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Scuba Forum / General / May 2008

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Further to Scotts "Good News "thread

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dechucka - 25 May 2008 23:09 GMT
Not sure if I would dive with this bloke or always dive with this bloke. He
is either very unlucky or extremely lucky. I suspect unlucky but very
competent.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/third-brush-with-death/2008/05/26/1211653883
156.html

May 26, 2008 - 7:09AM

A British man who was rescued with his girlfriend after 19 hours in the
water off north Queensland has had two previous brushes with death in the
past four years.

Thirty-eight-year-old Richard Neely's father Stuart has told Britain's
Sunday Mirror newspaper it's the third time his son has cheated death.

snip

Howe ever the allegations and counter allegations now begin

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/real-drama-starts-now/2008/05/26/12116538471
89.html


Jonathan Dart
May 26, 2008 - 7:50AM

RICHARD NEELY said he waved frantically to fellow crew members before he and
his partner were left to drift in shark-inhabited waters on the Great
Barrier Reef for 20 hours in a diving trip that went horribly wrong.

But crew members have contested his story, saying the boat remained at the
dive site overnight so staff could search for the pair and that they could
not have surfaced 200 metres from the boat as claimed

snip
Anthony R Pierre - 26 May 2008 20:49 GMT
>>snip<<
> But crew members have contested his story, saying the boat remained at
> the dive site overnight so staff could search for the pair and that
> they could not have surfaced 200 metres from the boat as claimed

This is why I dive "solo". Same ocean as other friends, but by myself.
dechucka - 26 May 2008 21:50 GMT
>>>snip<<
>> But crew members have contested his story, saying the boat remained at
>> the dive site overnight so staff could search for the pair and that
>> they could not have surfaced 200 metres from the boat as claimed
>
> This is why I dive "solo". Same ocean as other friends, but by myself.

not sure how diving solo give you an advantage or hinders you in this
stuation.
Anthony R Pierre - 26 May 2008 22:18 GMT
>>>> snip<<
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> not sure how diving solo give you an advantage or hinders you in this
> stuation.

This guy seems to have had several "mishaps" while diving. And then, there
is the conflicting story around this...
dechucka - 26 May 2008 23:55 GMT
>>>>> snip<<
>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> This guy seems to have had several "mishaps" while diving. And then, there
> is the conflicting story around this....

I am beginning to think that i wouldn't dive with this bloke
Anthony R Pierre - 26 May 2008 22:19 GMT
>>>> snip<<
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> not sure how diving solo give you an advantage or hinders you in this
> stuation.

Oh, and while it is possible to have things "happen" to you underwater, getting
lost from the anchor line is something that I have not down in all my many
years and hundreds of dives of diving have done.
-hh - 26 May 2008 23:08 GMT
> But crew members have contested his story, saying
> the boat remained at the dive site overnight so staff
> could search for the pair and that they could not
> have surfaced 200 metres from the boat as claimed

Crew members unfortunately have a stake at the liability table.

What do the other *customers* who were onboard the boat have to say
about what happened?

And the time that the local authorities were notified is a matter of
public record:  how many hours passed before any call (not just a
request for S&R) was placed?

-hh
dechucka - 27 May 2008 00:19 GMT
>> But crew members have contested his story, saying
>> the boat remained at the dive site overnight so staff
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> -hh
dechucka - 27 May 2008 00:27 GMT
>> But crew members have contested his story, saying
>> the boat remained at the dive site overnight so staff
>> could search for the pair and that they could not
>> have surfaced 200 metres from the boat as claimed
>
> Crew members unfortunately have a stake at the liability table.

and the divers also have responsibilities, i.e. you do not deliberately
leave the lagoon where the dive is taking place against the safety
instructions of the dive boat without taking full responsibility for your
actions.

> What do the other *customers* who were onboard the boat have to say
> about what happened?

that the 2 were w.nkers who talked and laughed through the safety briefing
and disobeyed the safety briefing

> And the time that the local authorities were notified is a matter of
> public record:  how many hours passed before any call (not just a
> request for S&R) was placed?

This is starting to sound more and more suss. I have been talking to some
dive people I know up at Aerlie Beach and real questions are starting to be
asked. The Telegraph raises some of them but this whole thing may not have
been an accident. Love how they had the Million$ exclusive deal stitched up
before the chopper landed.

