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Scuba Forum / General / February 2004Here is a copy of the lawsuit by Carmicahel
http://jonnythan.com/SDOC0049.pdf When you get a chance, send the name of the defendant corporation. Was the assignment recorded? Lee > When you get a chance, send the name of the defendant corporation. Carleigh Rae Corp. > Was the assignment recorded? Yes, it is available on the PTO site. As I understand it, he is suing DiveRite, Zeagle, Abyss, Custom Buoyancy, OxyCheq, US Divers, etc, and several others all of whom he served at DEMA, which was really chickenshit, but that's his style. The funny part about him suing OxyCheq is because Patrick sells my weighted single tank adaptor, which I began making in '97, and for which I have receipts, drawings and other proof of prior art. I sold JJ the rights to market my STA for a couple Pioneer rigs when I was still working for peanuts at Brownies, so how he can claim to own that design or invention is anyone's guess. I was making those when he was still selling that aluminum chunk of sh.t they used to make and market. He asked Patrick for a bunch of O2 sensors and for Patrick to stop making and selling wings, which have less than nothing to do with any patent he claims (Patrick sent him along with nothing). He is just pissed because we are building a better BP/ wing system for less, and he is losing sales and dealers over it. He was whining about Patrick and I copying his wings, which is another joke. There is nothing similar about them (well they both hold air), including and especially construction or how they dive. I guess if we copied his wings, then he copied DiveRite and SeaTec's. He wanted to settle out of court with everyone, most of whom told him to pound sand. Abyss did roll over for him (we wouldn't expect any less from that bunch). The rest are going to bury him. He is claiming that his patent covers all "trim weights" and all removable weight pockets, past, present and future. Basically, anything but a weight belt. It is nothing more or less than a greed based attempt to control and dominate the competition that he cant handle on a level field. He assigned the patents to Carleigh Rae corp., as this corporation has no assets, so any counter suit will get nothing, he thinks. There are several attorneys working on piercing the corporate veil as we speak. Corporate veil or not, he isn't fooling anyone. This is about *making* people buy Halcyon gear, and putting the competition at his mercy. He wants his legal fee's covered, and a dollar a pocket from all manufacturers who sell non-removable trim weights or removable weight pockets. I guess he never saw an AtPac or anyone put a disk of lead under the tank boot on their AL80 before, or anyone put weights on their cam bands. It is my sincere hope that the industry as whole runs this back up his scrawny a.s with a candle on top of it, and further that the divers he seeks to control and to whom he wishes to sell his gear see him for what he really is; greedy and desperate to dominate the market through whatever means he can, except simple, fair honest, open competition. Scott > > When you get a chance, send the name of the defendant corporation. > [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > > Scott Scott - would you happen to have a copy of the patents cited in the lawsuit? They were attached to the original complaint, but not in the PDF. Thanks, Alan > Scott - would you happen to have a copy of the patents cited in the > lawsuit? They were attached to the original complaint, but not in the > PDF. They are all available on the PTO website: http://www.uspto.gov/ > The funny part about him suing OxyCheq is because Patrick sells my > weighted single tank adaptor, which I began making in '97, > and for which I have receipts, drawings and other proof of prior art. > I sold JJ the rights to market my STA for a couple > Pioneer rigs when I was still working for peanuts at Brownies, so how > he can claim to own that design or invention is anyone's > guess. I was making those when he was still selling that aluminum > chunk of sh.t they used to make and market. It will be interesting indeed. There are quite a few people that know the chronology of the weighted STA. I don't know patent law, but I can't help but wonder about a patent on an item that you were already making. I suspect I know the answer already, but did you patent your invention? > He asked Patrick for a bunch of O2 sensors and for Patrick to stop making and selling wings, which have less than nothing to do with > any patent he claims (Patrick sent him along with nothing). He is just pissed because we are building a better BP/ wing system for less, > and he is losing sales and dealers over it. He was whining about Patrick and I copying his wings, which is another joke. There is > nothing similar about them (well they both hold air), including and especially construction or how they dive. I guess if we copied his wings, then he > copied DiveRite and SeaTec's. He, and some of his buddies, have a long history of using litigation and lawyers as weapons, even when there is