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Scuba Forum / General / May 2008Lost A Good One
He was a father and husband. He knew me as a scuba friend. But I'll go to his viewing as a fellow Firefighter. He was also in the military. 50 yrs old and died from an MI while he was scuba diving. We lost a good one. On Apr 8, 2:50 am, hierophantf...@hotmail.com wrote: > He was a father and husband. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > We lost a good one. I'm sorry for your loss, hiero. gc > On Apr 8, 2:50 am, hierophantf...@hotmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > gc Hey George, thanks. You would have liked him. At 6' 5", 300 lbs, he was a hellofa big guy. His kindness was just as big as he was. He died on a scuba trip doing what we all love to do. He was also a Firefighter Captain and so our group will honor him as such. I feel for his wife and his children. :-( On Apr 8, 4:42 am, hierophantf...@hotmail.com wrote: > > On Apr 8, 2:50 am, hierophantf...@hotmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I too am sorry about his passing. What do you mean by MI while diving? On Apr 8, 8:22 am, step...@stephenweir.com wrote: > On Apr 8, 4:42 am, hierophantf...@hotmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > I too am sorry about his passing. What do you mean by MI while diving? Myocardial infarction? > On Apr 8, 8:22 am, step...@stephenweir.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Yes. On Apr 8, 11:22 am, step...@stephenweir.com wrote: > On Apr 8, 4:42 am, hierophantf...@hotmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > - Show quoted text - A heart attack. On Ap > I too am sorry about his passing. What do you mean by MI while diving? Myocardial Infarction.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myocardial_infarction - commonly known as a Heart Attack. Having had several diver friends die of this, I too am sorry about his passing. The only thing you can do is preventative measures. http://familydoctor.org/online/famdocen/home/common/heartdisease/basics/291.html In closing, my deepest sympathy to his friends and family. A fellow Diver On Apr 10, 7:24 pm, cheley_bonstel...@live.com wrote: > On Ap > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > A fellow Diver That is very kind of you to say so. Thank you very much. His viewing was huge. They blocked off the one main street with fire engines. The local police attended also, since in small towns like this, the police and the firefighters work very closely... if not so in all towns - large and small. Makes ya think of your own mortality. I'm certainly not as young or as fit as I used to be. But I suppose if I die, I'll not be concerned about anything except heaven and hell. And the spouse / the kids will be left to argue about my property with other relatives who might feel they need a token. LOL > He was a father and husband. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > We lost a good one. sorry to hear of the loss of your mate. Don't know about in the US but here fire-fighters ( proper ones ) have high chance of an early MI or chronic disease even though they are fit. > Don't know about in the US but here fire-fighters ( proper ones ) have high > chance of an early MI or chronic disease even though they are fit. All that second-hand smoke can't be too healthy. On Apr 8, 2:51 pm, "dechucka" <dechu...@vomithotmail.com> wrote: > Don't know about in the US but here fire-fighters ( proper ones ) have > high > chance of an early MI or chronic disease even though they are fit. =All that second-hand smoke can't be too healthy. It isn't which is why when exposed to smoke the proper fire-fighters now use CABA > On Apr 8, 2:51 pm, "dechucka" <dechu...@vomithotmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > It isn't which is why when exposed to smoke the proper fire-fighters now use > CABA What is CABA? and What is a "proper" firefighter? >> On Apr 8, 2:51 pm, "dechucka" <dechu...@vomithotmail.com> wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> use CABA > What is CABA? Compressed Air Breathing Appuratus > and > What is a "proper" firefighter? those who do it for a living or at least get paid to do it. To be fair CABA has been given to some RFS ( rural fire service ie volunteers not proper fire-fighters ) units who have village protection roles or attend alot of MVA because of hazardous loads on trucks and because the gases given of by the plastics in burning cars are pretty awful >>>On Apr 8, 2:51 pm, "dechucka" <dechu...@vomithotmail.com> wrote: >>> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > roles or attend alot of MVA because of hazardous loads on trucks and because > the gases given of by the plastics in burning cars are pretty awful OK thanks for the clarification. In the US, the systems are known as SCBA (Self Contained Breathing Apparatus)....same as SCUBA without the "U". Guess its an Ozzi thing but it sounds to me that if paid firefighters are known as "proper", the volunteers would be "improper". I spent 27 years in the volunteer fire service and retired as Asst Chief of my department. We went through virtually the same training as the paid (known as "career" firefighters). I agree with you about the synthetic stuff in cars. Can put off some VERY nasty combustion byproducts. Gotta be REAL careful around those impact collapsible bumpers also. The shock absorbers in some have been known to heat up, explode, and propel the metal bumper into a firefighter's knees. You gotta watch out for dumpster fires too. They can put off some pretty nasty smoke. Our policy was to use SCBA on every fire except brush (grass, woodlands, etc). Just too impractical to wear SCBA's on those types of fires. >>>>On Apr 8, 2:51 pm, "dechucka" <dechu...@vomithotmail.com> wrote: >>>> [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > Guess its an Ozzi thing but it sounds to me that if paid firefighters are > known as "proper", the volunteers would be "improper". Bit of an "in" joke between the "townies" and us > I spent 27 years in the volunteer fire service and retired as Asst Chief > of my department. We went through virtually the same training as the paid > (known as "career" firefighters). Congratulations, that is great service. Here we have 3 types of fireman :- Career who are full time, Retained who are available on call and get paid for being on call and must attend when called who receive the same training as career officers ( mainly found in the larger villages ) and the RFS who are volunteers; training for us can vary from Bush/Grasslands firefighting training ( any building fire is fought defensively ie from the outside ) to Village Firefighting and CABA training where structure fires can be fought offensively. Plus there is all type of leader training, specialist aviation training etc. Probably when a RFS member has done all possible training he is close to NSW Fire Service standards except in the area of Hazmat ( Hazmat is the proper fire-fighters job and we will call them anytime we suspect such a situation). The RFS Brigades can vary form a group of people with trailer mounted pumps who just put out grass fires among the immediate community ( mainly Western NSW ) to Brigades like mine who have village protection, forest protection responsibilities and have a section of Highway that we respond to calls on and go to out of area when we can. When it comes to my village there is probably not a great hope if a structure fire takes hold, we don't have town water so once our 4400 l of water is put on, 3-4 min with the big hoses and good pressure, we are praying the next crew turn up as it is back to the station for refill if we can't draught from another water source > I agree with you about the synthetic