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Scuba Forum / General / February 2004

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Certified diver

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Rick - 06 Feb 2004 12:17 GMT
I just read a transcript of one of actor Michael T. Weiss's interviews.
In it, he said that he had to take a six week course to become
"certified" in scuba diving as preparation for an upcoming episode of
the TV series "The Pretender".

What exactly does it mean to be "certified" and why did he have to
become certified?  Is it some kind of insurance requirement perhaps?
Does the government require people to be certified before they can use
scuba equipment (just like we need a driver's license before we can
drive)?

Thanks!

Rick
Jim Wyatt - 06 Feb 2004 12:27 GMT

> What exactly does it mean to be "certified" and why did he have to
> become certified?  Is it some kind of insurance requirement perhaps?
> Does the government require people to be certified before they can use
> scuba equipment

Becoming certified is a process whereby you are trained in the safe use
of scuba gear & the procedures for scuba diving safely.

There is no government requirement.

Signature

Jim Wyatt
PADI Master Instructor #4612/IANTD Instructor
Florida Keys Reef-Divers, Inc.
www.reef-divers.com

Grumman-581 - 06 Feb 2004 13:46 GMT
> Becoming certified is a process whereby you are trained in the safe use
> of scuba gear & the procedures for scuba diving safely.
>
> There is no government requirement.

We are for the most part, a self regulated industry... As you might expect,
there are those who argue both ways on this issue... Some want government
certification and others think that you shouldn't mess with something that
has worked for so long without government intervention... Not all countries
allow diving certification to be self regulated from what I have heard
though... If you are diving commercially, there are certain government
requirements and I have to wonder if perhaps an actor diving in a film might
need to meet those requirements, thus the quoted 6 weeks of training for
certification...

Then again, there is the ultimate certification agency "Darwin"... Many of
us who have been around for a long time learned that way... Most of us
survived long enough to learn from our mistakes...
de Valois - 06 Feb 2004 14:34 GMT
Grumman-581 left this mess on Fri, 6 Feb 2004 07:46:57 -0600 for The Way to
clean up:

>Then again, there is the ultimate certification agency "Darwin"... Many of
>us who have been around for a long time learned that way... Most of us
>survived long enough to learn from our mistakes...

Otherwise put, experience is a great teacher...if you survive.

Tao te Carl
"It takes a village to have an idiot." - Carl (c) 2003

(Kudos to Cap'n Jim Wyatt for this link) BEFORE you ask a dumb-a.s question
here...http://www.speakeasy.org/~neilco/bart.gif
Lee Bell - 06 Feb 2004 14:05 GMT
> I just read a transcript of one of actor Michael T. Weiss's interviews.
> In it, he said that he had to take a six week course to become
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> scuba equipment (just like we need a driver's license before we can
> drive)?

Jim Wyatt already responded with part of the answer.  I'll add a bit to his
comments.

There are some fundamental things that you have to know to dive safely.
There's nothing particularly difficult about it, but it's essential stuff,
the kind of things that not knowing may result in no longer living.  The
most obvious thing you need to know is how to put the equipment together,
how to use it underwater and how to deal with some basic problems, a flooded
mask, putting a regulator back in your mouth and clearing it, and sharing
air with a diver when one of you has either run out of air (unforgivable,
but it happens), or has had a malfunction.  The less obvious things are the
effects of breathing air under pressure.  Included in this are the risk of a
gas expansion injury (gas expands as you surface, even when it's in your
lungs) and how to avoid it and how to deal with the issue of excess nitrogen
that is absorbed by your body during a dive.  Diving without knowing both
the obvious and the less obvious risks and risk control methods can get
seriously dead, seriously quickly.

The certification process includes classroom study, confined water practice,
usually in a pool, and open water diving, to demonstrate competence and get
a little experience actually doing what you learned about.

There's no government requirement for certification in the United States.
There is in some other countries.  Here, regulation is done by the industry
itself.  Most dive shops will not sell scuba equipment, will not service
scuba equipment and will not fill scuba tanks for somebody that is not
certified, i.e. does not have a card attesting to at least basic knowledge
about scuba diving.  You could find a way around industry standards, but
probably would be unwise to do so.

Lee
Robert \ - 06 Feb 2004 14:22 GMT
> > I just read a transcript of one of actor Michael T. Weiss's interviews.
> > In it, he said that he had to take a six week course to become
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> Jim Wyatt already responded with part of the answer.  I'll add a bit to his
> comments.

  <big snip>

It should also be noted that the reference to a "six week course" is a bit
misleading.

Possibly Hollywood actors might need 8 hours a day for 6 weeks, but most of
us can muddle through it after a few classroom sessions, some visits to the
pool, then off to the open water for some additional exercises.

The span of time required is fairly standard amongst the different agencies,
but with "pre-study" of the written materials, you can move things along
quite rapidly.

Then... the learning begins.

Doc
de Valois - 06 Feb 2004 14:37 GMT
Robert \"Doc\" Adelman, C.I.D. left this mess on Fri, 06 Feb 2004 14:22:38 GMT
for The Way to clean up:

>> > I just read a transcript of one of actor Michael T. Weiss's interviews.
>> > In it, he said that he had to take a six week course to become
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
>Then... the learning begins.

I dunno, Doc. My PADI BOW was ten hours of classroom which broke down to two
one-hour sessions each week, plus pool work, then the four open water dives done
in week six...and this would leave an actor plenty of time to rehearse and shoot
other episodes in ten or twelve hour days over the course of those weeks.

