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Scuba Forum / General / March 2008More dive talk
I'm sorry to report that on my most recent trip, I had another mild episode of skin bends. This episode was significantly less troublesome/painful than last year, and had I not had that significant skinbend event last year, I probably wouldn't even have noticed this time. I really hate to start getting paranoid but . .um . . these little things are starting make me remember stuff over the years. For example, while on a gorilla dive trip in Roatan, I came out of the water one beautiful day and was so tired, I could hardly take care of my gear. At the time, I just thought I should "man-up" and so I said nothing to anyone and went home for a laydown, figuring I was just getting long in the tooth. Over the years, I've had the odd event of numbness around my mouth and tingling in my pinkie and ring fingers. Hey, I'm not talking every dive or even every tenth dive. These are all very little things that I just thought little about at the time but now, and like I said, I'm trying not to get paranoid, but . . .. > I'm sorry to report that on my most recent trip, I had another mild > episode of skin bends. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > thought little about at the time but now, and like I said, I'm trying not > to get paranoid, but . . .. Sound like you need to rethink your banana wearing practices...  SignatureSee NNTP header field "X-Real-Email-Address" to reply by email. > Sound like you need to rethink your banana wearing practices... Yeah, maybe I should stuff it in the hole in my heart? >> Sound like you need to rethink your banana wearing practices... > > Yeah, maybe I should stuff it in the hole in my heart? If you have a PFO and all you've had are skin bends, you've been lucky; I have seen Type II DCS hits result from a PFO. (Type II is CNS involvement.) I'm not a doctor, but in my opinion if you have a PFO you should consider (a) surgery--they make an "umbrella patch" they can insert via a catheter--or (b) other sports. SignatureJohn Eells > > "Grumman-581" <grumman581-usenet-2008@spambob.net> wrote in message news:pan.2008.03.08.08.12.48.515000@grumman581-usenet-2008-spambob-net... > >> Sound like you need to rethink your banana wearing practices... > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > consider (a) surgery--they make an "umbrella patch" they can insert via > a catheter--or (b) other sports. I don't know if I have PFO. I was being a bit flip in my previous comment. As you said, it is more likely that I would have had something serious happen by now, if that were the case. I'll be more closely analysing my individual dives from here on in, looking to see if there is something else I'm doing that could be contributing to these relatively minor 'symptoms'. >> Sound like you need to rethink your banana wearing practices... > > Yeah, maybe I should stuff it in the hole in my heart? Do you have a hole in your heart? > > "Grumman-581" <grumman581-usenet-2008@spambob.net> wrote in message > > news:pan.2008.03.08.08.12.48.515000@grumman581-usenet-2008-spambob- [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Do you have a hole in your heart? Maybe, dunno for sure. It's more likely that I have a hole where my heart should be. >> Do you have a hole in your heart? > > Maybe, dunno for sure. It's more likely that I have a hole where my heart > should be. Not normally considered a DCS risk. >>>"Grumman-581" <grumman581-usenet-2008@spambob.net> wrote in message >>>news:pan.2008.03.08.08.12.48.515000@grumman581-usenet-2008-spambob- [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Maybe, dunno for sure. It's more likely that I have a hole where my heart > should be. Have a closer look. I myself have at least 4 holes in my heart. Right side intake, right side outlet, left side intake, left side outlet. I think that makes me a two-stroke. Matthias > Have a closer look. > I myself have at least 4 holes in my heart. > Right side intake, right side outlet, left side intake, left side outlet. > I think that makes me a two-stroke. No, you have valves... >>Have a closer look. >>I myself have at least 4 holes in my heart. >>Right side intake, right side outlet, left side intake, left side outlet. >>I think that makes me a two-stroke. > > No, you have valves... I hope so... Definitely no PFO. Matthias > >>Have a closer look. > >>I myself have at least 4 holes in my heart. > >>Right side intake, right side outlet, left side intake, left side outlet. > >>I think that makes me a two-stroke. > > No, you have valves... > I hope so... Definitely no PFO. I think that makes us, like, an 8 stroke... > > Have a closer look. > > I myself have at least 4 holes in my heart. > > Right side intake, right side outlet, left side intake, left side outlet. > > I think that makes me a two-stroke. > > No, you have valves... My favorite bike (RD350) was a 2 stroke and had reed valves > > > Have a closer look. > > > I myself have at least 4 holes in my heart. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > My favorite bike (RD350) was a 2 stroke and had reed valves Amen. I had 6 of them (RD350/400's) at various times, many of my friends rode them too. Absolutely brutal little bikes. We had one doing 63 hp at 13,000, and the powerband was from like 8500 on; below that you couldn't get the clutch out. My next fave was the 650 Turbo Seca. It was like a big RD350/400 and a lot faster. Still, there is nothing like a 120 cubic inch Panhead in a rigid frame that weighs 450 pounds full. http://www.leinewebercams.com/SHOVELHEAD%20&%20PANHEAD%20CAMS.htm Check out the J4 and the L5 cams. [Default] Thus spake "Scott" <pugetsounddiver@gmail.com>: >> > > Have a closer look. >> > > I myself have at least 4 holes in my heart. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >We had one doing 63 hp at 13,000, and the powerband was from like 8500 on; >below that you couldn't get the clutch out. I am with you entriely on that. Try a race ready version. I was getting probably 75 bhp at 16K. Very nasty little monster. But I regularly ate 500s for lunch. I enjoyed taking my street bike out and hunting Corvettes. Back then, crotch rockets (then known as cafe racers) were not well known or feared. >My next fave was the 650 Turbo Seca. It was like a big RD350/400 and a lot >faster. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Check out the J4 and the L5 cams. >>>Have a closer look. >>>I myself have at least 4 holes in my heart. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > My favorite bike (RD350) was a 2 stroke and had reed valves Reeds like in g-reed-y ;-) Matthias >> Have a closer look. >> I myself have at least 4 holes in my heart. >> Right side intake, right side outlet, left side intake, left side outlet. >> I think that makes me a two-stroke. > > No, you have valves... Reed valves. He's definitely a two stroke. >I'm sorry to report that on my most recent trip, I had another mild episode >of skin bends. > >This episode was significantly less troublesome/painful than last year, and >had I not had that significant skinbend event last year, I probably wouldn't >even have noticed this time. Do you recall any similarities or differences in your diving patterns that may have brought on the symptoms as wiith previous episodes? That is, this time, did you dive more/less often or in same/different conditions such that the symptoms occured than when diving where the symtpoms did not occur? Do any particular dives "stand out" this time that haven't when you don't get the condition? Sorry, my computer brain at work.... :-) ____________________________________________ Regards, Arnold > >I'm sorry to report that on my most recent trip, I had another mild episode > >of skin bends. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Sorry, my computer brain at work.... :-) Nope, I've thought that over carefully, and even last time, I couldn't think of anything unusual. The last time, I had had one dive, that I felt I may have ascended too rapidly on the last 15 feet. Other than that, nothing seemed out of the ordinary on any of the dives. That said, I've only just started to be extra observant. > ____________________________________________ > Regards, > > Arnold - -"mag3" <zmpmag3-plongee@yahoo.com> wrote in message -news:3nv4t3dhjgh1sn6iqo7t8f2d4cjocc5cuq@4ax.com... -> -> >I'm sorry to report that on my most recent trip, I had another mild -episode -> >of skin bends. -> > -> >This episode was significantly less troublesome/painful than last year, -and -> >had I not had that significant skinbend event last year, I probably -wouldn't -> >even have noticed this time. -> -> Do you recall any similarities or differences in your diving patterns that -may -> have brought on the symptoms as wiith previous episodes? That is, this -time, -> did you dive more/less often or in same/different conditions such that the -> symptoms occured than when diving where the symtpoms did not occur? -> Do any particular dives "stand out" this time that haven't when you don't -> get the condition? -> -> Sorry, my computer brain at