stuff in cars. Can put off some VERY > nasty combustion byproducts. Gotta be REAL careful around those impact > collapsible bumpers also. The shock absorbers in some have been known to > heat up, explode, and propel the metal bumper into a firefighter's knees. Yes yes and yes. Collapsing suspensions on B-double trucks is another interesting experience to watch out for > You gotta watch out for dumpster fires too. They can put off some pretty > nasty smoke. Our policy was to use SCBA on every fire except brush > (grass, woodlands, etc). Just too impractical to wear SCBA's on those > types of fires. As I RFS brigades with such responsibilities are now being equipped. Good bit of forest smoke is good for your lungs well until the flames turn blue/green/purple because some bastard has dumped a whole lot of farm chemical or thinners etc in the bush >>OK thanks for the clarification. >>In the US, the systems are known as SCBA (Self Contained Breathing [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Bit of an "in" joke between the "townies" and us Understand. There is sometimes a bit of friction between the volunteer and career firefighters around here (sometimes). In years past, many of the volunteers were career guys who answered calls in their off time. Then the "Fair Labor and Standards Act" was passed which stipulated if a worker turned in anything over 171 hours, he/she must be compensated for it, even if they were volunteering on their own free time. This made an even bigger divide between the career and volunteers. >>I spent 27 years in the volunteer fire service and retired as Asst Chief >>of my department. We went through virtually the same training as the paid >>(known as "career" firefighters). > > Congratulations, that is great service. Thank you. I still stop by the station every once in awhile. They keep trying to give me turn out gear and a radio to come back active. > Here we have 3 types of fireman :- Career who are full time, Retained who > are available on call and get paid for being on call and must attend when [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > good pressure, we are praying the next crew turn up as it is back to the > station for refill if we can't draught from another water source Interesting. We have a "combination" department. Career and volunteer. If the call comes in, whoever is covering duty is expected to respond and deal with it in the same way. If it is a structure fire, we go offensive or defensive at the direction of the OIC (Officer In Charge). We have a pretty good water system around here. Most hydrants supply 500-1000gpm and our trucks are equipped with 5" hose which amounts to basically an above ground water main. Occasionally, we have to truck water in to a scene. We will set up a tanker relay operation in that situation. We will set up "drop tanks" in those situations. The attack engine will draft water from the tank using the hard suction hose, as though it were parked next to a lake or pond or river. We will then run supply hoses 200-300 ft from the drop tank so trucks can pull up next to them and pump their water into the drop tank and return to the water source if necessary. The drop tanks will hold 2000-3000 gallons of water depending on size. If you get a good relay going, your attack engine will never run out of water. We will go offensive in the fire attack if the structural integrity looks OK. If the roof looks weak or there is heavy involvement in the attic area, we go defensive from the outside. If it looks like its a "room and contents" fire, we will often make an interior attack on that. The station I was with has two engines (1500gpm) and 1000 gallon tanker with a 1000 gpm pump, and 100+ft aerial ladder with a 1250gpm pump, a 4WD brush truck with 250 gallon tank and a 250gpm pump. We also have a mobile command post and an SUV as a car to run errands. > As I RFS brigades with such responsibilities are now being equipped. > > Good bit of forest smoke is good for your lungs well until the flames turn > blue/green/purple because some bastard has dumped a whole lot of farm > chemical or thinners etc in the bush A few years ago, I was at a structure fire where we were providing mutual aid to a fire company on the north side of the county. Within 10 minutes the OIC had gone "defensive". The guys on my team and myself were working an attack line on the back side of the house. I remember we were on this deck outside what used to be the kitchen area. The interior floor had already collapsed into the basement. I opened the line up with a semi-fog pattern and shot it into the basement. The fire darkened down so I shut my line down to evaluate. Suddenly the fire blew back up in my face. I had full protective gear on so it didn't hurt me but it did surprise me. I then poured the water on....probably 1000 or more gallons. Again, the fire returned but in strange greenish blue colors. The people that lived there were pretty closed mouth about what all they had in there and didn't want to talk to us. There HAD to have been some unusual accelerants involved for the fire to spread that quickly and be that hard to extinguish. >>>OK thanks for the clarification. >>>In the US, the systems are known as SCBA (Self Contained Breathing [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > if they were volunteering on their own free time. This made an even > bigger divide between the career and volunteers. There is no friction with us and the townie as we have so little to do with them. Even in the big Sydney and than the Canberra fires we didn't interact on the fireground. It may be different when town and RFS units excist in a town but I try and keep out of the politics. In fact the local townies came down to do a MVA/Hazmat excercise with us the Wedensday night before last so we arn't getting on to bad >>>I spent 27 years in the volunteer fire service and retired as Asst Chief >>>of my department. We went through virtually the same training as the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Thank you. I still stop by the station every once in awhile. They keep > trying to give me turn out gear and a radio to come back active. Our oldest active member is 75, still turns up to the pager call >> Here we have 3 types of fireman :- Career who are full time, Retained who >> are available on call and get paid for being on call and must attend when [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > brush truck with 250 gallon tank and a 250gpm pump. We also have a mobile > command post and an SUV as a car to run errands. So you are more a town unit? Where are you if you don't mind me asking, I'm in a on a property outside a small village ( general store, rural produce store, mill and school and 10 houses) between Sydney and Goulburn NSWs. Interesting that you have volunteers in the situation you described. In the town or rural urban interface ( the current catch words at the moment ) I really don't know how the brigades interact as we are such a village/bush/MVA brigade >> As I RFS brigades with such responsibilities are now being equipped. >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > unusual accelerants involved for the fire to spread that quickly and be > that hard to extinguish. That is scary. Do you suspect a brewing centre for drugs? Now, as I am on a roll I will bitch about the dangers of the new hybrid cars and LPG cars. You get called out and you have no bloody idea what is the situation is when you arrive and the dangers one must anticipate. To get back to the OP the NSW RFS has had I believe 8 deaths in the last years or so, 5 to heart attacks, 2 to widow maker trees and one MVA ( we have had some awful fire overruns and people burnt however ) so MI seems to be a common