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Passport to Cozumel??

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Nancy L. McMullen - 22 Apr 2004 05:16 GMT
Hi All,

I was recently told by a fellow scuba diver that now everyone (children included) now need passports to enter Cozumel from the U.S.  We've been going there since 1995 and have taken my stepdaughters with us, who are now 14 and 18.  We will be going again at the end of July for a week. We've never had a problem getting in or out of Cozumel with my stepdaughters' birth certificates; my husband and I have valid passports, however.

I went to the U.S. Department of State Bureau of Consular Affairs on Mexico website, and this is how it read:

ENTRY REQUIREMENTS: The Government of Mexico requires that all U.S. citizens present proof of citizenship and photo identification for entry into Mexico. While U.S. citizenship documents such as a certified copy of a U.S. birth certificate, a Naturalization Certificate, a Consular Report of Birth Abroad, or a Certificate of Citizenship are acceptable, the U.S. Embassy recommends traveling with a valid U.S. passport to avoid delays or misunderstandings. U.S. citizens have encountered difficulty boarding onward flights in Mexico without a passport. U.S. citizens boarding flights to Mexico should be prepared to present one of these documents as proof of U.S. citizenship, along with photo identification. Driver's permits, voter registration cards, affidavits and similar documents are not sufficient to prove citizenship for readmission into the United States.

I don't see anything in there that says passports are required...recommended, yes, but not required by law - and nothing about children being required to have them now.

Anyone have thoughts or updates on this and can reference their information?

I certainly hope things are still as it reads under the "Entry Requirements" or it will truly be a major pain trying to get passports for my stepdaughters as they live the majority of the year out of state, and you must apply in person for a passport.

Thanks a lot in advance for any and all help here!

Nancy

Scubagrl's Themes n' Dreams
http://www.scubagrl.net
Geoff - 22 Apr 2004 06:28 GMT
This seems to indicate Mexico is enforcing ID requirements to ensure
that anyone returning to the US will have sufficient ID to re-enter
and not be sent back to Mexico by US immigration.

Talk to your travel agent for current requirements.  Sometimes the web
information is not current.  Call your local office of US Bureau of
Immigration and ask them if the travel agency seems at all unsure.

It was my understanding that minor children traveling with their
passported parents are not required to have individual passports.  A
good form of ID like a certified birth certificate and picture ID of
the child would be at least minimum documentation to bring with you.

Perhaps someone with children who has traveled recently to Cozumel
will have more advice.
rwjg40 - 22 Apr 2004 18:08 GMT
> This seems to indicate Mexico is enforcing ID requirements to ensure
> that anyone returning to the US will have sufficient ID to re-enter
> and not be sent back to Mexico by US immigration.

It's not the Mexican government, it's the airline.  They want to make
sure that if they take you out of the country, they can get you back
in.  I am flying to Cozumel in May, and I just a minute ago spoke with a
Continental agent, who told me that the requirements for proof of
citizenship are the same as they were for my trip last year.  I traveled
there last May with my wife and daughter; none of us have passports, but
we have photo ID and certified birth certs. We had no prob.

Don' worry, be happy...

Gordon in Austin
Greg Mossman - 23 Apr 2004 01:30 GMT
> It's not the Mexican government, it's the airline.  They want to make
> sure that if they take you out of the country, they can get you back
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> there last May with my wife and daughter; none of us have passports, but
> we have photo ID and certified birth certs. We had no prob.

I screwed up a flight to Canada by forgetting my birth certificate or
passport.  I tried to talk the airline into letting me take my chances as I
was sure I could talk the friendly Canadians into letting me into their
country without proper ID, but no go.  They didn't want to be responsible
for me in case I was rejected at immigration.
H. Huntzinger - 22 Apr 2004 12:49 GMT
> Hi All,
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Anyone have thoughts or updates on this and can reference their information?

Yes:  no matter what the hassles *might* be in the USA to get them
passports, go get them their passports today.  

Afterall, it is inevitable that the rules are going to change.

Afterall, since the one is clearly too young to drive, it is also a very
easy and very cheap way of getting them a "Government Issue Photo ID".

> I certainly hope things are still as it reads under the "Entry Requirements"
> or it will truly be a major pain trying to get passports for my stepdaughters
> as they live the majority of the year out of state, and you must apply in
> person for a passport.

Incorrect.

First, only Minors are required to appear in person, and only if they're
under age 14, so that requirement doesn't appear to even apply to you
anyway.

Second, whatever you believe the hassle might be, compare it to what you
think the hassle would be of a trashed vacation on the Mexico end, or on
the returning-to-USA internment end.  A passport to prevent these
inconveniences is the world's cheapest insurance...less than $10/year!

Third, I personally find it _very_ hard to believe that appearing in
person can even be claimed to be a "major pain".  There are so many
places you can go to apply that I find it hard to believe that one
cannot be nearby.  I've done it twice and both times found it painless.  
IMO, the only time that you're generally going to find crowds and
hassles is when you wait until the last minute and have to go to one of
the 48-hour turnaround service centers.

Fourth, their living out of state for most of the year shouldn't be an
issue at all.

> Thanks a lot in advance for any and all help here!

Since your trip is in July, you have more than 8 weeks of leadtime, so
by acting now, you can do this on the "Routine" priority schedule, so it
will cost less than $100 per applicant, including the photo costs.  

Many camera stores and AAA club stores offer passport photos for $10 or
so, while you wait.  

Get a copy of the form before you go and fill it out at home.  Not only
does this save time, but it prevents embarassment when you don't know
minutia such as your parents' _locations_ of birth, etc.

