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Scuba Forum / Scuba Locations / April 2004

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Newbie goes to Cozumel

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Penny S - 18 Apr 2004 16:06 GMT
Newbie here, be gentle with me.  I have been lurking for some time after the
cave/cavern scenario..... anyway...

We leave in about 10 days for our first real dive trip. My hubby and I got
our OW cert on the Puget sound in November, and the time to get back in the
water just hasn't happened, just haven't been able to work in the 600 mile
round trip drive to go back and practice, and the local club dives haven't
started up.

Here's the plan. We're on the coast by Tulum for a few days first, we want
to hopefully get some tanks somewhere and just refresh some of our skills
near the shore,  maybe go out with a DM for review and practice.

Then we will be going to Cozumel for the diving portion of our trip, where
we've reserved about 6 days of diving with the equalizers, who are well
aware of our novice status.  Whether we are clueless or trainable...I sure
hope it's the latter <g>.

My question for you-all is, any suggestions tips, or comments for beginners
to get the most our of our trip? I figure, pay attention to the DM, focus on
the basics, stay warm, be aware

Regarding equipemnt, we have good fins,  masks, gloves, wetsuits, mouth
peices and were going to rent the rest.

thanks for any input.

Penny S
R Benner - 18 Apr 2004 16:25 GMT
> Newbie here, be gentle with me.  I have been lurking for some time after the
> cave/cavern scenario..... anyway...
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
> Penny S

Good plan. Let your fellow divers know about your newbieness and they will
accommodate you.

One more thing, have fun.
Dillon Pyron - 18 Apr 2004 16:53 GMT
>Newbie here, be gentle with me.  I have been lurking for some time after the
>cave/cavern scenario..... anyway...

<snip>

>My question for you-all is, any suggestions tips, or comments for beginners
>to get the most our of our trip? I figure, pay attention to the DM, focus on
>the basics, stay warm, be aware

In CZM (and many other locations, but not all operators), think of the
DM as a tour guide, not a DM like you had for your training.  They are
there primarily to show you the sights, not save your bacon or teach
you skills.  Going for a dive with just a DM to refresh is probably a
good idea.  Make sure your operator and DM know how raw you are.

>Regarding equipemnt, we have good fins,  masks, gloves, wetsuits, mouth
>peices and were going to rent the rest.

Forget the gloves.  Most dive operations in CZM won't let you wear
them.  Go light on the wetsuits (or none at all), the water will be
warm and wonderfully clear.  Be comfortable with having most of the
divers below you on the deep dive and don't go beyond your
capabilities.

Above all, have fun and try not to dive with a hangover.

>thanks for any input.
>
>Penny S

Signature

dillon

Life is always short, but only you can make it sweet

nobody - 19 Apr 2004 21:43 GMT
BRING the gloves, tuck them into your BC pocket and use them if you need
them to hang on the mooring line. Anyone who's ever gotten stung by
hydroids will agree. They grow on the mooring lines in some cases.

Bart F.

>>Newbie here, be gentle with me.  I have been lurking for some time after the
>>cave/cavern scenario..... anyway...
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>>
>>Penny S
rwjg40 - 19 Apr 2004 22:26 GMT
> BRING the gloves, tuck them into your BC pocket and use them if you need
> them to hang on the mooring line. Anyone who's ever gotten stung by
> hydroids will agree. They grow on the mooring lines in some cases.

You won't encounter many (if any) mooring lines when diving Cozumel.

Gordon in Austin
Joe English - 20 Apr 2004 00:57 GMT
> BRING the gloves, tuck them into your BC pocket and use them if you need
> them to hang on the mooring line. Anyone who's ever gotten stung by
> hydroids will agree. They grow on the mooring lines in some cases.
>
> Bart F.

I have never seen any mooring lines in Coz. Are there any?  Since most
dives are drift dives .....
Jason O'Rourke - 20 Apr 2004 06:01 GMT
>> BRING the gloves, tuck them into your BC pocket and use them if you need
>> them to hang on the mooring line. Anyone who's ever gotten stung by
>> hydroids will agree. They grow on the mooring lines in some cases.
>
>I have never seen any mooring lines in Coz. Are there any?  Since most
>dives are drift dives .....

He's not just diving in Coz, and you never know.  Same reason you should
carry a knife.  The BC remora types are great for such a backup purpose.  

Signature

Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com

Jer - 20 Apr 2004 14:50 GMT
>>>BRING the gloves, tuck them into your BC pocket and use them if you need
>>>them to hang on the mooring line. Anyone who's ever gotten stung by
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> carry a knife.  The BC remora types are great for such a backup purpose.  
>  

I wear a Remora knife AND gloves whenever and wherever I dive -
including Coz.  Keep in mind, nobody on this boat cares much for stupid
rules.  Touching the reef is a no-no whether the toucher is protected of
not.  This boat won't allow touchers to dive from it.  No exceptions.

Signature

jer  email reply - I am not a 'ten'  ICQ = 35253273
"All that we do is touched with ocean, yet we remain on the shore of
what we know."  -- Richard Wilbur

nobody - 20 Apr 2004 14:49 GMT
I have not been to Cozumel. My suggestion was a general one. My
daughter, who has some serious allergy issues, was seriously stung by
hydroids while snorkeling. It was a choppy day and she was hanging on a
mooring line in Barbados. She wrapped her legs around the line and was
severely stung. I also grabbed hold of the line while talking to her and
my hand was stung.

The rationale about not allowing divers to wear gloves is total
bullshit. The idiots that will touch anything that shouldn't be touched
are indifferent and ingnorant enough to touch the stuff without gloves
anyway ... and those that care about their diving environment won't
touch anything with gloves on.

Gloves are a safety issue and the dive operators that want to control
your gear should leave well enough alone. If you are caught damaging a
reef, let them turn you in to the authorities at the dock.

