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Scuba Forum / Scuba Locations / March 2005PNG: dive Madang
Has anyone been to Madang recently? Am off there in April and am interested in finding out as much as possible and where the best diving is. Thanks Mike "the quarry" is a fabulous dive...not far from Madang, heading up the New Guinea coast towards Hansa Bay. No, it is not an actual "quarry" but a spot further up the coast (about 5/10 miles)-- I understand that the name comes from a "quarry" that is inland, but nearby off the coast road. There's a wreck there at this dive site (a small boat at 90 feet). There's quite a bit of current there since the "quarry" is located on a point along the coast that jutts out into the ocean. There were some astonding things there, a kind of coral that looked like a "gold carpet." In 25 years of diving in the Pacific -- I've never encountered anything like that since. It was a true "carpet of glory." Also, at the edge of the "carpet of glory" there was a huge white fan that was to "die for." It was an u/w photographer's dream come-true. There used to be a dive operation (Jais Aben) in Madang but haven't heard much of it for some time. Are they still in business? I once stayed with them and dived the area on another trip. That they had a dive-master there in residence was an on-and-off thing. You really had to contact them in advance and tell them you were coming. Madang is one of the few places along the coast of this big island where large muddy rivers are not befouling the vis. Of course, there's the Sepik, a Mississippi-sized muddy river that empties into the ocean that stains the water along the coast for miles. The mouth of the Sepik is some distance from Madang -- but still! Much nearer to Madang, is another sizeable muddy river whose name begins with the letter "R" (can't think of what it is called right now) that empties in to the ocean, but the places along the coast that are suitable with excellent u/w vis are few and far between. I was on a dive charter with Chris Newbert where we dived along the coast of Papua New Guinea around Madang, including that volcanic island off New Guinea (whose name escapes me--was it Kau-Kau or something like that?) and we motered all the way out to the Hermit Islands. There were some beautiful spots up in the lonely Hermits (that's getting quite a ways out from the coast of New Guinea). This Chris Newbert led dive tour was long before he had his own dive touring company and he took out groups or was a "dive tour leader" for Sea & See. For some reason (perhaps vanity), Chris Newbert wants to forget his salad days as a dive tour leader for hire and has "select memory" when the subject is brought up. > Has anyone been to Madang recently? Am off there in April and am interested > in finding out as much as possible and where the best diving is. > > Thanks > > Mike > This Chris Newbert led dive tour was > long before he had his own dive touring company and he took out groups or [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > has > "select memory" when the subject is brought up. You know Daniel, I seem to remember you whining about Chris on the very ng (or maybe uw-photo-L) maybe 10-12 years ago or so. Something about being him the first in the water and not taking care to teach you how to shoot underwater (my memory is slim on these points but I do believe it was you). I spoke to him about it at that time and after looking at his records he replied to me a few weeks later than no Daniel Kessler had ever been on a tour with him. I have never joined one of his tours, so I don't know if the're good or bad, but geez, after so long maybe you can get over it if you had a bad experience with him. He's not a bad guy and he has loyal and high paying clientele (no doubt you'll call them suck-ups) so somewhere along the line he got it right, and as far as him forgetting where he has worked: Chris introduced Carl to me many years ago and described him as his former employer. Doesn't seem to me he had any problem at all with being a See & Sea ex-tour leader. You sound jealous, ya know? I guess you would want to be one of Chris's "groupies." And why, prey tell, are you so defensive about Chris. Do you have a crush on him, did he tickle your fancy? If he has a "loyal, high paying clientelle" are we to be intimindated by that? Just because George Bush won the last election -- do I have to like him? Because he had a lot of rich friends who plunked down huge sums of money to fund his campaign? Having a rich clientelle apparentlly impresses you -- which says more about the kind of person you are than anything else you have said! I get it! According to your mentality, people only have worth when they're filthy rich! That may define you -- but it does not define me! I went on that Sea & Sea trip, as I had done on many, many others, to see a different part of the u/w world. I didn't go along as a Chris "groupie" or to secretly espy his techniques. But you admit you never went on one of his tours ...so what do you know and how do you know it? Did you brush against him at a convention for a few minutes to tell him how wonderful he was? I have been on a tour with him. Why should Chris Newbert be a "monstre sacre" on this board, any more than any other person who takes