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Scuba Forum / Scuba Locations / February 2005Hawaii recommendations for 2 week stay? Maui and [??]
Greetings, I'm looking for some recommendations to narrow down plans on a 2-stop itinerary, 2 hotels, and dive operators for a trip we're pondering Hawaii in March for a 2 week stay. At this point, I'm not even sure the best place to fly into! From what I've read and investigated, about all I have it narrowed down to is "you'll really like Maui" "skip Honoloulou-you've got enough of that big city crap in Chicago," and I think we'd enjoy staying week 1 and week 2 in different places, and above all else this trip should be relaxing. We're both early 30-somethings, and pretty active. We've been to the Carribbean and Thailand in the past. Having the beach or water close at hand for snorkeling is a priority, and we will be looking to dive oh... say, 4 or 5 days over the course of our 2 weeks. I've got about 25 dives under my belt over the past 7 years and my SO was certified last year, so we won't be looking for adrenaline filled diving or anything. :-) Our last vacation was way overpacked on a go go go itinerary, so the m.o. for this trip is "relaxing." For me that involves planting my hiney near a large body of water in the sun, snorkeling, and some diving. If there's beach volleyball to be had that's a pleasant bonus. I wanna see the volcanoes, maybe some kayaking, maybe rent a car and drive around the island. And I think I'd like to pick up camp and move only once during the stay (so, I guess i'm looking for 2 hotels, one in Maui somewhere, and one on another island..unless inter-island transport is too much of a pain). We don't have money to burn by any stretch, but I'm also willing to pay to be in a place that's clean and not run down. I've got a mental idea of wanting to stay under $225 a night but I've also not looked enough to whether that's terribly realistic. I'd welcome any recommendations to narrow it down some! Thanks for any experiences you can share! Best Regards, -- Todd H. http://www.toddh.net/ To reply by email replace _invalid_ with tdh If you want to see active volcano it'll have to be the big island. Maui has a dormant volcano. The other island I can recommend is definitely Kauai. > Greetings, > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > http://www.toddh.net/ > To reply by email replace _invalid_ with tdh > about all I have it narrowed down to is "you'll really like Maui" > "skip Honoloulou-you've got enough of that big city crap in Chicago," All I can say is Maui N? Ka `Oi -- Maui is the best.. Yes, you probably should skip Honolulu, although there's quite a bit on that island. > We're both early 30-somethings, and pretty active. We've been to the > Carribbean and Thailand in the past. Having the beach or water close > at hand for snorkeling is a priority, and we will be looking to dive > oh... say, 4 or 5 days over the course of our 2 weeks. I've got about > 25 dives under my belt over the past 7 years and my SO was certified > last year, so we won't be looking for adrenaline filled diving or You can get great diving in Maui or Hawai'i (Big Island). Maybe anywhere. >I wanna see the volcanoes, maybe some kayaking, maybe rent a > car and drive around the island. And I think I'd like to pick up camp > and move only once during the stay (so, I guess i'm looking for 2 > hotels, one in Maui somewhere, and one on another island..unless > inter-island transport is too much of a pain). It's a pain, but not excessively so. If you've never been to the state before, 2 islands are probably worth the trouble. Personally, I'd pick Maui and the Big Island. Totally different, but both still pretty Hawaiian (esp. Big Island). > We don't have money to burn by any stretch, but I'm also willing to > pay to be in a place that's clean and not run down. I've got a mental > idea of wanting to stay under $225 a night but I've also not looked > enough to whether that's terribly realistic. Really easy to find a nice place for that either island. You gotta look around a little, but it's do-able. It's really easy to pay too much if you're not careful. Personally, I think the Big Island has the best diving and where I'm partial to Dive Makai. Since you have 2 weeks, I wouldn't skip Honolulu but give it no more that 2 days. Snorkel at Hanauma Bay. Maui has the best beaches but the diving is so so. Kauai has great scenery but never did get to dive there. > Greetings, > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > http://www.toddh.net/ > To reply by email replace _invalid_ with tdh >"skip Honoloulou-you've got enough of that big city crap in Chicago," >and I think we'd enjoy staying week 1 and week 2 in different places, >and above all else this trip should be relaxing. Hawaii's best restraunts and night clubs are in Honolulu. Honolulu also has a higher residents-to-tourists ratio (at least outside of Waikiki). If those don't interest you, then you won't miss much by skipping Honolulu. The other islands have more natural beauty and outdoor activities. >Greetings, > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >last year, so we won't be looking for adrenaline filled diving or >anything. :-) When we do two weeks, it's usually a week on Maui, a week on The Big Island, in Kona. >Our last vacation was way overpacked on a go go go itinerary, so the >m.o. for this trip is "relaxing." For me that involves planting my [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >hotels, one in Maui somewhere, and one on another island..unless >inter-island transport is too much of a pain). Both Aloha and Hawaiian run pretty regular schedules. It's just a matter of lining up for the best seats. >We don't have money to burn by any stretch, but I'm also willing to >pay to be in a place that's clean and not run down. I've got a mental >idea of wanting to stay under $225 a night but I've also not looked >enough to whether that's terribly realistic. You can find a condo for around $175. I really recommend trying that route. >I'd welcome any recommendations to narrow it down some! Thanks for >any experiences you can share! > >Best Regards,  Signaturedillon "When the French are against it, you know we can't be far wrong." - Adm. Bobbie Ray Inman [...] >We're both early 30-somethings, and pretty active. We've been to the >Carribbean and Thailand in the past. Having the beach or water close >at hand for snorkeling is a priority... Snorkeling isn't as great in Hawaii as it is elsewhere in the world, and I also include our experiences in the Caribbean (the best, IMO) and Thailand in that comparison. We lived in Hawaii for a year, and spent about half that time exploring all the islands. Frankly, here are just more interesting things to see and do there than spending too much time looking for good snorkeling. There is much to see. Having said that, diving along the Kona Coast on the big Island offers some submerged lava cave exploration possibilities. On Oahu, there is so-so snorkeling at Haunauma Bay. Much of the Hawaii shores are open ocean, though, and too rough and disturbed for good snorkeling. Coral reefs that protect inland bays are the best, but Hawaii's just not the place for that configuration. (But the surfing is great!) >Our last vacation was way overpacked on a go go go itinerary, so the >m.o. for this trip is "relaxing." For me that involves planting my [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >hotels, one in Maui somewhere, and one on another island..unless >inter-island transport is too much of a pain). >I'd welcome any recommendations to narrow it down some! Thanks for >any experiences you can share! Oahu is where you change planes. Maui is interesting but limited, considering the alternatives, unless you are into hiking the trails at Haleakala National Park. The Big Island offers the Hawaii Volcanoes National Park -- a worthy destination. Molokai is very laid back, but also limited other than the interesting Kaulapapa Leper Colony trip. But considering your above comments, I'd give serious consideration to Kauai. You could stay in the Poipu area (good weather, good services, great restaurants, good beach) and tour the island at your leisure. If you need further info on any of these places, just ask. Caveat Never been to hawaii - is all travel between the islands by air? >Never been to hawaii - is all travel between the islands by air? If you are referring to public transportation between Hawaii's islands, almost all of it is by either Aloha or Hawaiian Airlines. The reason is that most people who visit the islands are on vacation and have limited time. There are probably some limited cruise packages available to certain islands, but I would guess that most of those are stops on a longer cruise -- but I don't know much about those. There is, of course, a huge private boat fleet on the islands. If you visit Ala Moana Yacht Harbor on Oahu, and Lahaina on Maui, you'll see hundreds of fancy sailboats and ocean-going cruisers. In fact some people hitch-hike around the world by crewing on private yachts. But for most of us, it's the joys of dealing with airport security and a bankrupt airline that we have to deal with. Oahu is the air hub, and most flights are into and out of Honolulu Airport. There are direct flights from the mainland to Hilo on the Big Island, as well as Maui, however. Savvy travelers will try to arrange a trip from the mainland into Hilo, but out of Honolulu. With a stopover on Maui, they get a nice 3-island circuit tour. Unfortunately flights to Kauai are usually separate out-and-back trips from Honolulu. But most of would say that it's worth it :-). Caveat > If you visit Ala Moana Yacht Harbor on Oahu... Actually the name of the Yacht Harbor is Ala Wai. It's at the entrance to the Ala Wai Canal, near the Ala Moana Shopping Center, and boats exit to sea past Ala Moana Beach Park. > Oahu is the air hub, and most flights are into and out of Honolulu > Airport. There are direct flights from the mainland to Hilo on the Big [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > flights to Kauai are usually separate out-and-back trips from > Honolulu. But most of would say that it's worth it :-). Hilo? Divers would do much better flying direct to Kona. American, United, and Aloha all have nonstops from the mainland direct to Kona. And you're wrong about Kauai too, of course. United flies there nonstop from LAX and Oakland. >> Oahu is the air hub, and most flights are into and out of Honolulu >> Airport. There are direct flights from the mainland to Hilo on the Big [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Hilo? Divers would do much better flying direct to Kona. American, United, >and Aloha all have nonstops from the mainland direct to Kona. That's an option obviously. But the OP said he wanted to see volcanoes. If it were me, I'd fly into Hilo, tour the National Park, then go on directly to Kona. They could then fly out of Kona to whichever island is selected as a second choice. >And you're wrong about Kauai too, of course. United flies there nonstop >from LAX and Oakland. I said *usually.