All the info you need can be found from this webpage:

http://travel.state.gov/passport_services.html


Just Do It.  

-hh
HW \ - 22 Apr 2004 13:30 GMT
>Yes:  no matter what the hassles *might* be in the USA to get them
>passports, go get them their passports today.  

I've done a lot of traveling and cannot imagine leaving the USA
without a passport.

Anyone who considers it a "hassle" to get a passport - really doesn't
know what a hassle is until they get into trouble in a foreign country
without a passport.

By the way... Hugh Huntzinger... any updates on Tiara (Cayman Brac)?
We're thinking of a few nights there later in the year.
Mostly interested in hotel condition, food and bar.

-HW "Skip" Weldon
Columbia, SC
Charlie Hammond - 22 Apr 2004 16:45 GMT
>Anyone who considers it a "hassle" to get a passport - really doesn't
>know what a hassle is until they get into trouble in a foreign country
>without a passport.

Agreed.  From time to time the SCUBA and REC.TRAVEL newsgroups post
horror stories of what can happen and how quickly and easily a vacation
can be ruined.  GET A PASSPORT.  

Second point -- Neither the USA government, nor the airlines, nor any
travel agent establishes the "official" requirement for entry by a USA
citizen/resident into another sovereign country.  The best and most up
to date information can be obtained by calling the country's embasy or
consolate.  

Third point -- Also consider the requirement for re-entry into the USA.

If you travel internationally, your passport is your friend.
Don't leave home without it!  And if you don't have one, don't
expect sympathy from me when things go wrong.

Signature

     Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USA
         (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)
     All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.

Drew M. Mooney - 13 Jul 2004 13:49 GMT
> If you travel internationally, your passport is your friend.
> Don't leave home without it!  And if you don't have one, don't
> expect sympathy from me when things go wrong.

Sounds like the old 'and if you break your leg falling off that <whatever>
don't come running to me' thing our parents used to screach at us....
Charlie Hammond - 13 Jul 2004 15:06 GMT
>> If you travel internationally, your passport is your friend.
>> Don't leave home without it!  And if you don't have one, don't
>> expect sympathy from me when things go wrong.
>>
>Sounds like the old 'and if you break your leg falling off that <whatever>
>don't come running to me' thing our parents used to screach at us....

Perhaps, but customs and immigration officers tend to be less sypathetic
than most parents.

Signature

     Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USA
         (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)
     All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.

rwjg40 - 13 Jul 2004 15:30 GMT
> >> If you travel internationally, your passport is your friend.
> >> Don't leave home without it!  And if you don't have one, don't
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Perhaps, but customs and immigration officers tend to be less sypathetic
> than most parents.

This is an old thread, isn't it?  You don't need a passport to go to
Cozumel from the U.S., just an official birth cert and photo ID.

Gordon in Austin
Charlie Hammond - 13 Jul 2004 17:33 GMT
>                   ... You don't need a passport to go to
>Cozumel from the U.S., just an official birth cert and photo ID.

The http://travel.state.gov/foreignentryreaus.html site says
"Proof of citizenship and photo ID". (a/o today, Tuesday, 2004-JUL-13)
PLEASE read the entire site for various details.

A passport will provide this.  

An "official birth certificate" usualy will suffice for proof of citizenship;
a drivers license usualy will suffice for photo ID.  

Note the use of the word "usually".  
A passport is highly desirable when things turn "unusual".

I consider it foolish to travel internationally without a passport.
Other's opinions differ.

Signature

     Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USA
         (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)
     All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.

Dillon Pyron - 13 Jul 2004 18:50 GMT
>>                   ... You don't need a passport to go to
>>Cozumel from the U.S., just an official birth cert and photo ID.
>
>The http://travel.state.gov/foreignentryreaus.html site says
>"Proof of citizenship and photo ID". (a/o today, Tuesday, 2004-JUL-13)
>PLEASE read the entire site for various details.

The Bearue of Citizenship and Immigration Services (our old friend
INS) is about to issue an NPRM that will require a passport for exit
from the US.  I don't know if it will apply to airlines, but it will
definitely apply to cruise ships.

>A passport will provide this.  
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>Note the use of the word "usually".  
>A passport is highly desirable when things turn "unusual".

Although stamped and notarized, my wife's "official birth certificate"
lacks the raised seal.  It was good enough to get her a passport
(after about 12 weeks), but it's not good enough for entry.

>I consider it foolish to travel internationally without a passport.
>Other's opinions differ.

I personally think anyone who travels should have a passport.  First,
it makes getting past TSA easier and it allows you to get that wild
hair and take that $99 rt to Paris (which I've actually seen).

Signature

dillon

When I was a kid, I thought the angel's name was Hark
and the horse's name was Bob.

Dillon Pyron - 13 Jul 2004 19:01 GMT
>>                   ... You don't need a passport to go to
>>Cozumel from the U.S., just an official birth cert and photo ID.
>
>The http://travel.state.gov/foreignentryreaus.html site says
>"Proof of citizenship and photo ID". (a/o today, Tuesday, 2004-JUL-13)
>PLEASE read the entire site for various details.

Try this instead:
http://travel.state.gov/foreignentryreqs.html

From the site: (emphasis mine)

PASSPORTS: U.S. citizens who travel to a country where a valid U.S.
passport is not required will need documentary evidence of their U.S.
citizenship and identity. Proof of U.S. citizenship includes an
expired U.S. passport, a certified (original) birth certificate,
Certificate of Naturalization, Certificate of Citizenship, or Report
of Birth Abroad of a Citizen of the United States. To prove identity,
a valid driver’s license or government identification card are
acceptable provided they identify you by physical description or
photograph. However, for travel overseas and to facilitate reentry
into the U.S., a valid U.S. passport is the best documentation
                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
available and unquestionably proves your U.S. citizenship.