divers out on tours? Please explain? I don't think it is "wining" to remember I was on a tour with him if Chris, for some strange reason, he is in denial that he ever took out tours for Carl. I only mentioned it to give Chris a little nudge, in case he forgot. Let him stay in denial -- I only regard the entire matter as one of mild amusement, at this point. I've gone on to greater u/w glory on many subsequent trips. Chris is dead wrong in denying he was on that tour or had "select memory" for some reason. How do you know Chris is a "nice guy" or a "bad guy" or whatever if you have never been on one of his tours and had some extended exposure to him? Please explain! I never, on that tour, asked him to define his technique of u/w photography to me. I was doing my own thing, as was Chris doing his own thing, which he does rather well, as we all know. But it seems to me that in denying he ever took out tours as a "dive guide for hire" he's become altogather "too grand for words." Maybe all of his accomplishments have gone to his head, as if often the case. > > This Chris Newbert led dive tour was > > long before he had his own dive touring company and he took out groups or [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > You sound jealous, ya know? >I guess you would want to be one of Chris's "groupies." And why, prey >tell, [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > often the > case. Daniel, You are acting like a little girl, and I'm being a bit unfair to little girls when I say that so I'll try to answer your questions without responding to the rudeness your hurt feelings has generated. I met Chris at A-Basin. We ski together. I have never been diving with him. I've never been to a "convention"????? with him. His particular photographic perspective isn't an immense interest to me much because I like the sea and everything in it rendered as it is, rather than minor distillations of form, but I believe Chris is the best at expressing his own specific imperative. His tours are exorbitant in price, but he has a strong clientele who return time and time again so it seems they find some value and enjoyment in his service. I know a number of them and have never heard anything like the whining you have continued with for over a decade. It seems to me the only groupie he has given birth to is you. I didn't say Chris denied "being on that tour", I said he checked his records and they indicate no one with your name ever joined him on a trip. As far as Carl goes it wouldn't surprise me that most of his past associates deny being part of his business, particularly given the manner in which he closed shop and the number of people and boats that suffered due to his business practices. But as I said before, when I was introduced to Carl, Chris said he used to work for him. So I don't see any indication he was hiding anything or trying to disassociate himself with Sea & See or Carl. Quite frankly, if I had ever been part of Sea & See, I myself wouldn't be so willing to let people know about it today. Carl hurt a lot of people without cause. But I have never seen Chris deny his employment with that operation. Unfortunately it was indeed you who in 1994 claimed Chris didn't spend anytime working with you on technique and complained that instead of helping photographers get ready, Chris was always the first one into the water. That seemed like such a sin to you, that he was in the water before others. My feeling has always been that if I want to be first in the water, I make it so rather than caterwauling about the one who beat me to the punch. I imagine his accomplishments may have indeed gone to his head. He'd have to be an idiot not to recognize the exposure he has brought to the craft, the esteem he has enabled other underwater photographers enjoy or aspire to, or understand how he elevated the quality of photo printing in bookwork with Rainbowed Sea. It seems strange to me that you would deny him the satisfaction he has earned in that regard. As an underwater photographer yourself, you have to understand that book elevated underwater photography to a new professional plateau it had never been granted before. As far as your "greater u/w glory", I think that just about says all we need to know about your infatuation with Chris Newbert. Get over him. He's a good guy, and you seem like such a sad case running around for 12 years now whining about how he never gave you enough of his time. You'e got no case here, because he doesn't deny ever having contracted with Sea & Sea to lead photo tours. His e-mail is all over the web. Seems to me after all these years you might want to complain directly to him rather than cat-calling from the shadows of Usenet. It might help your self-respect too. I used to ski "A" basin myself when I lived in Colorado-- skiied into May, if I recall correctly. One year I clocked in over 80 days of skiing. I even thought that was wonderful until I discovered heli-skiing with Canadian Mountain Holidays and skiied the Bugaboos, Bobbie Burns and other fantastic ski locations they have up in British Columbia. Pretty pricey stuff too -- $7,000 and up for a week of glory in early March. After that, Colorado skiing became a dim memory. I'm afraid you're the one who is making a mountain out of a mole hill. This