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Scuba Forum / General / May 2008Question about diving certification
For many years, I've been snorkelling and diving without scuba up to ~5 meters. Now I am thinking of getting some kind of beginner's diving certificate, for very basic 10-15m scuba dives. What kind of courses, and sertificate, would you recommend ? I got totally confused about the prerequisites: some websites say it is 500 yards swim w/out any equipment (I can't do that), bot others say it is 300 meters swim with snorkel and fins (can do it easily :)). Which ones are correct ? Thanks. >For many years, I've been snorkelling and diving without scuba up to >~5 meters. Now I am thinking of getting some kind of beginner's diving [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >snorkel and fins (can do it easily :)). Which ones are correct ? >Thanks. First, It helps to know where you are located so that we can recommed a beginning point. There are many different agencies that offer basic SCUBA (or what they'll refer to as "Open Water" or "OW" courses). Each have their own standards but most are fairly "standardized." What you really want to do is find the best "instructor," no matter which agency it is. It's the instructor that makes the difference. Most Open Water courses deal with basic gear preparation, proper wearing of the gear (mask etc.)., how to breathe underwater, how to "equalize" - meaning how to keep your ears clear of pressure as you descend, and basic "buoyancy control' - how to keep at a certain depth underwater and not sink or rise unintendedly. There area some other safety skills you need to learn (how to flood & clear your mask while underwater, how to breath from your buddy's spare regulator while the two of you surface slowly, how to do safe ascents and do the safety stop af 5m. There are some communication "hand signals" to learn so you can communicate with your dive buddy as to what you're doing and if there's a problem. By the time your're done, you should be able to dive with a buddy to depths of 60' (20m). I don't recall having to do any pre-qualification swim for an OW class but each instructor and agency may be different. That's why it's important to know where you are to point you in the right direction. Where do you expect to take this course? ____________________________________________ Regards, Arnold > First, It helps to know where you are located so that we can recommed a > beginning point. From the IP address, the post seems to be originating in northern Kalifornia, in the Bay Area, southeast of Oakland...  SignatureSee NNTP header field "X-Real-Email-Address" to reply by email. >> First, It helps to know where you are located so that we can recommed a >> beginning point. > > From the IP address, the post seems to be originating in northern > Kalifornia, in the Bay Area, southeast of Oakland... Oh. In that case, he should take his open water training in the city of Solana Beach, a holiday resort about 14 miles north of San Diego. There are some recent reports of interesting sea life in that area. Lee > >> First, It helps to know where you are located so that we can recommed a > >> beginning point. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Solana Beach, a holiday resort about 14 miles north of San Diego. There are > some recent reports of interesting sea life in that area. This sad attempt at humor wouldn't fall so flat if it weren't for several facts: (a) the Farallons are much closer and much more dependable for great white sightings, (b) Solana Beach is about 500 miles away from where Grumman think the OP lives (though I doubt that, since we don't routinely use meters in California) and is a very unlikely place for dive training especially for someone from Northern California who would be much closer to much better diving in the Monterey area, and (c) Solana Beach isn't a "holiday resort" whatever that is - it's a California beach town where people live, some of whom likely commute south to work. Maybe you should stick with reposting e-mail propaganda. You do that much better. > For many years, I've been snorkelling and diving without scuba up to > ~5 meters. Now I am thinking of getting some kind of beginner's diving [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > snorkel and fins (can do it easily :)). Which ones are correct ? > Thanks. PADI requires you do 200m swim without equipment (8 lengths of average pool) plus 10 minute tread water/float. > PADI requires you do 200m swim without equipment (8 lengths of average > pool) plus 10 minute tread water/float. Good thing I certified SSI. I can not swim a stroke. No one asked, and I did not tell. David Edmonton, Alberta > For many years, I've been snorkelling and diving without scuba up to > ~5 meters. Now I am thinking of getting some kind of beginner's diving [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > snorkel and fins (can do it easily :)). Which ones are correct ? > Thanks. Depends on the agency. At least with NAUI or YMCA programs, the swim test isn't timed. Consider why you could not do a 500 yard swim. After all, you could be 500 yards offshore, lose your mask & fins (ok, unlikely...) you'll then have to get back to shore. If you can do that, then you can do the swim test. Dennis > Consider why you could not do a 500 yard swim. I can't swim 500m, or even 100m, in fresh water or in choppy seas without any equipment, because my natural buoyancy is lousy and I have to spend too much effort keeping my head above the water. If this disqualifies me from scuba diving, then it certainly should've disqualified me from snorkelling, but nobody told me about it. When snorkelling, I had a deflated vest on me, and I would inflated it had I lost the mask and fins, or snorkel and fins. I would not survive if I lost all the equipment, including the vest. But this seems to me like requiring a sailor to be able to swim to a shore from any place in the ocean... Yes, I do live in Bay Area, 30 miles from SF and 80 from Monterey. > I can't swim 500m, or even 100m, in fresh water or in choppy seas > without any equipment, because my natural buoyancy is lousy and I have [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > like requiring a sailor to be able to swim to a shore from any place > in the ocean... Not from any place in the ocean. But if he/she can see land, why not? That would be like getting stuck in a desert