* And if one wishes to see two islands (as is the case here), if they flew directly into Lihue from the mainland, that still would require a separate flight from Kauai to whatever island. The going and coming options from the mainland often limit choices -- depending upon the starting city, the airline's connection options, and the added costs of freelancing flights if money is no object. There are lots of ways to do the connections. > Greetings, > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > Best Regards, Hi, I feel I should weigh in on this one since I live on Oahu, am a diver, and have been to, and dove off all the major islands in Hawaii. Maui is nice. Go there and have a good time. Get a condo. There are lots of them to be had at very reasonable prices. Make sure you get one with a kitchen and washer/dryer. You'll save some bucks by not eating out at every meal, and have to pack a whole heck of a lot less clothes. Go to the aquarium. http://www.mauioceancenter.com/ Go there before you go diving. It's one thing to listen to the divemaster talk about the fish you might see but quite another to stand in front of them and read about them. It will make your dives much more interesting. Who to dive with? Lahina Divers is a good, respectable, cattle boat. http://www.lahainadivers.com/ If you are more advanced and want a less crowded boat, then go with Ed Robinson. http://www.mauiscuba.com/erd1.htm But, be warned, they are selective in who they will accept so you should call ahead. Also, notice that Ed Robinson is out of Kihei, on the South Shore, and that can be a long drive if you are staying on the West Side. What to dive? Molokini Crater is definitely worth it. So is the back side of Molokini but that is an advanced dive. You'll have to prove you're qualified. Five graves is also a nice dive if the swells aren't too bad. http://shorediving.com/Earth/Hawaii/Maui/Five_Caves/index.htm This is mistakenly called "Five Caves" (there are only three lava tubes/caves) but if you do it as a shore dive, you will understand the real name (you enter the site through an old grave yard.) There are some other dives but most can be done as shore dives if you want to save the money and are willing to schlep the gear. http://shorediving.com/Earth/Hawaii/Maui/index.htm Otherwise, do a three tanker over to the Island of Lahina. There is some good diving there, if you can stomach the crossing. The channels between these Islands are notoriously rough water. If you have any training in physics, and spent some time playing in a wave tank, you can figure out why. That should also answer your question about inter-island travel. One last bit of advice about Maui, do the "Haleakala Sunrise Bike Tour." There is talk of shutting it down so do it now. It will be a highlight of you trip. However, plan ahead. Remember the rules of ascending to altitude. Also, consider a kayak tour. We own kayaks and go out all the time. When we have guests, we take them out kayaking. They always enjoy it. Something about getting out on the water, seeing the Islands from offshore, being one with the ocean... It's fun. As for what other Island to do? No choice: the Big Island. Right now the Volcano isn't just erupting but it's flowing into the sea. This is very worth seeing, especially at night. Just one bit of advice, wear good hiking shoes (lava is tough stuff to walk over,) bring a flashlight, and wear a hat with a very large bill. The one thing they don't warn you about is what happens when lava flows into the sea. It creates a mist that contains sulfuric acid. It stings the eyes and is uncomfortable but the experience is worth a little discomfort. As for diving on the Big Island, the only must do is the Manta Ray Night Dive. And it's a must do! We always use Jack's when we're there but there are plenty of other excellent operators. http://www.jacksdivinglocker.com/welcome.htm Jack's is kind of pricy and when you see their new shop, you'll understand why. Maybe you'd rather not pay for all that shine-ola. What else to do on the Big Island? Horse back riding. It's a Big Island and you can go horse back riding in the interior and think you were in Wyoming. Also, consider an air tour. They are costly, but they really give you some perspective about these Islands. Each of these Islands are small but complete ecosystems. Within just miles of each other you can have parched deserts and tropical rainforests. Seeing it from the air really brings it all together. It's a good brain stimulator for thinking about our planet as a whole. And along that vein, if you happen to find yourself in Hilo, there is a museum of the Hawaiian Islands run by NOAA http://www.hawaiireef.noaa.gov/center/welcome.html and it's worth a look. It's not worth going all the way to Hilo just for that museum but if you find yourself there... Anyway, hope all that helps. Enjoy your stay. eeo > -- > Todd H. > http://www.toddh.net/ > To reply by email replace _invalid_ with tdh > As for what other Island to do? No choice: the Big Island. Right now the > Volcano isn't just erupting but it's flowing into the sea. Is it, again? When we were just there (Dec. 19-24, then went to Maui for Christmas), there was no flow reaching the sea - all that was visible were some rather small flows up the hill, a bit inland from the last actual "at the water" activity. Sure sorry we missed it if it HAS made it back now....:( Bob M. >> As for what other Island to do? No choice: the Big Island. Right now the >> Volcano isn't just erupting but it's flowing into the sea. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > actual "at the water" activity. Sure sorry we missed it if it HAS made > it back now....:( Last I read, just a week ago. But you do bring up the point that these things change. Plan on going to the volcano. It's worth the trip. If you're lucky, the lava will be flowing into the see. If not, it's still worth the trip. eeo [tremendous advice snipped] My god this thread rocks. You all have been VERY helpful. Thanks so much for taking the time to give all of this informed and hugely helpful advice! Best Regards, -- Todd H. http://www.toddh.net/ > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Who to dive with? Lahina Divers is a good, respectable, cattle boat. > http://www.lahainadivers.com/ I would agree with the cattleboat description, but after experiencing "Capt. Alain" I would never recommend this shop to anyone. A nasty little divemaster who was constantly tapping his tank with a metal rod, herding his flock and scolding anyone who dared to stray. The quintessential cattleboat experience. Alan > I would agree with the cattleboat description, but after experiencing > "Capt. Alain" I would never recommend this shop to anyone. A nasty > little divemaster who was constantly tapping his tank with a metal rod, > herding his flock and scolding anyone who dared to stray. The > quintessential cattleboat experience. Sounds like you and I had the same guy. Lahaina Divers has always been a good operator for us, except, the last time we used them. And what you describe is just what happened to us. Very annoying but just one experience. > One last bit of advice about Maui, do the "Haleakala Sunrise Bike Tour." > There is talk of shutting it down so do it now. It will be a highlight of > you trip. However, plan ahead. Remember the rules of ascending to altitude. This was possibly the worst bicycle excursion I've ever done. Raining all day, cold at elevation, slippery surfaces, and 2000 rent a cars seemingly trying to run you over amidst all the hairpin turns on a pretty narrow, and poor, road surface. FTR I've done many cycling trips around the world and this one has nothing specific that I'd recommend. The view of course is great all along on a clear day but you enjoy it more driving than on a bike where you're just trying to survive....If it was a dedicated cycling trail, and it should be, my opinion would be much different but its NOT and be forewarned that you'll be fighting with inattentive, scenery watching, drivers who are literally running you off the road all day. just my two cents. > This was possibly the worst bicycle excursion I've ever done. Raining all > day, cold at elevation, slippery surfaces, and 2000 rent a cars seemingly [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > drivers who are literally running you off the road all day. just my two > cents. Well, if you are a "serious" biker, what are you doing on Maui? ... In fact, why don't you come over to my isle. We'll take care of you real quick. LOL Now listen: if you are really into road biking, don't come to Hawaii. Except for the Big Isle, you will only be courting death. Don't blame me. I didn't design the road systems. I'm just stating the facts. But it does amaze me that more and more I see these folks in their funky little outfits and $2K bikes, peddling down Kam Hwy. With me, they're lucky. I'm a patient man who drives slower than your Grandmother. But the guy behind me...? It kind of reminds me of a friend I knew in graduate