Scuba Forum / General / July 2008
Tires Off SE Florida (was "Warm water dive in continental US")
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Lee Bell - 15 Jul 2008 11:07 GMT Jer wrote
Jer: Last I heard (last year I think), the state was looking for funds to undo Jer: that catastrophic brain fart.
Lee: They're not looking hard enough. Divers all over the place have volunteered Lee: to participate in tire removal projects. All the state has to do is get us Lee: there and back and provide a way to take the tires back to shore. Some of Lee: us are willing to go further. Some of us with boats would provide our own Lee: transportation to the sites and, on a space available basis, would take Lee: others out as well. In our case, the state doesn't even have to provide Lee: transportation, just a way to pull the tires out of the water and get them Lee: back to shore. Granted, it would not be a quick process if done by Lee: volunteers, but it would at least be progress, something we're not seeing Lee: now.
Jer: Yeah, that's a sad deal... I'd be interested in hearing about what sort Jer: of system is proposed. Some sort of hoist at the surface while divers Jer: hang one tire after another? This would offer non-divers a topside Jer: opportunity to be active participants. A barge could haul a lot of Jer: tires to shore while smaller tender boats would offload their catch and Jer: transport the divers. Whatever ends up, that's gonna be a ungodly mess.
My recollection is that they planned to hook a bunch together and bring them up at once, but that may have been part of discussions rather than state plans. It's been a while since this topic was last discussed.
I'm glad this got introduced into this thread. I'm going to move it to a thread of its own after I send this. Once again reminded of the issue, I'm going to spend some time trying to find out just what the status of the state's plans are.
I'll get back to the group with whatever I find, assuming that somebody else does not beat me to it.
Lee
El Stroko Guapo - 15 Jul 2008 21:28 GMT Broward Artificial Reef, Inc. came up with the idea of dumping 36 acres of tires at Osborne Reef in 1972. The Army Corps of Engineers approved the plan as did the Broward County Commission. The USS Thrush and more than 100 private boats volunteered to throw the bundles of tires overboard, with the sponsorship of Goodyear.
Last summer, the Navy removed a few tires as part of a training mission. A full-scale salvage operation was forecast to run through 2010 at a cost to the state of about $3.4 million.
Florida’s 2008 budget includes $2 million to help raise and dispose of the tires. The Navy divers work at no cost to the state.
There are no plans to fund volunteer work, because of liability issues.
There are roughly 2 million tires that have been spreading along the reef as the bundle bindings break. A hurricane in the area could spread them over a relatively healthy reef system, scouring it clean.
Fact is, only a few thousand tires can be removed by the Navy by 2010, and $3.4 million will hardly make a dent: the Navy works very slowly and for only two months per year, and the tires, once raised, have to be disposed of. A Nova University team estimated $17/tire which is prolly high, but the cost will certainly be a lot more than a buck seventy five per tire.
There is legal cause and precedent to force the dumpers to clean up their mess, and Reef Rescue is researching the case to gather evidence. Actually bringing the culprits to court, however, is far beyond Reef Rescue's financial means and will require six-figures to take on some very powerful and well-connected folks.
Meanwhile, the folks involved are making much of their good intentions and how they thought tires would make a really nifty reef, despite the fact that previous tire reefs had already proved disastrous.
Wanna cut their balls off? Go to http://www.reef-rescue.org/ and click on "DONATE".
esg
Jer - 16 Jul 2008 02:38 GMT > Broward Artificial Reef, Inc. came up with the idea of dumping 36 acres > of tires at Osborne Reef in 1972. The Army Corps of Engineers approved [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > esg Thanks Lee
I'm confused... how can legal action be brought when there was so much support, even official sanctions for this effort? People make mistakes, and this one is certainly huge, yet hidden.
I recommend we start the rumor that Al Queda subversives are hiding in those tires. The Navy wouldn't waste a second and the cost would be rolled into a DHS budget line item. If they run short, they could get a loan from the Chinese or sell some nukes to Iran.
As for the volunteers lining up to help, signing a waiver is always helpful. But if the Navy is looking for subversives, they may have trouble distinguishing a difference. :)
 Signature jer email reply - I am not a 'ten'
El Stroko Guapo - 16 Jul 2008 14:43 GMT >> Broward Artificial Reef, Inc. came up with the idea of dumping 36 >> acres of tires at Osborne Reef in 1972. The Army Corps of Engineers [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > support, even official sanctions for this effort? People make mistakes, > and this one is certainly huge, yet hidden. Legal action can be brought against polluters regardless of the popularity of those that did the polluting.
esg
Jer - 19 Jul 2008 12:52 GMT >>> Broward Artificial Reef, Inc. came up with the idea of dumping 36 >>> acres of tires at Osborne Reef in 1972. The Army Corps of Engineers [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > esg As likely as that is, my issue is with the efficacy of doing so. If the city gave me permission to dump garbage on your yard, and you don't like it, your issue isn't with me. It may well have been my mistake to listen to the city in the fist place, nevertheless...
