Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
ArticlesDiving DestinationsLearning Scuba DivingMarine LifeMiscellaneous
Discussion GroupsGeneralScuba EquipmentScuba LocationsAustralian ScubaUK Scuba
DirectoryScuba Clubs

Scuba Forum / Scuba Locations / May 2005

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Grand Cayman & Cozumel

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
jemaderi - 29 Apr 2005 01:16 GMT
I'm going on Carnival's 5 day cruise in July.  My small group will consist
of one very experienced Navy diver, his newly certified teenage daughter,
and myself who falls in between.  We will probably opt to go with the
cruiseline's shore excursions just for the ease of the arrangements and no
fear of the ship leaving us behind.  Does anyone know what the dives are
like from the ship - are they shore or boat dives?  A couple people in my
local dive shop said much of Grand Cayman hasn't recovered from the
hurricane.  Is this where we'll be taken?  Any advice or information would
be greatly appreciated.
Jane
Dan Bracuk - 29 Apr 2005 02:31 GMT
"jemaderi" <jimjaney@zoominternet.net> pounded away at his keyboard
resulting in:
: Any advice or information would
:be greatly appreciated.

Don't worry, be happy.

That's my advice.

Dan Bracuk
If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure.
Todd H. - 29 Apr 2005 06:59 GMT
> I'm going on Carnival's 5 day cruise in July.  My small group will consist
> of one very experienced Navy diver, his newly certified teenage daughter,
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> be greatly appreciated.
> Jane

Every cruise dive I've been on has been a boat dive, but as soon as I
say that, you're bound to find the exception.  Check with your cruise
line though if possible.  

In Grand Cayman, if no one has been, stingray city is well worth it,
but then again, you'd miss out on some other great dives too.  Grand
Cayman is one destination I need to get back to for several days!

Best Regards,
Todd H.  
http://www.toddh.net/
Dan Bracuk - 29 Apr 2005 22:14 GMT
t@toddh.net (Todd H.) pounded away at his keyboard resulting in:

:In Grand Cayman, if no one has been, stingray city is well worth it,
:but then again, you'd miss out on some other great dives too.

Some freinds of mine just did that as a snork.  Based on their
comments and photos, plus having dove it, snorkelling might be a
better option, especially if it is less expensive.

Dan Bracuk
If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure.
Daniel Arrepas - 29 Apr 2005 22:40 GMT
> t@toddh.net (Todd H.) pounded away at his keyboard resulting in:
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> comments and photos, plus having dove it, snorkelling might be a
> better option, especially if it is less expensive.

Personally I'd recommend diving it.

I thought Stingray City was an exceptional experience. I did it with my
family from a private charter and we were engulfed in rays. So many that it
might have been better from a big boat with lots of divers feeding them
because we got all the rays trying to feed from our hands, without any
others to attract there attention. It was quite crazy really. I generally
avoid these types of dives but am quite glad we did it. If one hasn't done
it before, I think it is worth a missed dive on the North Wall.
Todd H. - 30 Apr 2005 02:16 GMT
> t@toddh.net (Todd H.) pounded away at his keyboard resulting in:
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> comments and photos, plus having dove it, snorkelling might be a
> better option, especially if it is less expensive.

I wouldn't argue that much.  They're both pretty cool.  One thing
though, it's harder to feed them from underneath though in the
wading/snorkeling trip I'd have to imagine.

I had one of those monsters latch onto my forearm for like 5 seconds
(that felt like an hour) while on teh dive.  My buddy got a picture.
Holy crap did that area bruise and bleed once I got out of the water.
That's a lot of suction.  

There must've been a little squid juice on my forearm from having
dipped into the slitted neoprene cover of the squid bucket, and it
took the big girl a few seconds to figure out I wasn't made of squid.

Best Regards,
--
Todd H.  
http://www.toddh.net/
Steve - 30 Apr 2005 05:59 GMT
>> snorkelling might be a
>>better option, especially if it is less expensive.
>
> I wouldn't argue that much.  They're both pretty cool.  One thing
> though, it's harder to feed them from underneath though in the
> wading/snorkeling trip I'd have to imagine.

The snorkel trip to Sandbar should be cheaper, but for divers I think there's a lot
to be said for the 3-D experience. On a trip arranged by the cruise line it probably
won't be an option, but if there's space snorkelers can usually go along with the
divers, allowing a group to go together and let each get what they want. Since
Stingray City is about 14' deep the snorkelers may be somewhat separated from the
real action unless the divers bring the rays up to them. At least that's how it went
whenmy wife was just a snorkeler. While I think diving is a slightly better option,
there's no problem feeding them while standing in 3 or 4 feet of water. If you don't
want to get below the surface they'll be happy to climb up on you a bit and you can
always reach down a bit.

