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Exotic diving in the Caribbean

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man - 16 Apr 2005 05:07 GMT
i found this very cool website on diving in northern dominica...not an area
many of us know about....i spent hours looking at all the video clips, and
i must admit i'm pretty impressed with all the creatures and critters...

it also has literally thousands and photos of dominica, land and
underwater...cool

check it out and dream of your next vacation
man - 16 Apr 2005 05:11 GMT
> i found this very cool website on diving in northern dominica...not an
> area many of us know about....i spent hours looking at all the video
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> check it out and dream of your next vacation

whoops, i'm a fool !!!!!

the website was

http://www.liquidguru.com

that should help
Daniel Kessler - 16 Apr 2005 23:17 GMT
is this some kind of scam.  I've dived off Domenica -- yes... it is far better
than the Dominican Republic but Dominica lies in that outer fringe of the
Caribbean bordered by the Atlantic where the diving is weak.

> i found this very cool website on diving in northern dominica...not an area
> many of us know about....i spent hours looking at all the video clips, and
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> check it out and dream of your next vacation
jack black - 18 Apr 2005 19:02 GMT
hi,

i've been diving in dominica, and i found that the health of the reef
there was unsupassed anywhere else in the caribbean....very very clean,
the most abundant and colorful sponges i have ever seen anywhere

i was fortunate to see frogfish, seahorses, sand eels, flying gurnards,
sting rays, eagle rays, turtles (both hawksbills and leatherbacks),
octopus, plus many other critters (loads of puffers, eels and spotted
drum)

granted there are not many big big schooling fish, but the macro stuff
more than made up for it...

i checked out the liquidguru site and was amazed at everything they had
on video and photos..

it made a very refreshing change to dive somewhere where polution and
over-crowding do not exist, on an island filled with waterfalls, virgin
rainforest and friendly people...i agrre with the first post that it
realy was exotic diving in the caribbean

> is this some kind of scam.  I've dived off Domenica -- yes... it is
> far better than the Dominican Republic but Dominica lies in that outer
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>>
>> check it out and dream of your next vacation
Daniel Kessler - 18 Apr 2005 19:28 GMT
> hi,
>
> i've been diving in dominica, and i found that the health of the reef
> there was unsupassed anywhere else in the caribbean.

but your post does not indicate where else have you dived?  So what are you
comparing Dominca's reefs to?    Have you been to Little Cayman, Belize, Bon
Aire, etc.?  When was the last time that you heard of any dive charters
taking clients to explore Dominica's marvelous reefs, as you would have it.
Eco-tourism is alive and well there with clients who might take an
occasional dive to round out the trip.  But Dominica is not a diving
destination by any stretch.

the critters you mention are too small to make a meal and that's probably
why they can still be found or can shimmy through the chicken wire
enclosures that the locals have spread along the reef in so many locations
in order to pillage the reef.  Those locals have got to eat too!

Oh, you forget to note that the only reef they have is on the non-Atlantic
side of the island, which means that 1/2 of the island is not diveable
because of the prevailing strong surf and surges on the rough Atlantic side.
Kaj Maney - 25 Apr 2005 18:27 GMT
My word, what alot of posotive and negative stuff.

i'm the owner of liquidguru, and i've spent four years diving in roatan and
utila, i've also been diving in st lucia, antigua, thailand, st thomas,
exmouth, galapogos, el salvdor, the med etc etc etc...

yes, dominica has it's problems with fish traps....at least it doesn't
dynamite it's reefs or use cyanid....i chose to teach diving here becuase,
for the caribbean, it has the healthiest reef i have seen (i mean reef, as
in hard corals and sponges)...where i dive in the north (and we do dive in
the atlantic, admittedly when weather permits) is pristine...we have had,
for the last eight years, a group of scientist from the University of B.C.
who come diving here looking for sponges for research into cancer, and they
come here becuase the reef is so diverse and healthy...they say that a dive
site called Toucari Caves has the most bio-diversity of any dive site they
have been to in the world (and they dive everywhere) with the exception of
PNG.

Now i understand that everyones idea of what a dive destination should
offer varies. in my experience of diving with divers in dominica, the
overwhelming majority of them found that diving here was a unique
experience, in a good way...most experienced divers saw things they had
never seen before in other destinations and they all enjoyed never seeing
another group of divers in the water....