Tao te Carl
"It takes a village to have an idiot." - Carl (c) 2003

(Kudos to Cap'n Jim Wyatt for this link) BEFORE you ask a dumb-a.s question
here...http://www.speakeasy.org/~neilco/bart.gif
H. Huntzinger - 09 Feb 2004 12:40 GMT
> >It should also be noted that the reference to a "six week course" is a bit
> >misleading.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> of time to rehearse and shoot other episodes in ten or twelve hour
> days over the course of those weeks.

There's also the ~3 day "Weekend Wonder" classes that we complain about
as a bad learning environment.

I believe that most reasonable dive instruction today still will require
around 40 hours of training (classroom & pool).

And generally, the longer this training is spread out over, the better
off the student will ultimately be in terms of actually learning the
material (vs memorization) and retaining various principles and
procedures in long-term memory (appropriately spaced repetition cycles).

In the USA, while there are differences in training standards for
Commercial vs. Recreational applications, I would be inclined to suspect
that Hollywood only worries about their actors getting the standard
"Rec" Certifications.  You could check the history of Jackie Bissette
and the rest of the cast from "The Deep" to see if this is the case or
not.

-hh
Robert \ - 09 Feb 2004 18:49 GMT
" H. Huntzinger bubbled:

>You could check the history of Jackie Bissette
> and the rest of the cast from "The Deep" to see if this is the case or
> not.

That's a couple of good points.  (@)(@)

Doc   .
Grumman-581 - 06 Feb 2004 14:26 GMT
> Most dive shops will not sell scuba equipment, will not service
> scuba equipment and will not fill scuba tanks for somebody that is not
> certified, i.e. does not have a card attesting to at least basic knowledge
> about scuba diving.

That hasn't been my experience, Lee... It seems that the shops will gladly
sell you equipment even if you don't have a card, but will only fill your
tanks if you have a card... Of course, it hasn't always been that way since
I probably went 20 years without a card and still was able to get air
fills...
Jon C - 07 Feb 2004 00:09 GMT
Just to add to the other great comments, there are a number of certifying
"agencies" throughout the world.

The four most common (pretty much in order) in the US are PADI (Professional
Association of Diving Instructors), NAUI (National Association of Underwater
Instructors), SSI (SCUBA Schools International), and the YMCA.

These are companies who have sets of standards regarding instruction and
certification.  An instructor gets certified as an instructor for one or
more of the agencies, and teaches classes for that agency, usually through
local dive shops.

Students sign up for the classes, complete the required cirricula, and get
sent certification cards in the mail from their respective agency.  I was
certified through SSI, whereas a few of my buddies were certified by NAUI or
PADI.  The class contents and requirements are virtually identical... there
is occasionally quite a debate over which agency is better, but a "C card"
from any agency will allow you the exact same stuff - air fills and dive
boat entrance the world over.

Classes are of varying lengths... mine was 6 6-hour sessions, one every
Sunday for 1.5 months.  Each was 3 hours classroom and 3 hours pool,
followed by two days of diving at a local lake with the instructor.

As Lee Bell said, it's not at all difficult, but there are some fairly
simple things you absolutely need to know.

Jon

> I just read a transcript of one of actor Michael T. Weiss's interviews.
> In it, he said that he had to take a six week course to become
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Rick
abracadabra - 07 Feb 2004 00:23 GMT
> I just read a transcript of one of actor Michael T. Weiss's interviews.
> In it, he said that he had to take a six week course to become
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> scuba equipment (just like we need a driver's license before we can
> drive)?

I;m a newbie myself, taking a scuba class at UNC (f.cking Duke...)
Just from what I've learned in the first few weeks, I can tell you I am
really glad I'm learning diving from a diver who's been doing it for years.
Scuba isn't as easy as it looks, and if you don't know what you're doing,
you're gonna waste a lot of time "learning from experience", presuming you
live of course.
Aside from that, it's fun learning diving in a pool full of nice looking
college girls in bathing suits.
Charles Fort - 07 Feb 2004 03:31 GMT
>I just read a transcript of one of actor Michael T. Weiss's interviews.
>In it, he said that he had to take a six week course to become
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
>Rick

Some jurisdictions view actors and stage hands in SCUBA gear as light
weight commercial divers and their labour laws will require these
people to be trained and certified as such rather than as sports
divers. An Occupational SCUBA certificate in British Columbia is a
four to six week course and includes the 70 hours of bottom time a
trainee needs to meet the standards for certification.

Other provinces in Canada either have similar requirements or are
moving towards adopting them. Wouldn't surprise me if the American
OSHA and the British and Australian equivalents don't also have
something to say about diving standards on movie sets as well.

And yes, movie sets do get visits from local health and safety
inspectors. A acquaintance of mine almost got a set shut down when the
inspector asked to see his diving credentials and found he didn't have
his medical clearance with him.

Most governments in North America still don't care if a citizen goes
out and buys all the gear, a compressor, and goes out sport diving on
his own time without training or certification, beyond wishing they
could present his widow with a bill for the body recovery.

Sport diving certification started as an attempt by the sport industry
to regulate itself before the government did it for them, and has
expanded to limit the effectiveness of lawsuits against the industry.
It just means that a dive shop won't sell you air or life support
equipment like tanks or regulators UNLESS you can produce a card
showing you've been trained to use it. ALRIGHT YOU GUYS, QUIT
LAUGHING!
 
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