work.... :-) -> - -Nope, I've thought that over carefully, and even last time, I couldn't think -of anything unusual. The last time, I had had one dive, that I felt I may -have ascended too rapidly on the last 15 feet. Other than that, nothing -seemed out of the ordinary on any of the dives. That said, I've only just -started to be extra observant. any prior activities that might be causes? dehydration? have you added any safety factor to your tables? - -> ____________________________________________ -> Regards, -> -> Arnold - - - SignatureBob Crownfield crownfield@verizon.net [Default] Thus spake "chilly" <slarson@shaw.canada>: >> >I'm sorry to report that on my most recent trip, I had another mild >episode [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >seemed out of the ordinary on any of the dives. That said, I've only just >started to be extra observant. I had a very good friend who took an undeserved hit in Cozumel. She was well within the tables, first dive of the day, 16 hours since her previous dive, well hydrated, etc. She took five rides in the chamber before being transfered to Houston. She did another four there. She was a quad. That was in 1995. She died about a year ago, much before her time. >> ____________________________________________ >> Regards, >> >> Arnold > Over the years, I've had the odd event of numbness around my mouth and > tingling in my pinkie and ring fingers. Hey, I'm not talking every dive or > even every tenth dive. These are all very little things that I just thought > little about at the time but now, and like I said, I'm trying not to get > paranoid, but . . .. Sounds more like an affection of nerves/vertebrae, or bad sleeping habits. Like squeezing vessels by an unfortunate combination of sleep position and mattress. Or a problem with Vitamin B metabolisation. I don't know wether a mild diabetes could create such nerve problems. Vitamin B/Magnesium related problems may be exacerbated by substance abuse. An important tool to differentiate is, go diving and evaluate if the problem go away under pressure. Similar with tiredness. In diving,it is mostly a micro bubble related symptom, and should go away with normobaric 100% Oxygen breathing. Another consideration should be to invetigate evaentually changed drinking habits, or other leisure activities. My last years decompression problem (considered toatally "undeserved", even by some experts) could be partially tracked down to a combination of lacking hydration ( caused by drinking habits, formerly wine, changing to cidre... your intestines will know the difference...), and some strenous walking( 18+11+10 km) through the mountaineous heather at a pace of more than 4 miles/hour. Others were current, use of reel while fighting current. Matthias > > Over the years, I've had the odd event of numbness around my mouth and > > tingling in my pinkie and ring fingers. Hey, I'm not talking every dive or [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Sounds more like an affection of nerves/vertebrae, or bad sleeping habits. Do you think I'm sneaking a nap in on my dives? > Like squeezing vessels by an unfortunate combination of sleep position > and mattress. That doesn't explain why I'm fine when I go into the water and have the symptoms when I come out of the water. > Or a problem with Vitamin B metabolisation. ?? > I don't know wether a mild diabetes could create such nerve problems. No diabetes, mild or otherwise. > Vitamin B/Magnesium related problems may be exacerbated by substance abuse. ?? > An important tool to differentiate is, go diving and evaluate if the > problem go away under pressure. > > Similar with tiredness. In diving,it is mostly a micro bubble related > symptom, and should go away with normobaric 100% Oxygen breathing. Well, I went diving the next day, did 3 or 4 dives and the day after that and so on and so on. I do not remember being that tired again. > Another consideration should be to invetigate evaentually changed > drinking habits, or other leisure activities. You mean like give up diving? ;^) > My last years decompression problem (considered toatally "undeserved", > even by some experts) could be partially tracked down to a combination > of lacking hydration ( caused by drinking habits, formerly wine, > changing to cidre... your intestines will know the difference...), I make special effort to ensure I'm well hydrated. I am not as successful in ensuring I am well-rested because I have had espisodes of insomnia throughout my adult life. > and > some strenous walking( 18+11+10 km) through the mountaineous