clearly no merit to the case. Most people have backed down rather than fight the good fight. I hope some, or all, of the parties to this action take a stand. I also hope they have good attorneys. I suspect JJ will. > He wanted to settle out of court with everyone, most of whom told him to pound sand. Abyss did roll over for him (we wouldn't expect > any less from that bunch). The rest are going to bury him. He is claiming that his patent covers all "trim weights" and all removable weight pockets, past, present > and future. Basically, anything but a weight belt. > It is nothing more or less than a greed based attempt to control and dominate the competition that he cant handle on a level field. > He assigned the patents to Carleigh Rae corp., as this corporation has no assets, so any counter suit will get nothing, he thinks. There > are several attorneys working on piercing the corporate veil as we speak. Corporate veil or not, he isn't fooling anyone. This is about > *making* people buy Halcyon gear, and putting the competition at his mercy. > He wants his legal fee's covered, and a dollar a pocket from all manufacturers who sell non-removable trim weights or removable weight > pockets. I guess he never saw an AtPac or anyone put a disk of lead under the tank boot on their AL80 before, or anyone put weights on their cam > bands. > It is my sincere hope that the industry as whole runs this back up his scrawny a.s with a candle on top of it, and further that the divers > he seeks to control and to whom he wishes to sell his gear see him for what he really is; greedy and desperate to dominate the market > through whatever means he can, except simple, fair honest, open competition. Time will tell. I know I'm not real happy about the suit, but then again, I'm not likely to be his customer any time in the near future anyway. I already have more gear than I need. Lee > Scott <el-snippo> > Time will tell. I know I'm not real happy about the suit, but then again, > I'm not likely to be his customer any time in the near future anyway. I > already have more gear than I need. People have been doing for themselves as well or better before and after Bob came along, but usually not during. It has no legs, and even if it did, the result would not be positive for anyone. For your perusal: http://levine.sscnet.ucla.edu/papers/ip.ch1.pdf #Scott wrote: # #> The funny part about him suing OxyCheq is because Patrick sells my #> weighted single tank adaptor, which I began making in '97, #> and for which I have receipts, drawings and other proof of prior art. # #> I sold JJ the rights to market my STA for a couple #> Pioneer rigs when I was still working for peanuts at Brownies, so how #> he can claim to own that design or invention is anyone's #> guess. I was making those when he was still selling that aluminum #> chunk of sh.t they used to make and market. # #It will be interesting indeed. There are quite a few people that know the #chronology of the weighted STA. I don't know patent law, but I can't help #but wonder about a patent on an item that you were already making. I #suspect I know the answer already, but did you patent your invention? # It doesn't matter if Scott patented his weighted STA. If it was out in the marketplace for more than a year before the Carmichael patents were filed, then those portions of the patents that claim this invention can be found invalid. His patents have a number of claims and methods, and invalidating one claim may or may not effect other claims (although it almost certainly won't affect all of them). It depends on how the claims are written (obviously I haven't read them in depth and haven't looked at the figures yet) and if the weighted STA is an independant or dependant claim. If it's an independant claim, then any other claims that are dependant on the STA would also be found invalid. Where Scott can help in the defense of this lawsuit is to provide defendants with documentation that his weighted STA was out in the marketplace sometime prior to 1998 (the earliest patent was filed January 5, 1999). If he has a copy of a bill of sale dated 1997, or a photograph from that same time showing an STA in use, that's clear evidence that the product was in the marketplace for more than a year before the patent was filed. Documented evidence of prior art that would invalidate other claims would also be helpful. Alan > It doesn't matter if Scott patented his weighted STA. If it was out in > the marketplace for more than a year before the Carmichael patents were > filed, then those portions of the patents that claim this invention can > be found invalid. I'll defer to your greater knowledge to an extent, but that does not mean that it does not matter. If Scott patented his weighted STA or any of the other items I believe he invented, then there's an opportunity that he may find quite attrative, the opportunity to turn things around and give somebody a taste of their own medicine. > Where Scott can help in the defense of this lawsuit is to provide > defendants with documentation that his weighted STA was out in the > marketplace sometime prior to 1998 (the