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Scuba Forum / Scuba Locations / November 2005Mabul versus Kapalai
Hi everyone, I want to get as much Sipadan diving in as possible but noticed that there are contradictory info about various resorts and quality of dive masters etc. I was thinking of the Mabul Water Bungalows howefver they are the most expensive of the lot. Any ideas? Also I was thinking 4 days and 4 nights, is that a reasonable time? cheers Wine > Hi everyone, > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Also I was thinking 4 days and 4 nights, is that a reasonable time? I spent 7 nights Sipadan/Mabul and could have stayed another 3 easily. Not much to do in the evenings, but the diving was great. The Borneo Divers resort's grounds weren't the prettiest, but their rooms were comfy, the great room is quite nice and the food was alright. Everything was pretty new in spring 2004, but the shop was nice, good boats and I liked the DM's. I went down to the Water Village for a walk. It was pretty cool, visually. Don't know that it was worth any extra money just for that though. Depends on what your after, I guess. Just look at Dave Morgan. He likes staying out on the rig platform resort. To each his own. > cheers > Wine > Just look at Dave Morgan. He likes staying out on the rig platform > resort. > To each his own. I have been there 5 or 6 times now, mostly on the Rig its quiet, and thats how i like it. Its cheap/inexpensive, you can strap a tank on and dive as much as you like, no extra cost for that, i have done 100 + dives around Sipadan, Mabul, Kapalai and for me the best dive is allways under the Rig, under it and 100 yards around it. We stopped going to Sipadan, how many Turtles and Sharks do you want to count ? Mabul....Paradise...is ok, full of surprising critters, the Mandarins are excellent if you can get to see them. Kapali.....is beautiful and i have had some good dives there but not as prolific as under the Rig. The Rig is a bit "industrial" and not to everyones liking, the guides are good, we enjoy the food, evening meal out on the "helipad" at the back is great, sitting talking and exchanging dive stories untill sleep beckons.I think you have to look at these places and judge them on what your looking for....... Dave Morgan @ Work in the UK Take out the "goes diving" bit.... Trip photos on line at www.morg.co.uk >I want to get as much Sipadan diving in as possible but noticed that >there are contradictory info about various resorts and quality of dive >masters etc. You might want to give a look at this message of mine: gef2i1davlsil9putrcmltdc0lohpkv0j4@4ax.com You probably know that resorts on Sipadan itself have been closed down. I would go back to Kapalai: first dive at Sipadan at 6.00am, back to Kapalai for breakfast, two more dives at Sipadan at 9.00am and 11.00am. Afternoon dive at either Kapalai or Mabul. >I was thinking of the Mabul Water Bungalows howefver they are the most >expensive of the lot. Any ideas? I was there in 99, too far away for comparison. If had to say, I found rooms and food better at Kapalai, Mabul's DMs were better and nicer; all of them leave you pretty much on your own... thought it was great but you might disagree. >Also I was thinking 4 days and 4 nights, is that a reasonable time? My advice: stay as long as you can, you won't regret it. On my last time there, I spent 10 nights and wished I had had more... Vic Thanks for that, That has given me a lot to go on. Is the Turtle cavern worth going to? John > >I want to get as much Sipadan diving in as possible but noticed that > >there are contradictory info about various resorts and quality of dive [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Vic > Is the Turtle cavern worth going to? For me it was, very memorable, not for the faint hearted though as it is enourmous in there, once you have entered the entrance and swam in for some way the entrance to the "Tomb" is up on the left, once in there it is completely black so you need god torches, and i dont mean dive center torches, we spent 30 minutes in there, it is completely disorientating, was for me anyway, at one point we could look out the "window" out to the reef wall but if lost you would not get out of the window. It would be easy to get lost in there, personly i think it should be "lined" but there is an argument for not doing so. Would i do it again..yes with two of everything.......with 12ltr singles and a shared torch.............nope........ If Turtles drown in there because they cant find there way out.....