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Scuba Forum / Scuba Locations / January 2006Belize or Cozumel?
If you could go on a 2-week vacation to either Belize or Cozumel, which would you pick, and why? > If you could go on a 2-week vacation to either Belize or Cozumel, which > would you pick, and why? I'd pick Cozumel. I think they diving in Coz is better, the people are nice, and it is just a little closer to home. I dove on the nekton in Belize a couple of years ago, it was great - but I thought the marine life and coral structure was much better in Coz - the hurricane may have changed all that. > I'd pick Cozumel. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I thought the marine life and coral structure was much better in Coz - > the hurricane may have changed all that. I saw a list on scubadiving.com of the top dive destinations in the world, and Cozumel was #2 on the list. Bonaire was #1, and Belize (Ambergris Caye) was way down at #15. Here's a link to the list: http://www.scubadiving.com/community/top_100/top_100%3a_2005_readers%27_choice_a wards/ Do you think Cozumel would be okay for a couple of newly certified divers? I hear they have a lot of strong currents there. >Do you think Cozumel would be okay for a couple of newly certified >divers? I hear they have a lot of strong currents there. Newly certified divers go there all the time. Usually the current is not that bad. If you get ahead of the group just drop behind a coral head and they will catch up. Ron Lee for me...the two biggest thrills of diving in the Caribbean are: 1) Bloody Bay Wall -- Little Cayman 2) The "Blue Hole" in Belize at Lighthouse Reef My wife was totally thrilled with the Blue hole. I did not share that opinion. I thought it was a good but not great dive. Due to the depth it was short and eliminated doing a second dive. Both my wife and I think LC is the best diving we have seen. I must say we have not been past the Caribbean. I was on Little Cayman Diver 3 times before Winston sold it. Best dive vacations I have ever had. >for me...the two biggest thrills of diving in the Caribbean are: > >1) Bloody Bay Wall -- Little Cayman >2) The "Blue Hole" in Belize at Lighthouse Reef > My wife was totally thrilled with the Blue hole. I did not share that > opinion. I thought it was a good but not great dive. Due to the depth > it was short and eliminated doing a second dive. I don't know what to make of this. I've been in the Blue Hole a minimum of 6 times. Each time was it was the first dive of a 3 tank dive day. The follow up dives out at lighthouse, Halfmoon Caye and Aquarium are magnificent. You were robbed. > Both my wife and I think LC is the best diving we have seen. I must > say we have not been past the Caribbean. I was on Little Cayman Diver [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >1) Bloody Bay Wall -- Little Cayman > >2) The "Blue Hole" in Belize at Lighthouse Reef > 2) The "Blue Hole" in Belize at Lighthouse Reef On my trip to Belize I didn't do the Blue Hole for two reasons: 1) It's quite deep, and I didn't feel that comfortable going that deep as a new diver 2) I'm a real air-pig, and at that depth I'd've probably gone down, hung around for a minute, then would have had to have started on my way up. Cheers, Geoff Glave Vancouver, Canada "Geoff Glave" <nospam@nospam.com> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :On my trip to Belize I didn't do the Blue Hole for two reasons: : [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] :2) I'm a real air-pig, and at that depth I'd've probably gone down, hung :around for a minute, then would have had to have started on my way up. Just as well, it's boring. Dan Bracuk If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure. >> 2) The "Blue Hole" in Belize at Lighthouse Reef > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Geoff Glave > Vancouver, Canada Plus it is a 13 hour day if you are based at San Pedro; about $200 US, and most folks will do well if they can get 8 minutes at depth. Rather like going out on a date. W. > most folks will do well if they can get 8 minutes at depth. > > Rather like going out on a date. If I can get 8 minutes at depth on the first or second date I'll be happy.  SignatureSteve The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable belief that it was intended as a statement of fact. If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address. > If I can get 8 minutes at depth on the first or second date I'll be happy. If you ever get a first date I'll be surprised. > If you ever get a first date I'll be surprised. You must be extremely fond of the wit and sophistication of your retorts, what with their perpetual absence. SignatureSteve The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable belief that it was intended as a statement of fact. If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address. >>2) The "Blue Hole" in Belize at Lighthouse Reef > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Geoff Glave > Vancouver, Canada I did the Blue Hole with Amigos del Mar which runs a boat there for themselves and several other dive shops. As I recall the trip is about 1-1/2 hours. You are told to follow the lead dive master (there's another keeping an eye on everyone from the back) and you work your way down to around 130 feet. You can stay a little higher or go a little lower. The bottom is a whole lot deeper. There's a safety stop at about 30 feet where the hole ends onto a sandy surface. I saw a couple of reef sharks there. Or maybe it was one twice. It seemed bored with us. It's a group dive designed for divers with a certain amount of experience, but it is not hard. You don't stay at 130 feet for more than 5 or 10 minutes. One trick you will learn is that you can cut your air consumption a lot by staying 10 feet higher than the others on a dive. I did the Nekton in Belize and have been to Coz numerous times. I like Coz better. If you decide to go to Coz I have some of the VIP passes for the Reef Club http://www.reefclubcozumel.com that Ed Collier sells at his site www.reefclubresort.com this site is only to sell vouchers it has no affiliation with the resort but gives a great description of the vouchers for $225. I bought one from him and liked the place some much I tried to buy more directly from the resort while I was there. I had to buy 20 of them to get any. I want to get down to about ten. I can sell them for $150 since I'm not making a business of it. My email is wtd@cox.net Wherever you go you will have a lot better diving than here in RI. >> I'd pick Cozumel. >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >Do you think Cozumel would be okay for a couple of newly certified >divers? I hear they have a lot of strong currents there. > I did the Nekton in Belize and have been to Coz numerous times. > I like Coz better. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >>Do you think Cozumel would be okay for a couple of newly certified >>divers? I hear they have a lot of strong currents there. The currents can be wild - very wild, the trick is to make sure you have good buoyancy control then let it rip. The dive guides know which way the currents are heading - usually south to north - but they do and will change maybe on the same dive! > The currents can be wild - very wild, the trick is to make sure you have > good buoyancy control then let it rip. The dive guides know which way > the currents are heading - usually south to north - but they do and will > change maybe on the same dive! I'm not too sure that drift diving is such a good idea for a couple novices like us. If it were just me I'd say sure, but my wife's a slightly different story. I'm pretty sure she could handle it, but I'd like her to build up her confidence on something a little more sedate before dumping her into a washing machine. :) Are there any dive sites in Cozumel that don't get a lot of strong currents? "Mick" <micknewton@direcway.com> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :I'm not too sure that drift diving is such a good idea for a couple :novices like us. If it were just me I'd say sure, but my wife's a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] :Are there any dive sites in Cozumel that don't get a lot of strong :currents? All of Cozumel has currents. If it bothers you that much, pick Belize. However, lack of current is never a sure thing. Currents are a function of tides, winds, and just about anything else. However, in Cozumel, they assume that there will be a current and plan for it. This means you surface and the boat comes and gets you. In places where currents are not anticipated but happen anyway, you have to get to the boat, possibly against the current. Dan Bracuk If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure. > All of Cozumel has currents. If it bothers you that much, pick Belize. Well sure, oceans have currents, but some places channel normal tidal flow into really strong currents, and some don't. I imagine the currents in Cozumel are caused by tidal flow wrapping around the island and into the channel. So, are all dives at Cozumel drift dives? >> All of Cozumel has currents. If it bothers you that much, pick Belize. > >Well sure, oceans have currents, but some places channel normal tidal >flow into really strong currents, and some don't. I imagine the >currents in Cozumel are caused by tidal flow wrapping around the island >and into the channel. So, are all dives at Cozumel drift dives? All the dives I've been on in Cozumel were drift dives but they weren't all wild and so were a lot of the ones in Belize. grandma Rosalie "Mick" <micknewton@direcway.com> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :So, are all dives at Cozumel drift dives? Pretty much. And they ain't dificult by any stretch of the imagination. Dan Bracuk If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure. >> So, are all dives at Cozumel drift dives? > Pretty much. And they ain't dificult by any stretch of the > imagination. Dan should have said "most ain't difficult." One of the shallowest dives I ever did in Cozumel was an express ride across the reefs. Of course, Dan is also referring to dives that, otherwise, would be within your comfort level. There are tons of deep sites and both short and long swim throughs that are, independent of current issues, advanced dives. Lee >> The currents can be wild - very wild, the trick is to make sure you have >> good buoyancy control then let it rip. The dive guides know which way [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Are there any dive sites in Cozumel that don't get a lot of strong >currents? As I menioned before, unless you go to Barracuda, the drift dives are not an issue. Many novice divers go to Cozumel with no problems. Ron Lee > As I menioned before, unless you go to Barracuda, the drift dives are > not an issue. Since you made a point of saying it twice, this time, I'll chip in. I don't agree. While Barracuda is clearly more advanced than a lot of the diving in Cozumel, it's not the only site that ever has seriously powerful currents. The strongest current I ever experienced in Cozumel was along a stretch of shallow reef. It was an express train ride that allowed you to pause only by finding a piece of reef to hide behind. Like every place else, currents around Cozumel vary. Sometimes they're strong, sometimes they're not. In Cozumel, they tend to start strong and, at times, get very strong. For the most part, they are not a problem for most divers, but occasionally, they're a challange for even the most experienced, even in places other than Barracuda. Lee >> The currents can be wild - very wild, the trick is to make sure you have >> good buoyancy control then let it rip. The dive guides know which way [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Are there any dive sites in Cozumel that don't get a lot of strong > currents? No, at least not reliably. Even the shore dives I did in Cozumel were usually subject to strong currents. While there are some dives that simulate a washing machine, most are not that drastic. They all, however, can be expected to be drift dives. Cozumel has long been considered to be most suitable for advanced divers. The issue, however, is not the current. It's the nature of wall diving. Crystal clear water and the lack of a horizontal limiting surface (bottom) within recreational diving depths calls for special attention to depth management. It's very easy for even the most experienced diver to forget to monitor depth and descend further than intended without realizing it. The additional task loading is normally considered beyond what a novice, one who has enough new things to think about, should consider. Imagine, if you will, a lovely dive with all kinds of interesting things to look at, that ends with you and your wife deeper than you ever thought you would go, narced to the gills, with a substantial decompression obligation, running low on gas. Go to Belize. Lee > No, at least not reliably. Even the shore dives I did in Cozumel were > usually subject to strong currents. While there are some dives that > simulate a washing machine, most are not that drastic. They all, however, > can be expected to be drift dives. I'm about 90% sure that both of us could handle it without trouble, but I'd rather be closer to 100% sure. We both grew up surfing in southern California, mostly in average size waves, but we've both been out in very large surf a few times too. I realize it's not the same as drift diving, but having your lunch eaten by a few 20' waves definately teaches you to respect the power of moving water. > Cozumel has long been considered to be most suitable for advanced divers. > The issue, however, is not the current. It's the nature of wall diving. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > narced to the gills, with a substantial decompression obligation, running > low on gas. Sounds wonderful... until the last part. :) > Go to Belize. I was wondering about that. It looks like most of the atoll dives are deep, but many of the reef dives are too. I suppose we could take the advanced certification course while were there. That way we would get the certification and the dives too. >> Go to Belize. > > I was wondering about that. It looks like most of the atoll dives are > deep, but many of the reef dives are too. I suppose we could take the > advanced certification course while were there. That way we would get > the certification and the dives too. Deep is it's own risk, but it's different from the risk of diving a wall. When you start a dive over a deep bottom, with the expectation of going to or near that bottom, you can plan the dive and, assuming you can see the bottom, you have a visual reference for how deep you are. That makes it relatively easy to manage your depth according to your dive plan. There are a few key indicators most people use to manage depth. The most common is a visible bottom. If you know the bottom is at 100 feet and you can see you're about 10 feet above it, you know that you are at about 90 feet. Almost everybody, including relative novices, do this more or less automatically. A more subtle indicator is the amount of light. As you descend, the light gets dimmer. This too, is usually an automatic indicator. It's the automatic nature of these indicators that gets a novice into trouble in a place like Cozumel. Automatic indicators don't easily adapt to changed in conditions that affect their usefulness. Take away the visible bottom and increase visibility so much that the light at 200 feet is comparable to what you'd expect at 100, and conditions are set to bring disaster to the unwary. There are other automatic ways to manage your depth. Most experienced divers fell changes in depth in their ears. To do this automatically, however, you have to have experience with doing it, experience that the novice lacks. The most common way for a novice to learn is, of course, to pay closer attention to what one's depth gauge/computer says. A computer with a depth alarm can help . . . provided you hear, see and heed it. The idea of getting an advanced certification while on vacation is, in my opinion, not a bad one. We normally recommend against getting an entry level certification on vacation because of the amount of classroom and confined water time required. That's time you can't spend enjoying your vacation. The advanced course, however, includes little classroom and more diving. You can do the course and enjoy the vacation at the same time. Be careful how you treat the advanced course. As most experienced divers will tell you, having the advanced card does not make you an advanced diver. The course may give you a better understanding of the risks, but it's diving experience that teaches you to manage them effectively. Lee [clip] >> Go to Belize. > > I was wondering about that. It looks like most of the atoll dives are > deep, but many of the reef dives are too. The top of the reef in the Belize atolls is typically at 30-35 feet and the wall typically drops off to hundreds of feet. While you can dive 100+ feet if you want, I typically stick at around 70' until I hit 1500 lbs and then head to the top of the reef and make my way back to the dinghy. I find very little difference in what you see at 100' compared to 70', except that it's darker. Yes you have to watch your depth, but that's just good diving practices. -- Geoff >> The currents can be wild - very wild, the trick is to make sure you have >> good buoyancy control then let it rip. The dive guides know which way [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >like her to build up her confidence on something a little more sedate >before dumping her into a washing machine. :) I wouldn't call them a washing machine. Not sure where you get that idea. Most dives are low/no effort. Just go with the flow. These days many DMs use floats to signal the boat when people start going up. If you're uncomfortable, stick with the guide. Once you've drifted, anything else feels like work. >Are there any dive sites in Cozumel that don't get a lot of strong >currents? Some of the shore dives are okay, as long as you don't stray too far out. I've done Villa Blanca from La Cieba to downtown, so even that's a question. But why are you worried about drift diving? Signaturedillon 666 permissions of the beast >>I'm not too sure that drift diving is such a good idea for a couple >>novices like us. If it were just me I'd say sure, but my wife's a [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >up. If you're uncomfortable, stick with the guide. Once you've >drifted, anything else feels like work. I have been on one "washing machine" dive in Coz. That was a rarity in my experience. Novices dive there safely every day. Ron Lee >>>I'm not too sure that drift diving is such a good idea for a couple >>>novices like us. If it were just me I'd say sure, but my wife's a [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Ron Lee Tormentos is always fun. But nobody takes rookies there. Signaturedillon 666 permissions of the beast >> I'd pick Cozumel. >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > http://www.scubadiving.com/community/top_100/top_100%3a_2005_readers%27_c > hoice_awards/ I had a good laugh at this list. It's clearly driven by the quantity of divers visiting areas and not the quality of dive locations. I live aboard a boat in the Caribbean and dive about 2x per day. I must admit that I haven't dove the Caymans yet, so I can't really comment on that. We expect to do that this year and then spend 2-3 months working through the Bahamas. Also my diving experience is quite a bit different from most of you as I dive off my dinghy with my fiance and maybe 1-2 other cruisers. I would agree that Bonaire would be our #1 choice for fish, coral and accessability. #2 for me would be the atolls of Belize. Unless you're on a live-aboard dive boat it's hard to get to and you have very limited time to spend diving there. However, the fish are amazing (both in quantity and variety), the coral is in fine shape, and most of the time you have 100+ foot visibility. I laughed when I saw that Utila was just slightly behind the Belize atolls as there's nothing that would ever draw me back there except the Whale Sharks. Other than that the only draw is dirt cheap certification. There's virtually no fish, the visibility sucks and the coral is dead. Roatan, Honduras scored well, but I think that's just because so many people go there and get certified. If you don't know any better, it amazing. If you do know better you realize how few fish there are (especially bigger ones) and that the coral has seen better days. Why do you think that they've started charging $1/tank for marine rangers to patrol the area? Because the locals have fished out the area! Cozumel...well, it's close to Cancun and you can get cheap airfare into it. I liked it but wouldn't go gaga over it. The Virgin Islands...over run by tourists. Dominica sure didn't do anything for me, but this may have been limited to our anchorages and where we could get to with the dinghy. My suggestion is to believe the above list, keep going where the throngs of people go