Well, that's my rant for the week ...

Bart F.

>> BRING the gloves, tuck them into your BC pocket and use them if you
>> need them to hang on the mooring line. Anyone who's ever gotten stung
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> I have never seen any mooring lines in Coz. Are there any?  Since most
> dives are drift dives .....
DrYak - 21 Apr 2004 01:49 GMT
Speaking of total BS (based on my two trips to Coz) is no gloves and no
knives.  As long as you don't threaten the DM with either, there's not
likely to be an issue.

If you have to touch the reef, use finger tips.  If that won't hold,
drift on.

But I think we're overloading you with information.  Go. Dive. Have fun.
Learn.  Come back next year.

> I have not been to Cozumel. My suggestion was a general one. My
> daughter, who has some serious allergy issues, was seriously stung by
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>> I have never seen any mooring lines in Coz. Are there any?  Since most
>> dives are drift dives .....
Penny S - 21 Apr 2004 02:14 GMT
> Speaking of total BS (based on my two trips to Coz) is no gloves and
> no knives.  As long as you don't threaten the DM with either, there's
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> But I think we're overloading you with information.  Go. Dive. Have
> fun. Learn.  Come back next year.

actually, you aren't!! I'm scanning these posts, copying and pasting the
best tidbits into a note that will get read *later*.

P.
Forest Aten - 22 Apr 2004 04:23 GMT
> BRING the gloves, tuck them into your BC pocket and use them if you need
> them to hang on the mooring line. Anyone who's ever gotten stung by
> hydroids will agree. They grow on the mooring lines in some cases.

What mooring lines?

No gloves...they aren't needed.
Al Wells - 18 Apr 2004 17:02 GMT
> Here's the plan. We're on the coast by Tulum for a few days first, we want
> to hopefully get some tanks somewhere and just refresh some of our skills
> near the shore,  maybe go out with a DM for review and practice.
<snip>
> My question for you-all is, any suggestions tips, or comments for beginners
> to get the most our of our trip? I figure, pay attention to the DM, focus on
> the basics, stay warm, be aware

You may want to even do a few dives on the coast. I'm not too familiar
with the beach at Tulum, but I do know that there is some pretty good
diving just a few minutes off the beach at Akumal, about 20km north.
Boats are small, there are some good DM's, and the dives are easy (35-60
ft). There is a nice calm shallow area by the dive shops where you can
walk in and get familiar with gear. Tulum might very well have a similar
setup.

You will do best focusing on the basics for the first couple of dives.
You will probably use your air up quicker than the others, but don't
fixate on that. Your consumption will drop all by itself as you become
more confident and relaxed in the water.

Have a great time

al
Jimini - 18 Apr 2004 17:18 GMT
> Newbie here, be gentle with me.  I have been lurking for some time after the
> cave/cavern scenario..... anyway...
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
> Penny S

The best pieces of advice I got re: CZM diving were 1) avoid fighting the
current, just go along for the ride, the boat WILL pick you up and 2) if you
drift faster than the rest of your group and you want to wait for them, find
a coral head and duck behind it low to get out of the current (but stay off
the bottom) and kick against the current.

Have fun, the drift diving is so relaxing if you just "let it ride".

Jo
Ron Lee - 18 Apr 2004 17:36 GMT
>Newbie here, be gentle with me.

Does this mean that I cannot call you an idiot or clueless newbie?
Nevermind, that is someone else who does that.

Here is a link where you can get lots of info about Cozumel:

http://www.travelnotes.cc/tchatters/viewforum.php?f=1

Also, the Cozumel map from www.cancunmap.com is very useful.

I recommend a wetsuit (3 mil max).  The diving in Cozumel is drift
diving.  It is fun and effortless.  Do not try to fight the current.
If you get ahead of your group, relax.   Find a coral head or similar
that you can duck behind and wait for the others to catch up (like
getting behind a tree to stay out of the wind).

Drink lots of water.  Use sunscreen.  Take mosquito repellent just in
case.  Get out and explore the island but do not rent mopeds.

Ron Lee
Penny S - 18 Apr 2004 17:43 GMT
>> Newbie here, be gentle with me.
>
> Does this mean that I cannot call you an idiot or clueless newbie?

sure you can,  if you think I merit it. Was there supposed to be a smiley
with that?

> Nevermind, that is someone else who does that.

goody, I can't wait.

> Here is a link where you can get lots of info about Cozumel:
>
> http://www.travelnotes.cc/tchatters/viewforum.php?f=1

thx.
Ron Lee - 18 Apr 2004 18:55 GMT
>> Does this mean that I cannot call you an idiot or clueless newbie?
>
>sure you can,  if you think I merit it. Was there supposed to be a smiley
>with that?

I seldom use smileys.  If you read my posts enough you would have
enough insight into my character to know that it was in jest.   And
since you are a newbie I should have extended the courtesy of a smiley
so that you did not think I was picking on you   :)    :)   :)    :)

Ron Lee
Greg Mossman - 18 Apr 2004 23:46 GMT
> I seldom use smileys.  If you read my posts enough you would have
> enough insight into my character to know that it was in jest.   And
> since you are a newbie I should have extended the courtesy of a smiley
> so that you did not think I was picking on you   :)    :)   :)    :)

Smileys are unnecessary for newbies just as they're unnecessary for everyone
else.  Unless she's a newbie to written English?
Penny S - 19 Apr 2004 01:14 GMT
>> I seldom use smileys.  If you read my posts enough you would have
>> enough insight into my character to know that it was in jest.   And
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Smileys are unnecessary for newbies just as they're unnecessary for
> everyone else.  Unless she's a newbie to written English?

note to self...  r.s.l  posters  do not use smileys in their posts. Got it.

penny
Lee Bell - 19 Apr 2004 02:11 GMT
> >> I seldom use smileys.  If you read my posts enough you would have
> >> enough insight into my character to know that it was in jest.   And
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> note to self...  r.s.l  posters  do not use smileys in their posts. Got it.

