They got into trouble a while ago with three or four poor ski seasons > together and got bought out by one of the big players (poss Thomson), who Beg your pardon, its Thomas Cook. CAS Signaturehttp://divesite.calumscott.me.uk Just got back on Monday from Sharm, diving from MV Orchid. Flew with Excel, and it was obvious that the plane we flew home on was much older than the plane we flew out on as the seats on the return flight were more cramped and rock hard (bugger all seat padding). I'm not that tall (5'7") and even I felt constrained and had a numb bum after 10 minutes. However, at least mu luggage was Ok and they did not quiblle about being a few KG's overweighted. > > > Just to add my tuppence - I flew to Grenada with Excel in the summer and > > > had a very uncomfortable eight hours (I'm 1.85m / 95kg) [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > CAS >> Just like any other 'economy' airline seat. If you want a big seat with >> lots of legroom, you can pay for business class. If you don't want to pay >> more, then you get a little less legroom (and frankly it's more than >> enough space for a 4 hour flight). > >Business class is not available On my flight with Excel to Hurghada, not only was business class available, so was first! Well, compared to the major airlines, business was like premium economy and first was like business. But it was surprising. It wasn't on the return flight though. SignatureDavid Mahon >> Having recently flown to Hurghada and back in conditions cramped enough >> to drive anyone terminally insane, and knowing how the flight was packed >> with Flying Excel to the Red Sea on Thursday. One good thing about them is the 10 kg extra baggage for divers. Need it, as I am going on my own, without the wife (non diver/less baggage). :-))))))) Eddie > One good thing about them is the 10kg extra baggage for divers. Oh really? They didnt shout about it. One quirky thing I did notice, though not the airline's doing, was that the Gatwick airport scales showed my bag as 19Kg on the way out, and the Hurghada checkin scales fluctuated in a demented sort of way without reason between 13 and 17 Kg on the way back despite there being more in my bag! >> One good thing about them is the 10kg extra baggage for divers. > > Oh really? They didnt shout about it. Yup! Its there on their website. Ryanair have something similar but you have to pay a little extra for the excess baggage prior to flying. I didn't find out about their offer till I arrived back in Nissun hut territory (Bournemouth) after flying from Gerona. Eddie Who doesn't want to fly Ryanair agin! > Flying Excel to the Red Sea on Thursday. One good thing about them is the > 10 kg extra baggage for divers. Need it, as I am going on my own, without > the wife (non diver/less baggage). :-))))))) > > Eddie Jeez! Just got back from Marsa Alam last night. Excel lost my luggage so I had a whole week on Tiger Lily without my clothes and dive gear. Had to hire a whole set of equipment at a cost of ?113. Luggage at Serviceair desk on arrival back at Gatwick. Needless to I am going for some sort of compensation for the stress of arrival, cost and having to get used to new gear Going for Excel first and then looking at my dive insurance. Any advice??????? Diving was great but St John's reef was very busy with loads of divers. :-(((((((( Eddie > Jeez! Just got back from Marsa Alam last night. Excel lost my luggage so I > had a whole week on Tiger Lily without my clothes and dive gear. Had to hire [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > gear Going for Excel first and then looking at my dive insurance. Any > advice??????? > Eddie Save yourself the hassle and just have it off your insurance - Excel will blame Serviceair, Serviceair will blame Excel and it'll go nowhere. Check your policy though - it may stipulate that you have to try to claim compo off the airline or their agents first. CAS David, It would be faor to assume you are either a midget or have no legs. Airlines have been under pressure for years to increase leg rom american airlines have done and offer 35 inches of leg room to econonmy passengers. BA and most other airlines have 31 inches. This site gives trhe seat pitches for a large number of airlines. http://www.travelleronline.com/planner/airnews.shtml I am 1.9 m tall and 100kg. The seats are too small for anything longer than about 90 minutes unless you are a midget or have no legs.... >> Having recently flown to Hurghada and back in conditions cramped enough >> to drive anyone terminally insane, and knowing how the flight was packed [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > David > I am 1.9 m tall and 100kg. The seats are too small for anything longer > than about 90 minutes unless you are a midget or have no legs.... Ah well, seems I'm outvoted. And yes I do have legs, and at 5'11" not much of a midget (although getting that way - everyone seems taller than me now). Maybe I just have lower expectations - the entire week will cost around ?700 in total (including absolutely everything from leaving the house, flights, liveaboard for the week, the Ras Mohammed fee, tips for the crew, and out last night in the town) so I don't expect mega-luxury. It get's me where i'm going and i'll do me. And to think people think that students complain a lot - HA! :O) David >Having recently flown to Hurghada and back in conditions cramped enough to >drive anyone terminally insane, and knowing how the flight was packed with [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >have thought Excel could take a row or two out and give everyone the >resulting extra 2-3", and they'd in the long run be better off for it. Ah, that would be scum class then... Pete S. Emirates business class passenger. A seat that fits and food I can eat and a realistic luggage allowance. And a limo to the airport. > Pete S. Emirates business class passenger. A seat that fits and food I > can eat and a realistic luggage allowance. And a limo to the airport. So you we won't bump into you on our liveaboard then - just about the cheapest one in the Red Sea :O) My idea of a Red Sea liveaboard holiday is that you don't care where you stay (as long as it's a liveaboard), or how your get there (within reason obviously), as long as you get to do the same dives and go with the same group of people we'll have as much fun as someone who paid 3 times as much as us. David I didn't think Hurgada was known for great diving - good for training, but not as good scenically as Sharm. Shame you didn't enjoy it, but I'm sure at this time of year it was a reasonably cheap holiday. Some times it's better to smile and enjoy the good points, than moan incessantly about the bad things. OTOH, I flew Excel to Hurghada, with Inspiration c/w cylinders, 20kg sofnolime + all other dive kit, clothes etc all in all 40kg+ over weight & they never batted an eye, the only thing they were concerned about was the 5kg weight limit on hand luggage. Of the six of us who flew out, not one was less than 20kg over weight- no charge > Having recently flown to Hurghada and back in conditions cramped enough to > drive anyone terminally insane, and knowing how the flight was packed with [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > everyone the resulting extra 2-3", and they'd in the long run be better > off for it. |
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