>A passport will provide this.  
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>I consider it foolish to travel internationally without a passport.
>Other's opinions differ.

Signature

dillon

When I was a kid, I thought the angel's name was Hark
and the horse's name was Bob.

rwjg40 - 13 Jul 2004 22:28 GMT
> I consider it foolish to travel internationally without a passport.
> Other's opinions differ.

Be that as it may, it is not necessary, or even better, as far as I can
see, to have a passport for going to Cozumel.  I've done it many times
with birth cert and ID and never have I had the slightest trouble.  I'd
hazard a guess that more folks do it that way than by passport, judging
from what I've seen in line in the Cozumel airport.

Gordon in Austin
Drew M. Mooney - 14 Jul 2004 15:27 GMT
Hey Charlie, I wasn't attacking you man! Just making a funny...

-drew-

> >> If you travel internationally, your passport is your friend.
> >> Don't leave home without it!  And if you don't have one, don't
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Perhaps, but customs and immigration officers tend to be less sypathetic
> than most parents.
Charlie Hammond - 14 Jul 2004 17:56 GMT
>Hey Charlie, I wasn't attacking you man! Just making a funny...

Drew -- My responce was also intended to be taken lightly.

>> In article <WSQIc.404$nH.15@fe07.usenetserver.com>, "Drew M. Mooney"
><drew.mooney@pwhome.com> writes:
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>> Perhaps, but customs and immigration officers tend to be less sypathetic
>> than most parents.

Signature

     Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USA
         (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)
     All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.

Greg Mossman - 22 Apr 2004 17:48 GMT
> I've done a lot of traveling and cannot imagine leaving the USA
> without a passport.

I've done a lot of traveling outside the USA without my passport, so I can
certainly imagine it.

> Anyone who considers it a "hassle" to get a passport - really doesn't
> know what a hassle is until they get into trouble in a foreign country
> without a passport.

Then don't get into trouble, that's what I suggest.  Passports are easy to
obtain and easy to carry so there's really no reason not to have one.  But
your concerns are exaggerated, at least with respect to Americans in Mexico.
The only danger nowadays is trouble getting back into the U.S., especially
if one appears hispanic or middle-eastern.

I went to Grand Cayman last year without a passport, only because I realized
I couldn't find it one day before the trip.  No one seemed put off by my use
of a birth certificate and drivers license.  I rushed to get a new passport
before I left for Bonaire but felt foolish paying the expedited fee when I
later found out I could have gone without one.  I've lived my whole life
within a few hours drive of either the Mexican or Canadian borders and never
felt the need to bring a passport for a weekend trip.  Heck, when I was
really young and foolish, I went to Mexico without any identification at
all, mainly so I could honestly claim to the customs inspector that I didn't
have my ID when he questioned whether I was old enough to bring the booze
back into the U.S.  It worked.

I've done a lot of driving around Mexico and I've been pulled over plenty of
times by the friendly local policia.  I've been stopped at countless
"narcotrafico" checkpoints and been harrassed by lots of local and federal
cops and once by a couple marines on beach patrol looking for a few bucks.
No one ever asked for my passport.  The only time I ever worried about lack
of documentation was the time I took the train down to Mexico City and the
train left before the immigration office opened leaving me with no tourist
card.  That became a worry when I got sick and decided to fly back instead
and I was asked for my tourist card at the airport.  An hour wait in some
office and a few forms solved that problem - the lack of a passport was
never an issue and I didn't even have to offer a bribe.
Charlie Hammond - 22 Apr 2004 20:05 GMT
>your concerns are exaggerated, at least with respect to Americans in Mexico.
>The only danger nowadays is trouble getting back into the U.S., especially
>if one appears hispanic or middle-eastern.

That doesn't sould like an exaggerated concern to me!?

>                                                  ...  Heck, when I was
>really young and foolish, I went to Mexico without any identification at
>all, mainly so I could honestly claim to the customs inspector that I didn't
>have my ID when he questioned whether I was old enough to bring the booze
>back into the U.S.  It worked.

Some might consider you still foolish to admit this in a public forum.

>                               ...  The only time I ever worried about lack
>of documentation was the time I took the train down to Mexico City and the
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>office and a few forms solved that problem - the lack of a passport was
>never an issue and I didn't even have to offer a bribe.

About 2-3 years ago my wife worked in Mexico City for about six months.
Based on the experiences that she and her colleagues (US and Mexica
citizens) reported, I find it nearly unbelievable that you could get
ANYthing "offical" done without, perhaps not a "bribe", but, shall we
say an "unoffical payment".  This is the accepted norm in much or
Latin America, probably in much of the world.  You are not "bribing" the
official to do something "wrong"; just facilitating the flow of paperwork.
It should not be considered dishonest.

Signature

     Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USA
         (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)
     All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.

Dillon Pyron - 22 Apr 2004 21:00 GMT
<snip>

>>                               ...  The only time I ever worried about lack
>>of documentation was the time I took the train down to Mexico City and the
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>official to do something "wrong"; just facilitating the flow of paperwork.
>It should not be considered dishonest.

They are known as facilitation fees to the IRS.  Yes, there is a space
on the corporate tax return for "fees paid to foreign officials".

Signature

dillon

When I was a kid, I thought the angel's name was Hark
and the horse's name was Bob.

Greg Mossman - 22 Apr 2004 22:27 GMT
> >your concerns are exaggerated, at least with respect to Americans in Mexico.
> >The only danger nowadays is trouble getting back into the U.S., especially
> >if one appears hispanic or middle-eastern.
>
> That doesn't sould like an exaggerated concern to me!?