Greg's an attorney.  Don't trust him.  We use smileys all the time, you just
can't count on it.

I'm a Fed.   Don't trust me either.  8^)

Lee
Reef Fish - 19 Apr 2004 19:58 GMT
> > >> I seldom use smileys.  If you read my posts enough you would have
> > >> enough insight into my character to know that it was in jest.   And
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> > > Smileys are unnecessary for newbies just as they're unnecessary for
> > > everyone else.  Unless she's a newbie to written English?

http://netsquirrel.com/roadmap96/map07.html   on Netiquette:

*>  (8) DO remember that no one can hear your tone of voice. Use
*>  emoticons (or smileys) like :-) or ;^) -- tilt your head
*>  counterclockwise to see the smile. You can also use caps for
*>  emphasis or use net conventions for italics and underlines

> > note to self...  r.s.l  posters  do not use smileys in their posts. Got
> it.

Note to Penny S:  ERASE the note to yourself!  :-)

> Greg's an attorney.  Don't trust him.  We use smileys all the time, you just
> can't count on it.
>
> I'm a Fed.   Don't trust me either.  8^)
>
> Lee

Lee is correct about not trusting him, but for the wrong reason!
He sticks his head in the sand :-), flames me on what he has not
seen or read, and he THINKS he is expert about Cozumel when he has
only been there once, in 1999.

-- Bob.   NOT the Bob "Bob" Crispen who wrote the piece on NETIQUETTE.
Joe English - 19 Apr 2004 03:28 GMT
>>>I seldom use smileys.  If you read my posts enough you would have
>>>enough insight into my character to know that it was in jest.   And
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> penny

No Penny, Greg doesn't - the rest do! :-)
Joe English - 19 Apr 2004 03:28 GMT
>>I seldom use smileys.  If you read my posts enough you would have
>>enough insight into my character to know that it was in jest.   And
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Smileys are unnecessary for newbies just as they're unnecessary for everyone
> else.  Unless she's a newbie to written English?

You find them unnecesary - the rest of us don't! :-)
Greg Mossman - 19 Apr 2004 05:00 GMT
> You find them unnecesary - the rest of us don't! :-)

Joe English, when you read a book, does it contain smileys?  When you talk
on the phone with someone, do you ever say "smiley"?  Centuries of
correspondence and other writings have been successfully exchanged in the
English language (and others) without fault and without smileys.

So tell me, why do believe are smileys necessary for newsgroup postings
and/or e-mail?
Lee Bell - 19 Apr 2004 11:44 GMT
> Joe English, when you read a book, does it contain smileys?  When you talk
> on the phone with someone, do you ever say "smiley"?  Centuries of
> correspondence and other writings have been successfully exchanged in the
> English language (and others) without fault and without smileys.

I once read books by the Klu Klux Klan, ones written before you and I were
born.  They would have done a lot less harm had they included smileys.

The fact is, even with careful writing, intended for a diverse audience,
that is reviewed and edited by professionals experienced in their craft,
writings have been misunderstood as long as there have been writings.

Phone calls don't count.  On the phone, you can have immediate feedback,
giving you the opportunity to correct any misunderstandings.  While you
don't hear "smileys," you do hear the equivalent "just kidding."

> So tell me, why do believe are smileys necessary for newsgroup postings
> and/or e-mail?

Because experience has taught us that the failure to include emoticons leads
to more misunderstandings than including them does.

Lee
Joe English - 19 Apr 2004 12:59 GMT
>>You find them unnecesary - the rest of us don't! :-)
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> So tell me, why do believe are smileys necessary for newsgroup postings
> and/or e-mail?

Who cares, Greg.  It is obvious that in a phone conversation one can
detect inflection, and tone in one's voice.  While reading a book you
are involved in a one way conversation that is following a story with
character evolving throughtout the story line.

If it is that big a deal, petition your legislators, get a bill
sponsored, and passed by the congress and out law smileys and other
emoticons.  That is what people of your ilk do, don't they?

in closing :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
Greg Mossman - 19 Apr 2004 15:23 GMT
> Who cares, Greg.  It is obvious that in a phone conversation one can
> detect inflection, and tone in one's voice.  While reading a book you
> are involved in a one way conversation that is following a story with
> character evolving throughtout the story line.

But it's obvious that in written correspondence one too can detect
inflection and tone in one's writing style.

> If it is that big a deal, petition your legislators, get a bill
> sponsored, and passed by the congress and out law smileys and other
> emoticons.  That is what people of your ilk do, don't they?

Thanks for the suggestion.  I'll get right to work on the problem.

Vote Mossman for President in 2008!  Ban Smileys in 2009!
Lee Bell - 19 Apr 2004 18:28 GMT
"Greg Mossman" <mossman@qnet.com> wrote > > If it is that big a deal,
petition your legislators, get a bill
> > sponsored, and passed by the congress and out law smileys and other
> > emoticons.  That is what people of your ilk do, don't they?
>
> Thanks for the suggestion.  I'll get right to work on the problem.
>
> Vote Mossman for President in 2008!  Ban Smileys in 2009!

You're  going to have to change your stance on gun control issues.

Lee
Greg Mossman - 19 Apr 2004 21:47 GMT
> > Vote Mossman for President in 2008!  Ban Smileys in 2009!
>
> You're  going to have to change your stance on gun control issues.