cause of death for a fire-fighter the world over > There is no friction with us and the townie as we have so little to do with > them. Even in the big Sydney and than the Canberra fires we didn't interact > on the fireground. It may be different when town and RFS units excist in a > town but I try and keep out of the politics. In fact the local townies came > down to do a MVA/Hazmat excercise with us the Wedensday night before last so > we arn't getting on to bad Its better now than it was (between career and volunteer). >>>Congratulations, that is great service. >> >>Thank you. I still stop by the station every once in awhile. They keep >>trying to give me turn out gear and a radio to come back active. > > Our oldest active member is 75, still turns up to the pager call I wouldn't mind still going out on calls but I got so damn tired of the pager going off 2-3 times a night for "fire alarms" (also known as bell jobs). I was working 12 hour days, getting up at 0530 and getting off at 1900 hrs. Get in bed around 2100, pager goes off at 2300, then again at 0100, and again at 0300. By the time you returned to the station, filled out the report, got back into bed, you were lucky if you got 2-3 hrs of sleep, and then I had to work 12 hours. That got old quick and it seemed as though no one cared.....as long as THEY didn't get woken up. I had put in my time. I retired and am drawing a small pension for my years. >>We will go offensive in the fire attack if the structural integrity looks >>OK. If the roof looks weak or there is heavy involvement in the attic [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > moment ) I really don't know how the brigades interact as we are such a > village/bush/MVA brigade Yes. We are more of an "urban" department. Relatively few of our calls were for forest or brush fires in our "first due" area. We backed other more rural departments up on brush and forest fires all the time, but our first due area was businesses, apartments, single family dwellings and such. Of course we would also deal with MVA's etc. >>The people that lived there were pretty closed mouth about what all they >>had in there and didn't want to talk to us. There HAD to have been some >>unusual accelerants involved for the fire to spread that quickly and be >>that hard to extinguish. > > That is scary. Do you suspect a brewing centre for drugs? That is what I suspected. I don't think the fire investigators ever proved anything but I know enough when I see strange fire behavior such as that, we are not dealing with normal household combustibles. > Now, as I am on a roll I will bitch about the dangers of the new hybrid cars > and LPG cars. You get called out and you have no bloody idea what is the > situation is when you arrive and the dangers one must anticipate. Never dealt with any of the hybrid cars as they had not come out when I was active. Not sure what extra precautions are needed with the gas/electric vehicles. I am certain the hydrogen fuel cell and LPG cars can be a bit tricky. I have no idea how they are designed. I have seen pictures of the effects of rail car BLEVE's and they are nothing to be trifled with. Biggest problem I remember were the old Volkswagon "Bugs". Some of them had the magnesium block engines and once those caught on fire, it was gone. Only thing effective was "purple K" and there was not a whole lot of that around. > To get back to the OP the NSW RFS has had I believe 8 deaths in the last > years or so, 5 to heart attacks, 2 to widow maker trees and one MVA ( we > have had some awful fire overruns and people burnt however ) so MI seems to > be a common cause of death for a fire-fighter the world over WE had a local firefighter that had an acute MI on the scene of a working structure fire. They performed CPR, did the defib on him and brought him back. I doubt seriously if he is back to duty though. This was within the past few months. >> There is no friction with us and the townie as we have so little to do >> with them. Even in the big Sydney and than the Canberra fires we didn't [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > as though no one cared.....as long as THEY didn't get woken up. I had put > in my time. I retired and am drawing a small pension for my years Seems you where between a volunteer and a retained fire-fighter by my definition. We had members in our area who got very badly burnt in a fire overrun and had to fight for commensuration, it SUCKED Our brigade doesn't do remote call fire alarms, none of our assets have them. The pager going off in the night is scary because you don't know wha you are facing apart from the info on the pager eg MVA 1km S from Maccas could mean anything and of course fire com also has bugger all info >>>We will go offensive in the fire attack if the structural integrity looks >>>OK. If the roof looks weak or there is heavy involvement in the attic [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > back. I doubt seriously if he is back to duty though. This was within > the past few months. >>>There is no friction with us and the townie as we have so little to do >>>with them. Even in the big Sydney and than the Canberra fires we didn't [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > you are facing apart from the info on the pager eg MVA 1km S from Maccas > could mean anything and of course fire com also has bugger all info Fire alarms are EVERYWHERE around here. Mostly business and industrial facilities but also schools and even some private homes. I am not including the homes equipped with smoke detectors which are many more. We have a college on the north side of the county where apparently the students are incapable of learning how to cook popcorn at 0200 without getting 3 engine companies, 2 ladder companies, an EMS unit, and a Battalion Chief out on a fire alarm. > Biggest problem I remember were the old Volkswagon "Bugs". Some of them > had the magnesium block engines and once those caught on fire, it was > gone. Only thing effective was "purple K" and there was not a whole lot > of that around. When I was in the Navy, the philosophy was that nearly any type of fire could be put out with sufficient amounts of water... Salt water, to be precise... I've never tried it on electrical fires and I highly suspect that it would not be conducive to your continued survival to put salt water on an electrical fire... I have used it to put out fuel oil based fires (diesel and gasoline) and have seen the technique necessary for its use on Class-D (magnesium, etc) fires...  SignatureSee NNTP header field "X-Real-Email-Address" to reply by email. On Apr 10, 12:29 am, Grumman-581 <grumman581+usenet-2...