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Scuba Forum / General / March 2004

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Divers Missing - Any Information

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Lee Bell - 21 Jan 2004 12:52 GMT
I got this from another forum.  Friends of a friend are involved and are
seeking information.  If you have more than what appears in the link, please
let me know.

Thanks, Lee

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/0104/11missing.html
Lou Vallone - 21 Jan 2004 15:40 GMT
> I got this from another forum.  Friends of a friend are involved and are
> seeking information.  If you have more than what appears in the link, please
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/0104/11missing.html

When I arrived at Capt. Don's the night of Jan. 5 that was the hot topic of
discussion. The two divers had gone missing, a search had been mounted most
of the next day, and nothing had been found.

By the time I left on Jan. 15 nothing had been found and no new information
had surfaced (sic) other than what had been speculated on in the article.

While I was there, I took the SDI Solo Diver Course from Walt Stark of Rec
Tek Scuba. I guess the most important thing I learned was to "file a flight
plan" when going on a dive.

Apropos of the incident, they did not mount a search for the two lost divers
until they had been gone for more than 24 hours because the father and son
had not told anyone where they were going.

Signature

But then again, what do I know?

Lou Vallone

LouVallone@aol.com

http://members.aol.com/LouVallone

Forest Aten - 21 Jan 2004 17:01 GMT
24 hours???? No missing persons report filed???
My wife would be calling in the marines if I didn't show up for dinner (and
with the proper dress, no less)....

F. Aten

> > I got this from another forum.  Friends of a friend are involved and are
> > seeking information.  If you have more than what appears in the link,
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> until they had been gone for more than 24 hours because the father and son
> had not told anyone where they were going.
Dazed and Confuzed - 21 Jan 2004 17:23 GMT
> 24 hours???? No missing persons report filed???
> My wife would be calling in the marines if I didn't show up for dinner (and
> with the proper dress, no less)....
>
> F. Aten

You wear a dress?
--

A friend is someone who knows you, understands the essential conflicts in your
thinking, in your morals, and in your philosophy, and likes you anyway.
Forest Aten - 21 Jan 2004 17:51 GMT
hahahaha

3. intransitive verb put on appropriate clothes: to put on clothes
appropriate to a particular occasion, especially formal clothes
We need to dress for the theater. (or....a good seafood restaurant)

A figure of speech Dazed.....just for fun.

> > 24 hours???? No missing persons report filed???
> > My wife would be calling in the marines if I didn't show up for dinner (and
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> A friend is someone who knows you, understands the essential conflicts in your
> thinking, in your morals, and in your philosophy, and likes you anyway.
Lee Bell - 21 Jan 2004 23:31 GMT
> hahahaha
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> A figure of speech Dazed.....just for fun.

hahahaha

You used it as a noun, not a verb. . . . just for fun.

Lee
Forest Aten - 22 Jan 2004 00:41 GMT
Of course....thanks.

> > hahahaha
> >
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Lee
Lee Bell - 22 Jan 2004 12:04 GMT
> Of course....thanks.

Just don't forget the "just for fun."  8^)

Lee

>>> hahahaha
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>>
>> Lee
Forest Aten - 22 Jan 2004 13:03 GMT
I didn't miss that part....

Thanks

> > Of course....thanks.
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> >>
> >> Lee
Forest Aten - 22 Jan 2004 00:48 GMT
> > hahahaha
> >
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Lee

Sorry Lee....

noun

4. clothing required for particular occasion: the clothing required for a
particular occasion
rnf2 - 22 Jan 2004 03:40 GMT
> > > hahahaha
> > >
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> 4. clothing required for particular occasion: the clothing required for a
> particular occasion

like "Battle Dress" and "Parade Dress" in the military... is someone saying
Popeye wore dresses in the marines?

rhys
Lee Bell - 22 Jan 2004 12:06 GMT
> like "Battle Dress" and "Parade Dress" in the military... is someone
saying Popeye wore dresses in the marines?