I'd rather change my stance on smileys.  :)
Lee Bell - 20 Apr 2004 00:01 GMT
> > > Vote Mossman for President in 2008!  Ban Smileys in 2009!
> >
> > You're  going to have to change your stance on gun control issues.
>
> I'd rather change my stance on smileys.  :)

Alas, you'll not get voted into office that way.  8^)

Lee
Joe English - 19 Apr 2004 18:56 GMT
>>Who cares, Greg.  It is obvious that in a phone conversation one can
>>detect inflection, and tone in one's voice.  While reading a book you
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Vote Mossman for President in 2008!  Ban Smileys in 2009!

I'd vote for you before I would vote for Hiliary or Kerry!  Good luck
and until you get that ban on simileys - :-)

Oh yes there are times you can detect inflection and tone in one's
writing style - however at most times it is quite obtuse - :-)
Lee Bell - 19 Apr 2004 02:07 GMT
> My question for you-all is, any suggestions tips, or comments for beginners
> to get the most our of our trip? I figure, pay attention to the DM, focus on
> the basics, stay warm, be aware

Many of the dive sites in Cozumel are over very deep water, off vertical
walls, in very clear water.  It is exceptionally easy to fail to notice your
depth and to get deeper than you would normally consider appropriate both
because of the lack of a horizontal visual reference and because light,
which is a key element in most people's awareness of depth, does not drop
off as quickly in water that clear.  The deeper you are, the faster your air
supply will be exhausted.  Be clear with your DM about what depths you are
comfortable with.  Don't be pressured to overdue by the many wonders found
in deeper portions of the reef.  There's plenty to see and do at moderate
depths.  Do watch your depth and gas consumption closely.

Cozumel diving is, for the most part, drift diving.  Currents are sometimes
mild and sometimes strong.  Keep an eye on your DM and don't let him get out
of sight.  The pickup boat will find him.  You want to be sure it finds you
too.

One of the attractions in Cozumel is the many swim throughs.  All swim
throughs are an overhead environment.  Some are relatively safe, others,
that are longer and/or narrower, are more dangerous.  Consider whether you
want to do any of them at this stage of your diving experience.  Consider
very carefully, whether you want to do any that are particularly deep, long
and/or narrow.

If you chose to do any shore diving, be careful.  The same currents that
make diving off the wall so exciting, often exist near shore.  On a shore
dive, there's no boat to come and get you if you get carried away by the
currents.

Have a great time.  Cozumel diving is pretty spectacular.  Make sure you
survive it to come back again.

Lee
Ron Lee - 19 Apr 2004 03:39 GMT
>Many of the dive sites in Cozumel are over very deep water, off vertical
>walls, in very clear water.

I would clarify this with the practice by many dive shops to drop you
over a sandy bottom.  Meet at the bottom, verify status, then swim a
bit to the wall.   It may have happened but I do not recall ever
starting a dive over blue water.

Ron Lee
Jason O'Rourke - 19 Apr 2004 08:48 GMT
>I would clarify this with the practice by many dive shops to drop you
>over a sandy bottom.  Meet at the bottom, verify status, then swim a
>bit to the wall.   It may have happened but I do not recall ever
>starting a dive over blue water.

I know I have.  Kick across and as soon as the wall was visible, drop
down and angle your way over.  Works fine for me - I'm used to not seeing
the bottom when I descend.  

Signature

Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com

Lee Bell - 19 Apr 2004 11:46 GMT
> >Many of the dive sites in Cozumel are over very deep water, off vertical
> >walls, in very clear water.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> bit to the wall.   It may have happened but I do not recall ever
> starting a dive over blue water.

End result is the same.  I have, in fact, been dropped over blue water, but
the point is that the dive is done next to a vertical surface over deep
water, not over a visible horizontal surface that both helps the diver
maintain a constant depth and forms a hard limit to how deep that diver can
go by mistake.

Lee
DrYak - 20 Apr 2004 01:36 GMT
I would get a safety sausage just in case you get separated from the
group.  If you get separated, follow the book:  safety stop, surface
looking around and then inflate the sausage and your captain will find
you.  You can stuff the sausage in a BCD pocket.

Also, I've gotten in the habit of keeping my console in my hand.  Keeps
me from trying to swim with my arms and keeps me watching my air and my
depth.

If you find you're getting lower on air than you want, just rise up 10
or 15 feet above the rest of the group.  You'll still see most of what
they do.

Enjoy Cozumel.  It's got some great dives. In fact, they're all at least
"good."

>>My question for you-all is, any suggestions tips, or comments for
>
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
>
> Lee
Joe English - 20 Apr 2004 02:01 GMT
> I would get a safety sausage just in case you get separated from the
> group.  If you get separated, follow the book:  safety stop, surface
[quoted text clipped - 64 lines]
>>
>> Lee

I usually stuff the sausage up one of my sleeves on my wet skin.  But
always dive with it.  I got into a jam in Belize one time - the sun was
behind us, diving on the Nekton.  They never did see us even with
Sausage inflated.  The Belize Aggressor was behind us.  The Nekton came
out to get someone else and saw us
Lee Bell - 20 Apr 2004 02:18 GMT
> I usually stuff the sausage up one of my sleeves on my wet skin.  But
> always dive with it.  I got into a jam in Belize one time - the sun was
> behind us, diving on the Nekton.  They never did see us even with
> Sausage inflated.  The Belize Aggressor was behind us.  The Nekton came
> out to get someone else and saw us

My sausage is one of the larger than average Halcyon models.  When inflated,
it's about 5 feet long and about 6 inches in diameter.  It's quite visible
from quite a distance.  It rides in my plate pocket, the one between my body
and the plate.  It goes on all drift dives, all dives where shore is out of
sight and on any other dives where I don't have something else I want to
carry in that pocket.