> I had one of those monsters latch onto my forearm for like 5 seconds
> (that felt like an hour) while on teh dive.  My buddy got a picture.
> Holy crap did that area bruise and bleed once I got out of the water.
> That's a lot of suction.  

I've had them grab my hand a couple of times but never enough to be painful. If they
just taste you a little bit it's actually kind of cool.

> There must've been a little squid juice on my forearm from having
> dipped into the slitted neoprene cover of the squid bucket, and it
> took the big girl a few seconds to figure out I wasn't made of squid.

That's the likely explanation.  It may have left a bruise, but it could have been a
lot worse. It could have happened a few minutes later while visiting the big green
moray.

Signature

Steve

The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable
belief that it was intended as a statement of fact.

If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address.

H Huntzinger - 01 May 2005 14:57 GMT
> I'm going on Carnival's 5 day cruise in July.  My small group will consist
> of one very experienced Navy diver, his newly certified teenage daughter,
> and myself who falls in between.  We will probably opt to go with the
> cruiseline's shore excursions just for the ease of the arrangements and no
> fear of the ship leaving us behind.  Does anyone know what the dives are
> like from the ship - are they shore or boat dives?

The general rule is that it will be a boat-based dive.

> A couple people in mylocal dive shop said much of Grand Cayman
> hasn't recovered from the hurricane.  Is this where we'll be taken?

With the broadest generalization brush, Grand Cayman is probably at
80%-90% of what it was before Hurricane Ivan.

I was through there briefly back in December (2.5 months after Ivan) and
they were already well on their way to recovery in the downtown shopping
area that the cruise ship visitors frequent.  I would expect that by
now, most of the lasting damage is to various hotels that got hit harder
such that it wasn't a quick "patch up the roof" magnitude of repair
(reportedly, some places are going to be closed for the next year or
so).  Since you're coming in on a cruise ship, this is mostly irrelevant
to you.

Logistically, most cruise ships dock offshore of Georgetown, Grand
Cayman, and tender you in.  Cruise ships have now been running at "some"
capacity for 5 months, so any docking issues will have been worked out.  
There's also a cruise ship dock that they had been talking about
building north of Georgetown, but I don't think that construction had
even started prior to Ivan...I'd suspect that the project's on hold.

For scuba diving:  probably 99% those dive operations that were able to
find their diveboats afterwords in the mangroves/harbors have already
repaired and refloated them to get back in business.  Again, since there
have been cruise ships before you, they will have had things pretty well
sorted out.

> Any advice or information would be greatly appreciated.

I'm not personally aware of anyone that does a "2 tank" trip where you
do a wall dive and then stingray city for your 2nd dive, so what I'd
suggest is to try to decide on what you want to do more:  a dive at
Stingray City or a classical Cayman Wall Dive.  

Maybe someone does do both on one trip (eg, a Wall dive and then
Stingray City for your 2nd tank), but geographically, Stingray City is
in the shallow & sandy North Sound, so most of the 'City trips simply
bus you over to a dock that's already inside North Sound, rather than
motoring a dozen or so miles out & back from 7 mile beach over into the
Sound.

-hh
Lou Vallone - 01 May 2005 23:08 GMT
> With the broadest generalization brush, Grand Cayman is probably at
> 80%-90% of what it was before Hurricane Ivan.

I just got back on Wednesday from a week's diving with Ocean Frontiers, and
my estimate is about 40% recovered.

Morritt's and it's dive op Tortuga Divers are completely padlocked, as is
Cayman Dive Lodge. Compass Point is 2/3 inhabitable, and OF is the only
operator on that side of the island.

I did shore dives with Sunset House, they are only running one boat a day
and limiting shore dives for the next two weeks to resident guests only, no
outsiders. They are running their dive shop from one of the residence units.

I did several dives with Dive Tech from shore at Turtle Reef, and they
seemed to be the only ones at full capacity, and that reef was the only one
that seemed to have the full complement of marine life that I am used to
seeing as recently as one year ago. Soft coral is scarce on most of the
shallow dives.

Georgetown is up and running, but not completely. Several restaurants that I
have eaten at in the past (Like Casanova's) are not there at all, or boarded
up, but the cruise line people are back strong - 6 ships in port each time I
drove through Georgetown.

It will be a quite a while, according to the locals I talked with like Tom
Shropshire, before things get totally sorted out.

Short version: you can go and dive, but it ain't what it was pre-Ivan and
won't be for some time.

Signature

But then again, what do I know?

