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Scuba Forum / UK Scuba / February 2004Stoney Cove Incident
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leicestershire/3510981.stm > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leicestershire/3510981.stm I hope the divers make a full recovery, from the brief report it sounds as through the rescue divers did a fair job. Although I've never dived there, it is obviously a very popular dive spot, so my question is there no recompression chamber there ? If not is there a good reason, it would seem to a onlooker that a place as popular as this should at least have an emergency chamber. Just my 2 pence worth. Richard > I hope the divers make a full recovery, from the brief report it > sounds as through the rescue divers did a fair job. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > reason, it would seem to a onlooker that a place as popular > as this should at least have an emergency chamber. From my understanding they just don't have the resources to run a chamber anymore - too many regulations, requirements etc from the HSE. We were at Stoney yesterday, and I have to say that looked to be the worst incident i've seen there. Its the first time I think i've ever seen search divers sent out for a lost buddy, but the staff as usual responded very quickly and managed the rescue as well as they could - boat was out quickly as usual, and the shop had full cylinders ready to lend to us for rescue dives as ours were being filled. Unfortunatley the woman inparticular looked in a very bad way, and from the quiet around the site its obvious how other divers are affected by incidents like this. While watching the boat go out though, I was rather concerned at the way people are diving in Stoney. It picked up the man who was in trouble, but there were two other people on their own on the surface, over 100m away from each other, who were nothing to to with the incident, but I wonder why they were there, on their own? As far as i'm aware solo diving isn't allowed in Stoney, and apart from anything else the boat had to waste time going and checking those two people in case they were the lost buddy. With people diving solo, or just leaving their buddy during a dive then serious incidents are going to become more and more regular occurences. David > From my understanding they just don't have the resources to run a chamber > anymore - too many regulations, requirements etc from the HSE. But they appear to have one at Chepstow so it can't be that hard. http://www.nationaldivingcentre.com/ bottom of the page.  SignatureMarkW nospam to scuba to reply > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leicestershire/3510981.stm > I hope the divers make a full recovery, from the brief report it [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Just my 2 pence worth. > Richard Well first off, you would need the facility to be staffed, so it would be prohibitively expensive. You also want a nearby hospital, so the patient can be monitored and treated as necessary between sessions in the chamber. A chamber at SC would only be useful for minor cases of DCS - and symptoms would often not appear well after the last dive, when the sufferer has left site. It's not as if there are accidents at Stoney every week! The Great Britain is a small country, and has good emergency medical services. You are never that far from a chamber - compare the situation with the US or Australia, for example. > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leicestershire/3510981.stm > > I hope the divers make a full recovery, from the brief report it [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > services. You are never that far from a chamber - compare the situation > with the US or Australia, for example. Bob When I said I thought that the site should have an emergency chamber I meant the portable type expressly manufactured to be transported by helicopter. They can be pressurised to 165 FSW and has portable patient and gas monitoring equipment. It is possible that your regulations require highly qualified personnel to accompany any victim in such a unit. Here a person with a paramedic qualification is authorised to use them. I stay in a 3rd World country but we have 2 such chambers that I know of near popular dive sites. And one of them is only 60 kms from a fully equipped medical facility. Not wanting to split hairs, but in the 1997 paper "Physiology and Medical Aspects of Scuba Diving" Dr. L. Martin said "The only effective treatment for DCS (and AGE) is recompression in a hyperbaric chamber, the sooner the better. All manifestations of DCS are potentially reversible if the victim can be quickly recompressed in a chamber. (snip) Delay in hyperbaric therapy may result in permanent paralysis. Treatment is recommended even if symptoms abate or clear before the patient reaches the chamber. This is because bubbles may still be present in the circulation, and could lead to a more devastating problem later on. Although altitude can worsen decompression sickness by lowering ambient pressure and increasing nitrogen egress from the tissues, time saved by flying to a chamber generally outweighs the risk." . In my humble opinion the cost of operating a portable chamber should be seriously considered by the relative authorities, as even the shortest delays in recompressing victims may have serious effects on the prognosis of the DCS. Anyway what do they spend all that TAX money on. Cheers Richard > In my humble opinion the cost of operating a portable chamber > should be seriously considered by the relative authorities, as even > the shortest delays in recompressing victims may have serious > effects on the prognosis of the DCS. Anyway what do they spend > all that TAX money on. The cost to equip a helicopter with a chamber, to have hyperbaric specialists on a minute's standby at the helicopter site, and to keep that running would be hugely expensive, and wouldn't be seen as a priority for the local NHS or whoever. Even if there was one, it would very unlikely cover Stoney, since if it can get quick enough to Stoney to be faster than airlifting to another chamber that would be just about its sole use, in which case it might as well be in Stoney itself. There are so many stories about why Stoney doesn't use its chamber anymore, and since I can't remember which is right (it was in their newsletter but I can't remember what it said) needless to say they can't use their chamber anymore, and either can't find someone to staff it, or can't afford to run/staff it anymore. Theres no point people saying they should - they