within crawling reach of an oasis and not knowing how to crawl. Doesn't everyone know how to crawl? > Not from any place in the ocean. But if he/she can see land, why not? Because the ocean currents are faster than you can swim? Sometimes all you can do is remain afloat and sit back and enjoy the ride... SignatureSee NNTP header field "X-Real-Email-Address" to reply by email. > But this seems to me like requiring a sailor to be > able to swim to a shore from any place in the ocean... In the Navy, we were taught that you aren't going to necessarily be able to swim to shore, but you should be able to do whatever is necessary to stay afloat for the time that it might take you to be rescued... That might be minutes or it might be days... It's not so much that you need to be a strong swimmer, but rather confident in the water... > Yes, I do live in Bay Area, 30 miles from SF and 80 from Monterey. We'll try not to hold it against you ... *too* much... SignatureSee NNTP header field "X-Real-Email-Address" to reply by email. On Apr 27, 3:55 am, Grumman-581 <grumman581+usenet-2...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Yes, I do live in Bay Area, 30 miles from SF and 80 from Monterey. > > We'll try not to hold it against you ... *too* much... Belay that Texas envy, sailor. gc Yo don't need to keep your head out of the water. Just mouth, better nose, eyes from time to time to enjoy the sky. Matthias >>Consider why you could not do a 500 yard swim. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Yes, I do live in Bay Area, 30 miles from SF and 80 from Monterey. In article <da7cf721-b41c-482e-bb17-82bda4fa8339 @x19g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, ivk2000@hotmail.com says... > I can't swim 500m, or even 100m, in fresh water or in choppy seas > without any equipment, because my natural buoyancy is lousy and I have > to spend too much effort keeping my head above the water. For most agencies the test is 200 yards, but the only way to be sure is to ask the shops that you are considering to find out what their instructors do. The test isn't timed, and you can swim any way you want to, including taking breaks floating on your back. The point is not to see how perfectly you can swim 200 yards; it is to determine how comfortable and confident you are in the water. If you using all of your energy keeping your head above water, I would suggest taking a few swimming lessons and learning how to "rotation breathe". You're much slicker in the water with your face down. Anyone who can walk and chew gum and who isn't terrified of the water can learn do it. You might also talk to your chosen instructor - he might make some sort of arrangement to have a DM work with you a bit before your class. >> I can't swim 500m, or even 100m, in fresh water or in choppy seas >> without any equipment, because my natural buoyancy is lousy and I have [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > some sort of arrangement to have a DM work with you a bit before your > class. Al's advice is good, but perhaps not the best available. Rather than working with a DM, find a swimming instructor and enlist their help. A specialist is almost always going to be a better choice. Lee Bell Water Safety Instructor (well, I used to be). > In article <da7cf721-b41c-482e-bb17-82bda4fa8339 > @x19g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, ivk2000@hotmail.com says... [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > who can walk and chew gum and who isn't terrified of the water can learn > do it. That's not entirely accurate. I knew a guy when I was younger who had so much metal in his back that he couldn't swim at all. He'd been born with some kind of spinal issue/humpback thing and the metal was supposed to help straighten him out. > > Consider why you could not do a 500 yard swim. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Yes, I do live in Bay Area, 30 miles from SF and 80 from Monterey. My scuba instructor, who also teaches swimming, is also naturally negatively bouyant. It can be overcome. Being naturally negatively bouyant is a usually good thing in scuba - less weight that has to be carried to overcome the bouyancy of the equipment/wetsuit/drysuit/etc. You're not required to swim back to shore from the boat if you lose all equipment. However, if by some chance you lost mask, snorkel, fins, it'd be a good thing if a) you could swim back to the boat, or b) stay afloat long enough to get rescued by the crew. Dennis On Apr 30, 3:20 am, "Dennis \(Icarus\)" <ala_dir_di...@yahoo.com> wrote: > You're not required to swim back to shore from the boat if you lose all > equipment. What about shore diving? >> Consider why you could not do a 500 yard swim. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > like requiring a sailor to be able to swim to a shore from any place > in the ocean... I couldn't swim worth a damn when I got certified. What is your definition of swimming? There is no time limit with NAUI or PADI. Most people can do some kind of crawl, dog paddle or whatever. If you can float on your back you can do a backstroke, and also pass the treading water test. I just kinda floated with my head back. With PADI you can swim twice the distance with mask, snorkel and fins to pass the swim test. Since passing the test I'm a much better swimmer, but freestyle is still my weakness. I think the main thing the instructor is looking for is comfort in the water. > I think the main thing the instructor is looking for is comfort in the > water. Exactly. Olympic-quality form may win races in swimming pools, but the ocean is quite a different story. Managing to stay afloat and hopefully move somewhere in direction toward shore is all that counts, no matter how one accomplishes that. If the boat isn't picking you up anytime soon, you're wearing a skin, and your BC won't hold air, comfort in the water is all that's going to keep you from panic and drowning. Ocean swimming or treading, sans flotation device, is the best practice. Go to any beach with breaking waves, preferably one warm enough for swimming without a buoyant wetsuit, swim out beyond the surf and past where you can stand up, and hang out for a while. Hopefully there's a current for you to swim against to maintain your position (but not too much so you end up in Australia). Repeat. That's how I learned. I'd be perfectly happy if I fell off a boat in the middle of nowhere without a lifejacket, at least until the sharks started biting my toes or the dehydration took its toll. I'm surprised that anyone who isn't so comfortable gets anywhere near the water. But then people who don't know how to fly jump out of perfectly good airplanes all the time, trusting in bits of cloth and string to keep them aloft. Go figure. You won't catch me skyjumping until I'm confident I can spread my wings and make a safe landing if the parachutes fail. (Right now I'm experimenting with Minoxidol to grow my underarm hair to lengths sufficient for weaving into an airtight canopy.) >> I think the main thing the instructor is looking for is comfort in the >> water. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > grow my underarm hair to lengths sufficient for weaving into an > airtight canopy.) TMI, Greg Hope it works for you! In article <18d9f481-e14d-4151-972b-da7a1e480716 @z16g2000prn.googlegroups.com>, mossman@qnet.com says... > Go figure. You won't catch me skyjumping > until I'm confident I can spread my wings and make a safe landing if > the parachutes fail. (Right now I'm experimenting with Minoxidol to > grow my underarm hair to lengths sufficient for weaving into an > airtight canopy.) and thus you win "The Laugh of the Day Award" > > Consider why you could not do a 500 yard swim. > > I can't swim 500m, or even 100m, in fresh water or in choppy seas > without any equipment, because my natural buoyancy is lousy and I have > to spend too much effort keeping my head above the water. My natural buoyancy is lousy too, as in sink with a full 3mm wetsuit on, as in skin diving in a drysuit and getting down 25 feet with no weights. I've done 3 miles in 92 minutes. Aircraft are not buoyant in air either. On Mon, 12 May 2008 19:20:42 -0700, dweebgs wrote: > My natural buoyancy is lousy too, as in sink with a full 3mm wetsuit on, > as in skin diving in a drysuit and getting down 25 feet with no weights. > I've done 3 miles in 92 minutes. Aircraft are not buoyant in air either. Yeah, but aircraft are supposed to end up at the bottom of the medium they are travelling through when they are finished with a flight... We find it a bit more convenient to be at the top of the medium when we are through with swimming... SignatureSee NNTP header field "X-Real-Email-Address" to reply by email. On May 13, 4:41 am, Grumman-581 > Yeah, but aircraft are supposed to end up at the bottom of the medium they > are travelling through when they are finished with a flight... We find it > a bit more convenient to be at the top of the medium when we are through > with swimming... Aircraft have been deployed from and recovered by dirigibles at altitude, and swimmers eventually "land" on terra firma as well. >>>Consider why you could not do a 500 yard swim. >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > on, as in skin diving in a drysuit and getting down 25 feet with no > weights. I've done 3 miles in 92 minutes. In a drysuit? > Aircraft are not buoyant > in air either. Hopefully not. Who would recover them from space, in case the engine stalled. Matthias > Hopefully not. Who would recover them from space, in case the engine > stalled. Engines don't stall -- wings stall... Engines quit... The purpose of the propeller is to keep the pilot cool... If you don't believe that, just watch how the pilot starts to sweat when the propeller stops turning... SignatureSee NNTP header field "X-Real-Email-Address" to reply by email. > dwee...@gmail.com wrote: > > . I've done 3 miles in 92 minutes. > > In a drysuit? In a Speedo and goggles. >>>> Consider why you could not do a 500 yard swim. >>> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Matthias "There are far more broken planes in the sea than broken submarines in the sky" >> I can't swim 500m, or even 100m, in fresh water or in choppy seas >> without any equipment, because my natural buoyancy is lousy and I have >> to spend too much effort keeping my head above the water. Lots of people who are negatively buoyant swim quite well. In fact, most of the best swimmers are negatively buoyant. You can't swim because you choose not to learn. Lee > For many years, I've been snorkelling and diving without scuba up to > ~5 meters. Now I am thinking of getting some kind of beginner's diving [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > snorkel and fins (can do it easily :)). Which ones are correct ? > Thanks. The risks and knowledge requirements for shallow water scuba diving are exactly the same as the risks and knowledge requirements for deeper recreational diving, at least up to about 30 meters. You need the same training and certification for both. There are some basic training requirements share by all certification agencies. There are probably some different requirements depending on the agency you choose for your training and still others imposed by the shop or individual that provides the training. More us usually better, up to a point. To be honest, I'm a bit concerned about someone that can't swim 500 yards without equipment, that wants to scuba dive. My personal opinion is that comfort in the water is a prerequisite to diving and that being able to swim competently is necessary for what I'd call comfortable. Not everyone agrees. There are several certification agencies around the world. NAUI, PADI and SSI tend to be available all over the world. BSAC, CMAS and YMCA tend to be more popular in some parts of the world. There are probably others I've forgotten to mention. Any of them will be recognized pretty much anywhere you'll dive. The instructor tends to be more important than the agency. Talk to some in your area and get their input on requirements, etc. Lee <snip> http://grumman581.googlepages.com/scuba-certification SignatureSee NNTP header field "X-Real-Email-Address" to reply by email. >I got totally confused about >the prerequisites: some websites say it is 500 yards swim w/out any >equipment (I can't do that), bot others say it is 300 meters swim with >snorkel and fins (can do it easily :)). Which ones are correct ? >Thanks. When I did the SSI course a couple of years ago, the swim requirement was 200 yards (might have been 300... ) in the pool, no gear, not timed. I could do that, but just barely. What I couldn't do was the second part of the test: ten minutes treading water. So I practiced, and passed the test later in on the course. It took a little effort, but it was