heather at > a pace of more than 4 miles/hour. > Others were current, use of reel while fighting current. I do lots of walking and dancing, when on the majority of my dive trips. Which is at least two of the reasons, I'm not currently interested in a live-aboard dive vacation. >>Sounds more like an affection of nerves/vertebrae, or bad sleeping habits. > > Do you think I'm sneaking a nap in on my dives? Why not, during long decompression ;-). >>Like squeezing vessels by an unfortunate combination of sleep position >>and mattress. > > That doesn't explain why I'm fine when I go into the water and have the > symptoms when I come out of the water. Point taken. >>Or a problem with Vitamin B metabolisation. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > ?? Drinking a certain amount of alcohol on a regular basis over extended periods can cause an affection of nerves. >>An important tool to differentiate is, go diving and evaluate if the >>problem go away under pressure. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Well, I went diving the next day, did 3 or 4 dives and the day after that > and so on and so on. I do not remember being that tired again. So probably a good compression7decompression cycle cured it. > I make special effort to ensure I'm well hydrated. I am not as successful > in ensuring I am well-rested because I have had espisodes of insomnia > throughout my adult life. Well, insomnia can change the way the body deals with its fluid regime. Same goes for jet lag, reason to take it easy after travels east/westward. >>some strenous walking( 18+11+10 km) through the mountaineous heather at >>a pace of more than 4 miles/hour. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Which is at least two of the reasons, I'm not currently interested in a > live-aboard dive vacation. I haven't sen you dance, but it is exactly such activities which could lead to risks in diving. Exerting joints, or doing exercise with max power ( limbo..), may further the build-up of microbubbles. Matthias > >>I don't know wether a mild diabetes could create such nerve problems. > >>Vitamin B/Magnesium related problems may be exacerbated by substance abuse. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Drinking a certain amount of alcohol on a regular basis over extended > periods can cause an affection of nerves. I rarely drink . . that is unless I'm on vacation. :^) > > Well, I went diving the next day, did 3 or 4 dives and the day after that > > and so on and so on. I do not remember being that tired again. > > So probably a good compression7decompression cycle cured it. Maybe. Or maybe I did just need a nap. > > I make special effort to ensure I'm well hydrated. I am not as successful > > in ensuring I am well-rested because I have had espisodes of insomnia > > throughout my adult life. > > Well, insomnia can change the way the body deals with its fluid regime. > Same goes for jet lag, reason to take it easy after travels east/westward. Most of my dive travels are from north to south. > >>some strenous walking( 18+11+10 km) through the mountaineous heather at > >>a pace of more than 4 miles/hour. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Exerting joints, or doing exercise with max power ( limbo..), may > further the build-up of microbubbles. Well, I don't do the limbo but I can do the punta. In any event, wouldln't the further build-up of microbubbles be felt after the dancing and not after the dive(s) the next day or so? "chilly" <slarson@shaw.canada> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :Well, I don't do the limbo but I can do the punta. Like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcibCO8HwPU Dan Bracuk Never use a big word when a diminutive one will do. ----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups ---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- > "chilly" <slarson@shaw.canada> pounded away at his keyboard resulting > in: > > :Well, I don't do the limbo but I can do the punta. > > Like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcibCO8HwPU Well, that's pretty tame since it has been all cleaned up for a highschool review, but yeah, I guess that's the idea. > Well, I don't do the limbo but I can do the punta. In any event, wouldln't > the further build-up of microbubbles be felt after the dancing and not after > the dive(s) the next day or so? If you feel them after the dancing, it would be the result of a massive bubble overload, and a very bad decompression profile, typical for a long multilevel dive with quite some time around 100 ft, no