Dominica is one of the poorest countries anywhere.  No commercialisation,
big companies...what this means is that the population is very very poor,
hence the fish traps....if more divers came, then more money would be spent
and marine management could be enforced

i have no idea why dive charters do not come here.  There are more than
enough divesites up and down the caribbean side to satisfy any dive live-
aboard boat for two weeks......

i do not know where you dived in Dominica, Daniel, and you obviously did
not have a good time...that can happen anywhere in the world at any
destination.  I really beleive that Dominica offers very interesing
diving....i do not own a diveshop here, i am just a very poorly paid
instructor...i love living here because the island is so unique and because
the diving keeps me excited, day in day out, which for me is the most
important thing

oh yes, rodales regularily lists dominica as one of the top dive
destinations in the world, in survey's which are based on divers votes.
Dan Bracuk - 25 Apr 2005 22:26 GMT
"Kaj Maney via ScubaMonster.com" <forum@ScubaMonster.com> pounded away
at his keyboard resulting in:
:yes, dominica has it's problems with fish traps....

What sort of problems?

Dan Bracuk
If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure.
Kaj Maney - 26 Apr 2005 02:21 GMT
fish traps are the chicken wire enclosures that danial talks about.

basically the fish swim in and they can't swim out.  the fishermen have a
set of rules about the size of chicken wire used (which they usally stick
to), the ammount of time they are allowed to leave the trap in the water,
the position of the trap (it shouldn't rest on the reef) and the fact it
should be marked...the last three points are rarely adhered to.  it is
always upsetting to me to run across fish traps on the reef..i wish there
was more management, so that there were designated fishing ares, nursery
areas and diving areas which would keep everyone happy, but due to both
lack of money (therefore no way to enforce rules) and lack of comittment
from the relevant authorities, this is unlikey to happen in the near
future.  this is a problem all over dominica, even in the official marine
reserve in the south...i mean, how can you have a marine reserve and have
fish traps in it??

the fish caught in the fish trap are usaully small, and typically consist
of tang, puffers, snapper, eels (they go through the holes, eat a fish,
then can't get out again), spotted drum, flounder, octopi....because the
fish are so small they boil everything into a soup and called it 'fish
water'...

again, the population is poor, and i cannot blame the locals for wanting to
eat...however, proper marine managment would go a long way to encourage
bigger fish back on to the reef, and therefore bigger catches in allowed
fishing areas....i can but hope....

there is still a large amount of fish all over (or under) dominica..fish
traps have been around for decades, and the fish populations haven't
changed in the last ten years or so....but you will not see many big
grouper in dominica, though you do get quite a few big snapper on the
deeper dive sites
Daniel Kessler - 26 Apr 2005 15:17 GMT
> the fish caught in the fish trap are usaully small, and typically consist
> of tang, puffers, snapper, eels (they go through the holes, eat a fish,
> then can't get out again), spotted drum, flounder, octopi....because the
> fish are so small they boil everything into a soup and called it 'fish
> water'...

I got so angry that I took my diving knife and wrecked a few of these chicken
wire enclosures.  I just couldn't bear to see "my friends" inside there -- the
small reef fish that wouldn't make a decent meal.
Kaj Maney - 26 Apr 2005 21:53 GMT
the only trouble with wrecking the local's fish traps (and i would love to
wreck them all) is that the locals will go upto our boats at night and
wreck our boat engines !!!!  no matter how much i love "my friends", they
are not worth US$6,000 for a new outboard !!! education is the way forward

if we were really concerned for the oceans we would try and limit the big
commerical fisheries. It is not the few local fishermen who are ruining
things, it is the massive commercial operations that are raping the
seas...to read about big fish stocks being down over 90% over the last 15
years, cod facing extinction in the north seas, trawlers destroying every
square foot of the ocean beds....
Daniel Kessler - 26 Apr 2005 15:12 GMT
> i do not know where you dived in Dominica, Daniel, and you obviously did
> not have a good time...

