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Scuba Forum / UK Scuba / January 2004Wing BCD Crunch Time
I'm upgrading from my first Scubapro BCD and need to make the right choice for the next few years. The Northern Diver Sea Eagle (?295) is in the right price range/features, but I have yet to see one anywhere. The Custom Divers TBK Sport Wing (?349) also looks okay and is just about in the price range I can currently afford. Anyone got comments on the above mentioned BCDs or similar products? It needs to handle single/twins and have integrated weights. When deflated, it should not hang like a badly made sack! I travel a lot, so I would like the option of an Aluminium back plate, but I can get one made in the workshop from aircraft grade ally otherwise. Okay, start shouting :-) TIA Graham > I'm upgrading from my first Scubapro BCD and need to make the right choice > for the next few years. The Northern Diver Sea Eagle (?295) is in the right [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > TIA > Graham Buddy Travelwing? > I'm upgrading from my first Scubapro BCD and need to make the right > choice for the next few years. The Northern Diver Sea Eagle (?295) is [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Okay, start shouting :-) Humph. Keep the Scubapro for diving a single and when you have a twinset put a proper twins rig together. My old Scubapro Club went to the Red Sea last year again and it works well for that. It's getting old but it likes going on holiday. If you try to get something to do both jobs it will do both badly and we will all laugh and say "Told you so!" A wing that is wide enough to work well with a twinset will wrap up a single and give you a wonderful horizontal trim on the surface just where you don't want it. A wing that is small enough for a single is tucked in behind a twinset and pushes at you as you inflate it. nigelH > If you try to get something to do both jobs it will do both badly and we > will all laugh and say "Told you so!" A wing that is wide enough to work [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > nigelH or get two wings and one back plate the harness remains the same and you can dive what you like. david > Nigel wrote >> If you try to get something to do both jobs it will do both badly >> > or get two wings and one back plate the harness remains the same and > you can dive what you like. But he's already got the BCD and modern BCDs are good kit and last for years. Don't throw his money away. Let him save it for the twinset. That will cost enough. I'm unconvinced about Single Tank Adapters on twinset plates. I don't see the point. The argument that is always thrown up is that it's nice to always dive the same rig but I have three and I like a bit of variety. I want to keep my hand in with skills and I'm not so old and decrepit yet that if the secondary isn't where it was last week I'm going to go all wobbly and drown. When the senility really begins to bite I'll have to go DIR and have people tell me where to put things. nigelH > I'm unconvinced about Single Tank Adapters on twinset > plates. I don't see the point. Trim. There is a lot more to DIR than where you hang your gear. Using a SS backplate you move a lot of your weight further up your body which makes it easer to keep horizontal in the water, which is a much better swimming position. This does not happen with an AL BP which is why they are only recommended (well actually thay are not really recommended at all) for tropical diving where it is assumed you are not going to be wearing much weight. Of course, this may not bother you, so if it doesn't... don't worry about it. It does bother me though, so my girlfriend is inheriting my Buddy Franken Wing (16kg buddy travelwing-a-like made from parts) and I have a nice new single tank wing which arrived yesterday. >Nigel wrote >> I'm unconvinced about Single Tank Adapters on twinset >> plates. I don't see the point. > > There is a lot more to DIR than where you hang your gear. That's what they all say. > Using a SS backplate you move a lot of your weight further up your > body Woo. Stop there. My plate weighs 2.4 kilos. The center of the plate isn't more than six inches above my waist so it's effect on my trim, compared with 2.4Kgs on the belt, is negligable. > which makes it easer to keep horizontal in the water, which is a > much better swimming position. So on the single I adjust this by where I put the cam band round the tank. I was taught this in OW. > This does not happen with an AL BP > which is why they are only recommended (well actually thay are not > really recommended at all) for tropical diving where it is assumed you > are not going to be wearing much weight. I thought the reason for a plate was as a jumping off point for the 5 point harness which allows the rig to be