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Biggest problem I remember were the old Volkswagon "Bugs". Some of them > > had the magnesium block engines and once those caught on fire, it was [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > -- > See NNTP header field "X-Real-Email-Address" to reply by email. We refer to the NFPA 704 to ID hazardous materials. We can also phone Chem-tel or Chemtrec. We carry the ERG2000 book and if that book says no water, then no water. We might end up setting up a control zone, evacuating people who might be in the area and then just watching it burn until it burns itself out. On Wed, 09 Apr 2008 21:48:12 -0700, hierophantfish wrote: > We refer to the NFPA 704 to ID hazardous materials. We can also phone > Chem-tel or Chemtrec. We carry the ERG2000 book and if that book says no > water, then no water. We might end up setting up a control zone, > evacuating people who might be in the area and then just watching it burn > until it burns itself out. You've heard the saying, "When your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail", right? Well, when you have water at a basically unlimited supply, it becomes the extinguishing agent by default... Of course, one of the special technique for using water on Class-D fires is to use the water pressure to wash the offending object overboard... If it's still burning when it hits the bottom, no one is going to notice... <grin> Low velocity fog also works on Class-D fires... For fuel oil fires, a steady stream is bad... High velocity fog works good... http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Bunker/1658/ord/111.htm SignatureSee NNTP header field "X-Real-Email-Address" to reply by email. > We refer to the NFPA 704 to ID hazardous materials. We can also phone > Chem-tel or Chemtrec. We carry the ERG2000 book and if that book says > no water, then no water. We might end up setting up a control zone, > evacuating people who might be in the area and then just watching it > burn until it burns itself out. The ERG should be used for no longer than 15 minutes into the incident. Beyond that, you should be on the phone to Chemtrec, hopefully have an MSDS and some HazMat trained people on the scene or at least on the way. As Allen Brunacini, Fire Chief (ret) of Phoenix Az FD, said, "All fires go out eventually". > As Allen Brunacini, Fire Chief (ret) of Phoenix Az FD, said, "All fires go > out eventually". Perhaps, but sometimes they last for longer than most people are willing to wait around for them to go out... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_Mountain Estimated to have been burning for 6,000 years... SignatureSee NNTP header field "X-Real-Email-Address" to reply by email. >>As Allen Brunacini, Fire Chief (ret) of Phoenix Az FD, said, "All fires go >>out eventually". [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Estimated to have been burning for 6,000 years... There are exceptions to every rule. > There are exceptions to every rule. And a rather spectacular exception at that... I seem to remember that we have a couple of mine fires that have been burning for a relatively long time up in your neck of the woods... Nowhere in the magnitude of the one over in Austalia though... SignatureSee NNTP header field "X-Real-Email-Address" to reply by email. > hierophantf...@hotmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Beyond that, you should be on the phone to Chemtrec, hopefully have an > MSDS and some HazMat trained people on the scene or at least on the way. Excuse me kind sir, but please don't try to tell me how long I need to be doing whatever with whatever. The white hats in my company make those decisions. I take orders from them. And since you aren't one of my white hats, then.. > As Allen Brunacini, Fire Chief (ret) of Phoenix Az FD, said, "All fires > go out eventually". That's what I said above. Nice to put a quote to it. Not like I'll remember it but even so. On Apr 10, 9:00 am, nitespark <nitesp...@cox.net> wrote: > hierophantf...@hotmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Beyond that, you should be on the phone to Chemtrec, hopefully have an > MSDS and some HazMat trained people on the scene or at least on the way. =Excuse me kind sir, but please don't try to tell me how long I need to be doing whatever with whatever. The white hats in my company make those decisions. I take orders from them. And since you aren't one of my white hats, then.. Are white hats the bosses over there? I am a proud wearer of a white hat and the people with red helmets or white helmets with red stripes tell me what to do. Actually I am AF so can fight fires without direct supervision but do what I am told > <hierophantf...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > to do. Actually I am AF so can fight fires without direct supervision but > do what I am told Well here in my county, in my state the white hats are chiefs. It probably is different in various states here. Also, here where I live anyone with stripes on their helmets indicts they are not interior qualified, ie, they have not passed the test to go inside a burning building. The EMT (emergency medical tech) unit and the marine rescue unit of our FC is more my speed. I'm not crazy about burning buildings. :-) On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:37:52 -0700, hierophantfish wrote: > I'm not crazy about burning buildings. Then I guess you really wouldn't be that crazy about burning ships when the nearest land was hundreds of miles away... At least you don't have to worry about the overhead collapsing on you as readily as with house fires... SignatureSee NNTP header field "X-Real-Email-Address" to reply by email. On Apr 15, 9:51 pm, Grumman-581 <grumman581+usenet-2...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:37:52 -0700, hierophantfish wrote: > > I'm not crazy about burning buildings. > > Then I guess you really wouldn't be that crazy about burning ships when > the nearest land was hundreds of miles away... At least you don't have to > worry about the overhead collapsing on you as readily as with house fires... Heh ! I might want to reconsider and try to deal with a burning building before a burning ship. I think I'm allergic to sharks. On Apr 13, 8:09 pm, "dechucka" <dechu...@vomithotmail.com> wrote: > <hierophantf...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > to do. Actually I am AF so can fight fires without direct supervision but > do what I am told =Well here in my county, in my state the white hats are chiefs. It probably is different in various states here. Also, here where I live anyone with stripes on their helmets indicts they are not interior qualified, ie, they have not passed the test to go inside a burning building. The EMT (emergency medical tech) unit and the marine rescue unit of our FC is more my speed. I'm not crazy about burning buildings. :-) In NSW the White hats are the workers, white hat red stripe Dep Capt, red hat white strip Senior Dept and Red the Captain. After that there are a myriad of helmet colours as you go up in ranks right to the Commissioner whose hat colour I don't know and therefore wouldn't recognised if he appeared on the fireground ( although I suspect we are meant to genuflect if he comes near) or for firefighters with different roles. Offensive fire fighters are recognised by offensive fire fighting Kevlar helmets ( same ranking system) and bright lime over pants and jackets. Even though I am a Senior First Aider we don't get called to medical calls but I can ( hopefully ) keeps someone alive till the Ambulance or Chopper arrives, we may even get automated defrib units in or trucks soon. I'm not to keen on any of the call-outs we go on but I do it because it's my community and hopefully some will come and help put out fires on my property or get me out of an MVA. Getting a bit off topic but hey that's Usenet. Sorry again for yours and your community's loss > <hierophantf...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Thank you again. :-) I'm enjoying trying to figure out how your country works it. We have what is called "first responder" here and that doesn't mean that they can help an injured person but they can call in what is needed such as police, ambulance, fire co for car extraction, etc. Our FC has a "QRS" unit that goes to medical calls and that could be me. If the person needs to go to the hospital, the ambulance comes. The ambulance could be me or another level of assistant. Also if the problem is bad, then we chopper. I don't chopper. That's out of my expertise, or for now anyway. A few weeks back, I missed the QRS truck but we are supposed to stay at the firehouse if that happens. Sure enough, a call went out for chopper and so I rode in the engine to set up a landing zone for the chopper. All of this is fun but I'd much rather play with the marine unit toys and since the weather is getting warmer here, I can look forward to doing just that. When you say this -- " > I'm not to keen on any of the call-outs we go on but I do it because it's my community and hopefully some will come and help put out fires on my property or get me out of an MVA." Well I suppose it's like karma. At least I hope so too. :-) On Apr 15, 10:14 pm, "dechucka" <dechu...