It's not.  INS isn't really interested in keeping real Americans out of the
country.  Most Americans can eventually prove who they are.

> Some might consider you still foolish to admit this in a public forum.

Why?  It would have been foolish were I still stuck in Mexico 17 years
later.  But, like I said, it worked.  Two cheap bottles of tequila and no
fake ID necessary.

> About 2-3 years ago my wife worked in Mexico City for about six months.
> Based on the experiences that she and her colleagues (US and Mexica
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> official to do something "wrong"; just facilitating the flow of paperwork.
> It should not be considered dishonest.

Nope, I was just testing the system.  It took me 15 minutes watching the
receptionist finish doing her nails before she would even call "el jefe".  A
few bucks to her would have put her nails on hold.  El jefe likewise made me
wait a long time and I'm sure a bribe would have facilitated his progress as
well.  But I was in no hurry, plus I was obviously sick, so whether they
actually pitied me or just didn't want to catch whatever I had, they got me
out of there soon enough.  Also, I was fluent in Spanish at the time, a
talent which I've unfortunately lost over the years.  I'm sure that helped a
bit.
Dillon Pyron - 23 Apr 2004 04:25 GMT
>> >your concerns are exaggerated, at least with respect to Americans in
>Mexico.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>> Some might consider you still foolish to admit this in a public forum.

Statute of limitations has long since run.  Why not confess?  Besides,
it was actually germane to the thread (what a shocker)

>Why?  It would have been foolish were I still stuck in Mexico 17 years
>later.  But, like I said, it worked.  Two cheap bottles of tequila and no
>fake ID necessary.

Two bottles of cheap tequila?  I hope by now you've learned that if
you're going to break the law, break it big  :-)

>> About 2-3 years ago my wife worked in Mexico City for about six months.
>> Based on the experiences that she and her colleagues (US and Mexica
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>talent which I've unfortunately lost over the years.  I'm sure that helped a
>bit.

Knowing the local language is a particularly useful "skill".  I
learned a while back that sometimes it's to your advantage to act dumb
and listen up.

Signature

dillon

When I was a kid, I thought the angel's name was Hark
and the horse's name was Bob.

Greg Mossman - 23 Apr 2004 06:28 GMT
> Two bottles of cheap tequila?  I hope by now you've learned that if
> you're going to break the law, break it big  :-)

No, no.  Two liters is the legal limit and I was walking through.  Not much
chance of sneaking anything more.

The only time I ever brought back more than the legal limit was the time we
stayed in Ensenada and the hotel charged us extra since we were four in the
room (two couples) instead of two.  Since we had no credit card on deposit,
we broke open the minibar and emptied the contents.  This happened to be the
treasure trove of minibars, containing over 60 mini bottles of miscellaneous
booze.  I'm certain that our haul exceeded the 2 liter limit, but ya gotta
lie sometimes.

And yes, the statute of limitations better be expired.  We didn't kill
anyone for godssake.  Again, I was under 21 and plead youthful exuberance as
the cause.

> Knowing the local language is a particularly useful "skill".  I
> learned a while back that sometimes it's to your advantage to act dumb
> and listen up.

Heck yeah.  I'm gonna start my online Thai lessons six months before my
upcoming trip in December.  Those unsuspecting Thais won't know what hit
them.
Jer - 23 Apr 2004 04:34 GMT
>>your concerns are exaggerated, at least with respect to Americans in Mexico.
>>The only danger nowadays is trouble getting back into the U.S., especially
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> official to do something "wrong"; just facilitating the flow of paperwork.
> It should not be considered dishonest.

It is my understanding a notario mellows out quite a bit after they've
made their first ten million pesos.

Signature

jer  email reply - I am not a 'ten'  ICQ = 35253273
"All that we do is touched with ocean, yet we remain on the shore of
what we know."  -- Richard Wilbur

Dillon Pyron - 22 Apr 2004 17:43 GMT
>> Hi All,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>> problem getting in or out of Cozumel with my stepdaughters' birth
>> certificates; my husband and I have valid passports, however.

<snip>

>> I certainly hope things are still as it reads under the "Entry Requirements"
>> or it will truly be a major pain trying to get passports for my stepdaughters
>> as they live the majority of the year out of state, and you must apply in
>> person for a passport.

Please note that Mexico requires a notarized letter for permission to
be with one parent if they are not accompanied by both.  Since it
sounds like you are not the custodial parent, I encourage you to
contact the nearest Mexican consulate and get this and other entry
questions answered.

>Incorrect.
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>the returning-to-USA internment end.  A passport to prevent these
>inconveniences is the world's cheapest insurance...less than $10/year!

A passport opens the whole world of travel.  We always take our
passports to Hawai'i, just in case we get the bug to go on to Fiji or
Tahiti.  Why not have it?

>Third, I personally find it _very_ hard to believe that appearing in
>person can even be claimed to be a "major pain".  There are so many
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>hassles is when you wait until the last minute and have to go to one of
>the 48-hour turnaround service centers.

Passports are worth every penny.  I won't go anywhere without them.
They are great for identification at the airport.  The TSA drones know
exactly where to look for the information on a passport, as opposed to
having to study your out of state driver's license for your name and
picture.  The less time I have to deal with them the better.

My neice recently got her passport for a trip to Europe this summer.
They live in a city of 1500 and she had no problems getting the
passport.  It took about 3 weeks.

>Fourth, their living out of state for most of the year shouldn't be an
>issue at all.
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
>-hh

Signature

dillon

When I was a kid, I thought the angel's name was Hark
and the horse's name was Bob.