Lou Vallone

LouVallone@aol.com

http://members.aol.com/LouVallone

H Huntzinger - 03 May 2005 13:03 GMT
> > With the broadest generalization brush, Grand Cayman is probably at
> > 80%-90% of what it was before Hurricane Ivan.
>
> I just got back on Wednesday from a week's diving with Ocean Frontiers,
> and my estimate is about 40% recovered.

Lou, we may have been thinking on different scales of recovery:  I was
thinking more along the lines that "80-90%" of the different types of
services were back with reasonable capacity to support tourism, not that
80-90% of all recovery was done.  

> Morritt's and it's dive op Tortuga Divers are completely padlocked, as is
> Cayman Dive Lodge. Compass Point is 2/3 inhabitable, and OF is the only
> operator on that side of the island.

Which is all East End...not particularly the domain of someone coming in
on a cruise ship.

> I did shore dives with Sunset House, they are only running one boat a day
> and limiting shore dives for the next two weeks to resident guests only, no
> outsiders. They are running their dive shop from one of the residence units.

Because of a lack of customers, or because they only have one boat?

For example, the Divi Tiara (on the Brac) wants to shut down the entire
resort for the month of September.  Its not because the resort hasn't
been repaired, but purely due to economic considerations.

> I did several dives with Dive Tech from shore at Turtle Reef, and they
> seemed to be the only ones at full capacity, and that reef was the only one
> that seemed to have the full complement of marine life that I am used to
> seeing as recently as one year ago. Soft coral is scarce on most of the
> shallow dives.

I've caught a secondhand report that they've recently run a garbage
barge out to one of the reefs because there was simply so much roofing
debris to try to clear off the reef.

> Georgetown is up and running, but not completely. Several restaurants that I
> have eaten at in the past (Like Casanova's) are not there at all, or boarded
> up, but the cruise line people are back strong - 6 ships in port each time I
> drove through Georgetown.

This is the genesis of the 80-90% figure I was moving towards for the
OP:  they've pretty much gotten most of their act together for the
cruise ship business.  Already by the time I was down last December,
there were two Atlantis Submarines already seaworthy again...they were
just waiting for customers, etc.

> It will be a quite a while, according to the locals I talked with like Tom
> Shropshire, before things get totally sorted out.
>
> Short version: you can go and dive, but it ain't what it was pre-Ivan and
> won't be for some time.

But of course.  

-hh
HW \ - 03 May 2005 13:51 GMT
>For example, the Divi Tiara (on the Brac) wants to shut down the entire
>resort for the month of September.  Its not because the resort hasn't
>been repaired, but purely due to economic considerations.

Do you have any more information on this?  I thought that except for
the dive dock, everything was back to normal there.

-HW "Skip" Weldon
Columbia, SC
-hh - 05 May 2005 00:01 GMT
> Do you have any more information on this?  I thought that except
> for  the dive dock, everything was back to normal there.

Things are indeed returning to normal.  However, the post-Ivan Cayman
customer base (and thus revenues) has been lagging, so they're watching
their balance sheets carefully and looking for alternatives that would
reduce their fiscal losses.

At first glance, the idea to close down in September is a pretty sound
one fiscally...however, if we look a bit deeper, some of Divi's
Timeshares were sold with contracts that call for them to deliver a
specific service (a TS room) which is to be provided at a specific time
(eg, week)...hmmm!

>From here, Greg should take over the boilerplate discussion on the
potential permutations of what could happen and the Contract Law
implications of each, etc, etc.

-hh
Greg Mossman - 05 May 2005 18:04 GMT
> At first glance, the idea to close down in September is a pretty sound
> one fiscally...however, if we look a bit deeper, some of Divi's
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> potential permutations of what could happen and the Contract Law
> implications of each, etc, etc.

You'd have to post your contract and then I'd have to interpret it within
the meaning of Caymanian law, something I'm not prepared to do.

Are you sure your contract doesn't reserve them any rights that would help
their case?
Lou Vallone - 03 May 2005 16:28 GMT
> Lou, we may have been thinking on different scales of recovery:  I was
> thinking more along the lines that "80-90%" of the different types of
> services were back with reasonable capacity to support tourism, not that
> 80-90% of all recovery was done.

Except for the cruise ship people, most tourist things are running, but at a
diminished capacity it seems to one who has been there many times in the
past, and  exactly  only one year ago. Many first timers might not notice a
reduction at all in the services they require.

>> Morritt's and it's dive op Tortuga Divers are completely padlocked, as is
>> Cayman Dive Lodge. Compass Point is 2/3 inhabitable, and OF is the only
>> operator on that side of the island.
>
> Which is all East End...not particularly the domain of someone coming in
> on a cruise ship.