I had my own dive charter escorted by an experienced operator of the Cadaquez,
a dive charter boat which came down from Guadelope, and the skipper was a
Frenchman who name was "Danny" -- he knew these reefs and sites that he kept
fairly garded, that was his reputation at the time --- we stopped at the
"Saints" (small islands in between Dominica and Guadelope) and then dived all
the way down the west coast -- starting at the Northern tip of Dominica.  I
recall one dive where the reef started at a fairly shallow depth that descended
in an arc like a large arena into the depths.  The site would have been
wonderful if it had any fish life of consequence or any large creatures, rays,
turtles or sharks patrolling about -- but there were none.  It is not normally
the custom in the Caribbean to find a reef like that which begins in such a
shallow depth.  Usually, the reef wall begins at about 40 - 60 feet.  I mean,
Little Cayman is famous for a reef wall that begins in about 6 meters and
plunges vertically thousands of feet into the depths and is "undercut in
places" in a dramatic way with huge sponges festooning the wall.  Such sites
are rare in the Caribbean.  Palau has that in spades along with incredible u/w
fauna that puts the Caribbean to shame.

> that can happen anywhere in the world at any
> destination.  I really beleive that Dominica offers very interesing
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> oh yes, rodales regularily lists dominica as one of the top dive
> destinations in the world, in survey's which are based on divers votes.
Kaj Maney - 26 Apr 2005 22:01 GMT
you are right, it would be lovely to have bigger fish on all the reefs...

all i can say is that, from talking to sail boats who have been diving up
and down the eastern caribbean, they all say that their favourtie diving
was in dominica...i have had many divers who have dived all over the owrld
who also say the same thing...now, we are all different people, and enjoy
different things in life, so i think it's safe to say that dominica suits
some and not others...

i spent four years diving in roatan, in the western caribbean, and that
island is surrounded by reef, starting from the surface and going way way
down....the reef was full of overhangs, underhangs, canyons, caves, swim-
thrus....not quite as a healthy reef as here, but very very beautiful...if
you enjoyed little cayman, i would highly recommend roatan, not only is it
very good diving, it is also probably the best value diving in the world
(10 dives for US$150)...chances to see whale sharks and dolphins, no
crowds, especially if you aviod the big resorts (AKR) and stay in the West
End, where you can get fantastic accomodation for around US$40 a night...
Daniel Kessler - 27 Apr 2005 14:32 GMT
I've already dived Roatan.  But the best of the Caribbean diving for me is
Little Cayman and Belize.

But speaking of those comm'l fishing nets that stretch for miles -- it was on
last night's BBC World that the Albatross is nearing extinction thanks to
these nets. When they see all of those fish flopping about on the nets caught
in the sea, they dive into the nets to have a meal and are caught in the nets
and drowned by the thousands.  I recall on my Galapagos trip being just a
couple of feet away from a nesting Albatross -- what a lovely bird.  It really
breaks my heart to think of thousands of them being destroyed.  Also, these
nets are killing of so much of the fish life that the albatrosses have nothing
to eat.

> you are right, it would be lovely to have bigger fish on all the reefs...
>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> --
> Message posted via http://www.scubamonster.com
Dan Bracuk - 27 Apr 2005 23:01 GMT
Daniel Kessler <dkessler@pop.cybernex.net> pounded away at his
keyboard resulting in:
:I've already dived Roatan.  But the best of the Caribbean diving for me is
:Little Cayman and Belize.

I am contemplating a trip to Little Cayman later this year.  Where
have you stayed?  What did you like and dislike about these places?

Dan Bracuk
If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure.
Reef Fish - 28 Apr 2005 01:32 GMT
> Daniel Kessler <dkessler@pop.cybernex.net> pounded away at his
> keyboard resulting in:
> :I've already dived Roatan.  But the best of the Caribbean diving for me is
> :Little Cayman and Belize.

I tend to agree, as far as Aggressor or Peter Hughes liveaboard
Caribbean locations are concerned, and I would insert Turks&Caicos
in the middle and Bay Islands (Roatan) at the far low end.