don't, can't, or won't! And to the comment about the one in Chepstow, they obviously do have the facilities to run one - Stoney don't! If you don't like that, go and dive in the NDC. The regulations for hyperbaric treatment are there for a reason - even if you *could* put someone in and recompress them, i'd certainly want a specialist there if it was me and the support of a medical facility - I don't believe Stoney's is big enough to get many others inside, or can't let people in and out without decompressing the whole chamber - if thats the case, what if the person inside has a problem as they are recompressed? What would you do, very quickly decompress the chamber to get in the help they need,....? There are very good reasons that there are safety regulations! If every munchkin in the country who dives also had his/her own deco-chamber, I guarantee there'd be far more chamber-induced incidents than diving ones. David > And to the comment about the one in Chepstow, they obviously do have the > facilities to run one - Stoney don't! If you don't like that, go and > dive in the NDC. It was my understanding that whilst NDC have a chamber, they are only allowed to use it as a precaution if you've missed stops or on organised pot dives. I don't think they're allowed to use it to treat you if you have symptoms. Jason Signaturehttp://www.scuba-addict.co.uk/ for Aussie diving reports including Stradbroke Island, Terrigal, Jervis Bay and Portsea > It was my understanding that whilst NDC have a chamber, they are only > allowed to use it as a precaution if you've missed stops or on organised > pot dives. I don't think they're allowed to use it to treat you if you > have symptoms. Hehe - how useful! David > It was my understanding that whilst NDC have a chamber, they are only > allowed to use it as a precaution if you've missed stops or on organised > pot dives. I don't think they're allowed to use it to treat you if you > have symptoms. > > Jason Jason is more or less correct in what he says above. The only thing to add is that you will be treated if the condition is defined as immediately life threatening (let's not get into a discussion of this definition) In cases such as this you will be potted and the appropriate medical staff brought to Chepstow. Steve > And to the comment about the one in Chepstow, they obviously do have the > facilities to run one - Stoney don't! If you don't like that, go and dive > in the NDC. Sorry to hit a nerve but now you mention it as i live in Cardiff and so Chepstow is only 20mins away i think i will. .MarkW nospam to scuba to reply > > And to the comment about the one in Chepstow, they obviously do have the > > facilities to run one - Stoney don't! If you don't like that, go and dive > > in the NDC. > > Sorry to hit a nerve but now you mention it as i live in Cardiff and so > Chepstow is only 20mins away i think i will. No nerves to hit - just saying no point complaining that Chepstow have a chamber and Stoney don't when there's an obvious solution! That said, i'd be thrilled if everyone did go to Chepstow, leave Stoney nice and empty for us! :O) David > That said, i'd be thrilled if everyone did go to Chepstow, leave Stoney nice > and empty for us! :O) So you can sit in the car park on your own at 5am? ;-) Nick >> That said, i'd be thrilled if everyone did go to Chepstow, leave >> Stoney nice and empty for us! :O) > > So you can sit in the car park on your own at 5am? ;-) I got there at 7.05 am on Sunday and that won me second slot in the top car park - I just needed to be three cars earlier <sob>. We sighed and went for a hot chocolate and as we walked back for some kit the traffic control man was radioed to send two more down. Naturally we volunteered so we had at least one car from the club in the car park to act as a dumping ground. 61mins at 5C. Thats it. Now it all comes to bits and gets packed up to fly to the Cararies for the mod2 course in March. We were at the top of the centre car part the week before and climbing right back up there in a dry suit with a RB, 11Kgs of lead and an argon bottle and then going back again this week says something about my stupidity levels but explains why I was prepared to get up at 0320. nigelH > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leicestershire/3510981.stm > I hope the divers make a full recovery, from the brief report it [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Just my 2 pence worth. > Richard I've been training at Stoney recentley and as I understand it they do have chamber but no one to qualified to run it. In emergencies they fill it with 100% O2 and that's all they can do. The guy that used to be qualified left and they can't afford/find anyone to fill the post. I'm not to sure how accurate this is, it's what my instructor told me. What I do know is the reputation of Stoney Cove saftey procedures and staff is very good. From the very limited information I've heard of this incident it seems they were spot on. I hope the divers involved make a full recovery and keep on diving. safe diving Dan. The girl died and her boyfriend is in a serious condition in a chamber in Hull. The girl died last night of a lung expansion injury. May she RIP. > What I do know is the reputation of Stoney Cove saftey procedures and staff > is very good. From the very limited information I've heard of this incident [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > safe diving > Dan. > The girl died and her boyfriend is in a serious condition in a chamber in > Hull. > The girl died last night of a lung expansion injury. > > May she RIP. Oh thats terrible. Makes you realise how badly incidents can turn out, she was only in the 20m area (from what we were told when they were asking for search divers). My sympathy to all her friends and family David damn sorry to hear that sympothy to the friends and family > > The girl died and her boyfriend is in a serious condition in a chamber in > > Hull. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > David > The girl died and her boyfriend is in a serious condition in a chamber in > Hull. > The girl died last night of a lung expansion injury. > > May she RIP. Just to clarify a few things, it is not known at present what the girl unfortunatly died from, she did surface with a pulse thanks to the stirling efforts of all those involved. The postmortem was this morning and will provide more conclusive anwers. Please do not speculate about what did or didn't happen this is very distressing not only for the girl's family and friends but the 2 divers involved in her rescue. Mary |
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