and leave the good dive sites to the rest of us! -- Geoff > I had a good laugh at this list. It's clearly driven by the quantity of > divers visiting areas and not the quality of dive locations. I take pretty much everything with a grain or two of salt. Life tastes better that way. :) > I would agree that Bonaire would be our #1 choice for fish, coral and > accessability. #2 for me would be the atolls of Belize. Unless you're on a > live-aboard dive boat it's hard to get to and you have very limited time to > spend diving there. However, the fish are amazing (both in quantity and > variety), the coral is in fine shape, and most of the time you have 100+ foot > visibility. Bonaire will have to wait. It's father away so travel costs more, and it's looking like it might be difficult to get a seat on a plane headed that way. The atolls in Belize sound great. From what I've seen so far, it looks like Lighthouse Reef and The Blue Hole are about 2 hours from Ambergris Caye. Turneffe Atoll is closer, and doing three dives in a day at the Elbow might be worth a long boat ride. > My suggestion is to believe the above list, keep going where the throngs of > people go and leave the good dive sites to the rest of us! If you want uncrowded reefs, I hear southern Belize has lots of it. Thanks for your input! > I saw a list on scubadiving.com of the top dive destinations in the > world, and Cozumel was #2 on the list. Bonaire was #1, and Belize > (Ambergris Caye) was way down at #15. There are all sort sof reason why that list isn't at all useful to any particular diver. I expect there is wide agreement that Bonaire, Coz, and Grand Cayman deserve to be near the top of the list. Most people who have been diving in both Grand Cayman and the sister islands will tell you that Little Cayman and Cayman Brac offer better diving. Why are they so far down the list, compared to Grand Cayman, let alone being behind Cancun? It's not so much that a list like this needs to be taken with a grain of salt as it's important to know what it is that you want in a dive destination. Why is your choice just between Belize and Cozumel? Will your next dive trip be in 6 or 8 months, about a year, or will you only go every couple of years? Unless there's some important reason for Cozumel to be your first trip, your concerns are probably a good reason to make it a future trip. If, for you, it turns out that Coz is better than Belize you'll be disappointed if you go to Coz now and Belize next time. Your first destination is going to be the best diving you've ever done, so you're going to really enjoy it unless something bad happens. Something bad could include currents that are problematic, rough seas, or any of a number of mishaps, and might happen anywhere. Since it sounds like cost may be one of the important criteria for your choice, perhaps you could consider something like Cocoview, which is widely regarded as a good choice for an inexpensive destination that offers as much fairly good diving as you can stand. If you wait a couple of weeks you just might see a trip report or two from some regular posters who are at Cocoview and the west end of Roatan right now. If you want to spend time away from the diving Cocoview (as well as places like Little Cayman, Cayman Brac, and Bonaire) may be bad choices depending on what other stuff you're most interested in. There are plenty of good choices besides Belize and Cozumel that would be fine for new divers, but you need to make the decision based on your likes and dislikes as well as your confidence and skill level. SignatureSteve The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable belief that it was intended as a statement of fact. If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address. > Why is your choice just between Belize and Cozumel? My choices aren't limited to just Belize and Cozumel. It's just that we stopped at both of those places on our vacation last year. We made a trip to Passion Island while we were in Cozumel (beautiful beach. I heard that's where they filmed the Corona beer commercials), and we had a blast on a snorkeling trip out of Belize City. Before we left Belize we decided to get certified and come back and do some diving. Now that we're in the process of getting certified (ocean dives in Puerto Vallarta soon) I started doing a little research on dives sites in Belize. That led to research on other sites, and eventually to the discovery that Cozumel is also one of the world's premier diving locations. Hence the question. There are a lot of great places to dive, all over the world, and I hope we can eventually make it to several of them, again and again, but you've got to start somewhere, right? > Will your next dive trip be in 6 or 8 months, about a year, or will you only go every couple of > years? Our first dive trip starts in January in Puerto Vallarta. I'm just beginning to plan our next trip, which is the reason I'm asking silly questions. It will probably be to Belize. Most likely to one of the resorts on Ambergris Caye, but nothing is written in stone yet. Thanks Steve! > Do you think Cozumel would be okay for a couple of newly certified > divers? I hear they have a lot of strong currents there. I'm newly-certified (September 05) and in October I honeymooned in Belize. Had a GREAT time and the diving was excellent. We stayed on Caye Caulker (http://www.gocayecaulker.com/) and did our diving with Belize Diving Services (http://www.belizedivingservice.com/). They came well-recommended by the manager of our guest house, and she wasn't wrong. We walked the length of Caulker and stopped in at all the dive shops and go the best "vibe" from them. Feel free to email me if you have specific questions: MisterClever at Hotmail dot Com. Cheers, Geoff Glave Vancouver, Canada gglave@softtracks.com pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :Feel free to email me if you have specific questions: MisterClever at :Hotmail dot Com. I'm glad you enjoyed your trip to Belize Geoff. But if people posted specific questions right here, on rec.scuba.locations, then more than one person would hear the answer. Do you do local BC diving also? Dan Bracuk If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure. > I'm glad you enjoyed your trip to Belize Geoff. But if people posted > specific questions right here, on rec.scuba.locations, then more than > one person would hear the answer. It's a good point, but I'm new to this group, so not sure if questions like "where did you stay" or "how did you get there" would be OT. > Do you do local BC diving also? I was only certified last September, so my only BC dives were my open-water certification dives. I would have considered diving here again, but after those warm-water dives in Belize I think I'm spoiled. But I do know a number of people who dive here, and love it. Cheers, Geoff Glave Vancouver, Canada "Geoff Glave" <nospam@nospam.com> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :It's a good point, but I'm new to this group, so not sure if questions like :"where did you stay" or "how did you