worth it. I'm a lousy swimmer. Clumsy. Fresh water-- the pool-- is less buoyant and I'm so skinny I don't float. I don't like swimming in fresh water, I don't dive in fresh water, so the pool test was kind of an acid test for me. It was the only part of scuba instruction I didn't enjoy. > For many years, I've been snorkelling and diving without scuba up to > ~5 meters. Now I am thinking of getting some kind of beginner's diving > certificate, for very basic 10-15m scuba dives. What kind of courses, > and sertificate, would you recommend ? The entry level training is the same no matter how deep you go. The primary hazards of diving are greatest in the top 20 feet of the water column, where the pressure gradient is highest. > the prerequisites: some websites say it is 500 yards swim w/out any > equipment (I can't do that), If you can't, what are you doing snorkeling? If you can't swim, you don't belong anywhere around water. If you can't manage 500 yards, even just sculling on your back, then you should limit your recreation to golf or checkers. >> the prerequisites: some websites say it is 500 yards swim w/out any >> equipment (I can't do that), [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > even just sculling on your back, then you should limit your recreation > to golf or checkers. I thought I was a hardnosed on water skills. You're the man. Do you have a real name, or even a reasonable made up one we can call you? > >> the prerequisites: some websites say it is 500 yards swim w/out any > >> equipment (I can't do that), [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Do you have a real name, or even a reasonable made up one we can call you? I'm sure he does. In fact, the rest of us all know it and you're the only one in the dark as usual. Still, what's unreasonable about calling him Dweeb? > If you can't swim, you don't belong anywhere around water. Oops. I can not swim a stroke. I have been diving for eleven years. Should I stop now ? David Edmonton, Alberta >> If you can't swim, you don't belong anywhere around water. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > David > Edmonton, Alberta no but don't have me as your buddy. Do you dive around Edmonton? My Aunt and Uncle had a house up at one of the lakes "Thunder" iirc but when I went snorkelling there was not much to see. The fishing was great however > no but don't have me as your buddy. No worries. > Do you dive around Edmonton? Yes. > My Aunt and Uncle had a house up at one of > the lakes "Thunder" iirc but when I went snorkelling there was not much to > see. The fishing was great however I do not know of a lake named Thunder. I will look tommorrow, and see if I can locate it. There are a few lakes we dive here in Alberta, primarily in the National Parks, Jasper and Banff. Oh. By the way, I have not only seen Popeye's truck in photos, but have stood on the running board several times and had a tour. David Edmonton, Alberta >> no but don't have me as your buddy. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > I do not know of a lake named Thunder. That's what I remember it was called but it was 20 years ago. Since that it has been visits in our summer so it was bloody cold in Aspen Drive > I will look tommorrow, and see if I can locate it. > There are a few lakes we dive here in Alberta, primarily in the National [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > on > the running board several times and had a tour. cool maybe you can post some identifying photos Popeye can't/won't >>> no but don't have me as your buddy. >> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > cool maybe you can post some identifying photos Popeye can't/won't I did today. Signature-- A skilled, armed man lives on a plane of security and contentment different from that of others. The man who cannot cut it, envies, fears and sometimes hates the man who can. -Cooper Popeye/ www.finalprotectivefire.com >>>> no but don't have me as your buddy. >>> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > I did today. did you so the link is where? You know i am slow all I see is bridges when you claim to have posted identifying photos of your truck. I have the colour it is blue and white, is that right? >>>>> no but don't have me as your buddy. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > did you so the link is where? You know i am slow Yes. Veeerrryyy stupid, too. > all I see is bridges when you claim to have posted identifying photos of > your truck. I never said -anything- about "identifying" photos. Even if there are several. That's just another porkie pie you'll have to snip. > I have the colour it is blue and white, is that right? Sort of. STUPID. Signature-- A skilled, armed man lives on a plane of security and contentment different from that of others. The man who cannot cut it, envies, fears and sometimes hates the man who can. -Cooper Popeye/ www.finalprotectivefire.com >>>>>> no but don't have me as your buddy. >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > I never said -anything- about "identifying" photos. off course you would never supply them w.nker >>>>>>> no but don't have me as your buddy. >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > w.nker I did. I didn't -say- I did. STUPID, STUPID, STUPID. Here's me supplying you with EVERYTHING you need- http://deadsmall.com/3K2 ** What was the date on that, Futile Dave? Seems like about a YEAR ago. And you just chiseled DAN out of $500, you cheap bastard. Signature-- A skilled, armed man lives on a plane of security and contentment different from that of others. The man who cannot cut it, envies, fears and sometimes hates the man who can. -Cooper Popeye/ www.finalprotectivefire.com ** FUTILE DAVID FRANK, kennybenny, and other STUPID motherf..kers: Place the CURSOR ARROW THINGY ON THE bbblllluuuueeeee llleeeetttttttterrrrs and LEFT CLICK. And SHAZAM!!!!!!, a REAL, LIVE CITE will MAGICALLY APPEAR!!!!!!!!!! Contrary to Team Futile policy, cites -do-, in fact, exist. >>>>>>>> no but don't have me as your buddy. >>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > > Seems like about a YEAR ago. love those Alaskan railroads Moron >>>>>>>>> no but don't have me as your buddy. >>>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > > Moron Everybody else uses that link and finds the truck pictures. Wait- I forgot how f.ck-STUPID you are- You do realize that those are folders, some with -hundreds- <pedal! Cathy, pedal!