OK this lists some of the allegations about these 2

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,23763559-5001021,00.html
-hh - 27 May 2008 11:31 GMT
> >> But crew members have contested his story, saying
> >> the boat remained at the dive site overnight so staff
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> instructions of the dive boat without taking full responsibility for your
> actions.

Agreed, if that is what really happened.  The problem is that that
statement is in contention:  Neely/Dalton have rejected the claims
that they had disobeyed instructions from dive masters.  Again it
comes down to the question of who really said what.  More below.

> > What do the other *customers* who were onboard the boat have to say
> > about what happened?
>
> that the 2 were w.nkers who talked and laughed through the safety briefing
> and disobeyed the safety briefing

That comment sounds like what "Rebecca Sharkey, a UK Backpacker"
inferred.  Unfortunately, no info on if she's a naive novice who's
still terrified of the water, or someone reasonably qualified to make
an informed statement.  And considering that there was this quote
(which I assume was from Sharkey):

"Everybody else was on the trip for a bit of a dive and a couple of
drinks but they were really focused on their diving and that they were
going to see a specific thing."

In light of recognizing that they were focused on their diving - -
while the commenter was apparently focused on their 'couple of drinks'
part - - makes the claims they were being unsafe to be questionable.

Granted, on the question of the dive plan and in/out of the lagoon, it
is quite possible ... if not downright probable ... for a very
experienced diver to blow off parts of the typical safety briefing
today.  Unfortunately, a big part of the reason why is because it has
not become uncommon for the said "briefing" to not be brief at all:
I've had to suffer through ones that have lasted upwards of 30 minutes
and included every possible bullshit hazard including sunburn.

Thus, the question that I would ask is how long did the safety
briefing take?

It can't all be of critical importance and 2 minutes of important
stuff hidden in 20 minutes of banal Kumbaya's (that make lawyers
happy) will invariably result in people missing the important stuff.

IMNSHO, if the operator can't hit the important points and be done in
<5 minutes, it isn't a recreational dive and thus, the briefing
compromised safety by being too long.

> > And the time that the local authorities were notified is a matter of
> > public record:  how many hours passed before any call (not just a
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> been an accident. Love how they had the Million$ exclusive deal stitched up
> before the chopper landed.

Yes, there's special interests who are blowing smoke.

For example, I also noticed a comment about how "suspicious" it was
that they were wearing "full-length thick wetsuits with hoods in the
tropical 23C waters".  23C is 74F and for a planned 60 minute dive,
I'd probably go for a full 5mm suit, possibly with hood.  I typically
wear a full 3mm suit in 27C (82F) water because I find that otherwise,
I get chilled at around 45 minutes...but gosh, what do I know?
Afterall, my first dive was back in the 1970s.

Similarly, the "bottle of fresh water" routine...sounds to me like a
cheap variant of a "Scuda", which has been discussed here on
<rec.scuba> many times over the years.  Casually polling the
<rec.scuba> archives, I find that there have been over 100 hits from
{"cotton mouth" / "cottonmouth"} problem and that discussions of
hydration through regulators with moisture vanes (Sherwood Oasis) or
moisture wicks (Apollo Bio-filter) are both clearly less common than
'Scuda' (which returns 100+ hits).

And comments to "stand on the reef" (to prevent drifting away) sounds
like local knowledge that the visitors were not privy to...and I know
that if I were awaiting a boat pickup, I'd probably avoid getting into
areas that I feared were too shallow...that's potentially unsafe for
the boat and unsafe for the diver.

-hh
dechucka - 28 May 2008 01:34 GMT
"dechucka" <dechu...@vomithotmail.com> wrote:
> "-hh" <recscuba_goo...@huntzinger.com> wrote:
> > "dechucka" <dechu...@vomithotmail.com> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> instructions of the dive boat without taking full responsibility for your
> actions.

Agreed, if that is what really happened.  The problem is that that
statement is in contention:  Neely/Dalton have rejected the claims
that they had disobeyed instructions from dive masters.  Again it
comes down to the question of who really said what.  More below.