get there" would be OT. No, that's not OT. Guns and politics are OT. So are discussions about what is and is not on topic. Dan Bracuk If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure. "Mick" <micknewton@direcway.com> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :If you could go on a 2-week vacation to either Belize or Cozumel, which :would you pick, and why? My only trip to Belize was on a liveaboard so I don't know what it is like there staying at a resort. I have also been to Cozumel half a dozen times and know how nice it is. If it was a one week vacation I might take a chance on the great unknown, but for two weeks, I'd go with what I know is good, Cozumel. Dan Bracuk If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure. > My only trip to Belize was on a liveaboard so I don't know what it is > like there staying at a resort. I have also been to Cozumel half a > dozen times and know how nice it is. > > If it was a one week vacation I might take a chance on the great > unknown, but for two weeks, I'd go with what I know is good, Cozumel. If the extra travel doesn't cost too much, I suppose we could do one week in Cozumel and one in Belize. I'd probably be dead after two weeks, but it might be a fun way to go. :) Did you have a nice time on the liveaboard in Belize? >> My only trip to Belize was on a liveaboard so I don't know what it is >> like there staying at a resort. I have also been to Cozumel half a [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Did you have a nice time on the liveaboard in Belize? We did. For intense diving, I recommend it. But if you want your money's worth, you almost have to take the full 5 dives a day. Or more if you can sneak one in. The food is a variable, sleeping quarters depend on how much you want to spend, but the ship can deliver you to locations too remote for a land based operator, or more of them. I think our next liveaboard will be the Cayman Agressor or T&C. Signaturedillon 666 permissions of the beast Dillon Pyron <dmpyronINVALID@austin.rr.com> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: : I think our next liveaboard will be the Cayman Agressor or :T&C. The T&C A is on my radar for the late winter early spring. When were you thinking of going? Dan Bracuk If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure. >Dillon Pyron <dmpyronINVALID@austin.rr.com> pounded away at his >keyboard resulting in: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >The T&C A is on my radar for the late winter early spring. When were >you thinking of going? If things go well, it would have to be between the fall and spring semesters or during spring break. I'm told that with my GPA I have a good chance of getting in. >Dan Bracuk >If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure. > >----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- >http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups >----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- Signaturedillon 666 permissions of the beast >If you could go on a 2-week vacation to either Belize or Cozumel, which >would you pick, and why? I would go to Belize, although the reefs are much less colorful than Cozumel and I think accessing the big sites is harder in Belize. But travel is easier because English is spoken. I wouldn't want to be in Cozumel for that long because I like to do and see things that aren't under water, and that's more varietal in Belize. I'd take a live-aboard out to the outer cays, and then when I was thoroughly sated with diving, I'd see something of the country. grandma Rosalie > I would go to Belize, although the reefs are much less colorful than > Cozumel and I think accessing the big sites is harder in Belize. But [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > live-aboard out to the outer cays, and then when I was thoroughly > sated with diving, I'd see something of the country. If we go to Belize, we'll probably stay somewhere on Ambergris Caye. If we can afford it, we might do both, Cozumel and Belize. Life is short and vacations are too far apart. :) If I have to pick just one though, then it's going to be hard to decide. >> I would go to Belize, although the reefs are much less colorful than >> Cozumel and I think accessing the big sites is harder in Belize. But [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >we can afford it, we might do both, Cozumel and Belize. Life is short >and vacations are too far apart. :) Ambergris is nice, but some of the "big" destinations (i.e. the Blue Hole) are a long boat trip away from there It's pretty difficult to get from Belize to Cozumel and v.v. Both places are pretty cheap to stay at, but my impression is that Cozumel is cheaper to get to (air fare) because more people go to that area. >If I have to pick just one though, then it's going to be hard to >decide. grandma Rosalie > Ambergris is nice, but some of the "big" destinations (i.e. the Blue > Hole) are a long boat trip away from there It's pretty difficult to > get from Belize to Cozumel and v.v. It's an easy bus ride. >> Ambergris is nice, but some of the "big" destinations (i.e. the Blue >> Hole) are a long boat trip away from there It's pretty difficult to >> get from Belize to Cozumel and v.v. > >It's an easy bus ride. You have a strange idea of "easy". Signaturedillon 666 permissions of the beast >>> Ambergris is nice, but some of the "big" destinations (i.e. the Blue >>> Hole) are a long boat trip away from there It's pretty difficult to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > You have a strange idea of "easy". If you don't have to push the bus, you're probably sitting in the bus. How hard can that be? In this case, you get on a bus in Belize City. Get off the bus at the Mexican border at Chetumal. Walk across border. Get on bus at Chetumal. Get off bus in Playa del Carmen. Take ferry to Cozumel. That's easier than dealing with airports. For me to get home from Roatan I had to take a van to the Roatan airport, take a plane to La Ceiba, change planes and fly to San Pedro Sula, change planes and fly to Sal Salvador, change planes and fly to LAX, wait in several lines, take a shuttle to my car, drive one hour. That sounds a heck of a lot more difficult than taking a bus from Belize to Cozumel, yet I thought that too was easy. Perhaps you're better traveling from your armchair, or you do believe in magic carpet rides? "Greg Mossman" <mossman@qnet.com> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: : take a plane to La Ceiba, change planes and fly to :San Pedro Sula, A domestic flight to San Pedro Sula? Was the sign still there? Dan Bracuk If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure. (snip)For me to get home from Roatan I had to take a van > to the Roatan airport, take a plane to La Ceiba, change planes and fly to > San Pedro Sula, change planes and fly to Sal Salvador, change planes and fly > to LAX, wait in several lines, take a shuttle to my car, drive one hour. That's cuz you are crazy. Everyone else just took a direct flight out of Houston. Oh, wait, there