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Scuba Forum / General / May 2008Scuba Gear Pricing
Can anyone explain the huge range of pricing in scuba gear? I don't mean the difference between different manufacturers. I mean the same gear priced so radically different. It's not just a few measly dollars either, it's like 25% to 50% or so. Here in Canada the prices seem to be much higher than other places and of course on-line. I live in land-locked Waterloo, Ontario, at least 2 hours drive from decent diving so I originally thought that it was simple volume, I mean how much gear can a shop two hours from anywhere sell? Then I went to a dive shop in Salt Lake City, which I'm guessing was much further from "anywhere" than Waterloo, and their pricing was much better. Is this a Canada issue? Many U.S. companies treat Canada with neglect and there have been rumours that this is the case with scuba gear. Are there any company reps, dealers, or otherwise that can explain the pricing difference? Or is this not unique to Canada? Can this be seen between states, cities or even stores in the same city? I do want to support our local shops, they do a great job in training and community building, but I can't help but wonder why the price difference? > Can anyone explain the huge range of pricing in scuba gear? I don't > mean the difference between different manufacturers. I mean the same [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > and community building, but I can't help but wonder why the price > difference? Much gear these days is sold to retailers on a rebate plan: the shop that sells two or three units gets no rebate, the shop that sells a thousand units might get a 40% rebate. Same as cars. Let's say yer lds stocks one goatskin for which he paid $60. He has to sell it for $100 to make ends meet (rent, insurance, utilities, alimony, etc.) Let's say yer online hustler stocks 1,000 goatskins, for which he pays $60,000 and gets a $20,000 rebate. He sells 800 for $85, a big discount from yer lds, and dumps the remaining 200 in Cozumel or on E-bay or year end sales for $60 each. He makes $40 per unit just like yer lds. It's the manufacturers who are f.cking the lds and the diver that wants a closer relationship with his vendor. In the short run, it is more profitable for the manufacturer to rebate some of the savings from volume sales. In the long run, it is cutting off their noses to spite their faces. esg > It's the manufacturers who are f.cking the lds and the diver that wants > a closer relationship with his vendor. In the short run, it is more > profitable for the manufacturer to rebate some of the savings from > volume sales. In the long run, it is cutting off their noses to spite > their faces. They seem to be ignoring the Internet too. Some manufacturers impose arbitrary rules preventing online sales. Aqualung and Suunto, for example, don't honor warranties for online sales. I imagine others do as well. Ignoring the Internet has proven to be a bad thing for companies and dive gear manufacturers are following that same bad advice. >> It's the manufacturers who are f.cking the lds and the diver that >> wants a closer relationship with his vendor. In the short run, it [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > companies and dive gear manufacturers are following that same bad > advice. And it gets worse in places like here in Oz. Typically manufacturers set up "sole distributor" agreements with one company in Australia and they tack on a (near retail) markup on the way to the retailer. Often my LDS can't buy wholesale for the price that the same kit can be had from online suppliers. It makes it very hard for the LDS to survive here. Because the manufacturers are unwilling to cut out the middlemen, there's no way that a LDS can compete. I'd like to buy from the LDS. They're mates, after all. But with a limited budget for diving -- ya gotta do what ya gotta do to stretch it. -Don > And it gets worse in places like here in Oz. Typically > manufacturers set up "sole distributor" agreements with [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > But with a limited budget for diving -- ya gotta do what > ya gotta do to stretch it. It's worse than that. Some of your Australian products, the Sea Hornet regulators, for example, can not be serviced elsewhere. The parts are not available. You may assume I have a Sea Hornet regulator. Lee >>> It's the manufacturers who are f.cking the lds and the diver that >>> wants a closer relationship with his vendor. In the short run, it [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > But with a limited budget for diving -- ya gotta do what > ya gotta do to stretch it. My LDS guys provide free air fills (nitrox & helium basically at cost), and access to the shop to do my own rebuilds, and pretty decent discounts on major purchases. They also have helium and argon. If I attend a product orientation class once a year as and "AI", I can make a once yearly purchase of virtually any Scubapro product at 50% off list.  