What is the difference in flexibility/image quality between a bottom of
the range digital SLR and a top of the range compact/prosumer model?
I'm in the market for a new land camera, and I'd like it to be digital.
I'm somewhat lucky in that I have no legacy kit (it is all far too
legacy) to worry about compatability with, and time to pick and choose.
My budget streches just about to the EOS 300D w/18-55mm without a
housing, or possibly to the olympus 8080 with a housing.
If I bought the EOS I'd get a housing in the fullness of time, but
certainly not for the first year or so. This is probably the way I will
end up going, but I don't know much about the 8080 except that it is
olympus' flagship model: I've had good results with its little brother
the c40z. I guess what I'd really like to know is folks' experiences of
the top end cameras, and whether I really will notice the difference
with an SLR - in particular with the shutter lag.
Cheers,
Ben
PS: Bardo, Why do you rate the 5060 over the 8080?

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Bardo - 27 Sep 2004 20:29 GMT
> What is the difference in flexibility/image quality between a bottom of
> the range digital SLR and a top of the range compact/prosumer model?
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> top end cameras, and whether I really will notice the difference with an
> SLR - in particular with the shutter lag.
Might have an Olympus 8080 for sale, if you're interested Ben. Make me an
offer, as they say!
Pete S. - 27 Sep 2004 20:47 GMT
>What is the difference in flexibility/image quality between a bottom of
>the range digital SLR and a top of the range compact/prosumer model?
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>the top end cameras, and whether I really will notice the difference
>with an SLR - in particular with the shutter lag.
Lack of shutter lag was one of the reasons I ended up with a Fuji S2
digital SLR. But that would be overbudget anyway.
Shutter lag only effects shots where something is moving, or you need
to take a shot "NOW". Fish shots are "NOW". Wreck shots are whenever.
Pete S.
timppa - 27 Sep 2004 21:08 GMT
> >What is the difference in flexibility/image quality between a bottom of
> >the range digital SLR and a top of the range compact/prosumer model?
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> Pete S.
Another thing that might deserve consideration if you are looking to spend
this much money is the availablity of TTL compatible flash units. While
slave TTL is mostly fine, it tends to produce a slight variation in
exposure. In the ballpark of 1/2 stops either way in the case of my Ikelite
TTL slave. Whether this is nothing, a bit or a hell of a lot depends on your
needs. Slide film has little exposure latitude, CCD in RAW mode has more (up
to 2 stops they claim, but in reality my D100 is no good beoynd about 3/4
stops on land). Anyway, having a wired (x)TTL flash available for future
needs is maybe a bonus?
timo
http://www.ahomaki.net
Bardo - 27 Sep 2004 22:24 GMT
> Another thing that might deserve consideration if you are looking to spend
> this much money is the availablity of TTL compatible flash units. While
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> stops on land). Anyway, having a wired (x)TTL flash available for future
> needs is maybe a bonus?
Which is where the Olympus digital cameras score highly as they do offer
true TTL synchronisation...
Timo Ahom?ki - 28 Sep 2004 06:33 GMT
> > Another thing that might deserve consideration if you are looking to spend
> > this much money is the availablity of TTL compatible flash units. While
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> Which is where the Olympus digital cameras score highly as they do offer
> true TTL synchronisation...
Out of curiosity since Olympus is a bit of a white spot for me, who makes UW
strobes compatible with Olympus? The cameras as such look good but since I
have been a Nikonist since I converted from Canon 15 years ago, I have
really only been looking at Nikon compatible gear recently. OTOH, my SO's
Coolpix 5000 needs to be replaced at some point...
timo
Nige - 28 Sep 2004 12:28 GMT
> > > Another thing that might deserve consideration if you are looking to
> spend
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> timo
try here http://www.camerasunderwater.co.uk/d_stills/olympus/ttl_adap.html
hth
Nige
Pete S. - 28 Sep 2004 08:15 GMT
>> Another thing that might deserve consideration if you are looking to spend
>> this much money is the availablity of TTL compatible flash units. While
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>Which is where the Olympus digital cameras score highly as they do offer
>true TTL synchronisation...
As does the Fuji S2. Another reason for that choice. The Nikons don't
work TTL.
Pete S
Anders Arnholm - 28 Sep 2004 19:05 GMT
>>the top end cameras, and whether I really will notice the difference
>>with an SLR - in particular with the shutter lag.
> Shutter lag only effects shots where something is moving, or you need
> to take a shot "NOW". Fish shots are "NOW". Wreck shots are whenever.
In my experience almost all shutter lag is due to bad autofocus in low
light enviromants, having manual focus and manual exposiue
messurments will for most cameras take away all the shutter lag.
Manual fucus could be hard on some small cameras, however manual
exposure messure mesta are usally easy. Then ysung the press halftway
trick and wait for the picture to come into place removes all the
shutterlag even on cheep compact cameras. (Doing this on a small
camera with dry gloves in a pressed situations however is one other
thing.)
/ Anders