was that other guy who routed himself through Chicago. Never mind. > That sounds a heck of a lot more difficult than taking a bus from Belize to > Cozumel, yet I thought that too was easy. Perhaps you're better traveling > from your armchair, or you do believe in magic carpet rides? Sounds to me like you were the one taken for a ride. >If we go to Belize, we'll probably stay somewhere on Ambergris Caye Take a look at Caye Caulker too - It's more laid back than Ambergris. If you want to visit Ambergris it's an easy day trip from Caulker. See my other post. Cheers, Geoff Glave Vancouver, Canada > Take a look at Caye Caulker too - It's more laid back than Ambergris. > If you want to visit Ambergris it's an easy day trip from Caulker. See > my other post. I've been trying to check out all of the options, including resorts on the atolls and liveaboards. There are a lot of hotels, resorts, condos, and other rentals available, and I'm considering them all. So far, I'm still leaning towards Ambergris Caye. Diving at the atolls would certainly be much more convenient if you're staying there, either in one of the resorts, or on a liveaboard. But, I'm also a photographer and there's more photo oportunities on Ambergris Caye than on the atolls, at least above water. Eventually I want to try my hand at underwater photography. I hope to be able to buy an Ikelite water housing for my Canon 10D camera before we head down that way. If I do, that might affect my decision on where to stay. Thanks Geoff! > I hope to > be able to buy an Ikelite water housing for my Canon 10D camera before > we head down that way. Make sure you can also buy a strobe or you may be disappointed. SignatureSteve The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable belief that it was intended as a statement of fact. If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address. > Make sure you can also buy a strobe or you may be disappointed. Absolutely! I've been looking at Ikelite gear for my Canon 10D. The housing, lens port, and strobe would cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $2,500 though, so it may be tough to get that past the boss. :) Besides all the scuba stuff that I've bought recently, I've also spent almost $14K on camera gear over the past year or so. >>Make sure you can also buy a strobe or you may be disappointed. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Besides all the scuba stuff that I've bought recently, I've also spent > almost $14K on camera gear over the past year or so. That's why I bought a used Nikonos V and lens with a SB 105 strobe on eBay for a little under $500. I spent another $200 having it checked out and a problem with the strobe connector fixed. I've got a Canon G5 digital for above water that I'll upgrade to a Nikon D70 sometime. > Make sure you can also buy a strobe or you may be disappointed. I disagree. With most modern digital cameras you don't need strobes to sufficiently illuminate your subject. These photo's http://www.pathcom.com/~u1072675/ were all taken a couple of weeks ago without a strobe. This one, http://www.pathcom.com/~u1072675/grouper10.jpg, was taken with almost no ambient light. It was early in the morning, sun low in the sky, on a north facing wall. Depth was ~ 60 ft. Having used a strobe in the past, not having to use one now is great. Less stuff to worry about, fewer batteries to charge, and no noticeable difference in the photos. >> Make sure you can also buy a strobe or you may be disappointed. > >I disagree. With most modern digital cameras you don't need strobes to >sufficiently illuminate your subject. These photo's >http://www.pathcom.com/~u1072675/ were all taken a couple of weeks ago >without a strobe. File1 has a distinct shadow from additional light as best I can tell. Ron Lee Most of his shots include additional light. If he's not using a strobe, he's getting more than his money's worth out of an internal flash. Lee >>> Make sure you can also buy a strobe or you may be disappointed. >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Ron Lee nospamronlee@pcisys.net (Ron Lee) pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :File1 has a distinct shadow from additional light as best I can tell. That would be the camera's internal flash, which is not a strobe. Dan Bracuk If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure. >nospamronlee@pcisys.net (Ron Lee) pounded away at his keyboard >resulting in: > >:File1 has a distinct shadow from additional light as best I can tell. > >That would be the camera's internal flash, which is not a strobe. Good point Dan. It seemed that most had additional lighting since the colors were so vibrant. Good pics and I don't see significant (or any) backscatter using the internal flash. What would you say is the max range using internal flash? Ron Lee nospamronlee@pcisys.net (Ron Lee) pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :Good point Dan. It seemed that most had additional lighting since the :colors were so vibrant. Good pics and I don't see significant (or :any) backscatter using the internal flash. : :What would you say is the max range using internal flash? You don't see backscatter because I either: a. don't show people photos with backscatter, or b. edit out the backscatter. The maximum range depends on the amount of ambient light. With all cameras, just because you can take pictures at a distance doesn't mean that you should. Bad things start to happen. First, your images are less sharp because you are shooting through more water and the light is refracting more. Second, you get more backscatter. If you re-visit http://www.pathcom.com/~u1072675/, look at pat2.jpg. That photo was taken at a range of about 10 ft. Regarding the vibrant colours, I cheat. I edit just about every photo I take. It's worth it. I also use software you have to buy (Microsoft Digital Image Pro) rather than the freebies you get with cameras. Same link as the previous paragraph, select the beforeafter link and look at both image and you'll see why. By the way, my previous camera had an external strobe and the benefits of editing were similar. Dan Bracuk If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure. > Regarding the vibrant colours, I cheat. I edit just about every photo I take. That's not cheating, just S.O.P. for digital photography. I've developed photo album software packages for Canon, and I've been doing digital photography since it first became available, and I can count the number of photos that didn't need editing without taking my shoes off. I spent several hours working with this photo, but it paid off because I sold usage rights to the photo to a New York Times/Forbes columnist. I made a good chunk of change, and I wasn't even trying to sell the photo. I took this shot on the beach at Isla de la Pasion (Passion Island) on the north end of Cozumel last year. http://micknewton.smugmug.com/photos/13182024-M.jpg On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 19:14:34 -0800, bracuk wrote: >> Make sure you can also buy a strobe or you may be disappointed. > > I disagree. With most modern digital cameras you don't need strobes to > sufficiently illuminate your subject. What kind of camera were you using? <nospam@all.please.net> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :What kind of camera were you using? Sony Cybershot. 