attached to you with nothing tight. Then it also does a weight distribution job to prevent a twinset twisting and digging into your back when out of the water by putting the force against the big bones of your pelvis not into the soft muscles of your back. Certainly that's what Bill Main seemed to think when he introduced it. > Of course, this may not bother you, so if it doesn't... don't worry > about it. It does bother me though, so my girlfriend is inheriting my > Buddy Franken Wing (16kg buddy travelwing-a-like made from parts) and > I have a nice new single tank wing which arrived yesterday. Now I am perplexed. Couldn't you fix the old wing on a plate? Don't tell me. It's a Halcyon? However you are clearly made of sterner stuff than I am. If I had ever said to one of the girls in my life "This isn't good enough for me. You can have it and I'm getting a new one" it would probably have cost me blood. nigelH <snip> > Woo. Stop there. My plate weighs 2.4 kilos. The center of the plate isn't > more than six inches above my waist so it's effect on my trim, compared > with 2.4Kgs on the belt, is negligable. So, having half your weight further up your back than your waist will not effect your trim? > So on the single I adjust this by where I put the cam band round the tank. > I was taught this in OW. That's another part of the equation, but with the Buddy I had the tank about as high as I could reasonably get it I was still not as horizontal as I wanted. And, your solution to this would be... > I thought the reason for a plate was as a jumping off point for the 5 point > harness which allows the rig to be attached to you with nothing tight. > Then it also does a weight distribution job to prevent a twinset twisting > and digging into your back when out of the water by putting the force > against the big bones of your pelvis not into the soft muscles of your back. > Certainly that's what Bill Main seemed to think when he introduced it. This may be(?), however we were dicussing the difference between AL and SS backplates, not the reason for having a BP in the first place. > Now I am perplexed. Couldn't you fix the old wing on a plate? I could have... and this will more than likely happen in the future. At the moment we have a SS BP and a backpack. I could have said f@ck off and buy your own, but since she has been borrowing it for ages, and likes it, I gave it too her. > Don't tell me. It's a Halcyon? Nope. http://www.blackart.com.au. >much better swimming position. This does not happen with an AL BP >which is why they are only recommended (well actually thay are not >really recommended at all) This is not true. Most if not all of the GUE people recommend that you use an Al. backplate and Al cylinders if diving with a wetsuit and 'doubles' in the sea. Pete  Signature____________________________________________________________________ Pete Young pete@antipope.org Remove dot. to reply "Just another crouton, floating on the bouillabaisse of life" > >much better swimming position. This does not happen with an AL BP > >which is why they are only recommended (well actually thay are not [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > you use an Al. backplate and Al cylinders if diving with a wetsuit > and 'doubles' in the sea. Do they? Who? Even if they do, they would also recommend a drysuit over a wetsuit for doubles, even in the tropics. The reason for all these recommendations is to have a balanced rig i.e. not overweighted and good trim. To quote, more or less, Andrew Georgitsis from my DIRF course "Having good trim is the root of DIR". >Do they? Who? Page 70 of Doing It Right by JJ Pete diving 'at' melbourne 'dot' me 'dot' uk > I'm upgrading from my first Scubapro BCD and need to make the right choice > for the next few years. The Northern Diver Sea Eagle (?295) is in the right [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > option of an Aluminium back plate, but I can get one made in the workshop > from aircraft grade ally otherwise. Personally I went for a Halcyon 40lb Eclipse (for single tank diving) and a 55lb Explorer wing (for twinset diving) which share a Halcyon stainless steel backplate and harness. It's not the cheapest set up on the planet (ie. you won't get much change from ?750!) but it surely is nice!!! :-) > Personally I went for a Halcyon 40lb Eclipse (for single tank diving) > and a 55lb Explorer wing (for twinset diving) which share a Halcyon > stainless steel backplate and harness. It's not the cheapest set up > on the planet (ie. you won't get much change from ?750!) but it > surely is nice!!! :-) Two wings, a backplate and a harness? ?750 ! Gulp ! I know I get ribbed for spending a lot on kit but at least I have a lot of kit to show for it. nigelH > > Personally I went for a Halcyon 40lb Eclipse (for single tank diving) > > and a 