school. He was studying Geology. He had this hilarious t-shirt that read: "Stop Plate Tectonics!" That one still makes me chuckle... And yes, the over-crowding is why they are talking about shutting the ride down. But, the views are incredible. And for the rest of us mere mortals: after getting woken up at 3am to see those views, we don't want to have to peddle. > > This was possibly the worst bicycle excursion I've ever done. Raining all > > day, cold at elevation, slippery surfaces, and 2000 rent a cars seemingly [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Well, if you are a "serious" biker, what are you doing on Maui? ... heh, I'm not a pro but just a pretty good rec cycler that used to be able to keep up with the elite. Emphasis on used to. I've participated in different road races and events just for how will I do kind of interest. Have also done the Jasper-Banff trip here in Alberta Canada which is an awesome trip. Truly a life altering experience. > In fact, why don't you come over to my isle. We'll take care of you real > quick. LOL heh, Now I'm even more hesitant to cycle in Hawaii ;-) > Now listen: if you are really into road biking, don't come to Hawaii. > Except for the Big Isle, you will only be courting death. Don't blame me. > I didn't design the road systems. I'm just stating the facts. So it sounds like we agree. Sorry for stepping in like I did but your original info on the Haleakala ride just sounded incomplete to me and I thought people should be also very aware of the drawbacks and what they're getting into. No offence intended. Usenet to me is best used as a getting the real goods info source, not the touristy everythings great and wonderful stuff you get elsewhere. FTR I think Hawaii is mostly great and wonderful just not this cycle trip. But it does > amaze me that more and more I see these folks in their funky little outfits > and $2K bikes, peddling down Kam Hwy. heh, just so you know I was properly dressed for haleakala and not going particularly slow but the road surface alone can throw you for a loop. Trouble for cyclers on busy, narrow, winding, roads always is that the driver assumes they're giving you some space on the road (usually inches) but the space is taken up by a washout, or a large rock, loose gravel etc and you can't do nothing but go OH NO!! and hang on for life sometimes. Not much room to avert or avoid on that trip and if you go the wrong way you're getting down the mountain much faster than intended <G> With me, they're lucky. I'm a > patient man who drives slower than your Grandmother. But the guy behind > me...? It kind of reminds me of a friend I knew in graduate school. He was > studying Geology. He had this hilarious t-shirt that read: "Stop Plate > Tectonics!" That one still makes me chuckle... LOL! I've seen that shirt its makes the rounds. I took 1st year Geology. > And yes, the over-crowding is why they are talking about shutting the ride > down. Just wondering if you know whether this is also due to how many accidents have occurred. > But, the views are incredible. Undeniably. Only thing better for me there was in NaPali coastline in Kauai or Hanelei bay or Hana or etc. I'm a hiker too and I live in a good place for it. I loved that I didn't have to worry about bears or other large carnivores in Hawaii. Just watch your step and enjoy the scenery. And for the rest of us mere mortals: after > getting woken up at 3am to see those views, we don't want to have to peddle. Yeah, the drive was fine and that leaves energy to take some of the trails once you're up there. > So it sounds like we agree. Sorry for stepping in like I did but your > original info on the Haleakala ride just sounded incomplete to me and I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > stuff you get elsewhere. FTR I think Hawaii is mostly great and wonderful > just not this cycle trip. Hawaii can be a wonderful vacation destination. But not if what you want to do is bicycle. Actually, the Big Isle would be good but please don't visit Oahu, or any of the other Isles if that's what you want to do on your vacation. > But it does > > amaze me that more and more I see these folks in their funky little [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > much room to avert or avoid on that trip and if you go the wrong way you're > getting down the mountain much faster than intended <G> It is the fear of accidents, and deaths, that is causing all the talk about shutting the ride down. Welcome to Hawaii. They can have the strangest responses to what you, on the Mainland, find to be not that difficult of a problem to solve. Personally, I think they should shut the entire road down between 3am-9am to anyone but liscensed tour operators. The problem is too much traffic. Fine, get rid of all the clueless tourists behind the wheel. If you want to see the sun rise from the Haleakala summit, then you will have to be part of a guided tour. And that's that. It doesn't sound like to much to ask in order to keep the event accessible for everyone. Does it? > With me, they're lucky. I'm a > > patient man who drives slower than your Grandmother. But the guy behind [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > for it. I loved that I didn't have to worry about bears or other large > carnivores in Hawaii. Just watch your step and enjoy the scenery. Isn't the Na Pali Coast fabulous? Actually, the Wife and I have our tenth wedding anniversary coming up. We are planning on spending it by paddling our kayaks along the Na Pali Coast. In theory, it will be an easy two-day trip, but we've never camped off our kayaks before. We've been spending a lot of time planning this one. I've spent enough time paddling about these Islands to know that nothing will go according to plan but it still should be a "trip of a lifetime." > > So it sounds like we agree. Sorry for stepping in like I did but your > > original info on the Haleakala ride just sounded incomplete to me and I [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Oahu, or any of the other Isles if that's what you want to do on your > vacation. Nah, bicycling isn't so big to me that I have to do it. I had a great time and had no intent to bicycle while in Hawaii at all. Just figured I'd take the Haleakala trip once I'd heard about it. > > But it does > > > amaze me that more and more I see these folks in their funky little [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > It is the fear of accidents, and deaths, that is causing all the talk about > shutting the ride down. No doubt. Welcome to Hawaii. They can have the strangest > responses to what you, on the Mainland, find to be not that difficult of a > problem to solve. Personally, I think they should shut the entire road down [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > have to be part of a guided tour. And that's that. It doesn't sound like > to much to ask in order to keep the event accessible for everyone. Does it? Not sure I agree. Losing the cycle tour is the right way to go as that represents just a very small portion of the overall users. They shouldn't have ever gone with the Haleakala cycle tour in the 1st place. Somebody thought it was a good idea and it goes from there. sometimes it shouldn't... btw if you got rid of all the clueless tourists behind the wheel who would be left? <G> Hawaii's bad on drivers. SO much to see and so distracting. Its far better being a passenger but nobody wants to do the driving and everybody wants to look at the beautiful scenery. > > Just wondering if you know whether this is also due to how many accidents > > have occurred. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Isn't the Na Pali Coast fabulous? Fantastic. Undescribably beautiful valleys, cliff faces of which you're a little speck somewhere on the mountain looking down on the expanse of sublimely blue endless ocean meeting sky. Hard trail though and people should be prepared as the trail surface erodes drastically with rain. What with the slippery surface and cliffs going straight down and seeing the breakers more than 1000 feet below not always for the timid at heart. My wife was unnerved at times and did the four legged backcrawl through some of the hardest areas. Her clothes were neatly covered in Kauai natural ochre pigment after that. I loved the whole island of Kauai. Its my favorite. Actually, the Wife and I have our tenth > wedding anniversary coming up. We are planning on spending it by paddling > our kayaks along the Na Pali Coast. In theory, it will be an easy two-day > trip, but we've never camped off our kayaks before. We've been spending a > lot of time planning this one. I've spent enough time paddling about these > Islands to know that nothing will go according to plan but it still should > be a "trip of a lifetime." That sounds fantastic. Hope you have a great time and what a wonderful thing to do on your anniversary. Sounds like we share a sense of what we like to do on special occasions. Heres a place not too far away from where I live that I try to get to on my birthday. http://www.pigseye.com/mc/canada/edith_cavell.htm >The one thing they don't warn you about is what happens when lava >flows into the sea. It creates a mist that contains sulfuric acid. >It stings the eyes and is uncomfortable but the experience is >worth a little discomfort. One nitpick: when the hot lava hits the water, it generates clouds of hydrochloric acid, not sulfuric acid. I would disagree with eeo and tell you to stay out of the steam clouds in any case; a lungful of acid is not a good idea. http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/main.html is a good place to check on current lava conditions. I went to Hawaii last year for the first time. I read everything, including a hawaii book. All indicators were to stay off Oahu and Honolulu. U..scary traffic, scary city..scary etc. I really wanted to see Waikiki and the North Shore. Against all advise I went to Oahu for a week. Guess what....all of the negative advises were a pile of feces. I loved Honolulu, the japanese influence, all the