Lee
Penny S - 20 Apr 2004 02:31 GMT
>> I usually stuff the sausage up one of my sleeves on my wet skin.  But
>> always dive with it.  I got into a jam in Belize one time - the sun
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Lee

hmm sounds like a very good idea.. how come I have never heard of one
before? I spose we can pick one up there, or maybe our lds ( is that right,
lds?)

now, to  send this info to the hubby..

penny
DrYak - 20 Apr 2004 03:02 GMT
I sometimes hook it to my BCD and let it float.  Your dive master will
have one and a line.  He'll inflate it from 15 feet, but you don't need
to do that.  (If you do, remember a little air expands.)

You should be able to buy it somewhere down there.  There are several
good dive shops a few blocks west of the plaza in Cozumel.  Or support
your local dive shop.  A regular sausage that rolls up should not cost
more than $25.

I usually bring a 3 mm shortie that I bought real cheap and a dive skin
for diving between the Keys and Belize.  I've also got a lycra hood.
That covers a lot of temperatures.  A week of diving makes the water
feel colder.

Dr. Y

>>>I usually stuff the sausage up one of my sleeves on my wet skin.  But
>>>always dive with it.  I got into a jam in Belize one time - the sun
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> penny
Ron Lee - 20 Apr 2004 05:28 GMT
>hmm sounds like a very good idea.. how come I have never heard of one
>before? I spose we can pick one up there, or maybe our lds ( is that right,
>lds?)

Because you are a newbie and learning.  You will continue to learn new
stuff.    Oops, forgot the smiley after the first sentence...and this
one   :)

I recommend a safety sausage that you have to blow into an inflator
tube.   Some are open at the bottom and would seem to be
semi-worthless on the surface.

Some people have theirs on a line so that they can inflate them under
water and bob on the surface.  I would not worry about that now.   I
also carry a mirror and whistle.  One to check my hair once I surface
and the other to try to catch women's attention.  :)

Ron Lee
Penny S - 20 Apr 2004 16:14 GMT
>> hmm sounds like a very good idea.. how come I have never heard of one
>> before? I spose we can pick one up there, or maybe our lds ( is that
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> stuff.    Oops, forgot the smiley after the first sentence...and this
> one   :)

I may be a newbie to diving, but not to usenet, oh no....

confused tho.. is this an item that should be purchased, or do we expect the
diving co. to provide it?

P.
Greg Mossman - 20 Apr 2004 16:36 GMT
> I may be a newbie to diving, but not to usenet, oh no....
>
> confused tho.. is this an item that should be purchased, or do we expect the
> diving co. to provide it?

Purchased. The cheap orange plastic ones are cheap.

Some liveaboards provide the works (sausage, mirror, whistle, dive alert
and/or epirb) for "free" but then they're already charging a few thousand
bucks for the trip.
Penny S - 20 Apr 2004 16:47 GMT
>> I may be a newbie to diving, but not to usenet, oh no....
>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> alert and/or epirb) for "free" but then they're already charging a
> few thousand bucks for the trip.

cool. this is looking like I can raid some of our other  safety gear (
rafting and climbing) for knives, mirrors and whistles.  any of have a URL
that shows how one carries this gear with them?

I'm a teeny bit familiar with the drift concept.  A little background, for
those who care: Our other, first trip to Coz was a couple of summers ago,
with our kids. We wanted to do a snorkel trip but not with a cattle boat.
We walked over to
the equalizers which was just down the block from our hotel and asked about
a  custom snorkeling trip for the family. They had a boat free, so our
little group of four went out with one of the DM's and the boat driver for a
drift snorkel adventure, just us.  I'm not sure which reefs she took us too,
but we drift snorkeled most of the day, what an awesome experience!
Naturally,  this is why we decided to go get dive certified and come back.
penny
nobody - 20 Apr 2004 17:22 GMT
> cool. this is looking like I can raid some of our other  safety gear (
> rafting and climbing) for knives, mirrors and whistles.  any of have a URL
> that shows how one carries this gear with them?

Go with a plastic whistle. It will last much longer. Same with a plastic
mirror. Some here will advise that a knife is OK but EMT shears are
better. The shears will cut through most anything that will snag you.
The knife is good for stabbing your buddy if a hungry Great White shows
up. Or, just swim faster ...

Personally, I think the color of the items you buy is worth considering.
It may seem trivial ... until you need to grab something in low/0
visibility, or if you need to find it on the bottom if dropped.

Bart F.
Penny S - 20 Apr 2004 17:36 GMT
>> cool. this is looking like I can raid some of our other  safety gear
>> ( rafting and climbing) for knives, mirrors and whistles.  any of
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Bart F.

oh, we've got at least half a dozen plastic safety orange LOUD safety
whistles around the place, we use them river running.  We have sheath knives
already, that we would strap to our life vests,  and who knows we may even
have EMT shears around from our ski patrolling. Never buy what you can
scavange from the gear closet.
Greg Mossman - 20 Apr 2004 21:06 GMT
> oh, we've got at least half a dozen plastic safety orange LOUD safety
> whistles around the place, we use them river running.  We have sheath knives
> already, that we would strap to our life vests,  and who knows we may even
> have EMT shears around from our ski patrolling. Never buy what you can
> scavange from the gear closet.

Orange whistles can hang around your neck if you like, or they can be stowed
with the mirror, sausage, etc., in a BC or wetsuit pocket that you hopefully
already have.  Otherwise, I would invest in a pocket if I were you.

The danger in keeping the whistle around your neck is that an out-of-air DIR
diver might mistake it for a necklaced regulator and try to breathe off it
underwater.  If that happens, don't panic.  It's a common occurrence.
Lee Bell - 20 Apr 2004 20:13 GMT
> > Some liveaboards provide the works (sausage, mirror, whistle, dive
> > alert and/or epirb) for "free" but then they're already charging a
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> rafting and climbing) for knives, mirrors and whistles.  any of have a URL
> that shows how one carries this gear with them?