earliest patent was filed > January 5, 1999). The archives of rec.scuba may help as well. I would not be surprised if there's mention of the weighted STA in them and most of the people who would have participated in such a discussion are still around. Lee > > It doesn't matter if Scott patented his weighted STA. If it was out in > > the marketplace for more than a year before the Carmichael patents were [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > find quite attrative, the opportunity to turn things around and give > somebody a taste of their own medicine. Excellent point. I was thinking about it in terms of defending the patent, not in terms of them infringing someone else's patent. > > Where Scott can help in the defense of this lawsuit is to provide > > defendants with documentation that his weighted STA was out in the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > there's mention of the weighted STA in them and most of the people who would > have participated in such a discussion are still around. Also an excellent point. I wonder if Google archives have been used as evidence in any recent cases. > Lee > It doesn't matter if Scott patented his weighted STA. If it was out in > the marketplace for more than a year before the Carmichael patents were [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > before the patent was filed. Documented evidence of prior art that > would invalidate other claims would also be helpful. I have provided it all the to attorneys working for The Force. CAD drawing files created and dated in '97, receipts for production of the rails, receipts for lead, links to discussions right here about the STA. This lawsuit has more smoking holes in it than an Iraqi outhouse. Scott > I guess he never saw an AtPac or anyone put a disk of lead under the tank > boot on their AL80 before, or anyone put weights on their cam bands. Hell, that's all modern stuff. Wait til the judge sees how they were doing it back in the nineteenth century. > It is my sincere hope that the industry as whole runs this back up his > scrawny a.s with a candle on top of it, and further that the divers > he seeks to control and to whom he wishes to sell his gear see him for what > he really is; greedy and desperate to dominate the market > through whatever means he can, except simple, fair honest, open competition. The saddest part is that the defendants have to spend time and money responding to this BS, and the expense will have to be added to the cost of our gear. > The saddest part is that the defendants have to spend time and money > responding to this BS, That is often the objective of lawsuits like this - to distract the competition's talent and to make them spend money on something other than operations, development and marketing. > > The saddest part is that the defendants have to spend time and money > > responding to this BS, > > That is often the objective of lawsuits like this - to distract the > competition's talent and to make them spend money on something other > than operations, development and marketing. Wont work, we are going forward at high speed, and the least of our worries is Big Bob. > mikegrayCID@worldnut.nut says... > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > competition's talent and to make them spend money on something other > than operations, development and marketing. IIRC, this is sometimes known as a "SLAP" (maybe SLAPP?) lawsuit, and I believe that they are now explicitly illegal in California. Greg? -hh > > mikegrayCID@worldnut.nut says... > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Greg? Greg's away for a few days. "chilly" <slarson@shaw.canada> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :Greg's away for a few days. Hope it's less than two weeks. Dan Bracuk If at first you don't succeed, you run the risk of failure. The Best of rec.scuba http://www.pathcom.com/~bracuk/RecScuba/ > "chilly" <slarson@shaw.canada> pounded away at his keyboard resulting > in: > :Greg's away for a few days. > > Hope it's less than two weeks. Why ?? > "chilly" <slarson@shaw.canada> pounded away at his keyboard resulting > in: > :Greg's away for a few days. > > Hope it's less than two weeks. Why ?? > "chilly" <slarson@shaw.canada> pounded away at his keyboard resulting > in: > :Greg's away for a few days. > > Hope it's less than two weeks. :^) It is. In article <{NOSPAM-rm_to_reply}rec-scuba-24AA54.08055713022004@news-east.ash.gigan ews.com>, H. Huntzinger <{NOSPAM-rm_to_reply}rec-scuba@huntzinger.com> wrote: > > mikegrayCID@worldnut.nut says... > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > -hh Look at PADI vs. Diverlink for an example. > The saddest part is that the defendants have to spend time and money > responding to this BS, and the expense will have to be added to the cost > of our gear. Bingo. Economic terrorism. (SNIP)> The funny part about him suing OxyCheq is because Patrick sells my weighted > single tank adaptor, . Did they say this was the reason? (not arguing - curious) > He asked Patrick for a bunch of O2 sensors and for Patrick to stop making > and selling wings, which have less than