55lb Explorer wing (for twinset diving) which share a Halcyon [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I know I get ribbed for spending a lot on kit but > at least I have a lot of kit to show for it. Yeah, it is a bit 'minimal' (not to mention being tough on the pocket!) but it's a wonderful little setup to dive on! > Personally I went for a Halcyon 40lb Eclipse (for single tank diving) and a > 55lb Explorer wing (for twinset diving) which share a Halcyon stainless > steel backplate and harness. It's not the cheapest set up on the planet (ie. > you won't get much change from £750!) but it surely is nice!!! :-) I went for a Buddy Redwing - you can get them for about £130 brand spankers (I bought second-hand). One of Nigel's backplates is £40 delivered, odds and sods will still see you with change from £200. Maybe not to everyone's taste, but somehow I seem to have avoided dying the heinous death many predicted, and that one wing seems to have done everything I asked it to... Vic. > > Personally I went for a Halcyon 40lb Eclipse (for single tank diving) and a > > 55lb Explorer wing (for twinset diving) which share a Halcyon stainless [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > the heinous death many predicted, and that one wing seems to have done > everything I asked it to... You came back alive - that's always a result in my book! ;-) > > Personally I went for a Halcyon 40lb Eclipse (for single tank diving) and a > > 55lb Explorer wing (for twinset diving) which share a Halcyon stainless [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > spankers (I bought second-hand). One of Nigel's backplates is ?40 > delivered, odds and sods will still see you with change from ?200. I bought in to the halcycon stuff and got a 40lb + ally plate I love it.the reason I decided to fork out loads of dosh was the air bladder is a doughnut and should not trap air in one side. Then Dominic Humphries turns up with his tec wing also a doughnut type wing. Have a look here http://diveweb.oneandoneis2.com/wings.htm if I had a second chance would I buy a halcyon 40 eclipse or a set up like Dominic's. I think I would buy the halcyon, value for money must be the tec wing. when learning to dive a stab jacket type bcd it is easy to get it right and comfortable so you can then worry about drowning with out any distractions. Later when you can dive you probably own a bcd. the choice then is to go diving or go buying kit. Ive just booked two weeks in sipadan borneo. David > Then Dominic Humphries turns up with his tec wing also > a doughnut type wing. > Have a look here http://diveweb.oneandoneis2.com/wings.htm ..Which is exactly the same wing as the Redwing I mentioned earlier... The Tekwing is sold with an ABS backplate (very useful for when you go abroad, but not the best choice for domestic diving...) and the Redwing without. The Redwing is, of course, that bit cheaper. Vic. > if I had a second chance would I buy a halcyon 40 eclipse or a set up like Dominic's. > I think I would buy the halcyon, value for money must be the tec wing. I haven't recovered from ?750 for plate, harness and two wings. I can do a week off Northern Ireland including 'mix for that. The difference between Halcyon prices and real world prices can finance a lot of diving. > when learning to dive a stab jacket type bcd it is easy to get it > right and comfortable so you can then worry > about drowning with out any distractions. Later when you can dive you > probably own a bcd. the choice then is > to go diving or go buying kit. Ive just booked two weeks in sipadan > borneo. OK if you're into fish I suppose. I can't muster all that much interest. I'd rather dive the Volnay. 8-) nigelH > OK if you're into fish I suppose. I can't muster all that much interest. > I'd rather dive the Volnay. 8-) do you mean this pile of rust http://www.bris.ac.uk/Depts/Union/Diving/TheDiving/Locations/PK/pkdiving.html The Volnay was a 4609 tonne steamship laden with 18-pounder shrapnel shells which sank at Christmas 1917 after hitting a German mine. She lies in about 20m and can be found from the following transits, which should plonk you on the boilers - keep an eye on the echosounder: each to his own Ill take a good shrimp anyday. >> OK if you're into fish I suppose. I can't muster all that much >> interest. I'd rather dive the Volnay. 8-) [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > each to his own Ill take a good shrimp anyday. Sorry. Running joke. I rather expected somebody else to bite. nigelH > >> OK if you're into fish I suppose. I can't muster all that much > >> interest. I'd rather dive the Volnay. 8-) > > > > do you mean this pile of rust > Sorry. Running joke. > I rather expected somebody else to bite. nothing to be sorry about :-) |
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