is the 2nd time I've even mentioned this matter in years -- it is hardly a fixation, as you seem to imply. I've made countless posts on this board and never mentioned Chris -- its just that his name pops into my head anytime I recall that trip to the Hermits and Madang (which another poster brought up). Again, unlike some others (of his groupies) on the boat charter, I did NOT come along to learn his skills. Get real! I never asked him to show me ANYTHING! Got that? And if you look up my old post of many years ago -- I never claimed such. When his groupies were busy hovering around Chris and his gear after dinner-- I was down below deck in my stateroom "zzzzzzzzzzz" I couldn't be bothered, particulary manipulating all of the u/w paraphernalia he brings along -- and that's fine for him, if it works for him! That you suggest that I could have just geared up and jumped into the water shows your ignorance on how things are done on a dive charter boat under the control of the skipper and the dive guide/dive master. They might be moving the boat at the last instance -- you have to wait for a signal before plunging into the water, unless you want to become chopped liver with the boat's propeller!. Obviously, you haven't a clue as to how things are done on dive charters -- I've been on many of them in a number of exotic locations. In such instances, far out to sea or on a remote reef-- you're in a controlled environment for safety's sake. Yes, Chris continued throughout the trip to be the one to give the signal that he would go in first -- he had worked that out with the skipper. What could I do -- finally had enough near the end of the trip and complained!!! I did this because, as we all know, the first person in the water is the one most likely to startle interesting sea creatures who will immediatley take off! Chris certainly knew that -- and was determined that he alone would be that person. He would be Mister "noblesss oblige"...and I was stuck being a peon in his realm of imposed rules put in place with the skipper (and Chris). After a while, one doesn't like being treated like Jean Val Jean and it is time to attack the Bastille if you are a paying customer. Things like that do go on ...when you're on a charter and have a famous u/w photographer on board but since it was a Sea & Sea trip, I thought that Chris would cut some slack to a paying customer who was NOT one of his groupies. He did not! As far as he was concerned -- it was "his own" charter and he had brought along his friends and that was it! In demanding my money's worth -- how am I behaving like "a little girl?" Your analogy doesn't make sense. How do you behave when people start pushing you around? Do you take it on the chin? Also, I think you're being a little unfair to Carl Roessler -- he did some good things and for many years ....ran a 1st rate company only to be brought to penury by that monster of a wife (his second one) Jessica. They're now divorced. She ran up debts, bought houses and made other lavish expenditures without consulting him. The poor guy was pussywhipped. She was a co-signee of checks in a joint account. The only thing I'm miffed with Carl about was his failure to introduce me to Leni Riefensthal ---"Hitler's honey" --according to that old windbag columnist of that day --Walter Winchell --his real name was Walter Weinstein or something like that but changed it. I'm speaking of the time that Carl and I were in the Maldives back in 1982. Carl slipped away one evening to meet Leni who was diving off a nearby resort island (atoll). I mean, the legendary Leni Riefensthal...Yikes! The stories she could have told me about her movie career! She made two of the most famous movies of all time, "The triumph of the Will" and "Olympiad," which was after many films that she starred in. I also want to thank Carl for introducing me to Stan Waterman -- a true gentleman. > >I guess you would want to be one of Chris's "groupies." And why, prey > >tell, [quoted text clipped - 119 lines] > want to complain directly to him rather than cat-calling from the shadows of > Usenet. It might help your self-respect too. >I used to ski "A" basin myself when I lived in Colorado-- skiied into May, >if I > recall correctly. June every year, and July most years...though you wouldn't want to ski you're favorite boards :^) > One year I clocked in over 80 days of skiing. I even thought > that was wonderful until I discovered heli-skiing with Canadian Mountain [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > a week of glory in early March. After that, Colorado skiing became a dim > memory. I like skiing a lot of places. I went to college at Udub so I was skiing BC 30 years ago whenever the opportunity arose. But Colorado is my backyard now so if I want to ski 80 days a year, very few of them will be in Canada. We make a single heli-ski trip per year up there, but it's become more popular over the years and the solitary experience it used to provide has been diminished somewhat. It used to be like drawing on a virgin canvas, but these days you have to have the luck of the weather to see it that way. Still, it's a nice experience, but skiing powder eliminates the more tactical aspects of skiing and in many ways makes one a less accomplished skier. I enjoy Utah and Colorado