nothing to do with > any patent he claims His patent claim might include a wing designed to concentrate the air up by the neck. Not saying it is a valid claim.. . > He is claiming that his patent covers all "trim weights" and all removable > weight pockets, past, present and future. Basically, anything but > a weight belt. His co-patentee has patents going back to 1986 - i know not what for- and he is claiming extensions for them. I think he only claims for weights attache to a tank by a pocket - but i may br wrong. he hasn't confined his claims to BCs by the way. His is a system for all life jackets. or removable weight > pockets. When did Seaquest first start with theses? Damned sure they would have patented whatever they could have gotten away with. (SNIP)> >(SNIP)> > >The funny part about him suing OxyCheq is because Patrick sells my weighted >> single tank adaptor, . > >Did they say this was the reason? (not arguing - curious) The real problem IMO, is this from Scotts website: "The design will help an unconscious diver floating at the surface roll over onto the back, helping to keep the airway clear of the water." ...whether or not carmichaels patent claims are valid, that text, together with non-ditchable characteristic puts it squarely in the sights. I don't know if Oxycheq ever repeated the claim, the website doesn't right now. FYI - Scott worked for Carmichael, and whether or not it's true, Carmichael will claim that Scott learned this from him, and I think most people will conclude that is true, considering the chronology. The choice of vernacular is damning in that regard. safe diving, bullshark > FYI - Scott worked for Carmichael, and whether or not it's true, Carmichael > will claim that Scott learned this from him, and I think most people will conclude > that is true, considering the chronology. The choice of vernacular is damning > in that regard. I was buying these adaptors from Scott long before he went to work for Carmichael. I remember this vividly because the LDS had customers who wanted them while Scott was in FL, and we had no source. Long before that, I was shown by my first dive buddies how to trim out an aluminum 80 with a cam band and a weight. I suspect that people have been doing this at least since the introduction of the aluminum tank, and probably earlier. A lot of cavern instructors have their students use a weight like this with an aluminum tank. Mine did in '95. al >> FYI - Scott worked for Carmichael, and whether or not it's true, Carmichael >> will claim that Scott learned this from him, and I think most people will conclude [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >I was buying these adaptors from Scott long before he went to work for >Carmichael. I have no doubt of that. The claim of airway preservation for an unconscious diver is the problem, as I see it. Without it there would be nothing to relate the product to the patent. Gosh. Here's a channel. I filled it with lead. No infringement. safe diving, bullshark > >I was buying these adaptors from Scott long before he went to work for > >Carmichael. > I have no doubt of that. The claim of airway preservation for an > unconscious diver is the problem, as I see it. Without it there > would be nothing to relate the product to the patent. Then he should be suing me. Which would be hard to rationalize since Halcyon bought and sells my design. He already knows what he will get by suing me, and money aint it. > FYI - Scott worked for Carmichael, and whether or not it's true, > Carmichael will claim that Scott learned this from him, and I think most people > will conclude that is true, considering the chronology. The choice > of vernacular is damning in that regard. If he does, he'll run right smack into his own customers, or at least one of his customers that knows very well that Scott created the weighted single tank adapter before he went to work for Brownies. I don't know when Scott first produced them, but I do know it predated his move to S. Florida. Lee > The real problem IMO, is this from Scotts website: > > "The design will help an unconscious diver floating at the surface roll over onto the back, helping to keep the airway > clear of the water." Developed completely independantly of him or anything within his influence, except of course that the aluminum chunk of sh.t he used to sell with his Pioneers rigs was a real stinker. Also, one of their main instructors, Andrew G, used to just short of throw a fit over my STA's, claimed they were dangerous, caused unbalance, and made the tank too farr from the back to reach the valves. The whole thing is bullshit. > ...whether or not carmichaels patent claims are valid, that text, together > with non-ditchable characteristic puts it squarely in the sights. So why isnt he suing me, and why did they pay me for the rights to market my STA design? Because it is prior art, and they were on the market, publicly, for more than a year before his patent. > I don't know if Oxycheq ever repeated the claim, the website doesn't right now. > FYI - Scott worked for Carmichael, and whether or not it's true, Carmichael > will claim