Agreed. I just included it as a part of the total picture, and because that
is where I was based.

>> I did shore dives with Sunset House, they are only running one boat a day
>> and limiting shore dives for the next two weeks to resident guests only,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Because of a lack of customers, or because they only have one boat?

They seemed to be full the Friday night I was there for the shore diving -
at least the bar was jammed with locals and guests. I only saw one boat
moored during the night dive I made. There is a whole new staff at the dive
shop, didn't recognize anyone from previous trips. They told me there was an
almost complete turnover with the dive staff since the hurricane. An
improvement from my perspective, since I didn't get along well with some of
the previous people. YMMV.

> I've caught a secondhand report that they've recently run a garbage
> barge out to one of the reefs because there was simply so much roofing
> debris to try to clear off the reef.

I heard no such thing while there. Everyone is lined up to get containers
for the debris - one woman who has a house right next to Compass Point has
been waiting since October for the container to come. As far as I know, they
are using local land fill spots for most of it. Earth Day was observed while
I was there. I took part in the U/W cleanup of Turtle Reef and saw lots of
activity on the beaches. I don't think any trashing of the reef is occuring.
I also took part in a Reef Watch survey, which gave me some objective way of
judging the fall off of marine life on the East End versus my logs from last
year.

> This is the genesis of the 80-90% figure I was moving towards for the
> OP:  they've pretty much gotten most of their act together for the
> cruise ship business.  Already by the time I was down last December,
> there were two Atlantis Submarines already seaworthy again...they were
> just waiting for customers, etc.

They are almost totally depending on the cruise ship business to bring
capital back to the island. They get $12.50 US for each person who comes
ashore. 6 ships a day, 5 days a week for an average - 400 people onshore
from each - it is quite a piece of change. In the short run, it is helpful
for them. In the long run, it may hurt. For example, the viz at Sunset House
and some of the Georgetown shore dives comparatively sucks. East and North
viz doesn't seem to be affected beyond daily variables.

I hesitated to say anything previously to the question of diving from a
cruise ship, but were it I, I would get off the boat as soon as possible,
grab a cab to the Turtle Farm, and do two or more shore dives from Dive
Tech. They were the most enjoyable and interesting dives I did all week,
given the viz, biodiversity, ease of entry, exit and navigation, on site
restaurant, friendliness of staff, and economy (air $8 US per tank, nitrox 1
$13 US per tank; BC, reg, etc. rentable at one price for the whole day.)
Doing the dives with Tom Shropshire who is employed in the industry on the
island and is well versed with the subtleties of the dive made them all the
better. But no dive guide is necessary since the site is well marked.

In fact, the tanks were free on Sunday for Earth Day cleanup if you agreed
to bring up any trash that you found and turned it in - your tank rental was
then rebated. They also (unlike Sunset House) will give you more than one
tank at a time - I rented three, used them all and turned them in after the
shop closed at the drop off with no questions asked. I was even present for
a turtle release just before my 4 PM dive.

I also noticed from the dive briefings that there is no longer mention of
things like diving without gloves, 100' limit, required buddy teams, etc.
They still talk about respect for the reef, not to touch or bring anything
up, etc. But there seems to be a relaxation in "policing" divers that had
begun to creep in there over recent years.

If one has their land package together (e.g., not counting on a time share
or some such that is not up and running), I would not hesitate to recommend
returning even now to GC. Just be prepared to see a lot of mess still not
cleaned up and to put up with Georgetown crowed while the ships are in.

Signature

But then again, what do I know?

Lou Vallone

LouVallone@aol.com

http://members.aol.com/LouVallone

Daniel Arrepas - 03 May 2005 16:57 GMT
> They are almost totally depending on the cruise ship business to bring
> capital back to the island. They get $12.50 US for each person who comes
> ashore. 6 ships a day, 5 days a week for an average - 400 people onshore
> from each - it is quite a piece of change.

Thanks for your reports on this stuff Lou. I am curious....compared to the
10% room tax charged in the Caymans the ships don't bring a great amount of
revenue to the island (although it is for certain that cost of sale for that
revenues is limited, hell they didn't even have to build a cruise-ship dock,
so it is easy money for the most part). But I am wondering....are you
indicating that the island's bed base is damaged and currently unusable to
the extent that the major source of government revenue from tourism **right
now** is the ship/passenger taxes?

That would tell me the hospitality infrastructure is severely crippled as a
result of the storms effect. And according to
http://www.gov.ky/servlet/page?_pageid=1777&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&_mode=3
the cruise ship business is barely a drop in the bucket for tourist direct
revenue to the government.