> of pictures, right? Not that it makes any difference, but you understand that it's not just, like, 8 or 9 single pictures, right? Do you need any more written instructions on how to click with a mouse? I notice you keep trimming them. Signature-- A skilled, armed man lives on a plane of security and contentment different from that of others. The man who cannot cut it, envies, fears and sometimes hates the man who can. -Cooper Popeye/ www.finalprotectivefire.com > off course you would never supply them http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where%27s_Wally%3F No identifying info is visible in the lastest photo of his truck (yes, it is in the photo with the bridge, just look closely)... I have found photos on his site where you could make out the license plate number, company name, and cab number from other parts of the truck... You might need to download the photos and enlarge them or perhaps adjust the image properties a bit to see all the information, depending upon how good your eyesight is... SignatureSee NNTP header field "X-Real-Email-Address" to reply by email. dechucka wrote: Nothing anybody's interested in reading. It's just possible that you are considered such an incredible flake and obsessive person that nobody really wants you to have actual knowledge of who their employer is. I'm not sure, of course, but personally, I would not trust you not to abuse the information with possible consequences to a job that I'm really quite happy doing. It's not Popeye that's suspect. It's you. Everybody in this list, from those who like Popeye, to those that don't, knows who he is, what he does for a living and, in most cases, who he works for. You don't. You ought to wonder why. The rest of us know. > dechucka wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > You don't. You ought to wonder why. The rest of us know. I don't care but it is fun to watch Popeye twist and turn and lie >> dechucka wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > I don't care but it is fun to watch Popeye twist and turn and lie After watching you Rhumba across the CPR thread, only a Futile John Francis spineless, lying jellyfish acolyte could say that with a straight face. Maybe Grumman will trim the bridge picture down to the truck so you can see it. Damn, are you stupid. Signature-- A skilled, armed man lives on a plane of security and contentment different from that of others. The man who cannot cut it, envies, fears and sometimes hates the man who can. -Cooper Popeye/ www.finalprotectivefire.com > After watching you Rhumba across the CPR thread, only a Futile John > Francis spineless, lying jellyfish acolyte could say that with a straight [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Damn, are you stupid. Some people claim that it is not polite to make fun of the mentally impaired / visually challenged... http://i26.tinypic.com/scub8h.jpg SignatureSee NNTP header field "X-Real-Email-Address" to reply by email. > Maybe Grumman will trim the bridge picture down to the truck so you can > see it. Here's a better one for him... http://tinypic.com/flek.php?f=opcizk&s=2 SignatureSee NNTP header field "X-Real-Email-Address" to reply by email. >> Maybe Grumman will trim the bridge picture down to the truck so you can >> see it. > > Here's a better one for him... > > http://tinypic.com/flek.php?f=opcizk&s=2 You have to give him directions each time on how to click on the URL. That pic is sweet, by the way. :-) ================================ > Anyhow the attack by HH is just as stupid as your threads attacking people I'm not the one that keeps bringing up the truck, for over a year now. I'm not the one that's too STUPID, STUPID, STUPID to work a URL. I'm not the one that whined and cried for someone, -anyone-, to provide them with a URL that they were TOO STUPID, STUPID, STUPID to use anyway, and then called everybody a liar to cover his own PARAMOUNT STUPIDITY. I'm not the one, who, now that the correct URLs have been provide directly, is SO FUCKIN RETARDED he can't see a 75 ft long, 35,000 lb vehicle -right- in front of his hebetating face. I'm not the one that is TOO LAZY and TOO f.ck-WITTED to provide cites that he chimps about over and over, so that two fine charities would get $1000. I'm not the one who runs around leg-humping in other threads to cover his -abject- humiliation. That would all be Futile David Frank of Team Futile. I'm not the a.shole buddy that scurried and shanked you when he could have -easily- helped- That's your Godhead Futile John Francis, the spineless, quivering squid who's a.s you keep your nose up. Who -I- am, is the guy with the spine and integrity to bet a THOUSAND DOLLARS on my word. $1000 on Team 3. The bet stands, while you and Johnny Boy do the Usenet Electric Slide Scurry, and the archives, as they always do, back me 100% YOUR LORD AND MASTER. > "Wm. David Maddin" <sojournr@telus.net> wrote in message >> By the way, I have not only seen Popeye's truck in photos... > cool maybe you can post some identifying photos Popeye can't/won't What sort of identifiers are you looking for ? David Edmonton, Alberta > What sort of identifiers are you looking for ? Apparently license plate number, trucking company, and cab number is not good enough for him since those can be determined from some of the photos on the site... SignatureSee NNTP header field "X-Real-Email-Address" to reply by email. >> What sort of identifiers are you looking for ? > > Apparently license plate number, trucking company, and cab number is not > good enough for him since those can be determined from some of the photos > on the site... He can't even click the links for the trimmed pics you did for him. It's pretty stunning. Signature-- A skilled, armed man lives on a plane of security and contentment different from that of others. The man who cannot cut it, envies, fears and sometimes hates the man who can. -Cooper Popeye/ www.finalprotectivefire.com > He can't even click the links for the trimmed pics you did for him. > > It's pretty stunning. I wonder if he will know what it is as it runs over him? http://tinypic.com/flek.php?f=2qnm4o9&s=2 or http://i30.tinypic.com/14ift5y.jpg Got a question for you... Why does your truck only have a tow hook on one side instead of on both sides of the front bumper? SignatureSee NNTP header field "X-Real-Email-Address" to reply by email. >> He can't even click the links