Charlie Hammond - 22 Apr 2004 19:54 GMT
>Please note that Mexico requires a notarized letter for permission to
>be with one parent if they are not accompanied by both.  Since it
>sounds like you are not the custodial parent, I encourage you to
>contact the nearest Mexican consulate and get this and other entry
>questions answered.

An excellent point.  

Mexico is not the only country that has such requirements.
I some cases it is a good idea to have such a notarized document
whenever a minor child is traveling without both parents accompanying.
Even for domestic travel.  This is also useful for a minor child
traveling with someone who is NOT his/her parent -- e.g. a reltive
or "friend of the family".  Such a document can also give the accompanying
person authority to authorize emergency medical care.

This is an area where it is good to consult an attorney who is
knowledgable in this area.

Signature

     Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USA
         (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)
     All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.

Jer - 23 Apr 2004 04:38 GMT
[....]

> Passports are worth every penny.  I won't go anywhere without them.
> They are great for identification at the airport.  The TSA drones know
> exactly where to look for the information on a passport, as opposed to
> having to study your out of state driver's license for your name and
> picture.  The less time I have to deal with them the better.

Sans a driver's license, a passport is the only photo ID I own, and use
it regularly for domestic and foreign travel.

[....]

Signature

jer  email reply - I am not a 'ten'  ICQ = 35253273
"All that we do is touched with ocean, yet we remain on the shore of
what we know."  -- Richard Wilbur

Charlie Hammond - 26 Apr 2004 15:13 GMT
>Sans a driver's license, a passport is the only photo ID I own, and use
>it regularly for domestic and foreign travel.

Most if not all USA state departments of motor vehicles (which may be know
by slightly different names in various states) will issue a non-driver's
license photo ID.  Costs and required proofs of identity will vary.
Check with your state.

It can be a lot easier to carry and use such a card for USA domestic ID
purpose, rather than a passport.  It may also be easier to replace
such an ID if lost.

Signature

     Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USA
         (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)
     All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.

Jer - 26 Apr 2004 15:30 GMT
>>Sans a driver's license, a passport is the only photo ID I own, and use
>>it regularly for domestic and foreign travel.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> purpose, rather than a passport.  It may also be easier to replace
> such an ID if lost.

All good points, but outside of traveling, I so rarely need any ID, it's
not been a problem.  It helps to understand that I operate my life under
the radar of most issues that plague others - I don't really do anything
that requires a photo ID on a regular basis.  Nobody argues with cash,
not even a cabbie.

Signature

jer  email reply - I am not a 'ten'  ICQ = 35253273
"All that we do is touched with ocean, yet we remain on the shore of
what we know."  -- Richard Wilbur

Greg Mossman - 26 Apr 2004 23:57 GMT
> All good points, but outside of traveling, I so rarely need any ID, it's
> not been a problem.  It helps to understand that I operate my life under
> the radar of most issues that plague others - I don't really do anything
> that requires a photo ID on a regular basis.  Nobody argues with cash,
> not even a cabbie.

Using a credit card rarely plagues me.  It just ain't that hard to pull the
ID out of my wallet if they want to see it.  And I get air miles.
Jer - 27 Apr 2004 14:22 GMT
>>All good points, but outside of traveling, I so rarely need any ID, it's
>>not been a problem.  It helps to understand that I operate my life under
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Using a credit card rarely plagues me.  It just ain't that hard to pull the
> ID out of my wallet if they want to see it.  And I get air miles.

Uh uh, the air miles scam - you got me there.  :)

Signature

jer  email reply - I am not a 'ten'  ICQ = 35253273
"All that we do is touched with ocean, yet we remain on the shore of
what we know."  -- Richard Wilbur

Dillon Pyron - 26 Apr 2004 15:31 GMT
>>Sans a driver's license, a passport is the only photo ID I own, and use
>>it regularly for domestic and foreign travel.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>purpose, rather than a passport.  It may also be easier to replace
>such an ID if lost.

I once had a TSA agent spend a good two minutes looking at my out fo
state DL, looking for the pertinent data.

Of course, I did qualify the above statment by saying he was TSA.

Signature

dillon

When I was a kid, I thought the angel's name was Hark
and the horse's name was Bob.

H. Huntzinger - 28 Apr 2004 12:37 GMT
> Most if not all USA state departments of motor vehicles (which may be know
> by slightly different names in various states) will issue a non-driver's
> license photo ID.  Costs and required proofs of identity will vary.

In New Jersey, they're in the process of going to a new "secure" digital
ID/Licence and have gone to rediculous extremes in their requirements to
prove who you are in order to get one.

Bottom line is that in NJ, we pretty much need a Passport today to have
enough "points" in NJ's crazy new system in order to get merely the
State ID/Licence.  

Plus your Birth Certificate.  

Plus a Utility Bill.

-hh
Charlie Hammond - 28 Apr 2004 16:51 GMT
>> Most if not all USA state departments of motor vehicles (which may be know
>> by slightly different names in various states) will issue a non-driver's
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
>Plus a Utility Bill.

An utility bill?  An [explative delted] UTILITY bill???!!!

Kinda makes one wonder what you'll have to go through the next
time you sign up for Electric, Gas or Water service in a new home.

I surrender.  The terrorist HAVE won.

Signature

     Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USA
         (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)
     All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.

Joe English - 29 Apr 2004 02:05 GMT
>>>Most if not all USA state departments of motor vehicles (which may be know
>>>by slightly different names in various states) will issue a non-driver's
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> An utility bill?  An [explative delted] UTILITY bill???!!!