Don't go there.
Lee Bell - 22 Jan 2004 12:05 GMT
>>> hahahaha
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> 4. clothing required for particular occasion: the clothing required
> for a particular occasion

Sorry for what, giving me a smile?  Giving me a chance for a cheap shot?
Just for fun.

Lee
Laser - 21 Jan 2004 23:31 GMT
>> I got this from another forum.  Friends of a friend are involved and are
>> seeking information.  If you have more than what appears in the link,
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>until they had been gone for more than 24 hours because the father and son
>had not told anyone where they were going.

For a missing person that seems reasonable, but for a diver with a
limited gas supply, the 24 hr thing seems foolish.

Laser
Lee Bell - 22 Jan 2004 12:04 GMT
LouVallone@bigfoot.com> wrote:

> When I arrived at Capt. Don's the night of Jan. 5 that was the hot
> topic of discussion. The two divers had gone missing, a search had
> been mounted most of the next day, and nothing had been found.

> By the time I left on Jan. 15 nothing had been found and no new
> information had surfaced (sic) other than what had been speculated
> on in the article.

> While I was there, I took the SDI Solo Diver Course from Walt Stark
> of Rec Tek Scuba. I guess the most important thing I learned was to
> "file a flight plan" when going on a dive.

> Apropos of the incident, they did not mount a search for the two
> lost divers until they had been gone for more than 24 hours because
> the father and son had not told anyone where they were going.

Thanks Lou
Dennis \(Icarus\) - 22 Jan 2004 13:36 GMT
> >> I got this from another forum.  Friends of a friend are involved and are
> >> seeking information.  If you have more than what appears in the link,
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> For a missing person that seems reasonable, but for a diver with a
> limited gas supply, the 24 hr thing seems foolish.

I think it was because no one knew they were missing, since father & son
hand told anyone they were going diving.

Dennis

> Laser
Forest Aten - 22 Jan 2004 14:52 GMT
> I think it was because no one knew they were missing, since father & son
> hand told anyone they were going diving.
>
> Dennis

Dennis,

Weren't they on vacation with family? Just seems weird to me that when two
family members don't show up at bedtime that no one is concerned enough to
call local authorities???

Forest Aten
Dennis \(Icarus\) - 22 Jan 2004 18:34 GMT
> > I think it was because no one knew they were missing, since father & son
> > hand told anyone they were going diving.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> family members don't show up at bedtime that no one is concerned enough to
> call local authorities???

Just going by what was posted earlier. Just looked, and the article does
state that they were reported missing to the hotel by 11 p.m.(bedtime?)

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/0104/11missing.html
Newspaper reports from Bonaire said the two men left their hotel about 8
a.m. on Jan. 2 to go diving, while Ennis' two other children -- 14-year-old
Currie and 16-year-old Bridget -- stayed behind. When the divers had not
returned by 11 p.m., the teenagers reported them missing to the hotel.
Ennis' rented truck was found later at Karpata, a popular diving site on the
southwest side of Bonaire where divers can swim out toward a reef that
shelves quickly to deep water.

Dennis

> Forest Aten
Kevin Falconer - 24 Jan 2004 15:27 GMT
Lou posted:

> While I was there, I took the SDI Solo Diver Course from Walt Stark of Rec
> Tek Scuba. I guess the most important thing I learned was to "file a flight
> plan" when going on a dive.

not to change the topic but what did you think of the SDI solo diver
class ?

Kevin Falconer  Fort Myers, FL
Lou Vallone - 24 Jan 2004 16:39 GMT
> Lou posted:
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Kevin Falconer  Fort Myers, FL

It was an interesting afternoon.

Walt Stark was the instructor. He spent some time going over my log books (I
have several hundred solo dives logged in them - I brought with me the ones
from previous Bonaire trips.)

We spent time discussing the reasons and circumstances appropriate for solo
dives (he had a pre printed syllabus). We also discussed various gear
requirements for the endeavor. This "instructional" part was informal, peer
to peer dialogue more than lecture and took a couple of hours. I had
previously read (can't remember the author's name at the moment) the book
"Solo Diving" and we discussed that. We also traded horror stories about
buddy diving experiences we had each had.