that Scott learned this from him, and I think most people will conclude > that is true, considering the chronology. The choice of vernacular is damning > in that regard. I was making, diving and selling them long before I went to work for Big Bob. As a matter of fact, the hideous Halcyon aluminum STA, and its horrid trim characteristics, was the impetus for the design. I wonder if they will come after me now for 1/4" stainless backplates? Certainly non-ditchable weight, and greatly improve trim for cold water divers. The guy is a punk; he only served and sued those he could inexpensively ding at DEMA. As an aside, I have spent the last couple of days working with a diver that was on the Wakulla projects with Stone. The attacks they endured from that whole bunch are un-real. Death threats, body bags sent in the mail, cutting of com lines down to divers doing deco at 200 feet, all kinds of punk sh.t that I wont post here. The more I meet other divers, and especially competitors, the more I regret ever having had anything to do with the entire bunch. >Developed completely independantly of him or anything within his influence, This claim is the essence I think, it doesn't matter if you did it independently. "The design will help an unconscious diver floating at the surface roll over onto the back, helping to keep the airway clear of the water." >The whole thing is bullshit. I agree. The patents are crap. I'm not a lawyer, but I've spent a good deal of time reading and fighting patent claims as an expert in IP cases. Problem is, IP lawyers are expensive, and so are the people they hire. In your case it would not be for gain. What you may not realize is that Carmichael *has* to do this, or the patents die. >So why isnt he suing me, and why did they pay me for the rights to market my >STA design? Because you're a Turnip? >Because it is prior art, No its not. You made a weighted STA, not a keel weight for airway mediation. >and they were on the market, publicly, for more than a year before his patent. 'market' and 'public' have definitions. Newsgroups don't meet them, while an invoice for advertising space in a national publication would exceed them. >I was making, diving and selling them long before I went to work for Big >Bob. Just to be clear Scott, I'm not taking sides, I was just reading the patents and trying to figure what Carmichael was complaining about. The complaint was pretty crappy. I'm surprised the court accepted it. In my experience, the plaintiff is required to spell out his wound, where it is, and how you put it there. I believe that the claim you made is the problem. That doesn't say that I believe in the claim/patents/complaint. >The guy is a punk; he only served and sued those he could inexpensively ding >at DEMA. Part of his problem as the patent holder is that he has to defend the patents or they become useless. Personally I think the patents are crap. They are vague and duplicitous. In trying to reach every possible embodiment of everything, everywhere, they failed to describe even one. The Summary of Invention is a vague, inaccurate treatise on diving, dive injuries and life rafts. I think they just bored the examiner to death. One idea would be for Oxy, and all the other defendants served at DEMA to share the cost of one good IP lawyer, and just destroy the patent(s) in one swoop, then return the favor with damage claims afterwards, perhaps the next DEMA show. >As an aside, I have spent the last couple of days working with a diver that >was on the Wakulla projects with Stone. > >The attacks they endured from that whole bunch are un-real. As I've said before, when I read the Circus post in the aquanaut archives, I learned everything I need to know about the (now defunct) WKPP. safe diving, bullshark > As I've said before, when I read the Circus post in the aquanaut archives, > I learned everything I need to know about the (now defunct) WKPP. Hi Bullshark, why defunct ? Michael >> As I've said before, when I read the Circus post in the aquanaut archives, >> I learned everything I need to know about the (now defunct) WKPP. >Hi Bullshark, As I understand it, the last "P" stands for "Project" and designated it's status as an officially commissioned/sponsored exploration of the NSS (or was it NACD?). At any rate, they have since lost their status as an official project of the original commissioning body (or so I'm told). It was all in the details of a long thread here where Bill Gavin and Lamar English "set the record straight" (told their side of the story) about a couple of cave deaths. Actually, their accounts were posted elsewhere and then re-posted here. http://thedecostop.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2962 To my knowledge, nobody disputed the loss of sanction. It is not on the NACD or NSS websites anymore, so I presume it to be true. So, IMO (as well as Bill Gavin), the organizational name that conferred that status is not appropriate unless it conveys their loss of "Project" status. Hence (defunct) WKPP, or, deprecated WKPP, WKPNotP, maybe? ABOGDIAHFNR...might be the best acronym. safe diving, bullshark >>> As I've said before, when I read the Circus post in the aquanaut archives, >>> I learned everything I need to know about the (now defunct) WKPP. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > >bullshark I have a question. I had thought I read something about the State of Florida purchasing the karst sometime last year. If this did in fact happen, what part, if any, did that play in the demise of the project? Rick Simms ******************************************** "Isn't it interesting that the same people who laugh at science fiction listen to weather forecasts and economists?" > So, IMO (as well as Bill Gavin), the organizational name that conferred > that status is not appropriate unless it conveys their loss of "Project" >> status. Hence (defunct) WKPP, or, deprecated WKPP, WKPNotP, maybe? How about WKPP-L or maybe even WKPP - s, as in stroke? 8^) Lee > As I understand it, the last "P" stands for "Project" and > designated it's status as an officially commissioned/sponsored > exploration of the NSS (or was it NACD?). At any rate, they have since lost > their status as an official project of the original commissioning > body (or so I'm told). It was all in the details of a long thread > here where Bill Gavin and Lamar English "set the record straight" (told their > side of the story) about a couple of cave deaths. As of right now, Woodville Karst Plains Project, Inc. is an active Florida corporation and has been since 2/20/2002. The last annual report was filed in August of 2003 and shows George Irvine as Chariman, President and Director. We'll see what happens next August. Lee >>> As I've said before, when I read the Circus post in the aquanaut archives, >>> I learned everything I need to know about the (now defunct) WKPP. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > >bullshark I was able to find the link to the story that I had read. Nothing from the story indicates my assumption to be accuate. http://makeashorterlink.com/?F5FD42757 Rick Simms ******************************************** "Isn't it interesting that the same people who laugh at science fiction listen to weather forecasts and economists?" > As I understand it, the last "P" stands for "Project" and > designated it's status as an officially commissioned/sponsored exploration > of the NSS (or was it NACD?). OK, i thought you were speaking about diving ! Michael > As I've said before, when I read the Circus post in the aquanaut > archives, I learned everything I need to know about the (now defunct) WKPP. It's really dead or is it simply without it's head? Lee >> As I've said before, when I read the Circus post in the aquanaut >> archives, I learned everything I need to know about the (now defunct) >WKPP. > >It's really dead or is it simply without it's head? According to Bill Gavin, it's been dead along time. From: http://thedecostop.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2962 REPLY FROM GAVIN <SnipAndQuote> For that matter, let me say that in my opinion WKPP no longer exists. Some people may be using the name, but the true project died long ago. The last word of WKPP is Project. We were a sanctioned project of the National Speleological Society. Parker worked extremely hard to get us that recognition. That ended when George chose to start flaming everyone that didn't agree with him via e-mail, using the foulest, most immature language possible. When word got back to the folks at NSS (our competitors were all too happy to copy and display these e-mails) they cancelled our project status. Sponsors like DUI stopped talking to us. No one wanted to be associated with WKPP anymore. Eventually, I didnt either. Parker Turner created the Woodville Karst Plain Project. George destroyed it. Whatever is left is a sad joke. </SnipAndQuote> safe diving, bullshark > (SNIP)> > > The funny part about him suing OxyCheq is because Patrick sells my weighted > > single tank adaptor, . > > Did they say this was the reason? (not arguing - curious) Yes. Scott schrieb: > http://jonnythan.com/SDOC0049.pdf Scott, could you please type down in a posting the No. of the patents covered ? Then it is easier for everyone to drag and drop the No. in the the search box of the U.S. patent office. Text marking doesn't work with the pdf link you gave. Matthias #Scott schrieb: #> #> http://jonnythan.com/SDOC0049.pdf # #Scott, #could you please type down in a posting the No. of the patents covered ? # 5,855,454 6,530,725 6,558,082 http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u= /netahtml/search-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ptxt&s1=5,855,454.WKU. &OS=PN/5,855,454&RS=PN/5,855,454 http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u= /netahtml/search-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ptxt&s1=6,530,725.WKU. &OS=PN/6,530,725&RS=PN/6,530,725 http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u= /netahtml/search-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ptxt&s1=6,558,082.WKU. &OS=PN/6,558,082&RS=PN/6,558,082 Hey look, I'm on the internet! That's my server ;) Jon > http://jonnythan.com/SDOC0049.pdf |
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