 Signature jer email reply - I am not a 'ten'
Greg Mossman - 19 Jul 2008 14:58 GMT > As likely as that is, my issue is with the efficacy of doing so. If the > city gave me permission to dump garbage on your yard, and you don't like > it, your issue isn't with me. It may well have been my mistake to > listen to the city in the fist place, nevertheless... In that vein, perhaps Reef Rescue could go after all the Floridians creating the pollution, not the ones who merely transport it to the ocean? Revoke their toilet flushing privileges and fine them retroactively per fecal deposit.
mat.voss - 19 Jul 2008 17:59 GMT >>As likely as that is, my issue is with the efficacy of doing so. If the >>city gave me permission to dump garbage on your yard, and you don't like [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > ocean? Revoke their toilet flushing privileges and fine them > retroactively per fecal deposit. No new story. In fact dating back to the Romans, and having left us the proverb "pecunia non olet". Tax the sh.t.
Matthias
Lee Bell - 21 Jul 2008 00:28 GMT >> In that vein, perhaps Reef Rescue could go after all the Floridians >> creating the pollution, not the ones who merely transport it to the >> ocean? Revoke their toilet flushing privileges and fine them >> retroactively per fecal deposit. The tires were imported from California. We'll send you the bill.
Bob - 19 Jul 2008 18:15 GMT In article <2b5d9442-4e34-40b8-a4a0- 6f699b7ebf9e@w8g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, mossman@qnet.com says...
> > As likely as that is, my issue is with the efficacy of doing so. If the > > city gave me permission to dump garbage on your yard, and you don't like [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > ocean? Revoke their toilet flushing privileges and fine them > retroactively per fecal deposit. or take a clue from tha anti gun nuts, and go after the farmers who raise food to be eaten than then flushed into the ocean.
obviously its all the farmers fault.
Greg Mossman - 19 Jul 2008 18:31 GMT > In article <2b5d9442-4e34-40b8-a4a0- > 6f699b7eb...@w8g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, moss...@qnet.com says... [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > obviously its all the farmers fault. Or as Lee would put it, since the Mexicans pick all the food, it's all their fault. Make them clean it up, which was my idea in the first place. A few good cleaning crews armed with mops and hookah hoses would have the reefs swabbed clean in no time.
El Stroko Guapo - 19 Jul 2008 21:18 GMT >>>> Broward Artificial Reef, Inc. came up with the idea of dumping 36 >>>> acres of tires at Osborne Reef in 1972. The Army Corps of Engineers [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > it, your issue isn't with me. It may well have been my mistake to > listen to the city in the fist place, nevertheless... Cities and counties have been successfully sued to dig up entire solid waste sites, legally constructed and permitted, and move them.
esg
Jer - 20 Jul 2008 05:53 GMT >>>>> Broward Artificial Reef, Inc. came up with the idea of dumping 36 >>>>> acres of tires at Osborne Reef in 1972. The Army Corps of Engineers [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > > esg Florida sure seems strange about that.
 Signature jer email reply - I am not a 'ten'
Greg Mossman - 19 Jul 2008 14:56 GMT > I'm confused... how can legal action be brought when there was so much > support, even official sanctions for this effort? People make mistakes, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > rolled into a DHS budget line item. If they run short, they could get a > loan from the Chinese or sell some nukes to Iran. Better yet, start a rumor that the tires mark sites for offshore drilling and the Republicans and oil companies will be tripping over each other to clear them away and replace them with signs stating "Property of Exxon".
Bob - 19 Jul 2008 18:13 GMT In article <60f61815-bcef-46bd-9e59-7d8a98e7fe67 @h17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, mossman@qnet.com says...
> > I'm confused... how can legal action be brought when there was so much > > support, even official sanctions for this effort? People make mistakes, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > each other to clear them away and replace them with signs stating > "Property of Exxon". that would work if oilmen had the iqs of lawyers.
Greg Mossman - 19 Jul 2008 18:32 GMT > In article <60f61815-bcef-46bd-9e59-7d8a98e7fe67 > @h17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, moss...@qnet.com says... [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > that would work > if oilmen had the iqs of lawyers. Worse. Wasn't George Bush an oilman?
El Stroko Guapo - 19 Jul 2008 21:20 GMT >>In article <60f61815-bcef-46bd-9e59-7d8a98e7fe67 >>@h17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, moss...@qnet.com says... [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Worse. Wasn't George Bush an oilman? Worse. He's a lawyer.
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