SignaturePopeye "I mean to kill you in one minute, Ned, or see you hanged, at Fort Smith, at Judge Parker's convenience. Which'll it be?" - Cogburn www.finalprotectivefire.com >> It's the manufacturers who are f.cking the lds and the diver that wants >> a closer relationship with his vendor. In the short run, it is more [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > companies and dive gear manufacturers are following that same bad > advice. I work both sides of the border. I was trying to buy a simple chrome extension for a spot mirror. At the Husky truck stop in Sask, it was $33Cn Same part, same manufacturer in the Fargo Petro, $19US. I try to spend some money at my LDS (local dive shop) to keep them afloat. That is, however, because they provide me with service above and beyond, and a 15-30% discount, and more than a few cold beers. Major purchases of brands they do not carry, or, have a low likelihood of not needing warranty attention, I buy on the internet. In my opinion, the sales/trade restrictions imposed by the companies concerning warranty are fair- a small dive shop shouldn't -have- to warranty a product you bought elsewhere at great discount. SignaturePopeye "I mean to kill you in one minute, Ned, or see you hanged, at Fort Smith, at Judge Parker's convenience. Which'll it be?" - Cogburn www.finalprotectivefire.com > In my opinion, the sales/trade restrictions imposed by the companies > concerning warranty are fair- a small dive shop shouldn't -have- to > warranty a product you bought elsewhere at great discount. The small shop doesn't warranty the product, whether you bought it there or not. The manufacturer does. All the shop does is do the work, for which they are paid. It's not an imposition on them, it's a market strategy for them. Lee >> In my opinion, the sales/trade restrictions imposed by the companies >> concerning warranty are fair- a small dive shop shouldn't -have- to [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Lee There are some partial reimbursements in certain situations. There's not overly generous. Phone calls, mailing, time spent hunting parts, all of that is out of pocket. Difficult warranties that require repeat visits. Abuse received if the manufacturer doesn't make good. Time spent away from paying customers. Sure, it's a marketing strategy. But it's certainly an imposition as well. SignaturePopeye "I mean to kill you in one minute, Ned, or see you hanged, at Fort Smith, at Judge Parker's convenience. Which'll it be?" - Cogburn www.finalprotectivefire.com > The small shop doesn't warranty the product, whether you bought it there or > not. The manufacturer does. All the shop does is do the work, for which > they are paid. It's not an imposition on them, it's a market strategy for > them. > > Lee Sorry Lee, but unless there is something new, the dive shops are not paid for their labor for warranty service. They just get their parts replaced. Labor on warranty service is something that they agree to perform as needed. The shop only makes labor money by selling annual service to the customer. It takes time to log in all the parts and costs shipping to send them back (some MFGRs require return) and the shop has to maintain the part inventory large enough to handle any expected warranty repairs. This costs them money to have parts sitting in inventory. If a shop only sells 5 regulators of brand ABC but has to service 10 or 15 of them, then they have to stock more parts than they normally should. Minor ... yes. But an irritation all the same. No, this "parts warranty" that everyone touts so much is nothing more than a marketing program designed to help the shops sell products and bring in repeat service. It is a good deal for the shop and the customer ... but just a marketing program all the same. However, if you really believe in a brand because of it's quality, history or what our friends say, then replacement parts really aren't a factor in buying. Just my $.02 SignatureRay Contreras =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= http://www.coltri-usa.com http://www.rayzplace.com John Van Ostrand <john.van.ostrand@gmail.com> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :Can anyone explain the huge range of pricing in scuba gear? I don't :mean the difference between different manufacturers. I mean the same [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] :Here in Canada the prices seem to be much higher than other places and :of course on-line. I live in land-locked Waterloo, Ontario, I don't know the answer to your question, but I'd thought I'd mention that you are but a hop skip and a jump from respected rec.scuban John Francis, currently posting as JOF. He lives in Stratford. Dan Bracuk Never use a big word when a diminutive one will do. ----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups ---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- > I don't know the answer to your question, but I'd thought I'd mention > that you are but a hop skip and a jump from respected rec.scuban John > Francis, currently posting as JOF. Opinions vary. Popeye "I mean to kill you in one minute, Ned, or see you hanged, at Fort Smith, at Judge Parker's convenience. Which'll it be?" - Cogburn www.finalprotectivefire.com >> I don't know the answer to your question, but I'd thought I'd mention >> that you are but a hop skip and a jump from respected rec.scuban John >> Francis, currently posting as JOF. > > Opinions vary. Don't they just. "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick" <Popeye@finalprotectivefire.com> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: : Opinions vary. They do indeed. One man's hop, skip, and jump is another man's