Your knife goes where you can reach it with either hand.  Some wear them on
their shoulder strap, some on their inflator hose and some on their ankle.
A small, but sharp one is enough.  If it's close to something that might be
damaged by a sharp point, I suggest a blunt tip knife.  Personally, I carry
two.  The sharp pointed one is on the right side of my waist belt.  The
blunt tip one is on the left.  For most divers, the mirror and whistle go in
a BC pocket.  Since I have no pockets, I tend to leave them at home.  BTW,
an Old CD makes a nice mirror.

Do what you like with gloves.  I'm one who believes they are a safety
device, just like a lot of other safety devices, but not as critical as
most.  I prefer to wear them, but don't get real upset if asked not to.

Lee
George Cathcart - 20 Apr 2004 21:02 GMT
> For most divers, the mirror and whistle go in
>a BC pocket.

Most divers I know have the whistle tie-wrapped to the inflator hose
very close to the oral inflator. No fumbling around if you need it, and
no risk of dropping it while pulling it out of the pocket.

g
Lee Bell - 21 Apr 2004 12:21 GMT
> > For most divers, the mirror and whistle go in
> >a BC pocket.
> >
> Most divers I know have the whistle tie-wrapped to the inflator hose
> very close to the oral inflator. No fumbling around if you need it, and
> no risk of dropping it while pulling it out of the pocket.

Actually, most divers I know, don't carry a whistle at all.  When I do, it's
because somebody made it a rule for diving on their boat.  I don't attach it
to anything where it's likely to entangle anything else.  With my kit and in
my opinion, the inflator hose is a place where it's likely to tangle with
other things.  Of course, the design of your kit and the way you attach it
do make a difference.

Lee
Greg Mossman - 21 Apr 2004 16:01 GMT
> Actually, most divers I know, don't carry a whistle at all.  When I do, it's
> because somebody made it a rule for diving on their boat.  I don't attach it
> to anything where it's likely to entangle anything else.  With my kit and in
> my opinion, the inflator hose is a place where it's likely to tangle with
> other things.  Of course, the design of your kit and the way you attach it
> do make a difference.

Janna's new BC, a Scubapro Ladyhawk, came with a strange-looking piece of
plastic zip-tied around the inflator hose.  At first I couldn't figure out
if it were some sort of tool.  Finally it dawned on me.  While I'm not in
the habit of sticking strange objects in my mouth and blowing, I took a
chance this time and was proven right:  it's a whistle.  Kudos to ScubaPro
for "building" a signalling device into their gear, as long as they stop
"progress" there and don't develop another HUB.
Joe English - 20 Apr 2004 18:45 GMT
>>>hmm sounds like a very good idea.. how come I have never heard of one
>>>before? I spose we can pick one up there, or maybe our lds ( is that
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> P.

It probably will not be provided.
Lee Bell - 20 Apr 2004 20:07 GMT
> >> hmm sounds like a very good idea.. how come I have never heard of one
> >> before? I spose we can pick one up there, or maybe our lds ( is that
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> confused tho.. is this an item that should be purchased, or do we expect the
> diving co. to provide it?

Buy your own.

Lee
rwjg40 - 20 Apr 2004 18:11 GMT
> Some people have theirs on a line so that they can inflate them under
> water and bob on the surface.  I would not worry about that now.  

The DM's on Cozumel frequently do that - inflate the buoy when submerged
and reel it to the surface.  Often they have the line marked at 15 feet
for a ref point for a safety stop.  There's a trick, though, to
inflating (and releasing) it quickly.  The first time I tried inflating
a safety sausage during a safety stop, I was so slow with it that by the
time I had it inflated, its buoyancy had dragged me to the surface.

Gordon in Austin
Lee Bell - 20 Apr 2004 13:18 GMT
> >> I usually stuff the sausage up one of my sleeves on my wet skin.  But
> >> always dive with it.  I got into a jam in Belize one time - the sun
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> now, to  send this info to the hubby..

Yes, lds is correct.  The large safety sausages are becoming increasingly
popular.  They're quite easy to see and much better than smaller ones when
the waves get large.  On one trip, my buddy and I surfaced well away from
the boat in seas that were taller than I could hold my 5 foot sausage.  When
I was at the top of a wave, I was quite visible.  When I was at the bottom
of one, I was not visible at all.  The smaller sausages, about three feet
long and maybe three inches in diameter when inflated have been around a
long time.  They're a lot better than nothing, but in adverse conditions,
are not as good as the larger ones.

The reason you haven't seen or heard of them may related to where you dive.
They're not as common in inland diving, where drift diving is not common
and/or where the dive boats don't go out when the waves are over a couple of
feet.

Lee
Jason O'Rourke - 19 Apr 2004 02:39 GMT
>We leave in about 10 days for our first real dive trip. My hubby and I got
>our OW cert on the Puget sound in November, and the time to get back in the
>water just hasn't happened, just haven't been able to work in the 600 mile
>round trip drive to go back and practice, and the local club dives haven't

Coming from Washington, you'll find the diving there refreshingly easy
in comparison.  Less lead, less wetsuit, much more light (like some!),
and of course the pleasant temp and high viz without needing a light.

But 6 months of rust and no other experience...if you could do a pool
session or two at home, it would be helpful.  I'd stay away from the big
vertical walls initially, make sure you can control your rate of descent
as you go well beyond the typical 40ft training zones.  

As notes, gloves are frown upon or banned, but you can still carry something
in a pocket and put them on if you need to deal with a sea of jellies or
a rusty anchor line.  This isn't common in Coz, but I did get hit by a really
nasty jelly on the back of my hand.  I got my other hand trying to remove
the little bit and the welt lasted a couple weeks.  Simple latex gloves
would do the job and take up no space.  

