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Scuba Forum / UK Scuba / November 2006The old PADI / BSAC question
Eek - never seen such infighting between organisations that basically offer the same thing! It seems very hard to impartial advise as most divers seem to be very pro one and anti the other! I think I'll go BSAC - hear me out and see if my theory holds water so to speak...: I have the time and am not really willing to throw pots of money at diving, while your basic PADI / BSAC course will cost about the same in the end if I pass the ocean diver relatively quickly I could move on to look at sports diver at no extra cost. If I go PADI then I know I wouldn't do anything else as I'd always have my hand in my pocket - these guys rely on that as its a commercial set up. On the other hand suppose I'm crap at it - I need more time PADI will charge me for my incompetence... Then again I don't want to spend a year doing what could take a weekend with PADI! Think I've made my mind up but any feedback would be good. John > Think I've made my mind up but any feedback would be good. > > John It is up to you. If you have decided and are happy then go for it. Most people on this ng would of, at sometime or other had training from both PADI and BSAC so IMHO I would of thought that you would of gotten a fairly balanced opinion about the two. Try what you have picked and just bear in mind that you do not have to be rigid in your training type. Join the BSAC and get the best you can from a club environment but if you feel there is something that PADI do is right for you then go with that as well. Diving is expensive and yes PADI are a commercial enterprise. That in its self should not stop you from taking advantage of what they offer if it is right for you. taz. > Eek - never seen such infighting between organisations that basically offer > the same thing! No I haven't seen such fighting either. In fact I have never seen any fighting at all between the two organisations. The only fighting I ever heard of was always related second, third or fourth hand, so I now suspect it was either ancient history or a myth propagated by the ignorant. Cliff. > Eek - never seen such infighting between organisations that basically offer > the same thing! > It seems very hard to impartial advise as most divers seem to be very pro > one and anti the other! Err... really? Most of us have been trained by both agencies, and aren't pro/anti either agency. The important thing is to get the right instructor. Alun Harford > Eek - never seen such infighting between organisations that basically offer > the same thing! Err... where? > It seems very hard to impartial advise as most divers seem to be very pro > one and anti the other! That's not my experience, most divers seem to be pro-diving and that's about it. > I think I'll go BSAC - hear me out and see if my theory holds water so to > speak...: > I have the time and am not really willing to throw pots of money at diving, You've picked the wrong pastime then. > while your basic PADI / BSAC course will cost about the same in the end if I > pass the ocean diver relatively quickly I could move on to look at sports > diver at no extra cost. If I go PADI then I know I wouldn't do anything else > as I'd always have my hand in my pocket - these guys rely on that as its a > commercial set up. On the other hand suppose I'm crap at it - I need more > time PADI will charge me for my incompetence... Not if you go to the right instructor (As Alun pointed out), good schools will take your cash and make you an Open Water Diver regardless of how long it takes or how many pool sessions you need or whatever. And why would you want to skimp on training that is going to keep you alive when you are surrounded by stuff that you can't breathe? > Then again I don't want to spend a year doing what could take a weekend with > PADI! But when you spend a year doing it you will be doing something diving related every week for that year (it shouldn't take a year BTW - a few months should do it). By the time you get your OD cert from BSAC you will have picked up a lot more information about peripheral things along the way that you would if you go the PADI route. > Think I've made my mind up but any feedback would be good. Think long and hard, absorb what people say, try to filter the crap out and see what you are left with. Don't skimp on training, don't just stop at OW/OD - they are called entry level for a reason. BSAC Sports or PADI Rescue is a good place to be. Oh aye, and enjoy it - its a great sport. CAS Tar - no offence meant! Actually its been th PADI guys that are anti BSAC (maybe they are just trying to get the business) . I'm not worried about the time scale really - in fact I feel it would be better, taking the time to run things properly not always looking to the next section. I guess you can't really know until to pays your money and actually does it... I'm sure loth are great and theres nothing