friendly people, the very orderly traffic and thew waikiki surfing every morning was great. I advise you, go to Oahu and you will enjoy it. There are so much to see and do and not do if you want to. In relation to traffic ..... I saw traffic but was smart enough Some epeople think they know better and they do not. Guess what, I also went to Maui, and I enjoy it very much also. But side by side, BOTH island were beautiful in their own way. I would go back anytime to Oahu. Looking forward to go this year to the Big Island and Kauai. Just because I want to see different things, but would be very happy to stay at Honolulu again for a few days. Even did scuba diving at Oahu and also was great. Happy travels. >Greetings, > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > >Best Regards, I just returned from three weeks in Hawaii. - bags are still loaded with dirty clothes, but I'll take time to add my 2 cents... ======== =========== ========== ========= ======== ======= Honolulu is not so bad if you know where to go on Oahu and how to get there. We rented a car for a day and drove the Pali highway to Pali lookout, up to Valley of the Temples, North Shore for some photos of 18 foot waves and great surfers, picnic lunch at Waimea Bay, a short tour of Dole, some ice cream and back to Honolulu, and (the ladies) shopped at Alo Moana Mall - A great Day!! Many say you don't need a car on Oahu and that is true if you have a lot of time. The busses are great - we took them to Hanauma Bay for a day of sun and snorkeling with the fishes, and another day to climb Diamond Head. If we had more time in Oahu I would get a bus pass and take a lot of day trips. We had great inexpensive suppers at (fast food) Wolfgang Puck's and sat there by the beach watching the Pacific Rim people of all sorts many evenings. We did a beautiful dinner at The Pacific Beach Hotel buffet in front of their two story aquarium. Nice free shows - music - dancing -on Waikiki beach each evening at 6pm. So, yes Honolulu is a big north american city but most big north american cities don't have a tropical beach a few steps from your door, rain forests, hiking trails, etc... But we then also stayed 10 days on the Big Island and 7 days on Maui each were spectacular. You do need a car on each of these islands to enjoy the sites. One of the best Big Island kept secrets is Makalawena Beach. No facilities, really hard to get to, but what a place!!! If anyone has been there you know what I mean. I did not like the "public" beaches on the Big Island that have been taken over by the corporate hotels. Sure, they are groomed and convenient but, getting a "pass" and "permission" to enter then having to walk a great deal to find some quiet spot... not our thing. Hapuna Beach, once a great beach is getting very crowded and lacking in clean facilities. We drove the entire island, visiting the Botanical Gardens on the short "scenic drive" on the way to Hilo - Magnificent (and I am not into gardening) - it was a great Rain Forest Jungle experience. (Be sure to use insect repellent). Short walk (hike?) to Akaka Falls; vsited the Tsunami Museum in Hilo (very relevent today). Watched them pick and pack the delicious Macadamia Nuts at tha Mauno Loa factory. Drove to the top of Mauna Loa crater - with more time there are nice hiling trails through the Park. Snorkeled at Kealakekua(?) Beach south of Kona with a million others but saw a lot of beatiful fish, and once you're under water it is just you and the sea creatures. Another good place is Spencer beach near Kawalhae Visited Parker ranch in Kamuela (Waimea) - Walked up to the top of Waipio Valley, ask a local where to turn for the trail. And then after all those magnificent places there is ... Maui! We stayed at a condo in Ma'alaea - nice a quiet with 4(?) miles of open beach - access to the charters at Ma'alaea harbor if you wanted to dive. With a car everything is close, it is a small island. Drove the (narrow!!!) Hana Highway - lots of photo ops and hiking trails - watched spectacular surfers at Hanomanu(?) Bay - just follow a map of the road (lots a' free maps in the visitor's guides). Snorkeled at Ahihi Beach (not really a beach) just a rocky entrance beside a narrow public road - but worth it - there were scuba people there too. Lots of beatiful sites, Iao needle (try to arrive before the tourist busses), Whale watching from the scenic lookouts and from our condo balcony. But when they say this kind of watching they mean - you see evidence of whales; spouts, splashes, and maybe if you are lucky a fin or tail for a second. But it was fun. Hope that helps - and I am just coming down from a three week high. Cheers (Oh yeah, and there is two feet of snow in my driveway and it is -4F tonight - Augh!) So, I'm going to watch "LOST" and dream about the Pali Valley! :-) +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + The News Guy(Mike) - Seinfeld Lists + (two mirrored sites) + http://membres.lycos.fr/tnguym + http://wave.prohosting.com/tnguym NOWTHISWORKS + All things Seinfeld; scripts, trivia, lists, +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ First I want to thank everyone who contributed to this thread--you all were a big help! Unfortunately economics got involved and I cut my vacation back and simplified a bit. I was able to find a package that dropped me on Maui for 10 days at the Ritz Carlton including airfare from Chicago for less than $4k total for 2. Comparing with other hotels and even remotely as nice places, I couldn't muster a lower number. Next time I'll look into some of the condos more--they seem to be the best bang for the buck in general. Something tells me this won't be my only trip to the Hawaiian islands. :-) Thanks again! Best Regards, -- Todd H. http://www.toddh.net/ > First I want to thank everyone who contributed to this thread--you all > were a big help! [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > best bang for the buck in general. Something tells me this won't be > my only trip to the Hawaiian islands. :-) Just curious and please don't take this the wrong way but I can't help but wonder why you would cut down length of stay due to economics and ... you're staying at the Ritz Carlton? IMHO the point of going is * just being* in Hawaii and not Chicago ;) I'd stay in a tent if it was the only way I could afford it. FTR 4K Canadian has got me 3 weeks in Hawaii with reasonable accomodation on 3 islands and airfare and interisland passes. I'm in Edmonton and believe me I'd rather be there longer than here! 10days is great but why not maximize Time instead of 5star next time? <snip> >Edmonton and believe me I'd rather be there longer than here! >10days is great but why not maximize Time instead of 5star next time? I'm with you - and *I* find a nice condo WAY better than any hotel room. Here are me pics from my recent three week visit. http://tnguym.50megs.com/index.htm +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + The News Guy(Mike) - Seinfeld Lists + (two mirrored sites) + http://membres.lycos.fr/tnguym + http://wave.prohosting.com/tnguym NOWTHISWORKS + All things Seinfeld; scripts, trivia, lists, +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > http://tnguym.50megs.com/index.htm Great pictures, thanks for sharing them. looks like we did some of the same stuff out there. Hana, Haleakala, I liked your Condo beach and malakawena, Hilo, pictures the best. I'm a prairie boy sucker for beach, surf, pictures. That and the natural flora and fauna. Seems like you capture the same scenes I do. Looks like I would've liked Hilo we didn't make it on the Big Island but did Maui, Kauai and Oahu in that order. I think its about right as Maui is a good Hawaii primer, has a little of everything, Kauai is a much more intense experience (absolutely loved it) and Oahu gets you set for going back home what with the more urban pace on one part of the island. As you discovered though Oahu has some great off the beaten track places and for people that just want one island, no worries, no need for a car I'd recommend it. It strikes me that Oahu is a very beautiful island, somewhat like Kauai and its not surprising why Oahu was the island first heavily sought after for habitation. I didn't go to the big Island yet and still not sure about it other than the Hilo side. Interested in your opinions. What I most liked about Kauai is that it is a magical, somewhat small island that you can explore efficiently and have more time to stop and enjoy the sights while always being not far from the beach. People who don't need to see lots of Waikiki, or development and just want a more serene experience would do well to just go to Kauai it seems. When I'm planning a trip I max out the time as mentioned and minimize the cost as Hawaii for instance deserves the time. IMO it would be tragic to go there for just a week unless you were able to do so say annually. I have no difficulty sticking to a 100dollar canadian/night price for two range in Hawaii and having reasonable, comfortable, accomodation and always with kitchen. To me it would detract or distract from my experience knowing I'm spending 3-400bucks per night and one tends to feel that they need to spend more time in the resort to somehow justify that expense. Paying a bare minimum and viewing your accomodation as just primarily a place to sleep or kick back allows you more time and freedom to spend in Hawaii, not in a contrived resort. Sorry about the rambling discourse and I'm sure many don't agree but just my opinion. I definitely don't go for the all inclusive resorts which tend to keep you tied down more instead of seeing the sights and experiencing the people and place. In Mexico I'd suppose its the way to go. > I definitely don't go for the all inclusive > resorts which tend to keep you tied down more instead of seeing the sights > and experiencing the people and place. In Mexico I'd suppose its the way > to go. Why is all-inclusive the way to go in Mexico, but not Hawaii? The Mexican people are much friendlier than Hawaiians and they have very nice sights. Why wouldn't