> I am contemplating a trip to Little Cayman later this year.  Where
> have you stayed?  What did you like and dislike about these places?
>
> Dan Bracuk

Dan, since Patty dives, why consider anything other than the Cayman
Aggressor?  I've been on it (to include Little Cayman) every year
since 1991, except 1995 (Little Cayman Divers II: disaster), through
2004.  That's enough Little Cayman for me, but I would recommend the
Cayman Aggressor to everyone.  Those hen-pecked by non-diving wives
can leave them at home, or let them be your dive-gear cooley.  :-)

la Poisson.
Daniel Arrepas - 28 Apr 2005 02:13 GMT
> Dan, since Patty dives, why consider anything other than the Cayman
> Aggressor?  I've been on it (to include Little Cayman) every year
> since 1991, except 1995 (Little Cayman Divers II: disaster), through
> 2004.  That's enough Little Cayman for me, but I would recommend the
> Cayman Aggressor to everyone.  Those hen-pecked by non-diving wives
> can leave them at home, or let them be your dive-gear cooley.  :-)

I would disagree. Dan, I think at least once you have to enjoy and bask in
the ambiance and quintessential Caribbean experience of Southern Cross Club
or Pirates Point. There are precious few Caribbean dive locations where that
is still evident. I'm almost exclusively a liveaboard man, but I do
recommend LC from a resort. I haven't been to the other 3 resorts on LC so I
cannot comment on them.

SCC and PP are steeped in old Caribbean, from the days when fishermen
visited the island....not divers.
Dan Bracuk - 29 Apr 2005 02:32 GMT
"Daniel Arrepas" <arrepas.daniel@butler-rosebury.com> pounded away at
his keyboard resulting in:
:I would disagree. Dan, I think at least once you have to enjoy and bask in
:the ambiance and quintessential Caribbean experience of Southern Cross Club
:or Pirates Point.

Pirate's Point looks nice.  Do they have a book exchange?

Dan Bracuk
If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure.
Daniel Kessler - 29 Apr 2005 14:18 GMT
someone once described "Pirate's Point" as like a Baptist camp with diving?  Rather
spartan, it was said.

> "Daniel Arrepas" <arrepas.daniel@butler-rosebury.com> pounded away at
> his keyboard resulting in:
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
Daniel Arrepas - 29 Apr 2005 21:29 GMT
> someone once described "Pirate's Point" as like a Baptist camp with
> diving?  Rather
> spartan, it was said.

If you stayed at Gladys Howard's lodge you stayed at Pirates Point is it.
Same, Galdys, same bungalos, same main house, same property, has been
Pirates Point for as long as I can remember.

Don't you remember being there?
Daniel Kessler - 29 Apr 2005 21:42 GMT
You're right...there was another resort on Little Cayman that was referred to
as a Baptist Camp with divers...now which one was it?  There are only a few.

> > someone once described "Pirate's Point" as like a Baptist camp with
> > diving?  Rather
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Don't you remember being there?
Daniel Arrepas - 29 Apr 2005 21:57 GMT
> You're right...there was another resort on Little Cayman that was referred
> to
> as a Baptist Camp with divers...now which one was it?  There are only a
> few.

Sounds like Don's Habitat back in the 70's (*that* was spartan), but as far
as Little Cayman goes I don't know. Pirates Point and Southern Cross Club
are the only ones I've been to. In the old days there was a third, which was
more a fishing lodge than diving resort, but I never stayed and don't recall
the name. Now there is a bigger place called Beach Club or something as well
as a couple condo resorts.

I think the family that owns Brac Reef owns Beach Club.
Steve - 29 Apr 2005 22:41 GMT
> In the old days there was a third, which was
> more a fishing lodge than diving resort,

Sam McCoy's. It was still there as of a few years ago.

> Now there is a bigger place called Beach Club or something as well
> as a couple condo resorts.
>
> I think the family that owns Brac Reef owns Beach Club.

LC Beach Resort. That, Brac Reef and a bunch of other stuff are owned by the Tibbetts
family. LCBR is a bit nicer than some of the other places, but perhaps with slightly
less charm. OTOH, they run 3 boat dives a day, and that's what most people are here for.

Signature

Steve

The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable
belief that it was intended as a statement of fact.

If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address.

Daniel Arrepas - 29 Apr 2005 23:06 GMT
>> In the old days there was a third, which was more a fishing lodge than
>> diving resort,
>
> Sam McCoy's.

There ya go, yeah. It's on the North side of the island. Pretty rustic if I
remember correctly, but I just did a walk-thru....never stayed there.

I wonder if this was the place Dan K was talking about?
Daniel Kessler - 30 Apr 2005 02:15 GMT
Yes, that's it, Sam McCoys.  Sorry, but my last trip to Little Cayman was in
1988.  I guess I'm getting a little "rusty" with my memory, except for Gladys
at Pirate's Point who was larger than life.  Hard to forget her!  My first
experience at diving Little Cayman was an earlier trip to Cayman Brac and the
dive boat ventured over to Little Cayman one day and the crossing was fairly
rough and I thought then, "next time I'll just book Little Cayman."