(well we assume that) then it can happen to others...... Dave Morgan @ Work in the UK > Thanks for that, > > That has given me a lot to go on. Is the Turtle cavern worth going to? > > John I guess not every dive operator is willing to let divers enter the cavern, which is actually a very good thing. However, if you're qualified to do that and have a gear to safely visit the cavern I guess you won't regret it. I haven't been inside myself, but the images and videos I've seen are quite impressive, though also a bit sad in a way. What comes to dive operators, I was very satisfied with Borneo Divers' quality of service and friendliness and expertise of the staff. Their Mabul resort is very nice indeed, but that goddamn rig is blocking the view... - Miika - > but that goddamn rig is blocking the > view... Of What ??????? Funny thing that.......from my perspective its "that godam Mabul Island that blocks the view of Sipadan" Dave Morgan @ Work in the UK >> but that goddamn rig is blocking the >>view... [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Dave Morgan @ Work in the UK I saw that coming =D Okay, I'll admit... there's not much to block. But anyway, when you're looking from the beach you could happily live without the rig being there. It just doesn't seem to belong there. > *From:* Miika_Härkönen<n@a.com> > *Date:* Thu, 03 Nov 2005 18:03:22 GMT > I saw that coming =D It was kinda beggin for it.......;^) > Okay, I'll admit... there's not much to block. But anyway, when you're > looking from the beach you could happily live without the rig being > there. It just doesn't seem to belong there. Yes, it is a little "industrial"..........and if had stayed on Mabul as often as i had on the platform i would probably be taking your stance. But i have great memories of our time's on the "Rig".....we have made good friends there, friends i have had mail from this very morn, so i am biased by my association. Having said that it makes for a fantastic artificial reef, when we first went there we did the normal dive tourist trips out to Sipadan each morn, but once we actually started to "look" and i mean look, the stuff under and around the platform is amazing, every dive we would find something different. The last two trips out there we never bothered going to Sipadan and only went to Mabul and Kapalai once, all the diving was done underneath. So my defence of the "ugly monstrosity" is borne out of a fondness created over time, i could quite happily dive there 7 days a week. But in our quest for something different we have decided to try a little further east, in about 4 weeks we are of to dive the Lembeh Straights for a week, then on to do some diving for another week around Manado and Bunaken in Sulawesi, we are looking forward to even stranger critters........ Take care....... Dave Morgan @ Work in the UK www.seatreker.com > Thanks for that, > > That has given me a lot to go on. Is the Turtle cavern worth going to? > > John There's been a history of people going into the cavern from various dive centres with a guide from some of the resorts on Sipadan, but they usually go in without any lines, which I personally think to be close to insanity. Having been in the cavern numerous times, I would think definitely think twice before letting any random dive guide leade me in. As Dave mentioned, the cavern reaches quite far back, and to see the various turtle remains you are sometimes beyond the reach of cavern (area from which you still see the light of the entrance). Even going in this far really requires a couple of good lights and a long reel, so if you have any sense of self-preservation I recommend you think carefully about who you let guide you in there. Sipadan Mabul Resort (SMART) have a technical dive centre, so someone from there should be able to sort out either a safe guided dive, or a TDI Cavern course, depending on your whim. Stan > *From:* G Winstanley <grost@NOSPAM.yahoo.co.uk> > *Date:* Fri, 04 Nov 2005 05:43:49 GMT > There's been a history of people going into the cavern from various dive > centres with a guide from some of the resorts on Sipadan, but they > usually go in without any lines, which I personally think to be close to > insanity. We went in with our guide without lines, singles, the guide the same and he only had a "dive center" torch, you know the ones with batteries and a power output of about......oh as much as two or three candles...... But he did know his way around, we had my wifes video lighting which creates virtual "daylight" and you still could'nt see the walls. > Having been in the cavern numerous times, I would think > definitely think twice before letting any random dive guide leade me in. Yes i would want to know that they knew the place like the back of their hand. > As Dave mentioned, the cavern reaches quite far back, and to see the > various turtle remains you are sometimes beyond the reach of cavern > (area from which you still see the light of the entrance). From my recollection you would never see daylight once you entered the "tomb", the entrance to the tomb is maybe 70 yards up the cavern