you want to experience them too? > > I definitely don't go for the all inclusive > > resorts which tend to keep you tied down more instead of seeing the sights [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Why is all-inclusive the way to go in Mexico, but not Hawaii? The Mexican > people are much friendlier than Hawaiians and they have very nice sights. Are you inferrring that my comment was prejudicial in nature to the mexican people? It wasn't, its just my feelings about relative safety in Mexico. I find your comment about Mexicans being friendlier than Hawaiians in the context odd if you are at all judging my comment. Hawaiian people I have met are plenty friendly. Regardless, people are people but some economies, facts of life, make some areas inordinately safer than others. When I travel I like to target places where I won't be targeted.....My suggestion on the all-inclusive being more the way to go in Mexico is founded on the beaten track is the safer way to go there thats all. The proliferation and domination of that form of tourism industry in mexico is there for a reason and tends to confirm my view. Ask yourself what proportion of people who go to Mexico wander off the beaten track or stray from the carefully guided and in many cases armed tours or even venture off farther than the local town. Not the way I prefer to spend my vacation. > Why wouldn't you want to experience them too? I would, I have a particular interest in the surviviving Mayan, Aztec, ruins and even colonial architecture. But I have no interest in running into the local drug cartel, or insurgents, or some roadside unauthorized checkpoint with semi-automatic rifles, or meeting someone who would kill me in an instant because the cash in my pocket was more than they'd earn in a year. Or crooked police, or corrupt jurispudence. Not to mention the potentially bad water or food found outside the resorts. Hope this makes it more clear. > Are you inferrring that my comment was prejudicial in nature to the > mexican > people? It wasn't, its just my feelings about relative safety in Mexico. But the U.S. is much more dangerous than Mexico. Hawaii has horrific rates of theft from tourists, assaults against tourists, and drugs and prostitution are rampant. > I > find your comment about Mexicans being friendlier than Hawaiians in the > context odd if you are at all judging my comment. Hawaiian people I have > met are plenty friendly. Sure, all the tour group leaders pretend to be friendly. That's how they earn tips. Try getting off the beaten path a bit and see how friendly the locals are to haole tourists. > Regardless, people are people but some economies, > facts of life, make some areas inordinately safer than others. When I > travel I like to target places where I won't be targeted.....My suggestion > on the all-inclusive being more the way to go in Mexico is founded on the > beaten track is the safer way to go there thats all. That's utterly ridiculous. The beaten track is the way all naive tourists go, leading the pack for the thugs who prey on tourists to follow. > The proliferation and > domination of that form of tourism industry in mexico is there for a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > and > in many cases armed tours or even venture off farther than the local town. Domination? What do you know about Mexico? Name one place outside the Playa del Carmen area where all-inclusives dominate. They only proliferate because of silly Canadians like you who are afraid of anyone with darker skin who doesn't speak English very well. > Not the way I prefer to spend my vacation. That's what it sounds like to me. > But I have no interest in running into the local drug cartel, or > insurgents, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > jurispudence. Not to mention the potentially bad water or food found > outside the resorts. God are you stupid. > Hope this makes it more clear. Oh yeah. You're afraid of any place outside of Canada that doesn't look exactly like Canada, complete with bland food and shopping malls. Very clear. Why don't you just take cruise ships? Then you don't even have to leave the boat. > > Are you inferrring that my comment was prejudicial in nature to the > > mexican [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > of theft from tourists, assaults against tourists, and drugs and > prostitution are rampant. Mexico has higher rates of murder of tourists more than a few that have come from where I live. Hawaii used to have much more of a marijuana grow industry than they do now but its largely wiped out its primarily crystal meth now just like on the continent. > > I > > find your comment about Mexicans being friendlier than Hawaiians in the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > earn tips. Try getting off the beaten path a bit and see how friendly the > locals are to haole tourists. I explored the islands entirely, got well of the beaten track and never had a problem. I didn't have a problem largely because I didn't act like an ahole haole. > > Regardless, people are people but some economies, > > facts of life, make some areas inordinately safer than others. When I [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > That's utterly ridiculous. The beaten track is the way all naive tourists > go, leading the pack for the thugs who prey on tourists to follow. Are you the local abusive troll around here and I somehow missed that? If anybodys reading this please fill me in. > > The proliferation and > > domination of that form of tourism industry in mexico is there for a [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Domination? What do you know about Mexico? Name one place outside the > Playa del Carmen area where all-inclusives dominate. OK, I'll play. Manzanillo, Acapulco, Ixtapa, Puerto Vallarta, Mazatlan, to name just a few and any other fly to destination that all the tourists seem to go. They only proliferate > because of silly Canadians like you who are afraid of anyone with darker > skin who doesn't speak English very well. Yes Greg, I'm sure that must be it.......... > > Not the way I prefer to spend my vacation. > > That's what it sounds like to me. I'm certainly getting an impression on this end > > But I have no interest in running into the local drug cartel, or > > insurgents, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > God are you stupid. you deny all of the above? > > Hope this makes it more clear. > > Oh yeah. You're afraid of any place outside of Canada that doesn't look > exactly like Canada, complete with bland food and shopping malls. Very > clear. Why don't you just take cruise ships? Then you don't even have to > leave the boat. I like all types of food just not that are likely to cause intestinal problems for the duration of the holiday and possibly much more serious including hepatitis. Just Because I prefer a safe holiday for my family you see this as a reason to suggest I'm the type that doesn't get off tour boats? Go on thinking whatever you want to think and I'll keep enjoying my safe exploration just the same. I guess that I prefer going to Hawaii rather than Mexico because I CAN explore pretty much every region escapes you..... (snip)> I like all types of food just not that are likely to cause intestinal > problems for the duration of the holiday and possibly much more serious > including hepatitis. Get your shots then. It's easy enough to do. (snip) > (snip)> I like all types of food just not that are likely to cause > intestinal [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Get your shots then. It's easy enough to do. > (snip) Obviously someone as practical as Marior would never subject his family to needles. Vacations are supposed to be fun, aren't they? BTW, did your Honduran malaria go away yet? It's nice and sunny here today but I can't leave home because of West Nile Virus and the high crime rate in Los Angeles County. I can look out the windows, though. All those crazy people jogging by, risking twisting an ankle and getting hit by a car. Besides, what virus would want to live in my liver? > > Get your shots then. It's easy enough to do. > > (snip) > > Obviously someone as practical as Marior would never subject his family to > needles. Apparently, since he's still worried about hepatitis. >Vacations are supposed to be fun, aren't they? Mine certainly are. > BTW, did your Honduran malaria go away yet? No, I had a reoccurance and now the super-meds side-effects are almost more unpleasant than the illness. > It's nice and sunny here today It has been lovely here for a couple of weeks now. > but I can't leave home because of West Nile Virus and the high crime rate in > Los Angeles County. I can look out the windows, though. Try not to get blinded by the light. > All those crazy > people jogging by, risking twisting an ankle and getting hit by a car. Well, why don't you go jog up in the hills on the paths? I'm thinking a little outside time might improve your mood. Or you could be doing a little searching for a piece of paper that your mom saved and take your mind off of pod-people wearing dark socks and sandals. > Besides, what virus would want to live in my liver? Don't you mean what virus could live in your liver? > > (snip)> I like all types of food just not that are likely to cause > > intestinal [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Obviously someone as practical as Marior would never subject his family to > needles. Vacations are supposed to be fun, aren't they? good point..... > BTW, did your Honduran malaria go away yet? Yikes! ;) It's nice and sunny here today > but I can't leave home because of West Nile Virus heh, I know I'm just giving you material to work with here but where I live West Nile is a new thing and they recommend: "that you don't make contact with mosquitoes" uh, OK, but uh, they keep chasing me?!? Mosquitoes here fortunately are big enough that you hear them coming in like dive bombers but nothing works on the paleolithic buggers. They appear to just associate muskol with a human blood appetizer now.. and