for the trimmed pics you did for him. >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Got a question for you... Why does your truck only have a tow hook on one > side instead of on both sides of the front bumper? It comes with two hooks and two holes in the bumper. The hooks stow on a little rack on the left frame under the hood, and insert w/ clevis pins. When I got the truck, new, one was out, and one was racked, and thus it stayed. I never checked, but I get the impression that they get delivered that way. Signature-- A skilled, armed man lives on a plane of security and contentment different from that of others. The man who cannot cut it, envies, fears and sometimes hates the man who can. -Cooper Popeye/ www.finalprotectivefire.com > Apparently license plate number, trucking company, and cab number is not > good enough for him since those can be determined from some of the photos > on the site... Well, with all that information offered, I guess he wants what is left over. Unfortunately, I did not notice the G.V.W. David Edmonton, Alberta > Well, with all that information offered, I guess he wants what is left > over. > > Unfortunately, I did not notice the G.V.W. Well, I looked at the various photos and no matter how much I enhanced the photos, I could not make that out... Damn, looks like Doug must be hiding something... <snicker> Come on, Doug... Post a photo with your GVW for Chuckie... Obviously that is the only piece of identifying information that is still missing... I fail to see how it would be useful for him, but considering the fact that he spends his life upside down (i.e. in the southern hemisphere), maybe it makes sense to *him*... SignatureSee NNTP header field "X-Real-Email-Address" to reply by email. > Well, I looked at the various photos and no matter how much I enhanced the > photos, I could not make that out... Damn, looks like Doug must be hiding > something... <snicker> That sneaky bastard. David Edmonton, Alberta >> What sort of identifiers are you looking for ? He's got something going with another poster that wants to make trouble for me at the border. He claims I've offered it up, although I never have as he states, and even so, it's been in plain sight for going on a year. :-) > Apparently license plate number, trucking company, and cab number is not > good enough for him since those can be determined from some of the photos > on the site... The grill pics are hysterical. Signature-- A skilled, armed man lives on a plane of security and contentment different from that of others. The man who cannot cut it, envies, fears and sometimes hates the man who can. -Cooper Popeye/ www.finalprotectivefire.com > The grill pics are hysterical. Quite frankly, I don't see how he could have missed a photo like this: http://i29.tinypic.com/2rz759f.jpg SignatureSee NNTP header field "X-Real-Email-Address" to reply by email. >> The grill pics are hysterical. > > Quite frankly, I don't see how he could have missed a photo like this: > > http://i29.tinypic.com/2rz759f.jpg <as people all over usenet are putting their own eyes out> Those hyperlinks just boot his butt. I've narrowed it down- If you take into account how stupid he is, The only logical assumption is that he's blind, or has no index fingers. Signature-- A skilled, armed man lives on a plane of security and contentment different from that of others. The man who cannot cut it, envies, fears and sometimes hates the man who can. -Cooper Popeye/ www.finalprotectivefire.com In article <pan.2008.05.05.10.07.56.812000@grumman581-usenet-2008-gmail- com>, grumman581+usenet-2008@gmail.com says... > > The grill pics are hysterical. > > Quite frankly, I don't see how he could have missed a photo like this: > > http://i29.tinypic.com/2rz759f.jpg and thus you win "The Laugh of the Day Award" > > The grill pics are hysterical. > > Quite frankly, I don't see how he could have missed a photo like this: > > http://i29.tinypic.com/2rz759f.jpg Now, if Doug would just bend over, upchuck could get the thrills he has been begging for. >> > The grill pics are hysterical. >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > been > begging for. and ruin your fun? No thankyou I will leave him ( and all males alone ) you 2 keep enjoying yourselves >> no but don't have me as your buddy. > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > on > the running board several times and had a tour. When it rains, it pours. :-) Signature-- A skilled, armed man lives on a plane of security and contentment different from that of others. The man who cannot cut it, envies, fears and sometimes hates the man who can. -Cooper Popeye/ www.finalprotectivefire.com >>> no but don't have me as your buddy. >> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > When it rains, it pours. :-) not here unfortunately > dwee...@gmail.com wrote: > Oops. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Should I stop now ? Only if you're incapable of learning to swim. If you're capable, then do so. Actually, there's really no excuse in the modern world for an able bodied person not being able to swim. > Only if you're incapable of learning to swim. No, I am probably capable. > If you're capable, then > do so. Perhaps. > Actually, there's really no excuse in the modern world for an able > bodied person not being able to swim. Sure there is. I have not taken the time to learn. So far, have not had the need. David Edmonton, Alberta >> Actually, there's really no excuse in the modern world for an able >> bodied person not being able to swim. > > Sure there is. > I have not taken the time to learn. > So far, have not had the need. If you can't swim, you only have the need once. Then it's too late. Lee > If you can't swim, you only have the need once. Then it's too late. I haven't learned how to fly, yet I still ride in airplanes. > I haven't learned how to fly, yet I still ride in airplanes. People don't usually fall out of aircraft... In fact, it takes quite a bit of effort to fall out of a commercial aircraft at altitude... The same cannot be said for boats... SignatureSee NNTP header field "X-Real-Email-Address" to reply by email. > People don't usually fall out of aircraft... Well, once or twice. Usually I jump. Close to two hundred times now. David Edmonton, Alberta > Sure there is. > I have not taken the time to learn. > So far, have not had the need. One day all that snow will melt and then you'll change your tune. > One day all that snow will melt and then you'll change your tune. When I see it creeping over the coasts I'll don my dry suit, and ride the wave for as long as I can. David Edmonton, Alberta On May 1, 10:23 pm, dwee...