> >> In the old days there was a third, which was more a fishing lodge than
> >> diving resort,
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> I wonder if this was the place Dan K was talking about?
Daniel Arrepas - 01 May 2005 02:41 GMT
> Yes, that's it, Sam McCoys.  Sorry, but my last trip to Little Cayman was
> in
> 1988.

I know how it gets. A friend over for dinner recently, asked how many times
I had been to Galapagos and when I answered, my oldest daughter had to
correct me  because I had forgotten one trip.

By the way, a few weeks ago I did a week at Wakatobi again, and am still
amazed at the critter ops there. It was gorgeous, maybe some of the best
reef diving I have seen anywhere...though Raja Ampat under the overhangs is
still the ultimate in my book.

Have you done Wakatobi before and if so, what did you think of it?
Daniel Kessler - 01 May 2005 14:07 GMT
well, lucky you!  I have yet to set foot on Wakatobi. When the Wakatobi resort
first appeared on anyone's radar screen, it took three days to get there from
Ujung Pandang (I've been there twice when transiting to Manado).  But then,
they shortened the journey of the many ferries by a small plane, I was told.
But then something went wrong at Wakatobi for a time -- according to my dive
travel agent -- ran out of food with guests stranded and had to eat any
chocolates they had brought along to make it through.  I hear the wall there is
great and would love to see it.  But has the resort management worked out all
the kinks?

> > Yes, that's it, Sam McCoys.  Sorry, but my last trip to Little Cayman was
> > in
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Have you done Wakatobi before and if so, what did you think of it?
Chris Pflaum - 01 May 2005 18:28 GMT
Wall diving at Wakatobi? I thought that it was all reef.

> well, lucky you!  I have yet to set foot on Wakatobi. When the Wakatobi
> resort
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>>
>> Have you done Wakatobi before and if so, what did you think of it?
Daniel Arrepas - 01 May 2005 23:59 GMT
> Wall diving at Wakatobi? I thought that it was all reef.

Reef and criiters is the draw as well as the claim to fame, but there are
some distant drop-offs they will visit on occasion. But the critters are a
very compelling group of subjects and it is hard to pass on the reef diving.
Kind of like the first time one ever shot anemonefish, you just can't stop
going back and shooting them more.
Daniel Kessler - 02 May 2005 03:20 GMT
as soon as the stock market turns around, I'll be thinking of heading off to
Wakatobi -- but I'm not going to hold my breath.

> > Wall diving at Wakatobi? I thought that it was all reef.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Kind of like the first time one ever shot anemonefish, you just can't stop
> going back and shooting them more.
Daniel Arrepas - 02 May 2005 15:05 GMT
> as soon as the stock market turns around, I'll be thinking of heading off
> to
> Wakatobi -- but I'm not going to hold my breath.

As you know Wakatobi itself is about the cost of a week on a liveaboard. The
flights to Bali are what get a bit much because I am too tall to travel that
far in coach, but both Malaysia Air and Singapore Air offer BC for 120,000
miles. That's how I made Bali last time, and the stopover in Kuala Lumpur
was an added gift (I like that city).

I'm of to PNG in a few months for a couple weeks on Star Dancer (the new
itinerary along the south coast of New Britain in the Solomon Sea) and have
copped miles seats on Singapore Air for the same amount. The connection city
(for Air Nugini) is of course, Singapore, which is another city I enjoy when
possible.

Considering that Continental wanted 200,000 miles LA/Guam/Cairns....and
Quanta wants 200,000 miles LA/Sydney/Cairns.....that's a pretty good deal.
And incredibly, Nugini charges are only a very slight increase from
Singapore to Pt Moresby, over what they are Cairns to Pt Moresby. Strange,
and you probably know this well, but anything in or thru Australia can be
really extreme in cost from the US.
Daniel Kessler - 03 May 2005 15:05 GMT
I've always had a good time in K.L. -- on my way to dive somewhere or other.
They have some nice restaurants there and the food is very tasty.  They have the
most beautiful trees lining the road in from the airport -- I wonder what they
are?  A taxi driver told me he thought that they were imported from the
Philippines.