@vomithotmail.com> wrote: > <hierophantf...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > > - Show quoted text - =Thank you again. :-) I'm enjoying trying to figure out how your country works it. We have what is called "first responder" here and that doesn't mean that they can help an injured person but they can call in what is needed such as police, ambulance, fire co for car extraction, etc. Our FC has a "QRS" unit that goes to medical calls and that could be me. If the person needs to go to the hospital, the ambulance comes. The ambulance could be me or another level of assistant. Also if the problem is bad, then we chopper. I don't chopper. That's out of my expertise, or for now anyway. A few weeks back, I missed the QRS truck but we are supposed to stay at the firehouse if that happens. Sure enough, a call went out for chopper and so I rode in the engine to set up a landing zone for the chopper. All of this is fun but I'd much rather play with the marine unit toys and since the weather is getting warmer here, I can look forward to doing just that. When you say this -- " > I'm not to keen on any of the call-outs we go on but I do it because it's my community and hopefully some will come and help put out fires on my property or get me out of an MVA." Well I suppose it's like karma. At least I hope so too. :-) > On Apr 15, 10:14 pm, "dechucka" <dechu...@vomithotmail.com> wrote: >> <hierophantf...@hotmail.com> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 88 lines] > and since the weather is getting warmer here, I can look forward to > doing just that. We are the normal first response team to everything except an ambulance call. Will than call in what is needed but theycan take a long time to arrive, Ambulance maybe 1/2 an hour chopper probably longer. Hazmat is closer if they are availible. Back up RFS crew is by far the quickest sounds great with heading into summer > When you say this -- " > I'm not to keen on any of the call-outs we > go on but I do it because it's my community and hopefully some will > come and help put out fires on my property or get me out of an > MVA." Well I suppose it's like karma. At least I hope so > too. :-) put in for credits and hope you never have to cash them in > > <hierophantf...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > >news:fe7a4a1d-00c6-4188-adf3-aaea811f0ea3@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com... [quoted text clipped - 107 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I think I understand what you're saying. Sometimes we're the first responder but if the task is beyond us, then we need to call in for others. That's what happened with the QRS call the other week. The medic found the patient going into shock and so even though I missed the QRS call, the next call going out was for our company to set up the LZ for the chopper to take the patient to the trauma center. Sometimes we get called out first but then we may need to call for police to get in there before we can do anything. Sometimes, the people who call are on our "well-known" list. We have gone to their homes so many times and often they are not so nice people.. ie drug problems, violence, etc and it's just best that the police get the situation under control first. Our ambulance crews are often 30 mins away too. THat's where our QRS unit comes in. We can tend to them but we can't transport. At least they get some care initially though before the ambulance can arrive. The last chopper incident was about 30 mins from the time of the first call until the chopper arrived. I could be mistaken. But I know the medic called for the chopper asap and it seemed to get there really fast. In one of posts, I thought you said that you were hoping to get AED 's on your trucks. Is it normal not to have AED's on your trucks or is it just the area right where you live ? I'm told that the powers that be will be saying that CPR should be changed again for lay persons. I'm told that the new method will tell lay persons they don't need to give breaths at all, just chest compressions. I'm not sure when this will take effect here. Have you also heard this ? >>Biggest problem I remember were the old Volkswagon "Bugs". Some of them >>had the magnesium block engines and once those caught on fire, it was [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > fires (diesel and gasoline) and have seen the technique necessary for its > use on Class-D (magnesium, etc) fires... The biggest thing on electrical (class c) is just turn off the power. Then it reverts to either class a or b. Salt water, is of course more conductive than fresh water and electricity can follow a solid stream of liquid. However, I don't know how it would react with a fog stream of salt water. Having never fought a fire with salt water, I really do not want to be the one to find out. Water generally extinguishes fires by removing the heat. Not by smothering or cutting off oxygen. However, I suppose if you have an adequate amount of water, it could smother a fire. > Water generally extinguishes fires by removing the heat. Not by > smothering or cutting off oxygen. However, I suppose if you have an > adequate amount of water, it could smother a fire. One way or another the water is going to put out the fire... Either in a controlled manner (i.e. you fighting the fire and the ship still floating afterwards) or in an uncontrolled manner (i.e. the ship sinking to the bottom and the whole ocean smothering the fire)... When you're hundreds (or more) miles from the nearest land, there is a lot to be said for it being done in a controlled manner... <grin> One thing that I've not noticed civilian firefighters using is the low velocity fog wand type devices... They're about a 5-6 ft piece of pipe that hooks to the fire hose shaped like an 'L' with a low velocity fog nozzle on the short end of the 'L'... SignatureSee NNTP header field "X-Real-Email-Address" to reply by email. In article <pan.2008.04.10.13.27.15.32000@grumman581-usenet-2008-gmail- com>, grumman581+usenet-2008@gmail.com says... > One thing that I've not noticed civilian firefighters using is the low > velocity fog wand type devices... They're about a 5-6 ft piece of pipe > that hooks to the fire hose shaped like an 'L' with a low velocity fog > nozzle on the short end of the 'L'... I've also wondered why they don't use those. Hell Grummy, you and I probably trained on the same one in the same place. > I've also wondered why they don't use those. Hell Grummy, you and I > probably trained on the same one in the same place. If I remember correctly, I went through fire fighting school around 1981 in Norfolk... SignatureSee NNTP header field "X-Real-Email-Address" to reply by email. In article <pan.2008.04.10.21.00.24.79000@grumman581-usenet-2008-gmail- com>, grumman581+usenet-2008@gmail.com says... > If I remember correctly, I went through fire fighting school around 1981 > in Norfolk... I did it at Great lakes in 1969. >>Water generally extinguishes fires by removing the heat. Not by >>smothering or cutting off oxygen. However, I suppose if you have an [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > (or more) miles from the nearest land, there is a lot to be said for it > being done in a controlled manner... <grin> When you are hundreds of miles from land or another ship, there