entrance from where you can see daylight, well the dark blue glow anyway. Once you enter the small hole into the tomb you have left any light source behind except what you are carrying, from the that "hole" it is still quite a way into the tomb itself IIRC, and its a massive chamber, if a diver suffers from the slightest hint of claustrophobia then this is not the place for them. > Even going in > this far really requires a couple of good lights and a long reel, I would go so far as to recommend a glow stick at the entrance and a couple laid down to mark the way out, if i did it again i think i would actually do that. > so if > you have any sense of self-preservation I recommend you think carefully > about who you let guide you in there. Sipadan Mabul Resort (SMART) have > a technical dive centre, so someone from there should be able to sort > out either a safe guided dive, or a TDI Cavern course, depending on your > whim. Good advice......i would want a spar tank and a couple of good torches, UK400's or the like. Anyway i would allways advise that if the slightest feeling of apprehension rears its head then dont do it.......it aint worth it. Dave Morgan @ Work in the UK www.seatreker.com > We went in with our guide without lines, singles, the guide the same and > he only had a "dive center" torch, you know the ones with batteries and a > power output of about......oh as much as two or three candles...... > But he did know his way around, we had my wifes video lighting which > creates virtual "daylight" and you still could'nt see the walls. Ha ha...so true about the dc torches - give me a Kowalski or Light Cannon any day. Fair enough about guides knowing their way, but what happens when the guide has an accident for some reason? Hmmm...people lost in cavern with no line out. Understood about the video lights, but sometimes less light is more in environments like that, then you stand a chance of seeing the exit light. > From my recollection you would never see daylight once you entered the > "tomb", the entrance to the tomb is maybe 70 yards up the cavern entrance [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > diver suffers from the slightest hint of claustrophobia then this is not > the place for them. That's kind of right, yes. There are actually skeletons in various different places, rather than all the turtles deciding to end up just in the tomb area, but you're right in that where the majority of them are located is out of sight of the entrance (in about 50m in, up a bit, over, round and to the left). It's ok once you know you're way around, but I wouldn't like to have a failed light in there without a line. I did an entertaining blind exit drill (light off, mask off, silt kicked up) along a line from the tomb area, and I would definitely not like to repeat the experience without a line! > > Even going in > > this far really requires a couple of good lights and a long reel, > > I would go so far as to recommend a glow stick at the entrance and a > couple laid down to mark the way out, if i did it again i think i would > actually do that. Good plan - I'd mark the line with the glowstix at crucial points. Trouble with being diligent sometimes is that the dive guides can use them as references on the way in, and then find them gone on the way out. Not the best situation for any new dive guides who decide it's time they lead tourists into the cavern. > > so if > > you have any sense of self-preservation I recommend you think carefully [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Anyway i would allways advise that if the slightest feeling of > apprehension rears its head then dont do it.......it aint worth it. Similarly good advice, although I'd definitely plan to not need the spare tank at all - probably find it gone when you return with all the traffic in there. And as you say, cavern/cave doesn't seem to be the sort of place to take indecisiveness/apprehension; life's worth a little more than that. Stan > Ha ha...so true about the dc torches - give me a Kowalski or Light > Cannon any day. Fair enough about guides knowing their way, but what > happens when the guide has an accident for some reason? Hmmm...people > lost in cavern with no line out. Understood about the video lights, but > sometimes less light is more in environments like that, then you stand a > chance of seeing the exit light. I was just saying how we "did" it, not how i would do it again, i agree with you, sh.t happens, lord knows what we would have done if the guide had an accident..........jesus, makes you shudder.......all the talk about doubling up and spare this and that starts to come into its own here.... So......should entrance to the tomb be left to the individual guides to decide how and when they take guests in there ? my gut feeling is that they should not, it should