They won't last long on cruise ship business only, or primarily. My
God....will they have to start paying INCOME TAX :^)
Lou Vallone - 04 May 2005 05:21 GMT
> Thanks for your reports on this stuff Lou. I am curious....compared to the
> 10% room tax charged in the Caymans the ships don't bring a great amount
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> currently unusable to the extent that the major source of government
> revenue from tourism **right now** is the ship/passenger taxes?

The bed-base is at least decimated, if not worse. According to my local
sources, the biggest problem for replenishing departed dive staff is finding
a place for the new recruits to live. For example, Treasure Island on 7 mile
beach is shut down and has been denied a new permit for occupancy as a
hotel. They are planning to remodel and make it condos, or apartments or
some such, but that is more than a year away. Seaview (a lower cost
alternative to Sunset House nearby) is completely shut down and  for sale -
but two deals have already fallen through to purchase and rebuild.

AS another example, I had had an offer from a local who had a little house
on East End and was willing to rent to me (I travel usually alone, and try
to avoid single supplement) that was completely wiped away, and there are no
plans in the near future to rebuild.

GC needs an great influx of capital to recover, and it has been told to me
that the cruise business is being depended upon to provide that.

Divers may not be have the muscle they once had as a resource for the
island.

BTW, if one is depending on cell phones from at home to work there, as many
had in the past, there has been a change in the local network and Verizon
not only not longer works on GC, but cannot be adapted to work. As well,
there is not currently the capacity to rent a cell phone on island, as
opposed to a half dozen options to do so a year ago.

I do not know if an income tax is looming, but I would suspect that some
form of tapping into off shore accounts and tax shelters as a form of new
resources for the government may make investments not as inviting as they
were pre-Ivan.

All things considered, I would still not discourage any occasional diver
from making GC a destination for a trip.

Signature

But then again, what do I know?

Lou Vallone

LouVallone@aol.com

http://members.aol.com/LouVallone

> That would tell me the hospitality infrastructure is severely crippled as
> a result of the storms effect. And according to
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> They won't last long on cruise ship business only, or primarily. My
> God....will they have to start paying INCOME TAX :^)
Daniel Arrepas - 04 May 2005 18:20 GMT
> The bed-base is at least decimated, if not worse.

After reading your comments here I found a matrix on a website
http://www.caymanvacations.com/indexmenu.htm?general/ivan.htm&2
that listed major properties on the island and gave a synopsis of the damage
to each, propspective re-open date and whether or not they would reopen, and
there were resort properties that were completely shut down, many with
partial service and a couple that had no immediate plans to reopen. I didn't
know it was this bad, until reading your stuff.

You are quite right, Grand Cayman is suffering and there doesn't seem to be
an easy end to it even when the resorts re-open. This is the first time,
over numerous reports read here about the Caymans, that I have a good feel
for the damage the tiruist industry there is suffering,

>For example, Treasure Island on 7 mile beach is shut down and has been
>denied a new permit for occupancy as a hotel. They are planning to remodel
>and make it condos, or apartments or some such, but that is more than a
>year away. Seaview (a lower cost alternative to Sunset House nearby) is
>completely shut down and  for sale - but two deals have already fallen
>through to purchase and rebuild.

Over the years I have used GC as a beach vacation destination as much as a
diving one, and have enjoyed staying at a small condo complex called Turtle
Beach that has 23 units in a 3 story building. Pretty nice, private
(compared to resorts and hotels) on a nice stretch of 7 mile, right next to
the old Radisson (I forget what that is now). According to this same website
Turtle beach has called it quits. It's sad that they are closed, but moreso
what the future for the land/beach probably is: this is another property
that will surely get bought by a big outfit and we'll see another high-rise
hotel where there used to be something great.
Dillon Pyron - 04 May 2005 03:33 GMT
Thus spake H Huntzinger
<{NOSPAM-rm_to_reply}rec-scuba2005@huntzinger.com> :

<snip>

>Logistically, most cruise ships dock offshore of Georgetown, Grand
>Cayman, and tender you in.  Cruise ships have now been running at "some"
>capacity for 5 months, so any docking issues will have been worked out.  
>There's also a cruise ship dock that they had been talking about
>building north of Georgetown, but I don't think that construction had
>even started prior to Ivan...I'd suspect that the project's on hold.

It's due to start in early 2006.  GC is about to raise the anchoring
fee to help fund it.  Not much, like $.50 a pax, but considering the
number of people, it adds up.

Signature

dillon

Women should be obscene and not absurd.

 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2009 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.