You gave up long before the utility bill!
> Kinda makes one wonder what you'll have to go through the next
> time you sign up for Electric, Gas or Water service in a new home.
>
> I surrender.  The terrorist HAVE won.
Jer - 29 Apr 2004 09:18 GMT
>>Most if not all USA state departments of motor vehicles (which may be know
>>by slightly different names in various states) will issue a non-driver's
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> -hh

What th...?  You mean you gotta be a adult resident to get a NJ state
ID?  Well I dee-clare!!

Signature

jer  email reply - I am not a 'ten'  ICQ = 35253273
"All that we do is touched with ocean, yet we remain on the shore of
what we know."  -- Richard Wilbur

Geoff - 22 Apr 2004 17:51 GMT
>Third, I personally find it _very_ hard to believe that appearing in
>person can even be claimed to be a "major pain".

It is if they don't live with that parent and the ex is resistant to
doing this for the sake of the other.
Charlie Hammond - 22 Apr 2004 20:35 GMT
>>Third, I personally find it _very_ hard to believe that appearing in
>>person can even be claimed to be a "major pain".
>
>It is if they don't live with that parent and the ex is resistant to
>doing this for the sake of the other.

I hope I am overreacting to this, but what you say makes it sound like
the non-custodial parent is trying to take the child out of the country
without the custodial parent's permission.  See a lawyer.  Soon.
If you do this you could EASILY get into a situation where having a
passport or not is simply no longer the important issue.

Signature

     Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USA
         (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)
     All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.

Geoff - 23 Apr 2004 07:32 GMT
>>>Third, I personally find it _very_ hard to believe that appearing in
>>>person can even be claimed to be a "major pain".
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>If you do this you could EASILY get into a situation where having a
>passport or not is simply no longer the important issue.

I'm sure you are overreacting to it. If you will reread the OP's post
you will see she is trying to take the step kids on vacation with them
to Cozumel and is concerned about the US Dept. of State's description
that "The Government of Mexico requires...", etc.  It's not
inconceivable that her spouse's ex-wife might be resistant to taking
the kids down to the post office to get pix and forms for passports so
they can enjoy their vacation.  All this is speculation.
Jess Englewood - 22 Apr 2004 22:19 GMT
> > I certainly hope things are still as it reads under the "Entry Requirements"
> > or it will truly be a major pain trying to get passports for my stepdaughters
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> First, only Minors are required to appear in person, and only if they're
> under age 14,

Having been thru all this over the years with my oldest, and recently..after
9/11, with my youngest child, I know that someone applying for a passport
must appear in person if:
1) you are under 17 years old (under 14 just has additional requirements)
2) this is your first passport, regardless of age
3) you are not in possession of your previous passport, regardless of age
4) your previous passport expired xx years ago (don't remember the exact
   term)
5) you have a name change you can't prove (or something like that)
6) you previous passport was issued before your 17th birthday, regardless
   of your current age

Basically the only people who can apply without appearing are those whose
old passports were issued as adults, those who still have their passports in
possession and those who haven't had any name changes they are unable to
document.

Both her kids have to appear in person.
Drew M. Mooney - 13 Jul 2004 13:47 GMT
Be advised, depending on the age of your child, passport expiration could be
much less than 10 years...apparently they expire in about as much time it
takes for their identifying photograph to become useless. I think for very
young children [2-5?] it's 2 year expiry. [I know because I was shocked to
see that my daughter's passport expired, and it hasn't been anywhere near 10
years since we got it...]

This plays hell with your $10/year math, but otherwise I agree with
everything you say.

-drew-

> > Hi All,
> >
[quoted text clipped - 64 lines]
>
> -hh
Gat'rBait - 14 Jul 2004 04:00 GMT
We needed passports in 2001 when we went to Coz

JOhn ><>

> Be advised, depending on the age of your child, passport expiration could be
> much less than 10 years...apparently they expire in about as much time it
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> " H. Huntzinger" <{NOSPAM-rm_to_reply}rec-scuba@huntzinger.com> wrote in
> message

news:{NOSPAM-rm_to_reply}rec-scuba-92F12E.07492722042004@news-east.ash.giganews.com...

> > > Hi All,
> > >
[quoted text clipped - 71 lines]
> >
> > -hh
Dillon Pyron - 14 Jul 2004 20:27 GMT
>We needed passports in 2001 when we went to Coz

Last time we visited CZM (June of 2003) not having passports was not a
problem.  We had ours of course, but there didn't seem to be any
problem for people with other proofs of citizenship.

All of the preceeding, of course, only applies to US nationals.  I
believe the same also applies to Canadians, but it's best to check
first.

As I and others have posted, it never hurts to have a passport.  And
an envelope stuff with $1000 each of Euros, Yen and a few other
currencies.  There's no telling when you may need to leave the country
"in a hurry".

>JOhn ><>
>
[quoted text clipped - 94 lines]
>> >
>> > -hh

Signature

dillon

When I was a kid, I thought the angel's name was Hark
and the horse's name was Bob.

Greg Mossman - 16 Jul 2004 23:40 GMT
> As I and others have posted, it never hurts to have a passport.  And
> an envelope stuff with $1000 each of Euros, Yen and a few other
> currencies.  There's no telling when you may need to leave the country
> "in a hurry".

You've got to be kidding.  U.S. dollars are accepted everywhere.
Jer - 17 Jul 2004 14:34 GMT
>>As I and others have posted, it never hurts to have a passport.  And
>>an envelope stuff with $1000 each of Euros, Yen and a few other
>>currencies.  There's no telling when you may need to leave the country
>>"in a hurry".
>
> You've got to be kidding.  U.S. dollars are accepted everywhere.