> > What do the other *customers* who were onboard the boat have to say
> > about what happened?
>
> that the 2 were w.nkers who talked and laughed through the safety briefing
> and disobeyed the safety briefing

That comment sounds like what "Rebecca Sharkey, a UK Backpacker"
inferred.  Unfortunately, no info on if she's a naive novice who's
still terrified of the water, or someone reasonably qualified to make
an informed statement.  And considering that there was this quote
(which I assume was from Sharkey):

"Everybody else was on the trip for a bit of a dive and a couple of
drinks but they were really focused on their diving and that they were
going to see a specific thing."

In light of recognizing that they were focused on their diving - -
while the commenter was apparently focused on their 'couple of drinks'
part - - makes the claims they were being unsafe to be questionable.

Granted, on the question of the dive plan and in/out of the lagoon, it
is quite possible ... if not downright probable ... for a very
experienced diver to blow off parts of the typical safety briefing
today.  Unfortunately, a big part of the reason why is because it has
not become uncommon for the said "briefing" to not be brief at all:
I've had to suffer through ones that have lasted upwards of 30 minutes
and included every possible bullshit hazard including sunburn.

Thus, the question that I would ask is how long did the safety
briefing take?

It can't all be of critical importance and 2 minutes of important
stuff hidden in 20 minutes of banal Kumbaya's (that make lawyers
happy) will invariably result in people missing the important stuff.

IMNSHO, if the operator can't hit the important points and be done in
<5 minutes, it isn't a recreational dive and thus, the briefing
compromised safety by being too long.

> > And the time that the local authorities were notified is a matter of
> > public record: how many hours passed before any call (not just a
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> up
> before the chopper landed.

Yes, there's special interests who are blowing smoke.

For example, I also noticed a comment about how "suspicious" it was
that they were wearing "full-length thick wetsuits with hoods in the
tropical 23C waters".  23C is 74F and for a planned 60 minute dive,
I'd probably go for a full 5mm suit, possibly with hood.  I typically
wear a full 3mm suit in 27C (82F) water because I find that otherwise,
I get chilled at around 45 minutes...but gosh, what do I know?
Afterall, my first dive was back in the 1970s.

Similarly, the "bottle of fresh water" routine...sounds to me like a
cheap variant of a "Scuda", which has been discussed here on
<rec.scuba> many times over the years.  Casually polling the
<rec.scuba> archives, I find that there have been over 100 hits from
{"cotton mouth" / "cottonmouth"} problem and that discussions of
hydration through regulators with moisture vanes (Sherwood Oasis) or
moisture wicks (Apollo Bio-filter) are both clearly less common than
'Scuda' (which returns 100+ hits).

And comments to "stand on the reef" (to prevent drifting away) sounds
like local knowledge that the visitors were not privy to...and I know
that if I were awaiting a boat pickup, I'd probably avoid getting into
areas that I feared were too shallow...that's potentially unsafe for
the boat and unsafe for the diver.

all valid points, wonder if the"truth" will ever come out

-hh
Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick - 27 May 2008 15:45 GMT
>>> But crew members have contested his story, saying
>>> the boat remained at the dive site overnight so staff
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> instructions of the dive boat without taking full responsibility for your
> actions.

 Cite, please.

 Try not to take six posts this time.

>> What do the other *customers* who were onboard the boat have to say
>> about what happened?
>
> that the 2 were w.nkers who talked and laughed through the safety briefing
> and disobeyed the safety briefing

 Cite.

>> And the time that the local authorities were notified is a matter of
>> public record:  how many hours passed before any call (not just a
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> dive people I know up at Aerlie Beach and real questions are starting to
> be asked.

 Like why the boat took three hours to call for help?

>The Telegraph raises some of them but this whole thing may not have been an
>accident. Love how they had the Million$ exclusive deal stitched up before
>the chopper landed.

 After "Open Water", that's not a surprise.

> OK this lists some of the allegations about these 2

 No doubt:

al·le·ga·tion     (al'i-ga'sh?n)  Pronunciation Key

3 A statement asserting something without proof:

4 An assertion made by a party that must be proved or supported with
evidence.

 Unsupported allegation; Your specialty.

> http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,23763559-5001021,00.html

"But speaking on Channel 9 last night, Mr Neely rejected claims he and Ms
Dalton had disobeyed instructions from dive masters and claimed the dive
company did not do enough to locate them.