odyssey. Dan Bracuk Never use a big word when a diminutive one will do. ----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups ---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- > "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick" <Popeye@finalprotectivefire.com> > pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > They do indeed. One man's hop, skip, and jump is another man's > odyssey. That's the advantage of living in SoFla. It's only an iliad for me. esg >> "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick" <Popeye@finalprotectivefire.com> >> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > That's the advantage of living in SoFla. It's only an iliad for me. :-) SignaturePopeye "I mean to kill you in one minute, Ned, or see you hanged, at Fort Smith, at Judge Parker's convenience. Which'll it be?" - Cogburn www.finalprotectivefire.com > "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick" <Popeye@finalprotectivefire.com> > pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > They do indeed. One man's hop, skip, and jump is another man's > odyssey. Or the hop, skip and jump could just be a delusion. SignaturePopeye "I mean to kill you in one minute, Ned, or see you hanged, at Fort Smith, at Judge Parker's convenience. Which'll it be?" - Cogburn www.finalprotectivefire.com >> They do indeed. One man's hop, skip, and jump is another man's >> odyssey. > > Or the hop, skip and jump could just be a delusion. Or a lifestyle. Never - never buy Life Support Equipment over the internet - unless you are close enough to the vendor to throw it back ;through their window.. Cheap mask No good, Not a biggie Cheap ( Astoundingly Cheap !) reg or BC fails.... Had a friend who bought stuff offn the Internet. Cheap ! BC stuck open at 40 feet, rocketing them up to the surface.. at that point, are you thinking' " Gee, I sure saved a bunch of Dough on this " - On Sat, 17 May 2008 17:05:15 -0700, cheley_bonstell88 wrote: > Never > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > " Gee, I sure saved a bunch of Dough on this " I would have to say that there are probably some people who need to be held by the hand and told what they should buy by the local dive shop... On the other hand, there are those of us who do not have a problem buying online or on eBay because we know what to look for or know how to repair it if there is a problem... Actually, I think all new divers should buy the most expensive gear that their local dive shop has to offer... That way, the rest of us will get a great discount on it when they end up selling it on eBay... <evil-grin> SignatureSee NNTP header field "X-Real-Email-Address" to reply by email. > Never > > - never > > buy Life Support Equipment Right! Buy appropriate scuba gear, save money, avoid hassles. esg > Can anyone explain the huge range of pricing in scuba gear? I don't > mean the difference between different manufacturers. I mean the same > gear priced so radically different. It's not just a few measly dollars > either, it's like 25% to 50% or so. There are a number of factors: 1. Greed 2. The laws of supply and demand. 3. Differences in overhead. 4. Ability to get discounts when purchasing higher volumes of inventory. > I live in land-locked Waterloo, Ontario, at least 2 > hours drive from decent diving so I originally thought that it was [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > much further from "anywhere" than Waterloo, and their pricing was much > better. I'd almost bet that the one in Salt Lake City sells via the internet too. > Or is this not unique to Canada? Can this be seen between states, > cities or even stores in the same city? It's not unique to Canada. Yes, it can be seen even between stores in the same city. Lee > Can anyone explain the huge range of pricing in scuba gear? I don't > mean the difference between different manufacturers. I mean the same [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > and community building, but I can't help but wonder why the price > difference? I can't say for sure about the laws now, but several years ago I represented a company in the US and in Canada. In the US we were called Seasport and in Canada it was called Seapro. Because of some rulings, laws, taxes or whatever, Seasport wasn't allowed to distribute directly to Canada. We had to go through a distributor. We had an American made regulator and BC, Italian rubber goods and Mexican made accessories. All were priced quite well in the US market, but when I crossed the line to Canada, the stuff was ridiculously expensive. I am sure that some of it was the exchange rate at the time, but the biggest chunk was the distributor adding on their markup. I did find that just about every major manufacturer had a distributor in Canada that did the same thing. USD, Oceanic, Dacor and the lot were each distributed out of dive shops to other dive shops and the markup between the shops was fierce! Like I said, I can't speak for now, but I will assume that it is running somewhat the same. SignatureRay Contreras =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= http://www.coltri-usa.com http://www.rayzplace.com <el snippo> <dammit Ray, I owe you one now> > Dacor <bfg> > Like I said, I can't speak for now, but I will assume that it is running > somewhat the same. Ahhhh. |
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