Two dives are required. For the first one, he became an observer for the
most part as I assembled my gear and stated my dive plan. He then followed
me through an 80 minute shore dive at La Machaca reef during which I did
basic skill things like doff and don, mask flood, etc. He would take note of
the frequency with which I checked gas supply, depth, time and so on. He
watched my general demeanor, buoyancy, trim, awareness of environment and
general comfort and handling of myself underwater. We hit a max depth of
about 75 fsw. (FYI, I dove 32% Nitrox on an air computer.)

During the surface interval, we talked about some of things we saw on the
dive and had just general conversation that two divers would have about a
dive.

For the second dive, he outlined before we entered the water what I would
have to demonstrate as the skills for the solo dive cert:

1. Simulate an out of gas situation at 60 fsw by removing my primary
regulator from my mouth.

2. Switch to my independent gas delivery system - which in my case on this
dive was a  3 cu f Spare Air.

3. Ascend to the surface at a rate no faster than 60 feet per minute (no
safety stop planned).

4. At the surface, orally inflate my BC.

5. Orally inflate and wave my surface signaling device: an 3' orange
sausage.

6. Activate my audible surface signaling device: a whistle.

7. Take a heading with my compass to ascertain my shore exit point.

8. Surface swim to the exit point - which I choose to do on my back instead
of with a snorkel.  Exit the water and disassemble and store the gear.

After we exited, we discussed my level of comfort with the exercises. He
gave his opinion of how well I executed them and he declared that I had
passed the course. He provided me with some waiver forms from SDI that I can
give to operations if they wish to have them on file if I dive solo with
them.

During the rest of my stay there, we spent some time together.

By the time I returned home, my card had already arrived in the mail.

It is considered, by SDI at least, a technical cert, and the cost was $200
US. I used all of my own equipment, but the pony, the surface signaling
device and air would have been provided as part of the course had I wished.
Also, I was on an unlimited shore dive package there, but the two dives are
part of the course cost.

I did not really learn a great deal that I did not already know, but it is
always good to have positive reinforcement and to be critiqued by a
knowledgeable person to insure that I have not taken on any bad techniques.

Short version: I wanted the card, I got it. For me, it was a worthwhile
endeavor. YMMV.

Signature

But then again, what do I know?

Lou Vallone

LouVallone@aol.com

http://members.aol.com/LouVallone

Jammer Six - 24 Jan 2004 19:58 GMT
> 2. Switch to my independent gas delivery system - which in my case on this
> dive was a  3 cu f Spare Air.
>
> I did not really learn a great deal that I did not already know,

Gee, we're all really glad you're here.

It's a shame you can't stay.

Signature

"We're going to rush the hijackers."
    -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001

ChristianG - 25 Jan 2004 05:13 GMT
> ? 2. Switch to my independent gas delivery system - which in my case on this
> ? dive was a  3 cu f Spare Air.

I note you said "in my case on this dive".

Did your Instructor make any comment regarding what properly
constitutes a bail out bottle?

If so, was this one of them? I must assume it was, otherwise he would
hardly have passed you?

It's a toy, a toy often referred to as "Spare Death".

Bah! What a nonsense.
nospam@all.please.net - 25 Jan 2004 08:48 GMT
> > ? 2. Switch to my independent gas delivery system - which in my case on this
> > ? dive was a  3 cu f Spare Air.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Bah! What a nonsense.

You, like many, don't do bail out calculations correctly.
Lou Vallone - 25 Jan 2004 15:12 GMT
> > ? 2. Switch to my independent gas delivery system - which in my case on this
> > ? dive was a  3 cu f Spare Air.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Did your Instructor make any comment regarding what properly
> constitutes a bail out bottle?

Yes, there are many options that are discussed.

Short version: the proper one is the one that allows you to safely make the
ascent.

> If so, was this one of them? I must assume it was, otherwise he would
> hardly have passed you?

Yes. I safely ascended from the drill.

> It's a toy, a toy often referred to as "Spare Death".