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simon v - 28 Sep 2004 12:28 GMT
> What is the difference in flexibility/image quality between a bottom of
> the range digital SLR and a top of the range compact/prosumer model?
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> My budget streches just about to the EOS 300D w/18-55mm without a
> housing, or possibly to the olympus 8080 with a housing.
I'm very impressed with my 300D on land. I upgraded from a mid-range
compact, mostly because of the lag during image capture. The Canon
has no appreciable lag. It fires a 2.5 frame-per-second burst but only
for 4 frames which I guess may be useful for fish shots. Clearly it
can be used in any manner from fully auto to fully manual. There's no
shutter lock-up for long exposure shots which might be a problem if
you want to do ambient light work. Working in RAW the file sizes are
7MB so you'll need plenty of storeage, but even the large jpegs are
only 1.7MB or so
Only two issues that annoy me - it takes a few seconds to boot up when
it switches on, and after power-save shutdown, but you can disable the
power-save. Also, the kit lens isn't truely 18-55 becuase of the 1.6
scaling factor on the CCD device. It works out to 28-88mm. EF-S
lenses are not back compatible to other EOS cameras, but the standard
EF lenses will fit the 300D (another reason for my purchase as I have
a bag of EF lenses
If you want more info on the 300D there is a good forum at
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/forum.asp?forum=1031
I'm truly envious if you can really afford a housing.........
Pete S. - 28 Sep 2004 17:43 GMT
>Only two issues that annoy me - it takes a few seconds to boot up when
>it switches on, and after power-save shutdown, but you can disable the
>power-save.
Are you using a CF microdrive? The Fuji S2 suffers like this but the
problem apparently goes away if you use solid state cards.
Pete S.
Anders Arnholm - 28 Sep 2004 18:37 GMT
> I'm in the market for a new land camera, and I'd like it to be digital.
> I'm somewhat lucky in that I have no legacy kit (it is all far too
> legacy) to worry about compatability with, and time to pick and choose.
> My budget streches just about to the EOS 300D w/18-55mm without a
> housing, or possibly to the olympus 8080 with a housing.
For land photograpty the EOS 300D is way ahead of the Olympus 5060, i
personaly don't think the step between 5060 and 8080 is as big as the
difference between 5060 and 300D. However the underwater kits for the
300D is expencive. For that reason I have a 5060 for uv-photo. Today I
might even go for a 5050 if I can find one. But the 5060 have good
wide-angle possibilities, especially with a Inon 100w lens addition.
> olympus' flagship model: I've had good results with its little brother
> the c40z. I guess what I'd really like to know is folks' experiences of
> the top end cameras, and whether I really will notice the difference
Ask your self what are you missing from the c40z underwater? As I see
it with a Wideangle adapter you can get close to 19mm eqivalent 35mm
optics, also you should be able to get a good flash (or is it strobe)
for the camera, personaly I have a Inon 180. Maybe this extra kit and
a 300D. I would say that a good flash and a Wideangle lens will give
you more that changing the camera to a 8080. Four megapixel will
probaly almost give you printed A4, do you need bigger printouts?
However this will not give you a better land camera. But maybe you
this way can free money for the funny 300D and still get a many good
uv-photos?
/ Anders

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Ben Panter - 29 Sep 2004 08:54 GMT
[snip]
> However this will not give you a better land camera. But maybe you
> this way can free money for the funny 300D and still get a many good
> uv-photos?
Yeup - the more I think about it the more I'm going for an SLR. The only
real problem that I have with the c40 is the battery life - it runs off
2 AAs and although that is fine if you are not using the flash at all,
it will drain half way through an hour long dive. I can mitigate it by
buying those lithium slab batteries, but they are getting harder to find
these days. I could probably also be a bit more dissaplined about
switching the camera to sleep and only taking shots where the
composition is just so....
Now I just have to try to rationalise between the 300D and the 10D...
Cheers,
Ben

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Frank Bruce - 29 Sep 2004 08:56 GMT
It' your Birthday - treat youself!
Best
/F
http://www.e-aquanauts.com : technical training.
Ben Panter - 29 Sep 2004 09:11 GMT
> It' your Birthday - treat youself!
>
> Best
Cheers Frank - but you're a day early - it's on the 30th!
I shall be celebrating my birthday by flying from Edinburgh to Munich...
via Amsterdam and possibly the duty free camera shop...
Ben

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Bardo - 29 Sep 2004 09:10 GMT
> [snip]
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Now I just have to try to rationalise between the 300D and the 10D...
You sure I can't tempt you with a second hand Olympus 8080, Ben? ;-)
Pete S. - 29 Sep 2004 12:26 GMT
>Now I just have to try to rationalise between the 300D and the 10D...
No no no. You NEED a 1Ds.....
Pete S.
dave - 29 Sep 2004 16:21 GMT
> [snip]
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Ben
or the 20d.......
dave - 29 Sep 2004 16:18 GMT
i use a 10d above the water and a 5060 below it.
the price for the housing on the 10d was prohibitive, likewise, the
possibility of flooding and destroying ?1500+ of kit on a dive was a little
daunting, especially as it gets used for other hobby stuff.
i opted for the oly 5060 in the pt020 housing coupled to a ys60 (which i
already had) via a michael finger ttl bulkhead adapator
(http://www.devilgas.com/oly5060/index.php). total cost (excl ys60) was
about ?650 - less than the price of a housing for the 10d - and i could use
my existing strobe.
comparative pros of the the 5060 against the dslr is that you can use the
lcd to frame the shots. with the dslr you'd have to look through the
viewfiinder. the 5060 will shoot video, the dlsr doesn't.
that's about it as far as the pros go as the dslr will urinate all over the
5060 in every other aspect.
have heard the 8080 is noisier than the 5060. check out the oly scuba forums
for definitive answers.
shutter lag on the 5060 can be minimised, but will always be there. if you
need instant capture, dslr is the way to go, or have a camera with a fixed
lens (my old fuji mx1200 had no shutter lag).
i'm happy with having separate systems, but do miss the ease & response of
the dslr when using the 5060.
hope that's of some use.
> What is the difference in flexibility/image quality between a bottom of
> the range digital SLR and a top of the range compact/prosumer model?
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> PS: Bardo, Why do you rate the 5060 over the 8080?