@gmail.com wrote: > Only if you're incapable of learning to swim. If you're capable, then > do so. > Actually, there's really no excuse in the modern world for an able > bodied person not being able to swim. Maybe. Practically, not all of us have the easiest access to bodies of water large enough for swimming. I had Grandpa's swimming pool and the Pacific Ocean close at hand when I was growing up, and a mom who paid for me to take classes at the Y. On the other hand, were I born in an landlocked inner-city ghetto to an impoverished broken family, my road to learning how to swim would have been far more challenging and perhaps not worth the effort when balanced against other necessities of daily living. Statistics hit the news yesterday on this very subject. "How come? Black and Latino kids "are six times more likely to be part of a family in which neither parent nor child can swim," according to the study commissioned by USA Swimming. In January and February, the University of Memphis interviewed 1,772 children ages 6 to 16 in six U.S. metropolitan areas. Two-thirds were black or Latino. Non- swimmers: 58% of blacks, 56% of Latinos and 31% of whites." -- USA Today On May 1, 10:23 pm, dwee...@gmail.com wrote: > Only if you're incapable of learning to swim. If you're capable, then > do so. > Actually, there's really no excuse in the modern world for an able > bodied person not being able to swim. Maybe. Practically, not all of us have the easiest access to bodies of water large enough for swimming. I had Grandpa's swimming pool and the Pacific Ocean close at hand when I was growing up, and a mom who paid for me to take classes at the Y. On the other hand, were I born in an landlocked inner-city ghetto to an impoverished broken family, my road to learning how to swim would have been far more challenging and perhaps not worth the effort when balanced against other necessities of daily living. Statistics hit the news yesterday on this very subject. "How come? Black and Latino kids "are six times more likely to be part of a family in which neither parent nor child can swim," according to the study commissioned by USA Swimming. In January and February, the University of Memphis interviewed 1,772 children ages 6 to 16 in six U.S. metropolitan areas. Two-thirds were black or Latino. Non- swimmers: 58% of blacks, 56% of Latinos and 31% of whites." -- USA Today In my day, parents ditched you at Red Cross swimming lessons at the municipal pool. Skiing during the winter. I had six years of both. Signature-- A skilled, armed man lives on a plane of security and contentment different from that of others. The man who cannot cut it, envies, fears and sometimes hates the man who can. -Cooper Popeye/ www.finalprotectivefire.com > In my day, parents ditched you at Red Cross swimming lessons at the > municipal pool. > > Skiing during the winter. > > I had six years of both. f.cking racist... On May 2, 1:58 pm, "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick" <Pop...@finalprotectivefire.com> wrote: > Skiing during the winter. > > I had six years of both. There you go. I can't ski. If I'm wrong about global warming and we instead have a new ice age, I'm screwed. > In my day, parents ditched you at Red Cross swimming lessons at the > municipal pool. In my day, your father would throw you overboard when you were out fishing... If you came up dog paddling, you were good... If you didn't... Well, I guess he just figured he could make another one and hopefully the next time around he would get the swimming genes right... SignatureSee NNTP header field "X-Real-Email-Address" to reply by email. >> In my day, parents ditched you at Red Cross swimming lessons at the >> municipal pool. > > In my day, your father would throw you overboard when you were out > fishing... If you came up dog paddling, you were good... If you didn't... he called you berley > he called you berley I had to look up that term... Seems it's an Aussie term that translates into "chum" around here... And they *claim* that we speak the same language... SignatureSee NNTP header field "X-Real-Email-Address" to reply by email. On May 2, 4:58 pm, "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick" <Pop...@finalprotectivefire.com> wrote: > On the other hand, were I born > in an landlocked inner-city ghetto to an impoverished broken family, > my road to learning how to swim would have been far more challenging > and perhaps not worth the effort when balanced against other > necessities of daily living. It's also a pretty safe bet you wouldn't be able to afford dive gear, boats, or waterfront property. While it's still deplorable that such people don't know how to swim, they're really not the cohort of interest here, are they? On May 3, 8:03 am, dwee...@gmail.com wrote: > On May 2, 4:58 pm, "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick" > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > they're really not the cohort > of interest here, are they? Are you accusing me of straying off-topic? IIRC, you didn't limit your broad claim to a "cohort of interest", merely to able-bodied people in general: > Actually, there's really no excuse in the modern world for an able > bodied person not being able to swim. Besides, quite a few people can't afford waterfront property, unless you count a pond in the midwest. I wasn't raised in an affluent household with dive gear, boats, or waterfront property, so I'm not sure how I learned to swim. It's quite plausible that even some of the non-swimmers raised in dire poverty might someday be able to afford dive gear, or at least afford the cost of rental gear. > Are you accusing me of straying off-topic? IIRC, you didn't limit > your broad claim to a "cohort of interest", merely to able-bodied > people in general: Not at all, merely pointing out that a) it's more a matter of choice for the poor in the modern welfare state, and b) anyone with access to diving opportunities can't even begin to offer this excuse. > Besides, quite a few people can't afford waterfront property, unless > you count a pond in the midwest. I wasn't raised in an affluent > household with dive gear, boats, or waterfront property, so I'm not > sure how I learned to swim. You were raised in a household well off enough for you to achieve what you have today. > It's quite plausible that even some of > the non-swimmers raised in dire poverty might someday be able to > afford dive gear, or at least afford the cost of rental gear. Then they can also manage access to swim lessons. On May 3, 9:52 am, dwee...