Signature

Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com

rwjg40 - 19 Apr 2004 18:57 GMT
> Coming from Washington, you'll find the diving there refreshingly easy
> in comparison.  Less lead, less wetsuit, much more light (like some!),
> and of course the pleasant temp and high viz without needing a light.

I nearly always take a light down with me when I'm diving Cozumel.  In
the swimthroughs there are side grottoes that can hold interesting
stuff, and even out in the open a light will help you see under
overhangs and into holes.

You'll love diving Coz; I'll be there myself three weeks from Wednesday.

Gordon in Austin
Jason O'Rourke - 20 Apr 2004 06:23 GMT
>I nearly always take a light down with me when I'm diving Cozumel.  In
>the swimthroughs there are side grottoes that can hold interesting
>stuff, and even out in the open a light will help you see under
>overhangs and into holes.

Lights definitely have value, though the downside of all that brightness
is that a little light doesn't reach very far except in the swimthrus.

Given they are newdivers, however, I think they can do well without
the dangling flashlight (unless it's a night dive).  

Signature

Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com

Lee Bell - 20 Apr 2004 13:23 GMT
> >I nearly always take a light down with me when I'm diving Cozumel.  In
> >the swimthroughs there are side grottoes that can hold interesting
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Given they are newdivers, however, I think they can do well without
> the dangling flashlight (unless it's a night dive).

Dangling flashlight?  Everybody can do without a dangling flashlight.  8^)
On the other hand, a well secured one can be nice to have.  Most of us carry
some kind of light on every dive.  Our motives vary, but we all have two
things in common.  We have a reason to want light and we're better off if
it's accessible, but not dangling.

BTW, I carry a knife on every dive and wear gloves on every dive where they
are not specifically prohibited.  I wore them on every dive I did in
Cozumel.

Lee
Joe English - 19 Apr 2004 03:25 GMT
> Newbie here, be gentle with me.  I have been lurking for some time after the
> cave/cavern scenario..... anyway...
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
> Penny S

Practice good buoyancy - listen to your DM - enjoy your trip - Coz is
some of the best diving you will ever do.
Watch your depths - great walls - great drift diving!

When are you going to be there?
John White - 19 Apr 2004 15:10 GMT
>Newbie here, be gentle with me.  I have been lurking for some time after the
>cave/cavern scenario..... anyway...
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
>Penny S

A great shop for Newbies in Tulum is the Abyss. The DMs there will
make sure your skills are up to snuff before heading over.
Adam Helberg - 19 Apr 2004 20:14 GMT
> Newbie here, be gentle with me.  I have been lurking for some time after the
> cave/cavern scenario..... anyway...
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
> Penny S

I would suggest doing an initial shallow shore dive to get your buoyancy right. You want
to be close to neutral with no air in BC and 500PSI in tank. The water in Cozumel is said
to be more salty and requires more weight.

Adam
Adam Helberg - 19 Apr 2004 20:33 GMT
> Newbie here, be gentle with me.  I have been lurking for some time after the
> cave/cavern scenario..... anyway...
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
> Penny S

One more suggestion. Take a safety sausage in case you drift from the boat.

Adam
Penny S - 19 Apr 2004 23:59 GMT
> One more suggestion. Take a safety sausage in case you drift from the
> boat.
>
> Adam

ok, I thought maybe I was  being trolled but I guess there really is such a
thing..
http://www.divebooty.com/equipment_details.asp?pid=3787

thanks everyone for the good ideas. I'm impressed,  you guys can derail a
thread faster than a speeding bullet.

I suppose a trip report, dive report is appropriate when we get back?

thanks

penny s
Lee Bell - 20 Apr 2004 00:03 GMT
in message news:1088mepahg9krfb@corp.supernews.com...
> > One more suggestion. Take a safety sausage in case you drift from the
> > boat.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> I suppose a trip report, dive report is appropriate when we get back?

You bet there is.  In Cozumel, bigger is better.  Cozumel is an island and
if you happen to get carried away, it's a long, long way 'til the next stop.
Anything that helps others see you is a good idea.

Lee
Adam Helberg - 20 Apr 2004 03:59 GMT
> > One more suggestion. Take a safety sausage in case you drift from the
> > boat.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> penny s

I like to joke about my 8 foot safety sausage, but in Cozumel it really is serious and
good to have. The currents can be *very* fast and it's easy to drift from the boat and be
hard to be seen in the waves. The easiest one to inflate is the cheap one with an open end
that can be filled with your regulator.

Adam
geraldp - 20 Apr 2004 19:42 GMT
> Newbie here, be gentle with me.  I have been lurking for some time
after the
> cave/cavern scenario..... anyway...
>
> We leave in about 10 days for our first real dive trip. My hubby and
I got
> our OW cert on the Puget sound in November, and the time to get back
in the
> water just hasn't happened, just haven't been able to work in the 600
mile
> round trip drive to go back and practice, and the local club dives
haven't
> started up.
>
> Here's the plan. We're on the coast by Tulum for a few days first, we
want
> to hopefully get some tanks somewhere and just refresh some of our skills
> near the shore,  maybe go out with a DM for review and practice.

We were there in February.  I was a newbie (with only 8 dives).  I did 2
dives out of Playa Del Carmen, and 3 dives out of Cozumel.  Don't
completely dismis diving near Tulum/Playa... there's some neat spots to
see.  Cozumel is better, however.