the high crime rate in > Los Angeles County. I can look out the windows, though. All those crazy > people jogging by, risking twisting an ankle and getting hit by a car. > > Besides, what virus would want to live in my liver? Its stocked up on preventative Tequila based vaccine? > Its stocked up on preventative Tequila based vaccine? The same disinfectant that 9 out of 10 doctors and hospitals recommend. (I tried drinking Betadine once but it was terrible) (snip)> > heh, I know I'm just giving you material to work with here but where I live > West Nile is a new thing and they recommend: > > "that you don't make contact with mosquitoes" :^) > uh, OK, but uh, they keep chasing me?!? Mosquitoes here fortunately are big > enough that you hear them coming in like dive bombers but nothing works on > the paleolithic buggers. They appear to just associate muskol with a human > blood appetizer now.. I was using Muskol while in Roatan. Didn't seem to be doing a thing. I switched to Deep Woods Off and that seemed to work somewhat better. I can't explain it since they both have the same amount of DEET. And for the record, I don't have Roatan malaria (at least not yet that I'm aware of). I did bring home some nasty Roatan cold/flu thing that was going around. There have been some complications since then but now I'm taking supermeds that make me sick as they cure my other symptoms. (snip) > (snip)> I like all types of food just not that are likely to cause > intestinal [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Get your shots then. It's easy enough to do. > (snip) Good call, what was I thinking? I used a poor example. Any risk to those shots? <G> Just joking...really... > Mexico has higher rates of murder of tourists more than a few that have > come > from where I live. Hawaii used to have much more of a marijuana grow > industry than they do now but its largely wiped out its primarily crystal > meth now just like on the continent. Only naive tourists like you get themselves robbed and murdered. Hawaii is a tourist microcosm, like Disneyland. It has one of the highest larceny rates in the U.S. > I explored the islands entirely, got well of the beaten track and never > had > a problem. I didn't have a problem largely because I didn't act like an > ahole haole. Sure you did. Well off the beaten track. What, did you venture off Waikiki Beach and get all the way to the Dole House of Tourism? Or perhaps you did the Polynesian Culture Center. Aren't you worldly. > Are you the local abusive troll around here and I somehow missed that? If > anybodys reading this please fill me in. You're the troll here. Posting your "I never leave the safety of the minimall" crap here in rec.scuba.locations where we routinely travel to the remotest ends of the earth in search of the ultimate dive. Take it to rec.cruises or rec.lawrence-welk if you want sympathy. > OK, I'll play. Manzanillo, Acapulco, Ixtapa, Puerto Vallarta, Mazatlan, to > name just a few and any other fly to destination that all the tourists > seem > to go. "That all the tourists seem to go" Since you never get off the beaten path, how would you know how many tourists go elsewhere? Just because you're too afraid to visit Chitzen Itza, do you really believe all the other tourists follow suit? >> > But I have no interest in running into the local drug cartel, or >> > insurgents, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > you deny all of the above? I don't deny that you're stupid. But I have been off the beaten path in Mexico and I have yet to run into the local drug cartel or insurgents. I have been stopped plenty of times at authorized roadside checkpoints but since I wasn't carry drugs or guns I had nothing to worry about. I'm smart enough not to hang out in the sorts of places where someone would kill me in an instant because the cash in my pocket was worth more than they'd earn in a year, but then I don't hang out at those sorts of places in Los Angeles either. Crooked police don't bother me since I don't do anything to get me caught. And when I do, I prefer being let off with a small bribe rather than having to go to court to pay a speeding fine. If you think all food outside an all-inclusive is somehow harmful you're really kidding yourself. All-inclusives have the worst food possible and it's much more likely you'll get sick from some brat sneezing in the buffet than from a well-prepared 'real' meal outside the walls. As for water, I routinely drink bottled water at home so why would I want to chug tap water in Mexico? Bottled water is cheap and easy to find there. Most hotels supply purified or bottled water for use in the rooms, brushing teeth, etc. On the other hand, given the nature of maintenance in Mexico, it's likely that the filters 'purifying' the all-inclusive water supply haven't been changed in years and the stuff you're drinking there is much worse than anything I drink out of a bottle. > I like all types of food just not that are likely to cause intestinal > problems for the duration of the holiday and possibly much more serious [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > rather than Mexico because I CAN explore pretty much every region escapes > you..... You can't explore every region. Try going to Niihau, for instance. Regardless, it's not 'exploring' when you're walking the same paved paths as all the other camera-laden, shorts-with-dark-socks wearing tourists. Have you drove the back road from Hana? The West Maui Mountains? Or did you skip the places that would "violate the rental car contract"? Figures. That's perfectly fine with me, though. As long as you cruise-ship types stay on the boat it will keep the true gems nice and quiet. I'll be vacating in the real world, dodging bullets at every step. > > Mexico has higher rates of murder of tourists more than a few that have > > come [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Only naive tourists like you get themselves robbed and murdered. My but you have such pent up anger. You hate tourists? Thats it right? > Hawaii is a tourist microcosm, like Disneyland. It has one of the highest > larceny rates in the U.S. Understood. I use precaution wherever I go. > > I explored the islands entirely, got well of the beaten track and never > > had [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Beach and get all the way to the Dole House of Tourism? Or perhaps you did > the Polynesian Culture Center. Aren't you worldly. Several hikes, one overnight. I exlored the area as heavily as I could in the time I had and not at all in the manner in which you described. Big deal Right? its not enough, right? nothing I say would be would it right? Got you figured Greg. > > Are you the local abusive troll around here and I somehow missed that? If > > anybodys reading this please fill me in. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > remotest ends of the earth in search of the ultimate dive. Take it to > rec.cruises or rec.lawrence-welk if you want sympathy. 1st I never cross posted it and its a long thread and i'm not quite sure who did. I didn't note that it was cross posted at all and sorry for that. 2nd , where does this come from " "I never leave the safety of the > minimall" crap" Not sure where you got that indication. Any place I've chose to go to I've been well off the beaten track and rarely on any sort of tour. I like nature, not urban development. > > OK, I'll play. Manzanillo, Acapulco, Ixtapa, Puerto Vallarta, Mazatlan, to > > name just a few and any other fly to destination that all the tourists [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > tourists go elsewhere? Just because you're too afraid to visit Chitzen > Itza, do you really believe all the other tourists follow suit? Afraid? so tell me do you go to say Iraq as a tourist just because you're not afraid? Where exactly do YOU draw the line. > >> > But I have no interest in running into the local drug cartel, or > >> > insurgents, [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > I don't deny that you're stupid. Source noted..... > But I have been off the beaten path in Mexico and I have yet to run into the > local drug cartel or insurgents. I have been stopped plenty of times at [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > being let off with a small bribe rather than having to go to court to pay a > speeding fine. While the above sounds like a good time to you and you're understating the risk its not exactly my thing and I personally prefer to go to Hawaii so no one sticks a gun in my face and its certainly worked so far. I'll pick my preference and you pick yours... sounds fair. > If you think all food outside an all-inclusive is somehow harmful you're > really kidding yourself. All-inclusives have the worst food possible and > it's much more likely you'll get sick from some brat sneezing in the buffet > than from a well-prepared 'real' meal outside the walls. For the record I abhor all inclusives which you would gather if you actually read the posts to which you're vehemently replying to so save your pulpit lecture. As for water, I > routinely drink bottled water at home so why would I want to chug tap water > in Mexico? Bottled water is cheap and easy to find there. Most hotels [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > changed in years and the stuff you're drinking there is much worse than > anything I drink out of a bottle. Agreed. > > I like all types of food just not that are likely to cause intestinal > > problems for the duration of the holiday and possibly much more serious [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > You can't explore every region. Try going to Niihau, for instance. You know, I specifically said: "pretty much every region" because I was already aware of the specific exclusions and your expected response and you do it anyway........ You do love to argue don't you Greg! > Regardless, it's not 'exploring' when you're walking the same paved paths as > all the other camera-laden, shorts-with-dark-socks wearing tourists. Let me guess again. Do you hate tourists Greg? > Have you drove the back road from Hana? Yes The West Maui Mountains? No Or did you > skip the places that would "violate the rental car contract"? Figures. and thats your rating scale? drives? LOL!... hiked/biked haleakala all the way back to Hana need not apply? how about entire Napali coast trail hike in Kauai? any other hikes qualify? Now Greg, tell me whether you just specifically toured those routes so that you could mentally yet again extricate yourself from some form of association with all those tourists that you despise so much and yet in reality you are one and quite chronic from the sounds of it. One day you'll have shorts and dark socks on. <G> But no, you're somehow different from all the others, right, I can't forget that... > That's perfectly fine with me, though. As long as you cruise-ship types > stay on the boat it will keep the true gems nice and quiet. I'll be > vacating in the real world, dodging bullets at every step. Have fun, and give other people just a bit of a break and maybe you'd have even more. cheers >> Only naive tourists like you get themselves robbed and murdered. > > My but you have such pent up anger. You hate tourists? Thats it right? Nope, just naive tourists like you and the rest of the cruisers. When you leave the safety and seclusion of your all-inclusive or you get off the boat, you impinge on the rest of us. > Understood. I use precaution wherever I go. Then you'd have no problem visiting the 'wilds' of Mexico or most other places. > 1st I never cross posted it and its a long thread and i'm not quite sure > who > did. I didn't note that it was cross posted at all and sorry for that. Apology accepted. > Afraid? so tell me do you go to say Iraq as a tourist just because you're > not afraid? Where exactly do YOU draw the line. That's a tough question. Countries at war are usually to be avoided. That's probably where I'd draw the line. Small insurgencies don't bother me. It has to be real war. > While the above sounds like a good time to you and you're understating the > risk its not exactly my thing and I personally prefer to go to Hawaii so > no > one sticks a gun in my face and its certainly worked so far. I'll pick my > preference and you pick yours... sounds fair. Why am I understating the risk? I feel a lot safer (and probably am) walking the streets of a little town in Mexico at night than I would in Compton (a 45 minute drive from home) or even Waikiki what with all the drugs and hookers walking around. You may prefer to expose your family to drugs and hookers instead of the Catholic values of a small picturesque Mexican village. That's fair. > For the record I abhor all inclusives which you would gather if you > actually > read the posts to which you're vehemently replying to so save your pulpit > lecture. You brought them up, telling us how safe and exciting they are. > Agreed. That's a change. Good. I'll add that to your apology. We're getting somewhere finally. > You know, I specifically said: "pretty much every region" because I was > already aware of the specific exclusions and your expected response and > you > do it anyway........ You do love to argue don't you Greg! I no longer get paid for it so it's a hobby. But the fact is, there are only a few areas of Mexico where you'd want to avoid or at least take precautions. Mexico City has declined over the past years, yet I'd still risk it in a heartbeat. That and remote areas of a few southern states which host local rebellions and perhaps the drug corridor through Sinaloa are the only areas to stay out of if you want to ensure a safe trip. You exaggerate the risks. You're much more likely to die hiking around Hawaii then suffer much more than a stomach bug because your weak Canadian stomach can't handle the salsa. Do you know how many tourists get injured or killed hiking around Hawaii? > Let me guess again. Do you hate tourists Greg? The shorts-with-dark-socks wearing kind? The kind that pile out of large buses? Uh, yeah. > No Wuss. > and thats your rating scale? drives? LOL!... hiked/biked haleakala all > the > way back to Hana need not apply? how about entire Napali coast trail hike > in Kauai? any other hikes qualify? Anyone can walk, except for cripples and those with no legs. Bicycles are for schoolchildren, though I did succumb to the ultra-touristy ride down Haleakala. Real men drive. But I am surprised you risked your family's life by hiking and (shudder) biking around Hawaii. That's crazy. I didn't realize I was dealing with a lunatic. No wonder you're not very responsive. > Now Greg, tell me whether you just specifically toured those routes so > that [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > all > the others, right, I can't forget that... I will never wear shorts with dark socks. Old men wearing shorts and white socks look cool, especially with a cool hat. > Have fun, and give other people just a bit of a break and maybe you'd have > even more. I'm in a better mood when I'm on the road. Unfortunately it's 21 more days before I leave to explore the swamps and the dangerous underbelly of the Big Easy outside of the confines of an all-inclusive. I might get bitten by an alligator or have my drink spiked by a mean Cajun, but it's a risk I'm willing to take. > >> Only naive tourists like you get themselves robbed and murdered. > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > leave the safety and seclusion of your all-inclusive or you get off the > boat, you impinge on the rest of us. Let me know how to do some more impinging... anything other than dark socks? > > Understood. I use precaution wherever I go. > > Then you'd have no problem visiting the 'wilds' of Mexico or most other > places. Statistically, thats highly probable. I could go to Columbia for vacation and have a astronomically high probability of getting out. That said some places are still just riskier than others. > > 1st I never cross posted it and its a long thread and i'm not quite sure > > who > > did. I didn't note that it was cross posted at all and sorry for that. > > Apology accepted. knew you'd say that. > > Afraid? so tell me do you go to say Iraq as a tourist just because you're > > not afraid? Where exactly do YOU draw the line. > > That's a tough question. Countries at war are usually to be avoided. > That's probably where I'd draw the line. Small insurgencies don't bother > me. It has to be real war. heh, we have decidedly different takes on the stay away levels... now I'm kinda wondering whether say Columbia, Indonesia, have any decent dive ops you've frequented? > > While the above sounds like a good time to you and you're understating the > > risk its not exactly my thing and I personally prefer to go to Hawaii so [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > walking the streets of a little town in Mexico at night than I would in > Compton (a 45 minute drive from home) On this one it turns out you're right. >or even Waikiki Nah, its relatively safe, certainly safer than mexico http://www.benbest.com/lifeext/murder.html#world Turns out Honolulu is the safest city in America in regards to the stat I'm most concerned about. Homicide. Hawaii as a state is also about as *murderous* as Iowa, New Hampshire, and Idaho. Exactly what I figured. This is highly consistent with my view on Hawaii feeling like a relatively safe place Greg. Any rebuttal? Mexico on the other hand is pretty much where I figured it would be in 6th place worldwide in a category where Columbia appears to have it all wrapped up. From this it can be inferred that theres only 5 worse places than Mexico to go to in the globe from a chiefly safety perspective in the world. But wait, it gets worse! http://www.nationmaster.com/red/graph-T/cri_mur_cap&int=-1 This above link again has Mexico again in the running in 6th place in homicide but click on mexico for more... hmmmm seems they also have some problems with assault, kidnappings, firearms, rapes, and manslaughter (I'd assume some of that numero uno ranked in the world stat is due to vehicular but....) Click on manslaughter for how well Mexico is doing in that stat. Clear world beaters, yep. I'd certainly wonder myself whether any of those were possibly homicides but irregardless Homicide and manslaughter both basically amount to: *somebodys dead* and in Mexico often for highly suspicious reasons. My point is throw in manslaughter and Mexico offers up probably the most likely chance anywhere in the world of ending up getting yourself killed. Greg, given some of this please explain where, how, I was wrong before. what with all the > drugs and hookers walking around. You may prefer to expose your family to > drugs and hookers instead of the Catholic values of a small picturesque > Mexican village. That's fair. Until this point I was taking you somewhat seriously but its clear you've been pulling my leg... For the sake of your argument I'd certainly hope thats what you were doing. You can just say yes.... Mexico? Prostitution? Picturesque? The very many prostitutes there are certainly not picturesque, and although they may be catholic, I'm not sure how it all jives with the local bishop, but they are all out there. Lots of hail mary contrition going on apparently. Hard to get any #'s for this stat in Mexico cuz prostitution there is essentially LEGAL!. > > For the record I abhor all inclusives which you would gather if you > > actually [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > That's a change. Good. I'll add that to your apology. We're getting > somewhere finally. Your response to this post will be more telling I suspect. > > You know, I specifically said: "pretty much every region" because I was > > already aware of the specific exclusions and your expected response and > > you > > do it anyway........ You do love to argue don't you Greg! > > I no longer get paid for it so it's a hobby. You're a Lawyer? (analyzing relative risk of asking this;)) > But the fact is, there are only a few areas of Mexico where you'd want to > avoid or at least take precautions. Mexico City has declined over the past > years, yet I'd still risk it in a heartbeat. That and remote areas of a few > southern states which host local rebellions and perhaps the drug corridor > through Sinaloa are the only areas to stay out of if you want to ensure a > safe trip. You exaggerate the risks. Only in response to your whaddya mean Mexico is WAY safer than Hawaii initial silly premise. You're much more likely to die hiking > around Hawaii then suffer much more than a stomach bug because your weak > Canadian stomach can't handle the salsa. Do you know how many tourists get > injured or killed hiking around Hawaii? Plenty I'd bet. but its a risk I'll take.... hiking is clearly my drug of choice. A landslide or maybe concealed lavatube or whatever can happen in certain locations but other than that I'm sure footed enough not to take the quick elevator down the cliff. > > Let me guess again. Do you hate tourists Greg? > > The shorts-with-dark-socks wearing kind? The kind that pile out of large > buses? Uh, yeah. The dark socks thing I'll have to remember to work on more. The piling out of tour buses?? Not a chance bud! > > No > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Anyone can walk, except for cripples and those with no legs. Bicycles are > for schoolchildren, to prove I'm not a famous cross poster by intent this hasn't been directed to alt.rec.cycling... though I did succumb to the ultra-touristy ride down > Haleakala. Real men drive. > > But I am surprised you risked your family's life by hiking and (shudder) > biking around Hawaii. That's crazy. I didn't realize I was dealing with a > lunatic. No wonder you're not very responsive. Heh, cycling here is no picnic either and point taken. Risk in everything and lots in cycling. > > Now Greg, tell me whether you just specifically toured those routes so > > that [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I will never wear shorts with dark socks. Old men wearing shorts and white > socks look cool, especially with a cool hat. Maybe you think you will look cool then but.......<G> > > Have fun, and give other people just a bit of a break and maybe you'd have > > even more. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > alligator or have my drink spiked by a mean Cajun, but it's a risk I'm > willing to take. understood, have fun. ;) I mean it! cheers >> Nope, just naive tourists like you and the rest of the cruisers. When >> you [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Let me know how to do some more impinging... anything other than dark > socks? Crowding the sidewalks really pisses me off. Actually any sort of tourist crowding pisses me off. Stop the damn crowding. If I want to be crowded I'll travel to Asia. > Statistically, thats highly probable. I could go to Columbia for vacation > and have a astronomically high probability of getting out. That said some > places are still just riskier than others. As are some actions, like bicycling. >> Apology accepted. > > knew you'd say that. I could have rejected your apology but I was trying to show you what a nice guy I really am. > heh, we have decidedly different takes on the stay away levels... now I'm > kinda wondering whether say Columbia, Indonesia, have any decent dive ops > you've frequented? Indonesia? Heck yeah, but I haven't made it over there yet. That's for next year. In 2004 I merely braved the terrorism and tsunamis of southern Thailand and drove cross-country (no bicycles for me) and walked around the streets of Quito, Ecuador late at night where the submachinegun-carrying police also have Rottweilers on chains that growl and lunge at you as you pass by. Also a trip to the dangerous jungles of Los Cabos, MX where I actually drove there too, risking bandits and insurgents to dive up at Cabo Pulmo, a 2-hour drive away. I did get lost on the way back, turning the wrong way at the junction town of La Ribera, and when a sinister little school pointed out the way it turned out to be the wrong way. I could have been killed had she been wrapped in high explosives as a booby-trap for unsuspecting tourists like me or lured me into the insurgent's den. Instead I soon realized my mistake, retraced my steps, and soon found the highway back to my treacherous non AI hotel. The scariest moment was when I cracked open a cold beer to mellow me for the long drive back and about halfway down I ingested some chunks. There's nothing scarier than finding chunks in your beer. I immediately rolled down the window and spat them out, but I couldn't get that chunky taste out of my mouth no matter how much beer I drank. > On this one it turns out you're right. I'm always right. > Nah, its relatively safe, certainly safer than mexico Mexico is a big country. There are plenty of places within Mexico that are much safer than Waikiki. > http://www.benbest.com/lifeext/murder.html#world Skewed by border and Mexico City crime. Not a reality in the tourist areas, all-inclusive or not. > Turns out Honolulu is the safest city in America in regards to the stat > I'm [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > is highly consistent with my view on Hawaii feeling like a relatively safe > place Greg. Any rebuttal? Homicide rates are so low anyway as to be statistically nothing to worry about. You're much more likely to be victimized by thieves and Hawaii has one of the highest larceny rates in the U.S. Homicide is very, very, very unlikely even if you're walking around bad areas of Mexico City late at night and you wouldn't be doing that. It's practically non-existent in much of the country. > Greg, given some of this please explain where, how, I was wrong before. Compare crime rates of, say, Ixtapa or Manzanillo, versus crime rates in Honolulu. That's how you were wrong. Generalizing a localized problem to an entire country. > what with all the >> drugs and hookers walking around. You may prefer to expose your family [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Picturesque? The very many prostitutes there are certainly not > picturesque, Very many prostitutes? Where do you hang out in Mexico where you see lots of prostitutes? I've never seen so many streetwalkers in one place as in Waikiki Beach on a Friday night. Mexican prostitutes aren't tramping around the main streets of rural villages, they're segregated into brothels and strip clubs where you hopefully don't take your children. Though apparently they've cleaned up their act a bit: "Prostitutes were once a common sight along Kalakaua and Kuhio avenues until the state Legislature passed a law in 1998 that allowed judges to impose so-called geographic restrictions to keep them out of Waikiki from 6 p.m. to 6 a.m." I don't think I've walked along Kalakaua late at night since 1992. Still, "while prostitution has decreased in Waikiki, Honolulu police say they have investigated triple the number of offenses in neighboring District 1. From January to June, police logged 45 prostitution offenses in Waikiki while handling 137 prostitution offenses in District 1, which primarily covers the area through downtown Honolulu from Liliha to Punahou streets." http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2003/Aug/31/ln/ln05a.html > Plenty I'd bet. but its a risk I'll take.... hiking is clearly my drug of > choice. A landslide or maybe concealed lavatube or whatever can happen in > certain locations but other than that I'm sure footed enough not to take > the > quick elevator down the cliff. Landslides happen all the time. Hawaii is blessed with some sheer dropoffs and the trails skirting them are very eroded. I got freaked out hiking out of the Red Sand Beach in Hana when it started to rain hard. Didn't a whole bunch of tourists get killed just a few years ago when a big rock fell on their heads? "Hikers crushed by boulders at park in Oahu -- HAUULA, Hawaii (AP-Staff) - Rescuers using heat-seeking cameras and military search dogs failed to find any more bodies yesterday in tonnes of debris left by a weekend landslide that killed at least six people and injured dozens of others." http://www.highbeam.com/library/doc0.asp?docid=1P1:21556101&refid=ink_pubnews&sk eyword=&teaser= That was in May of 1999 while I was in Maui on my honeymoon. I can't believe you subject your family to such a dangerous activity. > Heh, cycling here is no picnic either and point taken. Risk in everything > and lots in cycling. There were more tourists killed hiking on the tiny island of Oahu in May of 1999 then were killed that month in the entire country of Mexico. How's about that. I guess timing is everything. > >> Nope, just naive tourists like you and the rest of the cruisers. When > >> you [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > crowding pisses me off. Stop the damn crowding. If I want to be crowded > I'll travel to Asia. Agreed actually. I'm spoiled with places I can go whenever I want for seclusion. Its definitely a Canada perk. That said Banff townsite drives me batty. I can only be in certain places for so many hours then.... > > Statistically, thats highly probable. I could go to Columbia for vacation > > and have a astronomically high probability of getting out. That said some > > places are still just riskier than others. > > As are some actions, like bicycling. Absolutely. I wonder whether we all all make more allowances for risk with activities we each REALLY enjoy. Your love of diving likely makes you consider the quality of dive far before the local politics, stability of the country, risk etc. I've modified some of my biking locales but the risk is still definite. > >> Apology accepted. > > > > knew you'd say that. > > I could have rejected your apology but I was trying to show you what a nice > guy I really am. heh, Try harder ;) > > heh, we have decidedly different takes on the stay away levels... now I'm > > kinda wondering whether say Columbia, Indonesia, have any decent dive ops [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > I soon realized my mistake, retraced my steps, and soon found the highway > back to my treacherous non AI |
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