4.1 megapixels. Dan Bracuk If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure. >>Make sure you can also buy a strobe or you may be disappointed. > > I disagree. The poster I was responding to weighed in and he disagrees with you. Of course he's a serious photographer with a good camera and he's willing to spend the money on tools that can help produce better results. That's good, because the onboard strobe on his camera can't be used in the Ikelite housing. Plenty of other people are happy with the shots they get from a cheapy UW disposable, backscatter and all. > With most modern digital cameras you don't need strobes to > sufficiently illuminate your subject. Then why did you use your camera's built in strobe for your shots? You can say it's not a strobe, but it is. It's just not as powerful and versatile as an external strobe. > This one, http://www.pathcom.com/~u1072675/grouper10.jpg, was taken > with almost no ambient light. It was early in the morning, sun low in > the sky, on a north facing wall. Depth was ~ 60 ft. The left half of the picture is very nice. I feel the same way about a number of my shots. I have several pictures of pink and blue bi-color sponges that tell me I need a second strobe. > Less stuff to worry about, fewer batteries to charge, Sometimes I just leave my camera at home when I go out. That's really hassle free. Getting any photos at all requires a little bit of extra effort, and getting good photos requires even more. It's up to the individual to decide what results they want and if it's worth the necessary effort. > and no noticeable difference in the photos. Maybe you just never learned how to use your external strobe well (it's definitely not a simple skill), or maybe you're overdue for your next eye exam. You got some nice, pleasant shots, but even after your improvements not one of them is excellent. If that's enough to make you happy or you don't want to go to extra effort for better quality, that's fine. SignatureSteve The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable belief that it was intended as a statement of fact. If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address. > Then why did you use your camera's built in strobe for your shots? You can > say it's not a strobe, but it is. It's just not as powerful and versatile > as an external strobe. True, but not particularly relevant to Dan's point. >> and no noticeable difference in the photos. > Maybe you just never learned how to use your external strobe well (it's > definitely not a simple skill), or maybe you're overdue for your next eye > exam. You got some nice, pleasant shots, but even after your improvements > not one of them is excellent. Depends on your perspective. I think the shot of the butterfly fish was excellent. The bright color of the fish, combined with the muted color of the background certainly made the fish stand out. While I'm fully convinced that the right way to go is with more than one strobe, I's have been proud of that picture whether I used a strobe or not. Lee > I'm still leaning towards Ambergris Caye Not to be a broken record, but having recently been to both places, I think Caye Caulker is much nicer than Ambergris Caye. If you want to visit Ambergris it's a quick boat ride from Caulker, but Caulker is much more laid-back and relaxed. Cheers, Geoff Glave Vancouver, Canada > Not to be a broken record, but having recently been to both places, I think > Caye Caulker is much nicer than Ambergris Caye. If you want to visit > Ambergris it's a quick boat ride from Caulker, but Caulker is much more > laid-back and relaxed. Thanks for the tip Geoff. I just started looking into Caye Caulker. Have you ever checked out tripadvisor? (http://www.tripadvisor.com) Today I read several reviews about resorts on Ambergris Caye. It was very interesting. Most of the resorts that I thought would be rated the highest (basically the most expensive ones) turned out to have the very worst reviews. And, some of the resorts that I probably wouldn't have considered had the very best reviews. The resort ranked #1 (out of 42) was The Belizean Shores. It has 30 reviews, and everyone seems to love the place. I haven't looked on tripadvisor for Caye Caulker yet, but I will. > Today I read several reviews about resorts on Ambergris Caye. It was > very interesting. Most of the resorts that I thought would be rated the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > was The Belizean Shores. It has 30 reviews, and everyone seems to love > the place. Reviews provide another's experience. Temper experience with expectation and gain insight. When you expect the "best" you may be disappointed for fault relatively small. When you don't expect much, it's relatively easy to exceed expectations and find complete satisfaction. >> Today I read several reviews about resorts on Ambergris Caye. It was >> very interesting. Most of the resorts that I thought would be rated the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > it's relatively easy to exceed expectations and find complete > satisfaction. I'm typically in Cay Caulker and San Pedro/Ambergris Cay several times per year. However, I live aboard my boat so I can't tell you much about lodging there. Personally I like Cay Caulker better than San Pedro as it's much more layed back. San Pedro has too much traffic on very narrow streets. Granted it's mostly golf cart traffic, but there are some pretty big golf carts and the drivers can be very agressive. Of course, it's all relative. San Pedro does have a lot more restaurants and things to do. I think that you'd be happy wherever you went. If you want to read some of my trip reports and photosfrom both areas, please see: Photos: http://www.geoffschultz.org/2003_Sailing/Belize_Cay_Caulker/index.html http://www.geoffschultz.org/2005_Sailing/Belize_Ambergris/ Reports: http://www.geoffschultz.org/2003_Sailing/Reports/Belize_Cay_Caulker.html http://www.geoffschultz.org/2003_Sailing/Reports/Belize_San_Pedro.html http://www.geoffschultz.org/2004_Sailing/Reports/Belize_Caye_Caulker.html There are more reports from the area, but they're boating related. For info on diving in Belize: http://www.geoffschultz.org/Diving_Reports.html -- Geoff (the other one who knows how to spell it correctly) Geoff Schultz <geoffAT@geoffschultz.org> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :There are more reports from the area, but they're boating related. For info :on diving in Belize: : :http://www.geoffschultz.org/Diving_Reports.html There are some very nice pictures in these reports. In the San Andres report, what do you mean by, "I used my digital camera to copy my underwater shots."