is much to be said for the controlled method. > One thing that I've not noticed civilian firefighters using is the low > velocity fog wand type devices... They're about a 5-6 ft piece of pipe > that hooks to the fire hose shaped like an 'L' with a low velocity fog > nozzle on the short end of the 'L'... Havn't seen anything like that. I have seen a device known as a "flue nozzle". This is a bullet shaped device that attaches to the end of a 3/4" "booster line" (hard rubber, low volume hose mostly used for small brush fires, etc). The last resort in a flue fire is to dump water down it. This will crack the flue liner resulting in thousands of dollars in damage. However, the "flue nozzle" has very fine holes drilled in the tip and basically lets a mist out rather than a stream. The pattern is spherical rather than a straight stream or even a semi fog or fog pattern. These take away the heat but not at such a rate as to damage the flue liner. > When you are hundreds of miles from land or another ship, there is much to > be said for the controlled method. Yep, otherwise that walk back to shore is going to be a rather long and wet one... > Havn't seen anything like that. I have seen a device known as a "flue > nozzle". This is a bullet shaped device that attaches to the end of a [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > These take away the heat but not at such a rate as to damage the flue > liner. Best I remember, we used them on 1.5 inch lines... The typical use of the low velocity fog and the long applicators was to shield the firefighters from the majority of the heat of the fire... This allowed the firefighters holding the shielding low velocity fog applicators to stand back a bit out of the way of the person(s) on the main hose (who was probably using either a high velocity fog or stream dependent upon what was necessary for the type of fire)... The fine water particles in the low velocity fog flashed to steam rather easily and took up quite a bit of thermal energy in the process of the phase change... Of course, certain types of fires were also good for the low velocity fog... I seem to remember it being good for taking heat energy out of a potential munitions cook off situation... I remember once when a car that I owned had a fuel line burst and the fuel caught fire in the engine compartment... It happened in front of my house and I didn't know about it until some kid comes knocking on my door telling me that my car was on fire... I ran around to the side of the house, turned the faucet on, and with a garden sprayer nozzle proceeded to open the hood and put out the fire that bellowed out of the now open compartment... Fanning it back and forth, I managed to keep the flames from scorching me while also generating a lot of steam in the process... The fire went out very quickly and other than a few hoses that needed replacing, the car came out of it basically unharmed... So, when people tell me that you can't use water on a gasoline fire, I have to laugh a bit at them... SignatureSee NNTP header field "X-Real-Email-Address" to reply by email. > I remember once when a car that I owned had a fuel line burst and the fuel > caught fire in the engine compartment... It happened in front of my house [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > tell me that you can't use water on a gasoline fire, I have to laugh a bit > at them... What no doubt happened in that situation, you had gasoline that had sprayed the inside of your engine compartment. A spark ignited it. The quick application of water removed much of the heat. The gasoline was basically just a thin application and was not puddled or had any depth to it. The application of water broke the fuel up enough to separate it from the heat and extinguish the fire. Had you had a significant amount of gasoline puddled up under the car, the water hose would have probably just spread the fire around. We normally will pull an 1"-3/4 line on a vehicle fire even in the engine compartment. Flowing 100gpm essentially deluges a relatively small area. Even if fuel is flowing from tank, there is still enough water to break the fuel up and extinguish the fire. If the fuel has already puddled on the ground, even a gallon or two or more of gas can cause a problem. >> I remember once when a car that I owned had a fuel line burst and the >> fuel [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > the fuel up and extinguish the fire. If the fuel has already puddled on > the ground, even a gallon or two or more of gas can cause a problem. Signature-- A skilled, armed man lives on a plane of security and contentment different from that of others. The man who cannot cut it, envies, fears and sometimes hates the man who can. -Cooper Popeye/ www.finalprotectivefire.com >> I remember once when a car that I owned had a fuel line burst and the >> fuel [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > the fuel up and extinguish the fire. If the fuel has already puddled on > the ground, even a gallon or two or more of gas can cause a problem. Ya, water -pushes- liquid fuel around to more consumables. I put an engine fire out with shaken/popped beer cans once, but it was just a carb/choke flare up. Signature-- A skilled, armed man lives on a plane of security and contentment different from that of others. The man who cannot cut it, envies, fears and sometimes hates the man who can. -Cooper Popeye/ www.finalprotectivefire.com > Ya, water -pushes- liquid fuel around to more consumables. > > I put an engine fire out with shaken/popped beer cans once, but it was > just a carb/choke flare up. Good thing you were drinking beer at the time instead of some 'shine... SignatureSee NNTP header field "X-Real-Email-Address" to reply by email. > What no doubt happened in that situation, you had gasoline that had > sprayed the inside of your engine compartment. A spark ignited it. I'm thinking that it was more likely just the heat of the exhaust when it started dripping down that way... > The quick application of water removed much of the heat. The gasoline > was basically just a thin application and was not puddled or had any > depth to it. The application of water broke the fuel up enough to > separate it from the heat and extinguish the fire. Had you had a > significant amount of gasoline puddled up under the car, the water hose > would have probably just spread the fire around. I'm thinking that the water hitting the hot engine and exhaust cause a lot of steam and the steam displaced the oxygen that the fire needed to burn... Combine that with the water cooling off the engine and exhaust and it didn't have a chance to restart... SignatureSee NNTP header field "X-Real-Email-Address" to reply by email. > >>OK thanks for the clarification. > >>In the US, the systems are known as SCBA (Self Contained Breathing [quoted text clipped - 95 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Some interesting stuff there Andy. We don't have hydrants here. We use drop tanks and ponds and creeks if needed. Our company doesn't have a ladder truck. There are no high-rise buildings here. > Some interesting stuff there Andy. We don't have hydrants here. We > use drop tanks and ponds and creeks if needed. Our company doesn't > have a ladder truck. There are no high-rise buildings here. An aerial ladder is a "tool". You don't necessarily need "high rises" to have a need for an aerial ladder. We have some private residences in my area that sit considerably off the street and elevated above the street. Should the need come to access the roof area for rescue purposes or extinguishing a fire, an aerial ladder is the best and safest method. Very rarely have I seen aerial ladder trucks used to access upper floors of high rise buildings. Not