That depends on whether the receiver agrees to take the hit on the
exchange rate and fee.  Some won't, so I always have a supply of the
local currency.

Signature

jer  email reply - I am not a 'ten'
"All that we do is touched with ocean, yet we remain on the shore of
what we know."  -- Richard Wilbur

Greg Mossman - 17 Jul 2004 20:42 GMT
> That depends on whether the receiver agrees to take the hit on the
> exchange rate and fee.  Some won't, so I always have a supply of the
> local currency.

By keeping a supply of local currency, your supply is constantly subject to
the whims devaluation.  Much better to change it as you need it, or simply
use U.S. dollars and negotiate well so neither of you take a hit.  Of course
if your "supply" is a few hundred bucks worth and you're complaining about a
hit of a couple bucks, then we obviously aren't talking about the same
thing.
Jer - 17 Jul 2004 21:25 GMT
>>That depends on whether the receiver agrees to take the hit on the
>>exchange rate and fee.  Some won't, so I always have a supply of the
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> hit of a couple bucks, then we obviously aren't talking about the same
> thing.

I could never expect my employees to exchange their cash pay, despite
minor changes in devaluations.  My supply is significantly more than a
few hundred whatevers and typically kept in a local bank.  Yes, we're
talking apples and oranges here - tourists buying trinkets and food or
paying for someone's livelihood are two different kettles of fish.
Sorry, I didn't intend to confuse anyone.

Signature

jer  email reply - I am not a 'ten'
"All that we do is touched with ocean, yet we remain on the shore of
what we know."  -- Richard Wilbur

Joe English - 22 Apr 2004 13:01 GMT
> Hi All,
>  
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
> http://www.scubagrl.net
>  
Passports not required
Jer - 22 Apr 2004 13:45 GMT
> Hi All,
>  
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
> http://www.scubagrl.net
>  

Nancy, it's not required, but please get all the kids a passport.
Nobody wants to stand in line behind a family digging through a bagfull
of vacation trinkets, half-eaten sandwiches and loose papers with jelly
stains trying to convince this week's desk clerk that the oldest one
isn't the son of OBL.  One day, INS may get a clue and have a queue for
non-passport returnees only.  You can take all afternoon if you want
while the rest of the world breezes through to catch their connecting
flights.

Signature

jer  email reply - I am not a 'ten'  ICQ = 35253273
"All that we do is touched with ocean, yet we remain on the shore of
what we know."  -- Richard Wilbur

Jess Englewood - 22 Apr 2004 22:30 GMT
> Nancy, it's not required, but please get all the kids a passport.
> Nobody wants to stand in line behind a family digging through a bagfull
> of vacation trinkets, half-eaten sandwiches and loose papers with jelly
> stains trying to convince this week's desk clerk that the oldest one
> isn't the son of OBL.

Good points. Happened to us once returning thru Tijuana/San Diego. Had gone
over to visit relatives and show off our new baby girl. When coming back we
had a major hassle because we did not have a passport for the baby. Their
concern was that we had bought, taken, borrowed, whatever, a Mexican baby
and were bringing her back illegally. The problem was a passport would have
a picture and the birth cert obviously didn't. Took a while to get thru. The
Tijuana crossing was far more strigent than the Juarez crossing we were used
to.

I imagine the people behind us were plain tired of hearing La Bomba sang
1500 times by the local kids, while waiting for us to get cleared thru.
Luckily they were all quite nice about it. This was 25+ years ago but I
learned then to be prepared not only for ourselves but for the others around
us.
Geoff - 22 Apr 2004 17:59 GMT
>... my stepdaughters with us, who are now 14 and 18.

The minor can travel without passport if accompanied by the custodial
parent.  The 18 year old will be required to have a passport to
reenter the US.

Post-9/11 you know.  Them terrorists can disguise themselves as pretty
18 year old girls to get past those brave eagle-eyed INS dudes.
Greg Mossman - 22 Apr 2004 19:18 GMT
> The 18 year old will be required to have a passport to
> reenter the US.

Bullshit.
Dillon Pyron - 22 Apr 2004 21:04 GMT
>> The 18 year old will be required to have a passport to
>> reenter the US.
>
>Bullshit.

Agreed.  Last trip to Cozumel we were told all an adult needed was an
official birth certificate and a government issued photo ID.  Minors
(I think under 16, not sure) only need the birth certificate.

Please note, this must be an official birth certificate with the
raised seal.  Photo copies not accepted.

Signature

dillon

When I was a kid, I thought the angel's name was Hark
and the horse's name was Bob.

Geoff - 23 Apr 2004 07:59 GMT
>> The 18 year old will be required to have a passport to
>> reenter the US.
>
>Bullshit.

Not at all.  You also snipped my facetious comment that followed.

As an adult you may choose to bribe whomever you like and spend as
much time and money as you like testing the systems to see what you
can get away with.  The OP I am sure just wants to take her step
daughters on a nice hassle-free vacation and wants to know how hard
she's going to have to work to do it. I inferred from her post that
she wants to either minimize the hassle at the ex-spouses end of it or
wants to minimize the amount of work all around to see that they have
a nice vacation. I'm sure she also doesn't want to have to stand and
explain all that to some Mexican or INS official at either end.

Here's the official US Dept. of State advice on the topic.
http://travel.state.gov/mexico.html

http://travel.state.gov/ppt_faq.html#ca66
Geoff - 23 Apr 2004 08:07 GMT
>>> The 18 year old will be required to have a passport to
>>> reenter the US.
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
>http://travel.state.gov/ppt_faq.html#ca66
http://travel.state.gov/yourtripabroad.html
Greg Mossman - 23 Apr 2004 18:22 GMT
> >Bullshit.
>
> Not at all.  You also snipped my facetious comment that followed.