"I don't think they were looking for us in the right direction," he said.

The pair were adamant that they surfaced were they were supposed to and at
the allotted time.

Ms Dalton said they tried to attract attention after watching the dinghy
return to the boat with two nearby divers.

"We were signalling with our surface marker buoy and then Richard used his
whistle," she said.

Police yesterday finished inquiries and confirmed no charges will be laid."

      There's no way this guy would make a public statement like this after
having told the police a completely different story.

Signature

                                 Popeye
       "I mean to kill you in one minute, Ned, or see
        you hanged, at Fort Smith, at Judge Parker's
           convenience. Which'll it be?" - Cogburn
                   www.finalprotectivefire.com

dechucka - 29 May 2008 02:39 GMT
>>>> But crew members have contested his story, saying
>>>> the boat remained at the dive site overnight so staff
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
>  Cite, please.

Sorry missed you here. Done read the thread

>  Try not to take six posts this time.
>
[quoted text clipped - 57 lines]
>       There's no way this guy would make a public statement like this
> after having told the police a completely different story.

interesting ALLEGATIONS made by the people making the money
Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick - 29 May 2008 03:53 GMT
>>>>> But crew members have contested his story, saying
>>>>> the boat remained at the dive site overnight so staff
[quoted text clipped - 75 lines]
>
> interesting ALLEGATIONS made by the people making the money

 Still no cites.

 Accident victims making formal statements to the police are not
"ALLEGATIONS".

 Your baseless and spineless repudiation of such statements are.

 STUPID, STUPID, STUPID.

Signature

                                 Popeye
       "I mean to kill you in one minute, Ned, or see
        you hanged, at Fort Smith, at Judge Parker's
           convenience. Which'll it be?" - Cogburn
                   www.finalprotectivefire.com

dechucka - 29 May 2008 04:23 GMT
>>>>>> But crew members have contested his story, saying
>>>>>> the boat remained at the dive site overnight so staff
[quoted text clipped - 78 lines]
>
>  Still no cites.

done

they are the blue links you click on them with your left mouse button. The
big problem with you is that you have to READ and COMPREHEND the cites and
try and ignore your inbuilt ignorance and biases to actually understand
Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick - 29 May 2008 05:29 GMT
>>>>>>> But crew members have contested his story, saying
>>>>>>> the boat remained at the dive site overnight so staff
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>>>
>>> Sorry missed you here. Done read the thread

 No cite here.

>>>>  Try not to take six posts this time.

 Guess that was wishful thinking.

>>>>>> What do the other *customers* who were onboard the boat have to say
>>>>>> about what happened?
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>>>>
>>>>  Cite.

 No cite here, of course.

>>>>>> And the time that the local authorities were notified is a matter of
>>>>>> public record:  how many hours passed before any call (not just a
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>>>>>been an accident. Love how they had the Million$ exclusive deal
>>>>>stitched up before the chopper landed.

 No cite here, as usual.

>>>>  After "Open Water", that's not a surprise.
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
> big problem with you is that you have to READ and COMPREHEND the cites and
> try and ignore your inbuilt ignorance and biases to actually understand

 Still no cites.

 Just the usual bombast & flummery.

Signature

                                 Popeye
       "I mean to kill you in one minute, Ned, or see
        you hanged, at Fort Smith, at Judge Parker's
           convenience. Which'll it be?" - Cogburn
                   www.finalprotectivefire.com

dechucka - 29 May 2008 05:51 GMT
snip

>  Still no cites.

click on the blue lines
Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick - 28 May 2008 06:29 GMT
"Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick" <Popeye@finalprotectivefire.com> wrote in
message news:...

>>> "dechucka" <dechu...@vomithotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
>  Try not to take six posts this time.

 HELLLOOOOOOO!!!!!!

>>> What do the other *customers* who were onboard the boat have to say
>>> about what happened?
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
>       There's no way this guy would make a public statement like this
> after having told the police a completely different story.

 Stupid Dave seems to have missed this one.

Signature

                                 Popeye
       "I mean to kill you in one minute, Ned, or see
        you hanged, at Fort Smith, at Judge Parker's
           convenience. Which'll it be?" - Cogburn
                   www.finalprotectivefire.com

 
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