deep stops, only a safety stop, e.g. NDL bladerunning, plus additional risks. I attribute a higher probability to itching post dancing, because exertion may create "points of interest" where microbubbles are likely to be generated. Like soda perls which always seem to originate fom the same spot in a soda bottle. Matthias > > Well, I don't do the limbo but I can do the punta. In any event, wouldln't > > the further build-up of microbubbles be felt after the dancing and not after [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > long multilevel dive with quite some time around 100 ft, no deep stops, > only a safety stop, e.g. NDL bladerunning, plus additional risks. I do not feel them after dancing. I do deep stops. > I attribute a higher probability to itching post dancing, because > exertion may create "points of interest" where microbubbles are likely > to be generated. I don't itch after dancing. > Like soda perls which always seem to originate fom the same spot in a > soda bottle. > > Matthias >> Over the years, I've had the odd event of numbness around my mouth and >> tingling in my pinkie and ring fingers. Hey, I'm not talking every dive [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Similar with tiredness. In diving,it is mostly a micro bubble related > symptom, and should go away with normobaric 100% Oxygen breathing. breathing 100% oxygen is dangerous > breathing 100% oxygen is dangerous Not as dangerous as breathing 100% nitrogen or 100% helium... SignatureSee NNTP header field "X-Real-Email-Address" to reply by email. On 14 Mar, 03:08, Grumman-581 <grumman581-usenet-2...@spambob.net> wrote: > > breathing 100% oxygen is dangerous > > Not as dangerous as breathing 100% nitrogen or 100% helium... maybe effects aren't so fast Janusz > maybe effects aren't so fast Perhaps... As they say, "good health is just the slowest possible way of dying"... SignatureSee NNTP header field "X-Real-Email-Address" to reply by email. On 14 Mar, 13:45, Grumman-581 <grumman581-usenet-2...@spambob.net> wrote: > > maybe effects aren't so fast > > Perhaps... As they say, "good health is just the slowest possible way of > dying"... Life as a sexually transmitted fatal disease? Janusz [Default] Thus spake "janusz_w@hotmail.com" <janusz_w@hotmail.com>: >On 14 Mar, 13:45, Grumman-581 <grumman581-usenet-2...@spambob.net> >wrote: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Janusz I saw that as a .sig in Usenet about 15 years ago. "Life is a sexually transmitted disease that is inevitably fatal" > [Default] Thus spake "janus...@hotmail.com" <janus...@hotmail.com>: > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > "Life is a sexually transmitted disease that is inevitably fatal" The one I used is the English title of Krzysztof Zanussi movie from 2000. Quite good BTW. Janusz [Default] Thus spake "janusz_w@hotmail.com" <janusz_w@hotmail.com>: >> [Default] Thus spake "janus...@hotmail.com" <janus...@hotmail.com>: >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >Janusz One of my favotire SF books was titled "Zot". Since they made the much worse "Solaris" into a movie, I wonder if they will do the same with what I consider to best Lem's best work. > [Default] Thus spake "janus...@hotmail.com" <janus...@hotmail.com>: > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > One of my favotire SF books was titled "Zot". "Zot" - never heard of it, but I'm not great fun of Lem. >Since they made the > much worse "Solaris" into a movie, I wonder if they will do the same > with what I consider to best Lem's best work. Which version of "Solaris"? American or Russian? Janusz > One of my favotire SF books was titled "Zot". Since they made the > much worse "Solaris" into a movie, I wonder if they will do the same > with what I consider to best Lem's best work. When I read this, I thought you were talking about Zotz, by Walter Karig. It was probably the first Science Fiction Book I ever read. I've read just about any and all science fiction I've been able to get my hands on since. Lee > "mat.voss" <spammat.voss@gmx.de> wrote in message >> Similar with tiredness. In diving,it is mostly a micro bubble related >> symptom, and should go away with normobaric 100% Oxygen breathing. > > breathing 100% oxygen is dangerous Not everyone is an Aussie. Most would put the cigarette out first. Signature-- A skilled, armed man lives on a plane of security and contentment different from that of others. The man who cannot cut it, envies, fears and sometimes hates the man who can. -Cooper Popeye/ www.finalprotectivefire.com >> "mat.voss" <spammat.voss@gmx.de> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Most would put the cigarette out first. you would put your "fag" out first ? ( poor Scotty) . What gun would you use? >> "mat.voss" <spammat.voss@gmx.de> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Most would put the cigarette out first. But in a pure O2 athmposphere you can inhale the whole cigarette in one breath! -- mrr >>>Over the years, I've had the odd event of numbness around my mouth and >>>tingling in my pinkie and ring fingers. Hey, I'm not talking every dive [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > breathing 100% oxygen is dangerous Get out of your quack-yard. Life is dangerous. So are cangarous. Matthias > > breathing 100% oxygen is dangerous > > Get out of your quack-yard. Life is dangerous. So are cangarous. I think it was Bill Hamilton who said "Oxygen is addictive; everyone who breathes it will eventually die". > I think it was Bill Hamilton who said "Oxygen is addictive; everyone who > breathes it will eventually die". 100% > >>>Over the years, I've had the odd event of numbness around my mouth and > >>>tingling in my pinkie and ring fingers. Hey, I'm not talking every dive [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Get out of your quack-yard. Life is dangerous. So are cangarous. Do you mean Kaenguruh? Janusz >>>>>Over the years, I've had the odd event of numbness around my mouth and >>>>>tingling in my pinkie and ring fingers. Hey, I'm not talking every dive [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Do you mean Kaenguruh? Kaenguruhs are daenguruhs. Matthias > janus...@hotmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Kaenguruhs are daenguruhs. Sounds like experts on pepper and death. JF > janus...@hotmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > Kaenguruhs are daenguruhs. > Matthias Gutt to know Janusz > Get out of your quack-yard. I'll DUCK that one +Life is dangerous. So are cangarous. Cangarous? > > Similar with tiredness. In diving,it is mostly a micro bubble related > > symptom, and should go away with normobaric 100% Oxygen breathing. > > breathing 100% oxygen is dangerous dechucka . . with all this diving you've done . . do you or your dive boat charter, not carry oxygen on board? [Default] Thus spake "dechucka" <dechucka@vomithotmail.com>: >>> Over the years, I've had the odd event of numbness around my mouth and >>> tingling in my pinkie and ring fingers. Hey, I'm not talking every dive [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > >breathing 100% oxygen is dangerous Depends on how long. Ten minutes? Not a big deal. Three hours? Serious concerns. Twenty-four hours? You've probably stopped breathing by then. > I'm sorry to report that on my most recent trip, I had another mild episode > of skin bends. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > little about at the time but now, and like I said, I'm trying not to get > paranoid, but . . .. I had a tingling in my pinkie on my last dive. More specifically, the outside edge on the tip of my finger. Due to about 45 minutes in 30 degree(F) water. I didn't move my hands enough to keep them warm. Signature</Tazz> [Default] Thus spake "chilly" <slarson@shaw.canada>: >I'm sorry to report that on my most recent trip, I had another mild episode >of skin bends. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >thought I should "man-up" and so I said nothing to anyone and went home for >a laydown, figuring I was just getting long in the tooth. Oooops. Lots of studies in the past have indicated that extreme exhaustion after a dive might be asymptomatic DCS. Of course, if you have a symptom, it can't be asymptomatic, but ... >Over the years, I've had the odd event of numbness around my mouth and >tingling in my pinkie and ring fingers. Hey, I'm not talking every dive or >even every tenth dive. These are all very little things that I just thought >little about at the time but now, and like I said, I'm trying not to get >paranoid, but . . .. Yeah, I'm starting to question some of my practices. Sometimes I'm a little too casual in what I do. Case in point, I do a lot of photography. Has there ever been a study of accidents to photographers vs. the general diving population? > [Default] Thus spake "chilly" <slarson@shaw.canada>: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Oooops. Lots of studies in the past have indicated that extreme > exhaustion after a dive might be asymptomatic DCS. Well, there ya go, my thoughts exactly. (snip)
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