By the invincibly ignorant, perhaps.

Then again, all the technology that allows us to survive in an environment
that is inherently antithetical by nature to air breathers can be referred
to as toys. You play with yours . . . .

Signature

But then again, what do I know?

Lou Vallone

LouVallone@aol.com

http://members.aol.com/LouVallone

Jammer Six - 25 Jan 2004 23:13 GMT
> > It's a toy, a toy often referred to as "Spare Death".
>
> By the invincibly ignorant, perhaps.

That was pretty funny.

Stroke alert.

Signature

"We're going to rush the hijackers."
    -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001

Lee Bell - 25 Jan 2004 14:21 GMT
Clueless alert.  Lou has been around longer than Jammer.  Much longer.

Lee

> ? 2. Switch to my independent gas delivery system - which in my case on
this
> ? dive was a  3 cu f Spare Air.
> ?
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> "We're going to rush the hijackers."
>      -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001
Lou Vallone - 25 Jan 2004 15:16 GMT
> Clueless alert.  Lou has been around longer than Jammer.  Much longer.
>
> Lee

"There are old divers, and there are bold divers. But . . . . . . ."

From one golden oldie to another: Happy New Year to you and the better half!

Signature

But then again, what do I know?

Lou Vallone

LouVallone@aol.com

http://members.aol.com/LouVallone

Lee Bell - 26 Jan 2004 12:28 GMT
>> From one golden oldie to another: Happy New Year to you and the
> better half!

Thanks.  Let me know when you're going to be down this way again.  It's been
too long.

Lee
Lou Vallone - 26 Jan 2004 18:11 GMT
> Thanks.  Let me know when you're going to be down this way again.  It's been
> too long.

It has been indeed. I have not done any diving in Florida since January
1999. And it was October of 1995 that you and I last dove together.

There is a possibility that I may be in Miami Beach for a workshop from the
evening of May 9 to the morning of May 13 2004.

The water temps may be a bit cold for a dinosaur like me, but if the thing
develops I would at least like to get together for a meal with you and
Jayna. I'll keep you posted.

Signature

But then again, what do I know?

Lou Vallone

LouVallone@aol.com

http://members.aol.com/LouVallone

Jammer Six - 26 Jan 2004 19:50 GMT
>  I'll keep you posted.

Don't bother.

We have spencer here, and one is quite enough.

Signature

"We're going to rush the hijackers."
    -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001

Rich Lockyer - 27 Jan 2004 06:47 GMT
>> 2. Switch to my independent gas delivery system - which in my case on this
>> dive was a  3 cu f Spare Air.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>It's a shame you can't stay.

At least he didn't use the snorkel.

 --- Rich
 http://richlockyer.tripod.com/
Jammer Six - 27 Jan 2004 11:07 GMT
> >> 2. Switch to my independent gas delivery system - which in my case on this
> >> dive was a  3 cu f Spare Air.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> At least he didn't use the snorkel.

We'll bet that it was there.

Signature

"We're going to rush the hijackers."
    -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001

Kevin Falconer - 25 Jan 2004 13:09 GMT
"Lou Vallone" <LouVallone@bigfoot.com> wrote in message

> Walt Stark was the instructor. He spent some time going over my log books (I
> have several hundred solo dives logged in them - I brought with me the ones
> from previous Bonaire trips.)

Thanks for the recap lou, I want to start doing some drift diving off the
charters as a solo diver, the captains here (Florida) are pretty reluctant
to allow solo diving unless they know you well, perhaps some type off
cert would help in some cases. It may be a coincidence but the only times
I've had any stress while diving is when with a buddy and it has been because
of something they were or were not doing that created a risky situation.
Thanks again, for your comments.

Kevin Falconer  Fort Myers, FL
mike gray, CID - 25 Jan 2004 15:10 GMT
> "Lou Vallone" <LouVallone@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> of something they were or were not doing that created a risky situation.
> Thanks again, for your comments.