only does the ladder provide verticle coverage, but lateral "reach". This was one of the hardest points we had to make in our argument for a 100+ft ladder truck. We kept hearing, "you don't have any buildings that are 100 ft tall". I have fought my share of fires using drop tanks and drafting water from natural water sources. Not in my first due area, but providing mutual aid to a rural department. We were in a position we had to know hydrant strategy AND rural strategy. >> Some interesting stuff there Andy. We don't have hydrants here. We >> use drop tanks and ponds and creeks if needed. Our company doesn't [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > to a rural department. We were in a position we had to know hydrant > strategy AND rural strategy. natural water and the area tanker is all we have. Town water f.cking luxury >>> Some interesting stuff there Andy. We don't have hydrants here. We >>> use drop tanks and ponds and creeks if needed. Our company doesn't [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > natural water and the area tanker is all we have. Town water f.cking > luxury Indoor plumbing is a luxury, for you. Signature-- A skilled, armed man lives on a plane of security and contentment different from that of others. The man who cannot cut it, envies, fears and sometimes hates the man who can. -Cooper Popeye/ www.finalprotectivefire.com >>>> Some interesting stuff there Andy. We don't have hydrants here. We >>>> use drop tanks and ponds and creeks if needed. Our company doesn't [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Indoor plumbing is a luxury, for you. no we are a bit more civilised than the septics, actually we do have a septic system > hierophantf...@hotmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > aid to a rural department. We were in a position we had to know hydrant > strategy AND rural strategy. That's good. I guess we are just little rural bumpkins here since we don't have hydrants and we don't have buildings over 2 stories. Sorry that we don't measure up your standards. LOL "Excuse me kind sir, but please don't try to tell me how long I need to be doing whatever with whatever. The white hats in my company make those decisions. I take orders from them. And since you aren't one of my white hats, then.." >>I have fought my share of fires using drop tanks and drafting water from >>natural water sources. Not in my first due area, but providing mutual [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > don't have hydrants and we don't have buildings over 2 stories. Sorry > that we don't measure up your standards. LOL Geez...who the hell pissed in your cornflakes? I was offering a little advice from someone who has done that line of duty for a few decades. All the way from nozzle-jockey, engineer, to white hat. I've been to PLENTY of training, conferences, seminars and exercises and listened to people who were more experienced than me, had more training than me and perhaps had a different perspective than me. They weren't my boss, they weren't in my chain of command, and they weren't trying to tell me what to do. They were offering their experiences so that others (including myself) could learn and benefit from them. I took the wisdom of what they offered that benefited me and disregarded the rest. But I didn't get an attitude with them. You can fight fire anyway you want to. I don't care. > "Excuse me kind sir, but please don't try to tell me how long I need to > be doing whatever with whatever. The white hats in my company make [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > You can fight fire anyway you want to. I don't care. calm down he lost a mate >>"Excuse me kind sir, but please don't try to tell me how long I need to >>be doing whatever with whatever. The white hats in my company make [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > calm down he lost a mate Sorry he lost a "brother", but I was carrying on a friendly conversation relating some of my own experiences and then all of the sudden I get an attitude from him. I have buried my share of brother firefighters and police officers myself. >>>"Excuse me kind sir, but please don't try to tell me how long I need to >>>be doing whatever with whatever. The white hats in my company make [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > attitude from him. I have buried my share of brother firefighters and > police officers myself. Fair enough, touch wood I haven't > >>hierophantf...@hotmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I understand. But that's not how you came off to me. Maybe we should just forget it and move along. I've no reason to fight with you. And I gather you have none with me. We could move on to better things and other topics. >> "Excuse me kind sir, but please don't try to tell me how long I need to >> be doing whatever with whatever. The white hats in my company make [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > calm down he lost a mate So he says. He's a bullshit artist just like you. Signature-- A skilled, armed man lives on a plane of security and contentment different from that of others. The man who cannot cut it, envies, fears and sometimes hates the man who can. -Cooper Popeye/ www.finalprotectivefire.com > > hierophantf...@hotmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I replied to him to explain. Just hush now. > hierophantf...@hotmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > You can fight fire anyway you want to. I don't care. Excuse me AGAIN kind sir, but please explain to me how what you said is helping me and giving me any education ? It isn't. You know very well that I can't do anything over my chiefs and above what equipment we have. Please explain that and then tell me why you think that my own company isn't giving us inservices here. I live in a township that has a population of 5000 people. Thats the whole township. Thats 5 thousand, not 50 thousand, in the entire township. We might be small town, but we aren't totally ignorant and your "air" came off as though you think we are. You did NOT offer any training or conference or seminar or exercise. You gave your opinion on what your area does. And frankly I felt it was condescending especially when you said this : " > The ERG should be used for no longer than 15 minutes into the incident. > Beyond that, you should be on the phone to Chemtrec, hopefully have an > MSDS and some HazMat trained people on the scene or at least on the way. " Why do you feel the need to lecture to me ? Am I supposed to be humble and thankful that you are "imparting this wisdom to me" in a manner that comes across like a father telling a boy what not to do on his first date ? You sir, took an attitude from the start when you decided that you needed to give me some on-line lesson. I didn't ask you for that and I don't deserve that from you. You didn't impart the information in a "let's share manner". You did it in a manner that struck me as being, as I said before, condescending. If I'm in error, I'll apologize. I'm NOT here to argue with you !! > Excuse me AGAIN kind sir, but please explain to me how what you said > is helping me and giving me any education ? It isn't. You know very [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > be small town, but we aren't totally ignorant and your "air" came > off as though you think we are. All this time I thought it was two people from different backgrounds exchanging ideas of how to get the job done. I have fought fire in urban settings and rural settings. I know all too well that sometimes departments don't have all the equipment they want or need. Please point out what I wrote that made you think I was implying you are "ignorant". > You did NOT offer any training