? Did you photograph some prints or something? Dan Bracuk If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure. > Geoff Schultz <geoffAT@geoffschultz.org> pounded away at his keyboard > resulting in: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Dan Bracuk Before I got my digital underwater camera I used to scan the film at home, but in this case I directly photographed the prints while on the boat so that I could give a copy of the shots to a boat that we were travelling with. I was surprised at how well the copies turned out. -- Geoff > Reviews provide another's experience. Temper experience with expectation > and gain insight. When you expect the "best" you may be disappointed for > fault relatively small. When you don't expect much, it's relatively easy to > exceed expectations and find complete satisfaction. It's true that reviews only give you an account of someone else's experience, and your mileage may vary, but if 30 people give rave reviews about one place and 30 other people give bad reviews about another, which would you choose? What really struck me as being a little odd were the resorts with severely mixed reviews. The reviews on one of the more expensive resorts was split roughly in half, with one half saying the place was horrible and a total rip-off, and the other half saying they loved everything about the place. I can only guess that the service there must be wildly sporadic. I you go, you may be one of the lucky ones and have a great time, or you may be unlucky and have a terrible time. In addition, some of these resorts are charging over $400 per night for a room. For that much money I would expect at least a decent experience and a certain level of comfort and cleanliness, no matter what. If the place can't even be bothered to provide clean sheets then they shouldn't be charging top dollar. At Geoff's suggestion, I checked out some of the reviews for Caye Caulker, and was surprised to find out that because of a drought there is currently no fresh water on the island. You have to bathe in saltwater. Can you imagine spending a week diving without being able to wash off in fresh water? Eventually you'd be one big salt crystal! Of course, none of the advertising for these resorts even hints that that might be the case. I wouldn't have known if I hadn't read the reviews. > At Geoff's suggestion, I checked out some of the reviews for Caye > Caulker, and was surprised to find out that because of a drought there > is currently no fresh water on the island. ???? Really ???? - I find that incredibly hard to believe. When I was there two months ago, like most of the Caribbean, it rained every day at night. I'd definitely email a few hotels and confirm there's no fresh water on the island. They certainly ask you to "conserve" water, but we weren't bathing in salt water. Cheers, Geoff Glave Vancouver, Canada > They certainly ask you to "conserve" water, but we weren't bathing in > salt water. Sorry, my bad. The review that reported no water was from back in mid June. The ones after that don't mention any lack of water. So, they get all of their water from rain? Doh! I suppose they have to unless they have it shipped in, in which case it might be pretty expensive to take a shower. I guess drilling a well wouldn't work too well on a little island that's only a few feet above sea level. :) Mick says, "What did I tell you about shooting your stupid mouth off before you think?" The other Mick replies, "Shuddup Jackass! Leave me alone!" > So, they get > all of their water from rain? Well, I didn't tour the waterworks :) but my sense was all the water was captured rainwater. Everyone had a huge cistern next to their place. Like most of the Caribbean it rained when we were asleep, so I assume that's what filled the cisterns. I saw a lot of this in Cuba too. All over the island you saw signs asking people to conserve water, and taps etc. automatically switched off, so you can tell it's a valuable resource, but I showered every day. I never drank the tap water though - Always drank bottled water. I just bought a 4-liter jug at the grocery store and refilled our smaller bottles. Usually I would shower at the end of the day, once I was done swimming for the day, then we'd go out for dinner. Cheers, Geoff Glave Vancouver, Canada > > Not to be a broken record, but having recently been to both places, I think > > Caye Caulker is much nicer than Ambergris Caye. If you want to visit [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > was The Belizean Shores. It has 30 reviews, and everyone seems to love > the place. Belizean Shores has a fabulous pool and a great view. However, it's a pain in the butt to get to town in the evening. If you want some nightlife, then you'll want to stay south of the cut. If you want to live quietly at a resort reminiscent of other resorts you've stayed at in the past, then Belizean Shores is a good choice. > I haven't looked on tripadvisor for Caye Caulker yet, but I will. > If you could go on a 2-week vacation to either Belize or Cozumel, which > would you pick, and why? I'd go for Belize because some of the shallower Coz reefs are still closed for diving due to Wilma damage, and hotels are still rebuilding themselves. Signaturejer email reply - I am not a 'ten' I don't know about Belice but I can tell u something, if u can see coral reef both places then bet for the one u can go to cenotes (i do not know if at Belice there are cenotes). Coral reefs u can see em lots of places around the world but cenotes, incredible diving experience, u can only see'em at Yucatan. > I don't know about Belice but I can tell u something, if u can see > coral reef both places then bet for the one u can go to cenotes (i do > not know if at Belice there are cenotes). Coral reefs u can see em lots > of places around the world but cenotes, incredible diving experience, u > can only see'em at Yucatan. I'm pretty sure Belize has cenotes, but cave diving doesn't really interest me too much right now. Maybe in the future that will change, who knows. alvakoldo wrote: > I don't know about Belice but I can tell u something, if u can see > coral reef both places then bet for the one u can go to cenotes (i do > not know if at Belice there are cenotes). Coral reefs u can see em lots > of places around the world but cenotes, incredible diving experience, u > can only see'em at Yucatan. Let's keep in mind that we're talking about somebody that is not experienced enough to feel comfortable drift diving. Cenotes, swimthroughs, blue holes, caves and the inside of wrecks are all really cool places to dive . . . when you're ready to dive them safely. Lee "Mick" <micknewton@direcway.com> wrote in news:1135967035.384734.86490 @f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com: >> I don't know about Belice but I can tell u something, if u can see >> coral reef both places then bet for the one u can go to cenotes (i do [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > interest me too much right now. Maybe in the future that will change, > who knows. While they do have cenotes, I've never seen any dive company advertise diving at them. -- Geoff |
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