As one who solo dives from several SoFla charters, I assure you that the
operators will continue to exercise their own judgement on who can go
solo and who can not. Solo certification won't change a thing.
Lee Bell - 26 Jan 2004 12:28 GMT
>> "Lou Vallone" <LouVallone@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
>>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> the operators will continue to exercise their own judgement on who
> can go solo and who can not. Solo certification won't change a thing.

Except, perhaps, the fun one can have harassing them.

Lee
Greg Mossman - 25 Jan 2004 20:52 GMT
> Thanks for the recap lou, I want to start doing some drift diving off the
> charters as a solo diver, the captains here (Florida) are pretty reluctant
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> of something they were or were not doing that created a risky situation.
> Thanks again, for your comments.

The difference is that Lou seems to know his stuff.  You clearly don't and
are an accident waiting to happen.  Better the accident happen while you are
solo, I agree.
Lee Bell - 25 Jan 2004 21:14 GMT
> > Thanks for the recap lou, I want to start doing some drift diving off the
> > charters as a solo diver, the captains here (Florida) are pretty reluctant
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> are an accident waiting to happen.  Better the accident happen while you are
> solo, I agree.

I can confirm that Lou knows what he's doing.  He's known what he was doing
a long as I've known him and, if I'm not mistaken, that's quite a long time
now.

Lee
Greg Mossman - 24 Jan 2004 05:18 GMT
> I got this from another forum.  Friends of a friend are involved and are
> seeking information.  If you have more than what appears in the link, please
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/0104/11missing.html

I was on a Habitat boat when the crew got the news and shared it with us.
Over the next couple days we basically got the same info supplied in the
article, except that we surmised it was a couple and their children, not two
men (not that there's anything wrong with that).  A helicopter was buzzing
the area all day and night and they had a boat searching for them as well.
The local rumor was suicide, but that's when we thought it was a husband and
wife and look how wrong that assumption was.

The conditions were pretty calm and the weather was cooperating, at least
during the day, with good visibility both above and below the surface.  It's
odd they haven't been found since the wall bottoms out around 140'.  I'm not
sure what kind of subsurface search was going on, if any.
Bill & Susan - 24 Jan 2004 14:48 GMT
> > I got this from another forum.  Friends of a friend are involved and are
> > seeking information.  If you have more than what appears in the link,
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> odd they haven't been found since the wall bottoms out around 140'.  I'm not
> sure what kind of subsurface search was going on, if any.

You'd be surprised how deep the trench is between Bonaire and Klein
Bonaire!!
Greg Mossman - 24 Jan 2004 16:27 GMT
> You'd be surprised how deep the trench is between Bonaire and Klein
> Bonaire!!

Maybe Bob Ling could disenlighten us?
H. Huntzinger - 25 Jan 2004 14:02 GMT
> The conditions were pretty calm and the weather was cooperating, at least
> during the day, with good visibility both above and below the surface.  It's
> odd they haven't been found since the wall bottoms out around 140'.  I'm not
> sure what kind of subsurface search was going on, if any.

Its been a long time since I dived Karpata, and I've never been down to
the sand there...my understanding was that it was closer to the ~200fsw
depth of the nearby Windjamber, and that the rule of thumb was that its
deeper up north than down south.  

There's also some cavelet pockets on Karpata's southside.  Nothing huge,
but enough to be considered 'Cavern' from an overhead management POV.

-hh
Adam Helberg - 15 Mar 2004 07:18 GMT
> I got this from another forum.  Friends of a friend are involved and are
> seeking information.  If you have more than what appears in the link, please
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/0104/11missing.html

The locator beacon may have helped find the divers.
Steve - 15 Mar 2004 17:33 GMT
>>http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/0104/11missing.html
>
> The locator beacon may have helped find the divers.

Yeah. They went out at 8AM and were reported missing when they didn't come home by
11PM. If they'd had locator beacons they probably would have been found by midnight,
well before their air ran out.

Signature

Steve

The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable
belief that it was intended as a statement of fact.

If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address.

bullshark - 15 Mar 2004 20:27 GMT
>The locator beacon may have helped find the divers.

...and that would make them alive now, is that your premise?

bullshark
 
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