I don't read facetious comments.  But when I read your bullshit about how a
passport is required to re-enter the U.S., I couldn't help calling it
bullshit.  The 18-year-old needs a birth certificate and government-issued
photo ID, plain and simple.  A passport is nice but it is not required.  You
said it was required.  That's bullshit.

> http://travel.state.gov/mexico.html

That's quite a mouthful.  Were you referring to the part which reads, "A
number of facilities have opened in Mexico that offer behavior modification
therapy for teenagers and others suffering from drug addiction and other
behavioral or psychological problems. Standards applied by the Government of
Mexico and local governments, where they exist, may not meet standards for
similar facilities in the United States . Parents planning to enroll their
children in these facilities should take appropriate action to investigate
the facility first."?  No, I didn't think so.

Or were you simply referring to the part where "the U.S. Embassy recommends
traveling with a valid U.S. passport to avoid delays or misunderstandings"
because that sounds an awful like a recommendation to me and not a
requirement and it speaks of traveling within Mexico not re-entering the
U.S.  Can you even read?

BTW, if you did read the entire state department line of bullshit about any
particular country, you'd never leave the U.S.

In Mexico, for example:  "Crime in Mexico continues at high levels, and it
is often violent", "Sporadic outbursts of politically motivated violence
occur from time to time in certain parts of the country", "Some segments of
the local population resent the presence of foreigners and openly express
their hostility", "There are a significant number of pick-pocketing
incidents, purse snatchings and hotel-room thefts", "Armed street crime is a
serious problem in all of the major cities", "Some establishments may
contaminate or drug the drinks to gain control over the patron", "Victims,
who are almost always unaccompanied, have been raped, robbed of personal
property, or abducted and then held while their credit cards were used at
various businesses and Automatic Teller Machines (ATMs)", "U.S. citizens
should be very cautious in general when using ATMs in Mexico", "Kidnapping,
including the kidnapping of non-Mexicans, continues at alarming rates",
"Criminal assaults occur on highways throughout Mexico", "there have been
several reports of bus hijackings and robberies on "toll" roads", "In some
instances, Americans have become victims of harassment, mistreatment and
extortion by Mexican law enforcement", "Tourists should not hike alone in
backcountry areas, nor walk alone on lightly frequented beaches, ruins or
trails", " In many areas in Mexico , tap water is unsafe and should be
avoided", "Visitors to Mexico , especially in urban areas, should exercise
particular caution when crossing streets", "Mexican authorities may
prosecute anyone arrested for transporting aliens into or out of Mexico",
"There have been a significant number of rapes reported in Cancun", "Diving
equipment provided by dive shops may not meet U.S. safety standards and due
to frequent use, may be substandard or defective", "If black flags are up,
do not enter the water", "Two volcanoes in Mexico have been active in recent
years".  Don't forget, this comes from the same people who told us there
were WMD in Iraq, so you know it must be true.

And you're trying to worry the poor lady over a passport?  What kind of
parent is she, anyway, taking her children to such a dangerous country?
geraldp - 22 Apr 2004 20:40 GMT
Hi Nancy:
> Hi All,
>  
> I was recently told by a fellow scuba diver that now everyone (children
> included) now need passports to enter Cozumel from the U.S.  
.

> Anyone have thoughts or updates on this and can reference their information?
>
> Thanks a lot in advance for any and all help here!
>
> Nancy

Hi Nancy:

As of February of this year they were not required.  However the gals in
our group that tried to get in with just a birth certificate and drivers
license were hassled because their maiden names on the birth certificate
didn't match their names on their DL.  They were told they should also
bring a marriage license, or some other proof of name-change.  They got
in OK, but there was a delay.

Also all the children in our group had photo ID in addition to a birth
certificates.  If you don't get them passports I would recomend bringing
an official photo id as well as their birth certificate.  We got ours at
 the local DMV.

Jerry
Joe English - 22 Apr 2004 22:54 GMT
> Hi Nancy:
>
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
> Jerry

For kids - a picture school id will work - schools are considered
government entities. (I think this works for both public and private
schools)
Jess Englewood - 22 Apr 2004 23:06 GMT
> > Also all the children in our group had photo ID in addition to a birth
> > certificates.  If you don't get them passports I would recomend bringing
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> government entities. (I think this works for both public and private
> schools)

This must be a fairly recent change because my youngest had to get a State
ID card from the motor vehicle station. The passport office would not accept
her school ID.
Joe English - 23 Apr 2004 02:10 GMT
>>>Also all the children in our group had photo ID in addition to a birth
>>>certificates.  If you don't get them passports I would recomend bringing
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> ID card from the motor vehicle station. The passport office would not accept
> her school ID.

Last year - going out of the country (may)
Jer - 14 Jul 2004 12:01 GMT
>>>Also all the children in our group had photo ID in addition to a birth
>>>certificates.  If you don't get them passports I would recomend bringing
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> ID card from the motor vehicle station. The passport office would not accept
> her school ID.

I'm not surprised, a school ID would only be valid for the short time
the student was enrolled.

I'm convinced the lack of passport enforcement for Mexico visits is
largely due to pressure from a variety of entertainment and business
entities on the state dept.  Call it a "good neighbour fence" without a
lockable gate.

Signature

jer  email reply - I am not a 'ten'
"All that we do is touched with ocean, yet we remain on the shore of
what we know."  -- Richard Wilbur

 
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