> > as soon as the stock market turns around, I'll be thinking of heading off
> > to
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> and you probably know this well, but anything in or thru Australia can be
> really extreme in cost from the US.
Daniel Arrepas - 03 May 2005 16:02 GMT
> most beautiful trees lining the road in from the airport -- I wonder what
> they
> are?  A taxi driver told me he thought that they were imported from the
> Philippines.

I didn't know that. I need to look into it. KLIA was built in the middle of
one of the oldest virgin rain forests on the planet. I know that they
transplanted some million or so trees/bushes/shrubs that were moved for
construction, but all came from the same forest. It seems strange to me that
they would transplant non-native trees into this forest or surrounding area.

But I can't imagine the taxi driver didn't know what he was talking about.
Daniel Kessler - 04 May 2005 14:28 GMT
I guess I'm one of those people who likes to hug trees when he is not diving!

The matter of transporting trees from one region to another is not that
unusual.  Sir Stafford Raffles founded an exotic tree park in the city of Bogur
(about an hour's drive from Jakarta on the only 4-lane freeway in Indonesia and
once a 'summer capital' for the Dutch who wanted to get away from the heat).

At the time, Sir Stafford Raffles said "bring me trees from every part of the
tropical world."  You have trees from Colombia, South America, Madagascar, the
Philippines, Sri Lanke and other parts of Indonesia and other parts of Southeast
Asia, Australia and New Guinea.

If you ever wind up in Jakarta (as I have and waiting a flight out in a day or
two) don't miss the Garden of trees in Bogur.  I hired a car and driver for the
day's outing.  Every tree is marked with a plaque and since they were planted so
long ago, some of them tower up to 200 feet or more in this fantastic garden.
Beneath the 'forest' canopy, the snake-like trunks of some of them are immense!
The tropical trees you see in this "paradise garden" are truly "jaw-dropping" in
their magnificence and brought in from all over the world's tropical forests.
Bogur, like so many cities in Indonesia is clamoring with traffic but once you
go beyond the gates into this sanctuary - it is startling.  You've entered into
another, almost silent world!

> > most beautiful trees lining the road in from the airport -- I wonder what
> > they
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> But I can't imagine the taxi driver didn't know what he was talking about.
Daniel Arrepas - 01 May 2005 23:54 GMT
> well, lucky you!  I have yet to set foot on Wakatobi. When the Wakatobi
> resort
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> they shortened the journey of the many ferries by a small plane, I was
> told.

Yes, that's right. My first trip was pre-airfield, so we were transported on
the ferries and the final two legs were small boats. Now you go to Bali and
meet a quite nice Fokker and are flown in. Roughly 3 hours from Bali.
Obviously a much better way.

> But then something went wrong at Wakatobi for a time -- according to my
> dive
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> all
> the kinks?

My take is this. They do as well as possible for the remote locale they are.
For a dive resort it is plenty nice enough, and the bungalows are now
air-conditioned since they have upgraded the "power grid" (generators). The
ones on the beach are particularly nice. Food wasn't a problem, and now with
weekly air service I doubt it ever will be again. But having made the trip
on the ferries I can see where perishables could have been a problem a few
years back.

I hadn't heard of the problem you talk about, but if the seas were not
cooperating and the boats and ferries couldn't run, it isn't hard to see
that stranded people and lessening stores could become a major problem. It
is out there a bit.

The dive op is superb and really set up for photogs. The wide angle stuff
was nice because of the beautiful backgrounds possible, but I thought the
reef and critters were the real jewel. I plan on returning for another week
sometime soon.
Daniel Arrepas - 29 Apr 2005 21:44 GMT
> "Daniel Arrepas" <arrepas.daniel@butler-rosebury.com> pounded away at
> his keyboard resulting in:
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Pirate's Point looks nice.  Do they have a book exchange?

When last there, yes. In fact there was a small one in my bungalow. I would
say that Southern Cross Club is a bit nicer, neither being real spiffy, but
I enjoy both properties and would have no problem at either. Be aware the
bugalows have no phone or TV, if that matters, but there is both in the bar.

It's real quiet there. A world away from Grand Cayman resorts and cacaphony.
And the diving is a universe apart from the mess GC has become.

Unless you are expecting polished brass and hardwood doors I think you will
find PP as charming as most people do, and the diving quite good and
spectacular at times.