stopping going between the two. > > Eek - never seen such infighting between organisations that basically > offer [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > CAS > Tar - no offence meant! Actually its been th PADI guys that are anti BSAC > (maybe they are just trying to get the business) . Instructors? Well they are obviously going to try to get your business but if you feel that they are being just plain shitty then go elsewhere. An instuctor who can't sell his way without simply slagging down the other is one to be avoided IMHO. > I'm not worried about the time scale really - in fact I feel it would be > better, taking the time to run things properly not always looking to the > next section. > I guess you can't really know until to pays your money and actually does > it... I'm sure loth are great and theres nothing stopping going between the > two. Indeed there isn't. I'm PADI trained and in the process of crossing over to PADI. You'll find people with cards from all agencies here, and some of those people will have all agency cards themselves! CAS PS. don't top post, it annoys people.,.. > I'm PADI trained and in the process of crossing over to > PADI. > > CAS CAS Que? John, I'm BSAC Sports (old pre Club / Ocean Diver), PADI Rescue, about to do the PADI DM and then the BSAC Dive Leader. Get a good instructor, for my DM I'm actually playing Guinea pig for a New instructor so we'll see how he does :-) The DL after I'm looking forward to, There is ALWAYS something new to learn, and a good instructor will make the diference between an easy enjoyable course and hell. As for shops punting their particular flavour of course there are ones like EDC in Marmiras / Fethiye or Deeper Blue in Malta who run both (and CMAS / TDI ). Who will pitch the course at what you want to do AFTER the basics. Above all else have fun.. At least it's cheaper than learning to fly [1] HTH DaveA [1] One day, one day. -- > > I'm PADI trained and in the process of crossing over to > > PADI. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Que? Hehehe - Los Fartos de la Brainos! Too long a day attempting to format f**ked hard drives... CAS >Tar - no offence meant! Actually its been th PADI guys that are anti BSAC >(maybe they are just trying to get the business) . not in my experience lol > Actually its been th PADI guys that are anti BSAC... In my experience it's normally only the newbie's indoctrinated by ignorant instructors who think like that. Don't worry, they soon grow out of it. I'm anti nobody (OK, DIR dogma types are an exception) and I think you will find most people around here think like that. Keith L > OK, DIR dogma types are an exception Well that bunch with the rebreathers do go on a bit... everybody else is wrong... nigelH The only person in my home who has a right to dogma is Cleo, she's a bitch. > Tar - no offence meant! Actually its been th PADI guys that are anti BSAC > (maybe they are just trying to get the business) . The first time I saw anything in reaql life it was from BSAC, well not anti-padi, just that they had a bad knowledge of what PADI was and so sure thet they had better education. To be honest BSAC could be one of the best dive educations in the world, if they were a little less conervative. (The conservatgism was clearly showed in the discusions about long hose.) / Balp  Signaturehttp://anders.arnholm.nu/ Keep on Balping > The first time I saw anything in reaql life it was from BSAC, well not > anti-padi, just that they had a bad knowledge of what PADI was and so [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > -- > http://anders.arnholm.nu/ Keep on Balping It's very simple. If your PADI you have no real knowledge of BSAC, so easy target. If your BSAC you have no real knowledge of PADI, so easy target. If you are both PADI & BSAC you know that the majority of these posts are garbage and that those making them are mostly spouting predujiced hearsay. TerryH are mostly spouting > predujiced hearsay. > > TerryH Or prejudiced heresy, depending on hoow much of a zelot you are :-) DaveA -- > Eek - never seen such infighting between organisations that basically offer > the same thing! > It seems very hard to impartial advise as most divers seem to be very pro > one and anti the other! Are you sure you want feedback, or just trying to start a flame war. Get real. Steve -- > > Eek - never seen such infighting between organisations that basically offer > > the same thing! [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Are you sure you want feedback, or just trying to start a flame war. Get > real. No really - we only know one diver socially and he's PADI trained... and if you were only to talk to him you'd think any one who wasn't PADI trained was suicidal and was never going to be able to dive any where in the world! Same with the PADI instructor - expressed the opinion that the BSAC really weren't up to much. Hence my devils advocacy..... Everyone in here is very level headed - all good stuff, thanks. Just wish I had enough cash to do the lot and be done with it! > Steve > > -- >.........we only know one diver socially and he's PADI trained... and if >you were only to talk to him you'd think any one who wasn't PADI trained was >suicidal and was never going to be able to dive any where in the world! Same >with the PADI instructor - expressed the opinion that the BSAC really >weren't up to much. Hence my devils advocacy............... Look John, it's very simple - it's got NOTHING to do with the training agency, it's all to do with the people! If you want to go PADI - find a LDS/Instructor that will actually take you diving after you qualify, or at least introduce you to a group of people who will. Stay away from the ones that tell you BSAC is crap (especially the one above), or want to sign you up for the Advanced OW before you finish the OW. If you feel you need the organised club environment, then go BSAC (or SAA, but not Norman's club purely on the principle of starting a third corner to the fight!). But again, go to a couple of club meetings and see if you're going to get on with them. But most of all, stay away from anyone with a rebreather, as we're all apparently suicidal and also boring as we have to work in the word "rebreather" to every discussion about diving. DaveT > But most of all, stay away from anyone with a rebreather, as we're all > apparently suicidal and also boring as we have to work in the word > "rebreather" > to every discussion about diving. Almost subtle... :O) David > Are you sure you want feedback, or just trying to start a flame war. Get real. If we're going to have a flame war let's do it about something important. Should Welshmen be allowed to dive in English waters? No hang on.... you're on the Plymouth trip... Belay that.... nigelH PADI, BSAC, TDI and IANTD cards. > Think I've made my mind up but any feedback would be good. This is called trolling. If you read this group you would have already known we don't do this one. If you read the archives you would find good advice on how to choose. If you're going BSAC because it's cheaper you are going to find diving a BIG disapointment. Training is the least of your costs. nigelH >> Think I've made my mind up but any feedback would be good. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > cheaper you are going to find diving a BIG disapointment. Training > is the least of your costs. Have you seen the latest prog on grumpy old men????? Lighten up! Have you got spell checker???? ;-))))))) Eddie >> John <my@address.com> wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Have you seen the latest prog on grumpy old men????? What is it? Grumpy old men live longer so they can make more people miserable for longer. He was making a strong statement that one organisation was bad and another good so he insulted most of the group in one hit as most of us have qualifications from all over. It wasn't a request for help but somebody who hasn't even done a diving course telling people who have probably done far too many why they are wrong. > Lighten up! No. Why? I've spent all weekend trying to finish a piece of software and it looks like it will be well into the night. I'm not a happy bunny. > Have you got spell checker???? ;-))))))) Yes thanks. I use it ocasionally/occashionally/ocaconally/sometimes. nigelH Am I missing the point here or has noboddy heard of SAA (which is the only one with CMAS recognition)? > >> John <my@address.com> wrote: > >> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > nigelH > Am I missing the point here or has noboddy heard of SAA Salvation Army Aquanauts? - Keith > Am I missing the point here or has noboddy heard of SAA (which is the only > one with CMAS recognition)? Oh no! I missed them off the list. I am mortified. I am so ashamed of myself. nigelH PADI, BSAC, TDI, IANTD ***and*** SAA cards. > Oh no! I missed them off the list. I am mortified. I am so ashamed of > myself. > > nigelH > PADI, BSAC, TDI, IANTD ***and*** SAA cards. Err, that probably because I've still got your SAA card on my desk somewhere. Err, hang on... ...do you want me to point a webcam at it or something? Al. >> nigelH >> PADI, BSAC, TDI, IANTD ***and*** SAA cards. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >...do you want me to point a webcam at it or something? haha :) >> Oh no! I missed them off the list. I am mortified. I am so ashamed of >> myself. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > ...do you want me to point a webcam at it or something? No hurry. ...but it might be nice to get it before it OOD. nigelH Hi Norman, When are you gonna come to SA to see our seas! We may be in the Drakensberg but not too far from sea. Please contact Collette (welnitzhall at gmail.com) when you can. >Am I missing the point here or has noboddy heard of SAA (which is the only >one with CMAS recognition)? >> >> >[quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >> >> nigelH Hi all I started off with BSAC back in the 80's with a school in cyprus and that was good then i went to PADI that was good as well i also done some SAA training which was not as good all what i can say is find a good BSAC branch with out grumpy old men if you can !! or dig deep in your pocket and go PADI then cross over to a BSAC branch. Happy Diving and good luck. > >> John <my@address.com> wrote: > >> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > nigelH then i went to PADI that was good as well i also done some SAA > training which was not as good all what i can say is find a good BSAC Again, a lot of this comes down to the instructor make sure you find a good one. Like many on here I've done both PADI and SAA (or BSAC) courses over the years and never had a problem with either. I've done rescue diver courses with both and personally found the SAA course more demanding/rewarding. Nick BSAC are CMAS recognition as well now have been for some time!! > then i went to PADI that was good as well i also done some SAA > > training which was not as good all what i can say is find a good BSAC [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Nick I must agree with almost everyone .... it's the instructor (and the student !! ) not the agency that counts and training isn't where your money goes. I must also comment though on the BSAC/PADI wars. I've been away for three or four years...and out of the water for a while :-( .... owing to the arrival of children in the house but 4 years ago this question would have degenerated into a flame war. Thank God those stupid days seem to be over and we're all now just concerned with safe diving and informed comments. Martin then i went to PADI that was good as well i also done some SAA > training which was not as good all what i can say is find a good BSAC Again, a lot of this comes down to the instructor make sure you find a good one. Like many on here I've done both PADI and SAA (or BSAC) courses over the years and never had a problem with either. I've done rescue diver courses with both and personally found the SAA course more demanding/rewarding. Nick > I must agree with almost everyone .... it's the instructor (and the student > !! ) [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Nick OMG- er, sorry?! I have seems to had caused a few waves.... I really haven't wanted to cause offence - what do I know? - you lot know far more than I could ever! All I really wan't was to know where is the best place to start - if one is going to fork out ?2/300 u want to know that its not going on something that will need re learning a year down the line. PADI rocks... I'm sure... BSAC rocks... as do all the others.... But really, noone in real live is as objective as the wonderful divers in here, they seem to strongly favour one or the other. . > Have you seen the latest prog on grumpy old men????? > > Lighten up! > > Have you got spell checker???? ;-))))))) The spell checker between my ears tells me "prog" is a non-existant word. Cliff. > I have the time and am not really willing to throw pots of > money at diving, while your basic PADI / BSAC course will > cost about the same in the end... The agency is immaterial, it's the instructor that counts. Your main problem will be unless you're willing to spend then this is the WRONG hobby!! Keith L > > I have the time and am not really willing to throw pots of > > money at diving, while your basic PADI / BSAC course will > > cost about the same in the end... > > The agency is immaterial, it's the instructor that counts. Your main problem > will be unless you're willing to spend then this is the WRONG hobby!! Very true - but like someone said at least its not learn to fly! but then who do u learn with... :) > Keith L > but then who do u learn with... Haven't been around here long have you? ;-) I'm primarily BSAC trained, a mixture of branch and commercial, I'm also IANTD qualified. You've also missed out the SAA, very similiar training to BSAC. Don't dismiss PADI, there's some damn good instructors out there and the teaching material is first rate. There isn't a "best", just a best for each individual. You choose... Keith L > > but then who do u learn with... > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Keith L maybe thats just it - I'm implying 'who is the best?' when really I mean 'who is the best for me, at the moment?' "John" <my@address.com> wrote in message > maybe thats just it - I'm implying 'who is the best?' when really I mean > 'who is the best for me, at the moment?' Possibly a better question would be, "What do I want to do after". There's absoulutly no point going the club route if you are going to log 10 dives a year on holiday abroad. Do a shop referal. Vice versa, if you want to UK dive the club route (BSAC / SAA via Branch or PADI via shop club)is *probably* best. Shop around see who does what at weekends when they're not teaching. HTH DaveA -- |
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