@gmail.com wrote: > Not at all, merely pointing out that a) it's more a matter of choice > for the poor in the modern welfare state, and b) anyone with access > to diving opportunities can't even begin to offer this excuse. Too many variables influence "choice" at certain income levels, but I'll grant you (b). Practically, I can't even begin to understand why someone would want to dive if they weren't completely comfortable in the water. It's like learning to run without knowing how to crawl. I only got into diving because I've always loved being in water and I had already exhausted just about every opportunity for enjoying it on the surface, just like a baby finally learns to stand up when he's sick of bruising his knees. If I were floating in deep water and knew the only thing keeping from drowning was the air in my BC, I'd bug out. > Statistics hit the news yesterday on this very subject. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > metropolitan areas. Two-thirds were black or Latino. Non- swimmers: 58% of > blacks, 56% of Latinos and 31% of whites." -- USA Today That just backs up what I noticed when I was in Navy boot came all those years ago... I don't remember us having any Hispanics in our company when going through boot, but I do remember us having a few blacks in there and the majority of them did not know how to swim... One could argue that perhaps the Navy and Marine Corp are not the service choices that one should make if they do not know how to swim... SignatureSee NNTP header field "X-Real-Email-Address" to reply by email. > On the other hand, were I born > in an landlocked inner-city ghetto to an impoverished broken family, > my road to learning how to swim would have been far more challenging > and perhaps not worth the effort when balanced against other > necessities of daily living. My metropolitan area has the second highest poverty rates of any major US city. The city and the Y provide subsidies for at their pools for entry and for swim lessons. One factor driving the statistics you cited is that parents don't see swimming as a necessary life skill. Almost every species of land animal can swim if it has to - that should be a clue for them. On May 3, 7:40 am, dwee...@gmail.com wrote: > > On the other hand, were I born > > in an landlocked inner-city ghetto to an impoverished broken family, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > The city and the Y provide subsidies for at their pools for entry and > for swim lessons. Subsidies amount to welfare. I'm surprised that you support them. If swimming is so important, clearly the government needs to mandate training as it mandates instruction in other areas. Clearly you'd support that as well. > One factor driving the statistics you cited is that parents don't see > swimming as a necessary life skill. Nope. Learning how to dodge bullets takes precedence in some locales, especially where the only body of water is a murky duck pond about 6 inches deep. > Almost every species of land animal can swim if it has to - that > should be a clue for them. Maybe they presume they can do the same, if they have to. Many can. > If swimming is so important, clearly the government needs to mandate > training as it mandates instruction in other areas. Clearly you'd support > that as well. As a matter of fact, various universities over the years have required that their students have the ability to swim... Grace's friend over in Diamond Bar that we visited in 1997 fell into her pool a couple of weeks after we left and drowned... She didn't know how to swim... Personally, I question the logic of having a swimming pool if you don't know how to swim... Or at least the logic of getting close enough to it that you could fall into it... SignatureSee NNTP header field "X-Real-Email-Address" to reply by email. > Subsidies amount to welfare. I'm surprised that you support them. There is no endorsement, only acknowledgement of their existence. > If swimming is so important, clearly the government needs to mandate > training as it mandates instruction in other areas. Clearly you'd > support that as well. The high school where I currently live, when my mother attended (I grew up in a neighboring city) required students to pass a swim test to graduate, and I endorse that. My high school required passing CPR training, which I also endorse. Certainly, if schools can make students memorize the presidents in order, they can make them learn to swim and perform CPR. > Nope. Learning how to dodge bullets takes precedence in some locales, > especially where the only body of water is a murky duck pond about 6 > inches deep. One place to go to gain cover from gunfire is the sewers, which every big city has. > Maybe they presume they can do the same, if they have to. Many can. The number of annual drowning deaths would seem to indicate otherwise. On May 3, 9:58 am, dwee...@gmail.com wrote: > The high school where I currently live, when my mother attended (I > grew up in a neighboring city) required students to pass a swim test > to graduate, and I endorse that. My high school required passing CPR > training, which I also endorse. Certainly, if schools can make > students memorize the presidents in order, they can make them learn to > swim and perform CPR. Not to mention many of the skills taught in mandatory PE classes that have little bearing on real life. Swimming is much more practical than hitting balls with bats or throwing balls in hoops, especially when kids get all the hand-eye coordination they need nowadays from video games. Of course you'd need to fund swimming pools or access to them for high schools that don't already have them. My high school didn't. > > Nope. Learning how to dodge bullets takes precedence in some locales, > > especially where the only body of water is a murky duck pond about 6 > > inches deep. > > One place to go to gain cover from gunfire is the sewers, which every > big city has. Somehow I think that might turn most people off swimming for good. Not you, o |
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