immensely, but feel the best skiing is found in the Alps because of the aggressive terrain and incredible fall. They don't always get our quality of snow, and neither does BC, but those mountains will tax your abilities in ways that North America will not. I think this is the main reason European skiers, the real skiers, are technically so superior to NA skiers. They just have to be. > Again, unlike some others (of his groupies) on the boat charter, I did NOT > come > along to learn his skills. Get real! I never asked him to show me > ANYTHING! I can only go by what you yourself posted over the years. > When his groupies were busy hovering around Chris and his gear after > dinner-- I was down below deck in my stateroom "zzzzzzzzzzz" I couldn't be > bothered, particulary manipulating all of the u/w paraphernalia he brings > along > -- and that's fine for him, if it works for him! If it's fine for him, why take the time to mention it. You give yourself away at every single utterance on this subject. And why ridicule people who like the guy? He's not the first person proficient at a craft that others like to be around. Isn't this why college grads and students try to get internships with the best at whatever area of study they have chosen? Isn't it true that if you spend time around people particularly successful or proficient at a given task, you yourself may learn a thing or two? Of the people on this trip you may already have been proficient at uw-photo. But why ridicule those who may not have been and were looking for any sort of laser-like learning improvement. I enjoy racing cars and you'd better believe I jump at the chance to get a pit or garage pass to a major successful team, and try to pickup on any little advantage I otherwise would never learn. Am I a "groupie" because of that? Your dislike of Chris is so immense that you seemingly attack anyone who likes him or patronizes his business. > That you suggest that I could have just geared up and jumped into the > water > shows your ignorance on how things are done on a dive charter boat under > the > control of the skipper and the dive guide/dive master. Bullshit. I've traveled as much or more than you, for as many or more years, and to locales equally or more diverse. Please don't employ the stupid Usenet obfuscation tricks. It's below both of our considerable experience with the subject at hand. > Yes, Chris continued throughout the trip to be the one to give the signal > that [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > likely to > startle interesting sea creatures who will immediatley take off! I never have bought into that, and have never thought that surprising a startled fleeing subject would very often result in a good snapshot, let alone a managed image. I tend to be the last into the water. I tend to let everyone else move away, and then I settle and move along at my pace, rather than a pace that keeps me ahead of "the pack". More often than not the subjects come back, or reappear. I have never thought first in was as advantageous as was letting the other 13 or 14 divers go first, then seeing where most head, and then, meandering off to settle down and wait by myself. The difference between the first in and the second, third and fourth in, is but a matter of seconds. Maybe mine is not the best strategy, but I am more comfortable with that than the very very occasional advantage "first in" generates. I have always found that "for me", aggression underwater is isn't the best tactic for acquiring the preferable photo op. I suspect he was looking to cop a couple shots before the following herd stirred up the particulate and made the water bubble like champagne, than he was trying to be the one seeing the big or interesting animal first. > Chris > certainly knew that -- and was determined that he alone would be that > person. > He would be Mister "noblesss oblige"...and I was stuck being a peon in his > realm > of imposed rules put in place with the skipper (and Chris). I personally wouldn't have had a problem with it, but if it mattered to you, you should have dealt with it earlier in the trip, rather than seeming so bitter more so many years later. Really, your thing with Chris seems to be much more about his success, rather than this week shared on a boat. > In demanding my money's worth -- how am I behaving like "a little girl?" This is years and years later. How is it that in 2005 you are demanding your money's worth from a trip that took place before most of the people on this ng had every heard of a liveaboard dive boat? As soon as it bothered you, you should have spoken to him in private, just like you do with any other issue aboard a liveaboard. Instead, all these years later, you're still pouting. (sorry, you asked) > How do you behave when people start pushing you > around? Do you take it on the chin? Well, first of all I don't get pushed around. It's not that people don't try, it's just that I am pretty square on what I will allow and what I will not. So in the case of the tour leader wanting to be first in the water...I don't care. Let 'em go, it doesn't matter to me and I'm not getting pushed around just because that person may believe they are forcing an advantage for themselves. What they think isn't my business. Because the human chemistry aboard