or conference or seminar or exercise. > You gave your opinion on what your area does. And frankly I felt it [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> Beyond that, you should be on the phone to Chemtrec, hopefully have an >>MSDS and some HazMat trained people on the scene or at least on the way. " Fine. Whether you are dealing with diesel fuel or "Ethyl Methyl Death" hazmat incident, feel free to deal with it anyway you want. I have been through Hazardous material training and was told the ERG should be used only initially. It wasn't an opinion. It was a statement based on my past training. Next time you attend Haz Mat training, tell the instructor that you are going to use the ERG for as long as you want. Makes no difference to me. However, don't take my word for it. Check page 2 of the 2004 ERG about 2/3 the way down the first paragraph. It is to be used for "INITIAL RESPONSE". If by chance you don't have an ERG2004 I will make it easy on you. http://hazmat.dot.gov/pubs/erg/erg2004.pdf > Why do you feel the need to lecture to me ? Am I supposed to be > humble and thankful that you are "imparting this wisdom to me" in a > manner that comes across like a father telling a boy what not to do on > his first date ? What you call a lecture, I felt was a "friendly" discussion between two people with backgrounds in firefighting. > You sir, took an attitude from the start when you decided that you > needed to give me some on-line lesson. I didn't ask you for that and > I don't deserve that from you. You didn't impart the information in a > "let's share manner". You did it in a manner that struck me as > being, as I said before, condescending. Sorry you interpreted it that way. It wasn't intended that way. I had 27 years in the fire service and thought I would try and share some my training. Apparently you don't want to hear it. Fine. I shall mention it no more. > If I'm in error, I'll apologize. I'm NOT here to argue with you !! >> Excuse me AGAIN kind sir, but please explain to me how what you said >> is helping me and giving me any education ? It isn't. You know very [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > If by chance you don't have an ERG2004 I will make it easy on you. > http://hazmat.dot.gov/pubs/erg/erg2004.pdf What is ERG? Acrobat reader recommended that I didn't open the above file >>> Excuse me AGAIN kind sir, but please explain to me how what you said >>> is helping me and giving me any education ? It isn't. You know very [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > What is ERG? Acrobat reader recommended that I didn't open the above file Can my last request. Found out what ERG is, isn't google wonderful. Only asked you because didn't think ERG would come up with any results. >>> Excuse me AGAIN kind sir, but please explain to me how what you said >>> is helping me and giving me any education ? It isn't. You know very [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > What is ERG? Acrobat reader recommended that I didn't open the above file Tsk tsk tsk. More link problems, imagine that. Signature-- A skilled, armed man lives on a plane of security and contentment different from that of others. The man who cannot cut it, envies, fears and sometimes hates the man who can. -Cooper Popeye/ www.finalprotectivefire.com >>>> Excuse me AGAIN kind sir, but please explain to me how what you said >>>> is helping me and giving me any education ? It isn't. You know very [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > > More link problems, imagine that. No Acrobat reader problems but as you are such an inspiration to this ng and Usenet in general I'm sure you never have software problems or glitches >>>Excuse me AGAIN kind sir, but please explain to me how what you said >>>is helping me and giving me any education ? It isn't. You know very [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > What is ERG? Acrobat reader recommended that I didn't open the above file Emergency Response Guide. A publication that gives first responders the best action to take during the initial stages of a haz mat release. Not sure why your reader recommended not to open it. Mine opened it OK. >>>>Excuse me AGAIN kind sir, but please explain to me how what you said >>>>is helping me and giving me any education ? It isn't. You know very [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > Not sure why your reader recommended not to open it. Mine opened it OK. Mainly because your Acrobat Reader didn't have problems. Mine came up on your link with something like this is a dangerous link acrobat reader will not open it but later when trying to open another PDF it said there was an error. Which I fixed by a reboot. Opened your file to see it was 374 pages and decided not to download. Thanks for the info in your post . >>>>If by chance you don't have an ERG2004 I will make it easy on you. >>>>http://hazmat.dot.gov/pubs/erg/erg2004.pdf [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > error. Which I fixed by a reboot. Opened your file to see it was 374 pages > and decided not to download. Thanks for the info in your post I opened the file but didn't download. I just scanned the first few pages and found what I wanted and then just provided the link. > I opened the file but didn't download. I just scanned the first few pages > and found what I wanted and then just provided the link. Technically, you did download it to your browser... It's only a 3M file, so it downloads quick enough that it is unlikely that you would be able to find what you wanted before it was finished downloading... I clicked on the link and it was in my browser within about 10-15 seconds... All of it... SignatureSee NNTP header field "X-Real-Email-Address" to reply by email. >>I opened the file but didn't download. I just scanned the first few pages >>and found what I wanted and then just provided the link. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > find what you wanted before it was finished downloading... I clicked on > the link and it was in my browser within about 10-15 seconds... All of it... True. Specifically, I didn't SAVE it to my computer. PDF files are capable of carrying malicious code. It's not unusual for browsers with a highly secure setting to recommend against opening them. > PDF files are capable of carrying malicious code. It's not unusual for > browsers with a highly secure setting to recommend against opening them. Yeah, it used to be that PDF was safe, but somewhere along the way Adobe added a "capability" with regards to MS-Word files and that opened the door to certain macro viruses... SignatureSee NNTP header field "X-Real-Email-Address" to reply by email. > PDF files are capable of carrying malicious code. It's not unusual for > browsers with a highly secure setting to recommend against opening them. which is why I didn't open it. However it seems to have been a problem with my programme not the file >> PDF files are capable of carrying malicious code. It's not unusual for >> browsers with a highly secure setting to recommend against opening them. > > which is why I didn't open it. However it seems to have been a problem > with my programme not the file Sure. And I used to think -I- was cyber-challenged. Signature-- A skilled, armed man lives on a plane of security and contentment different from that of others. The man who cannot cut it, envies, fears and sometimes hates the man who can. -Cooper Popeye/ www.finalprotectivefire.com >>> PDF files are capable of carrying malicious code. It's not unusual for >>> browsers with a highly secure setting to recommend against opening them. >> >> which is why I didn't open it. However it seems to have been a problem >> with |
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