be regulated...... Dave Morgan @ Work in the UK Take out the "goes diving" bit.... Trip photos on line at www.morg.co.uk > > Ha ha...so true about the dc torches - give me a Kowalski or Light > > Cannon any day. Fair enough about guides knowing their way, but what [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > decide how and when they take guests in there ? my gut feeling is that > they should not, it should be regulated...... I think it's unlikely that they'll stop taking people in there, but I believe that each dive centre that does guided dives should at least make sure all the guides are well-versed in cavern diving techniques, and put them into practice sufficiently to cover the basic potential problems. It's easy enough to reel into the thing for a quick look around, so I don't understand why they don't do it. I guess the general attitude is that if the guide feels happy, then presumably the other divers are too, despite the guides diving every day and many of the tourists only doing a week-long trip once a year. Accidents do and will happen, and as in so many cases it's probably this that will wake them up to taking a few extra precautions. It's a little like a UK-run voluntary survey organisation I worked for in Mexico a couple of years ago. I was hired to run the diving side of the operation, but the project leader kept overruling my decisions, thinking he knew better - sending boats out in bad seas during hurricane season, using boat drivers with no licence/experience, as well as other non-diving things like forgetting to put in orders for drinking water to our remote site. Anyway, he got struck down by the god of probability and was himself the first person to disappear to the chamber with DCS. Needless to say I quit that job fairly quickly after experiencing his idiocy. Sadly the organisation is still going, so I just hope nobody's died since then and they've tightened up their protocols. The day I left one of the volunteers had to go to the chamber after doing a bit of freediving following a dive. Needless to say that project leader was on that boat as well and didn't think to stop it happening. Maybe Darwin will take care of him eventually... Stan Hmm Apprehension, I thought it would be a good idea to have a look but I haven't done much caving so don't really want to start with a half trained guide and dodgy equipment. I imagine it is OK once you learn your way around it is jus the fear before you get to that stage. Are there a lot of people in there? It sounds like it could get a little congested and the silt would get kicked up? > > > Ha ha...so true about the dc torches - give me a Kowalski or Light > > > Cannon any day. Fair enough about guides knowing their way, but what [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > Stan > Hmm Apprehension, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Are there a lot of people in there? It sounds like it could get a > little congested and the silt would get kicked up? Not many when I was there early last year. Only a few people want to go into the cavern, as most are very content to see unlimited whitetips and green turtles. The majority of those going into the cave when I was there were from dive centres on Sipadan, but since those are off-limits now the situation may have changed, and I don't know how many are led in there, but I doubt it's so many that you'll be likely to see another group in there. In any case, the silt in the cavern area settles (relatively) quickly, whereas that in the actual cave section takes days to settle back down apparently. Back to the issue: if I were a cavern first-timer I would want a guide who knew what they were doing. SMART is the only resort with a dedicated tech centre which solves the argument for me. Even if I was staying at another I would request a little consultation from the guys at the tech centre, assuming it's still operational. Stan > Are there a lot of people in there? It sounds like it could get a > little congested and the silt would get kicked up? When i was in there, only me, my wife and guide, i know how to kick in confined spaces but not everyone does, so i would hate to find novices in there flapping ang kicking. The senotes of Mexico are much more confined, the ones i went in anyway, sometimes "squeezing through" openings, the haloclimes are the most disconcerting thing i experienced down there, when you hit those all shape and direction has gone, hopefully you come out of it in time to see which way the guide went. When we did them we hired a guide at some expense, he was in the middle of "mapping" the senotes, he did this by hand with line drawings, a french guy by the name of Harvey..anyone come across him, he lived in port aventures...... Dave Morgan @ Work in the UK |
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