Reef Fish - 01 May 2005 05:03 GMT
> > Dan, since Patty dives, why consider anything other than the Cayman
> > Aggressor?  I've been on it (to include Little Cayman) every year
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> or Pirates Point. There are precious few Caribbean dive locations where that
> is still evident.

In other posts, you were comparing Little Cayman with the cocophony of
NOISE in Grand Cayman -- a rather pointless point to make when you're
trying to tell me that you disagree with my recommendation of the
Cayman Aggressor to everyone who likes to dive LITTLE Cayman.

My detailed logs of the 13 trips to Little Cayman recorded on average
about 16 dives in LCM within the week EXcluding dives in Grand Cayman
and Cayman Brac.  The dive sites included just about every one of the
sites on Bloody Bay Wall and Jackson Wall.

So what do you disagree?  The CA (in my 13 trips after 1990) dived the
BEST North Wall sites in GCM, the BEST sites in LCM, and Cayman Brac
since 1996.

Tell us what dive SITES in LCM you have dived while land based that
you think are better than the once dived by the Cayman Aggressor in
Little Cayman.

> I'm almost exclusively a liveaboard man,

In Indonesia?  It's highly doubtful you dived many liveaboards in the
Caribbean judging from what you said in this and other posts.

> but I do recommend LC from a resort.

You have not substantiated or given reason (rather than your
inappropriate comparison with Grand Cayman diving).  You sound like
someone too old and decrepid to dive more than 2 dives a day, which
would make the Cayman Aggressor not as good a choice as your
ambience resort in which you could booze all day and after a few
boozes, everything looks "quintessential".

Just curious, WHICH of the sites in Bloody Bay Wall have you EVER
dived?  I mean NAME the cites, and I'll see what credibility you
have about DIVING there.

-- Bob.
Dan Bracuk - 28 Apr 2005 03:01 GMT
"Reef Fish" <Large_Nassau_Grouper@Yahoo.com> pounded away at his
keyboard resulting in:

:Dan, since Patty dives, why consider anything other than the Cayman
:Aggressor?

Not ruling that out at all.  It's a matter of starting with many
options and narrowing it down to one.

Furthermore, to be absolutely illogical, irrational, and
irresponsible, all of which are quite delightful, I've been on the
Agressor but have never been to Little Cayman.

Not everything has to make sense.

Dan Bracuk
If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure.
Reef Fish - 28 Apr 2005 03:43 GMT
> "Reef Fish" <Large_Nassau_Grouper@Yahoo.com> pounded away at his
> keyboard resulting in:
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> irresponsible, all of which are quite delightful, I've been on the
> Agressor but have never been to Little Cayman.

That means you were on it during those Fall/Winter months when
the CA typically skip the crossing because of rough seas.

> Not everything has to make sense.

The ONLY year (out of 15) that I was on the Agressor that did NOT
go to Little Cayman was my first, in 1990.  I learned my lesson
then and there, from Wayne Hasson himself who was one of the three
captains that week in December.  :-)

-- Bob.
Dan Bracuk - 29 Apr 2005 02:29 GMT
"Reef Fish" <Large_Nassau_Grouper@Yahoo.com> pounded away at his
keyboard resulting in:
:That means you were on it during those Fall/Winter months when
:the CA typically skip the crossing because of rough seas.

late March, 1990.

Dan Bracuk
If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure.
Daniel Kessler - 28 Apr 2005 21:13 GMT
I stayed with Gladys Howard's lodge.  Is it still there?   She tries or did try very
hard to serve some nice meals around various themes.  She had individual bungalos and a
main house where meals were served.  At that time she had a stupid rule and immediately
told guests on arrival about certain depth limitations she would not allow her dive
master escorting her diving guests.  At first I was annoyed, but then her dive masters
paid no attention to her rule and neither did I.

You know, with that Little Cayman wall starting in such shallow water, it would be easy
to lose track of depths and maybe she  had a point and some divers could get into
trouble -- I suppose..  But I was a very experienced diver at the time and knew what
not to do and did not get easily narked and watched my guage.

So at the end of the day, I did my usual diving profile and got in my u/w photography.

> Daniel Kessler <dkessler@pop.cybernex.net> pounded away at his
> keyboard resulting in:
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
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