> Then we will be going to Cozumel for the diving portion of our trip,
where
> we've reserved about 6 days of diving with the equalizers, who are well
> aware of our novice status.  Whether we are clueless or trainable...I
sure
> hope it's the latter <g>.
>
> My question for you-all is, any suggestions tips, or comments for
beginners
> to get the most our of our trip? I figure, pay attention to the DM,
focus on
> the basics, stay warm, be aware

Our first dive was in Cozumel on Columbia Deep (at the southern end of
the island).  The DM gave us a pretty good prep speach.  He said don't
go below 80 feet, signal me when you get to 1000psi, and again when you
get to 750psi and then we'll head up.  He told us if we run out of air
we should go to him for air (i.e. he was going to be our buddy).  I
stuck with him like glue, and when I got a little deep (84 feet) he
motioned for me to rise a little.  He pointed out a lot of neat sealife
for us.  I signaled him when I got to 1000psi, and again at 750.  To my
surprise he didn't do anything, just drifted along at 80 feet.  I
started to get very anxious, and finally at 500psi I decided I had to go
up by myself.  I did a proper safety stop and ended at only 150psi or
so.  My buddy wasn't so fortunate, and ran out of air at the safetystop
and had to share air with another diver (the DM ignored him as well).

I guess my lesson learned was 1) Listen to, but don't completely rely on
your DM (i.e. take care of yourself) and 2) take care of your buddy,
watch his air, and stick with him.  3) Finally, communicate
contingencies with your DM and your Buddy before you go down.  Neither
of us had been that deep before, and my buddy was using rental equipment
and wasn't watching his guage.  I was watching my guage, but expected
the DM to ascend with us.  Instead he stayed with the more experienced
divers and didn't surface until about 15-20 minutes later.

As somebody said (I think it was Dillon), DM doesn't stand for Dive
Mama, and he's not going to handhold you like your instructor did.

Another bit of advice... watch your ascent rate.  On the drift dives
(without an ascent line) it's extremely easy to ascend too fast.

> Regarding equipemnt, we have good fins,  masks, gloves, wetsuits, mouth
> peices and were going to rent the rest.
>
> thanks for any input.
>
> Penny S
Jason O'Rourke - 20 Apr 2004 19:51 GMT
>the island).  The DM gave us a pretty good prep speach.  He said don't
>go below 80 feet, signal me when you get to 1000psi, and again when you
>get to 750psi and then we'll head up.  He told us if we run out of air
>we should go to him for air (i.e. he was going to be our buddy).  I

>As somebody said (I think it was Dillon), DM doesn't stand for Dive
>Mama, and he's not going to handhold you like your instructor did.

It doesn't, but he clearly failed you on that dive.  He ignored the
stated dive plan and put you in a quandry.  You made the correct
decision, but shouldn't have had to.  Many outfits will just ask that
you signal when getting low on air and then surface on your own.  I
like those places.  But the plan is known in advance.
Signature

Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com

Lee Bell - 20 Apr 2004 20:17 GMT
> I guess my lesson learned was 1) Listen to, but don't completely rely on
> your DM (i.e. take care of yourself) and 2) take care of your buddy,
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> the DM to ascend with us.  Instead he stayed with the more experienced
> divers and didn't surface until about 15-20 minutes later.

> As somebody said (I think it was Dillon), DM doesn't stand for Dive
> Mama, and he's not going to handhold you like your instructor did.

> Another bit of advice... watch your ascent rate.  On the drift dives
> (without an ascent line) it's extremely easy to ascend too fast.

Watch your depth both ways.

Lee
DrYak - 21 Apr 2004 01:55 GMT
The other lesson is that you can go up 32 feet and cut your air
consumption dramatically.  So if you get low early, just hang out a
little higher.  Unfortunately when that splendid toad or turtle goes buy
20 feet lower, you should not go down for a closer look.  There's always
the afternoon, tomorrow or next year.

Dr. Yak

>  > Newbie here, be gentle with me.  I have been lurking for some time
> after the
[quoted text clipped - 72 lines]
>  >
>  >
rwjg40 - 21 Apr 2004 16:09 GMT
> Our first dive was in Cozumel on Columbia Deep (at the southern end of
> the island).  The DM gave us a pretty good prep speach.  He said don't
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> so.  My buddy wasn't so fortunate, and ran out of air at the safetystop
> and had to share air with another diver (the DM ignored him as well).

Well, I obviously wasn't there, but the 1000 psi signal to the DM
doesn't necessarily mean it's time to head for the surface.  The DM
wants to know when you hit 1000 psi so that he knows about where you are
in your air consumption; before that it's not as important a variable.
They usually say not to try to give them a number when they signal you
for a reading if you have more than 1000 psi.

Gordon in Austin
Forest Aten - 22 Apr 2004 04:30 GMT
> We leave in about 10 days for our first real dive trip. My hubby and I got
> our OW cert on the Puget sound in November, and the time to get back in the
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> Penny S

Penny,

Just back from Cozumel with a group.

Water was 78/79.....very cool. Air temps last week only got into the high
70's low 80's...lots of North wind.

The group was cold from the get-go. 3 mm full suits and some kind of light
weight hood makes it just right.

The thimble jellyfish are currently in Cozumel by the billions. This is
good...and bad. The thimble stays very near the surface. don't swim in the
middle of the bands of jellies. Their sting is mild but often goes
systemic....avoid them if you can. The good part about the spring jellyfish
bloom is that it brings the turtles to the island. This is prime turtle
time! We observed at least half a dozen green sea turtles on every dive.

Current was very mild....vis was near 200 feet on every dive. Some
rain...bring a poncho.

Eagle rays on Columbia deep and Palancar. Nurse sharks on Cedral, the Bricks
and Santa Rosa Wall.

Have fun.

Forest Aten
Jason O'Rourke - 22 Apr 2004 08:30 GMT
>The thimble jellyfish are currently in Cozumel by the billions. This is
>good...and bad. The thimble stays very near the surface. don't swim in the
>middle of the bands of jellies. Their sting is mild but often goes
>systemic....avoid them if you can. The good part about the spring jellyfish

and yet you just claimed gloves weren't needed.

That's why I make that decision, not you.  
Signature

Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com

 
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