a dive boat is sometimes a sensitive thing, I generally react only when something is really an imposition on my ability to enjoy the trip. But when that is evident to me I make no delay in speaking to whoever it is at issue, and I do it in private. Liveaboards aren't anything if they aren't compromises, which is why many "tour providers", at least those with a strong enough clientele, screen guests and delete from future trips or mailings those who were less than compatible. When you have been shooting Great Whites from a cage, how many times did you let the other people in the cage with you ruin you ops by getting their strobe arms in your perspective. I suspect, not many times. I've got to think you were for some reason intimidated by Chris and for that reason did not cure this irritancy earlier in the trip. That was probably all that was needed to either get Chris to stop being first in, or for you to stop caring that he was. > Also, I think you're being a little unfair to Carl Roessler I am not being unfair to Carl in any degree. > -- he did some good things and for many years Yes he did, but that is no defense for the loses sustained by individual divers as well as liveaboard dive boat owners and operators because of his choice of actions. (and besides.......he *placed* that Rhinopias in the red gorgonia :^) >....ran a 1st rate company No he didn't. But he is, in my mind, singularly responsible for the wealth of liveaboard options we enjoy today, and he was singularly responsible for making 3rd world countries recognize the advantages of opening their doors, societies and laws to the diving community. Those of us who enjoy liveaboard diving in remote locales owe him a high debt of gratitude for his foresight and perseverance. He was indeed a break-trail-pioneer > only to be brought to > penury by that monster of a wife (his second one) Jessica. They're no [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > co-signee of > checks in a joint account. I don't know that to be true, but I also don't care. It's a partisan excuse for his actions, not a reason they should be accepted or a reason he should be exonerated. I like Baby's Little Pumpkin too, but it's not an excuse for whatever mistakes I have made, or those I have allowed in my name, in life. I don't want to tear him up on a public forum so I won't go further than this: People lost money because of choices he made. He could have stopped taking money from people when it became evident he wasn't going to be able to provide to them the trips they thought they were buying. Your notion that he is innocent to some degree because she wasn't judicious in spending, isn't very considered. So even if Chris, or anyone else for that matter, were trying to disassociate themselves from Sea & See, it is likely he was being nothing more than a prudent businessperson. Hell, even Carl doesn't want anything to do with that company!!!! Compared to the ruination the manner of Sea & See's closure created (which you seem to be defending), jumping into the water before you do seems a minor offense, and not one to publicly denigrate a person over. Ladies (Daniel and Daniel). There is no need to get so personal. Bizarre how a simple enquiry into diving in Madang can turn into a raft of personal slights. Regardless of whether they are all done in jest or not its just not the forum. Let's get back to dive travel and, of course, Madang. Michael Short Remember Its not the bottom time that counts, its the time at the bottom. Never dive with a guzzler. > >I used to ski "A" basin myself when I lived in Colorado-- skiied into May, > >if I [quoted text clipped - 196 lines] > you seem to be defending), jumping into the water before you do seems a > minor offense, and not one to publicly denigrate a person over. > Ladies Go f.ck yourself Michael..... ......how's that for personal? You need to get out more. > > Ladies > > Go f.ck yourself Michael..... > > ......how's that for personal? Fantastic reply. great to hear that Madang is worth the trip. Am staying at the Jais Aben facility. I understand that its really improved recently - apparently went through a rough trot with owners. New owners and new lease on life. Should look at http://www.michaelmcfadyenscuba.info/articles/overseas.htm This guy has been around. Excellent record if you're going to dive the east coast of Oz. > "the quarry" is a fabulous dive...not far from Madang, heading up the New Guinea > coast towards Hansa Bay. No, it is not an actual "quarry" but a spot further up [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > > > Mike from the web site it is referenced as 1996. That's almost ten years now. Are you sure Jais Aben is still open and receiving divers? > Fantastic reply. great to hear that Madang is worth the trip. > [quoted text clipped - 76 lines] > > > > > > Mike Jais Aben is still open. Since that article was written it is under new management. My sources say it is a wonderful place to stay. Great water, lovely surroundings, excellent diving etc. Still, will confirm upon return. > from the web site it is referenced as 1996. That's almost ten years now. Are > you sure Jais Aben is still open and receiving divers? [quoted text clipped - 79 lines] > > > > > > > > Mike |
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