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Scuba Forum / General / March 2008Octopus problem
OK, it has occurred to me that there is a bit of dive talk going on here, so I figured I'd ask. My octopus (alternate second stage) has been acting up, despite being serviced and checked for the specific problem. When at the surface before entering the water, I have a routine. Among other things, I take a couple of quick breaths off my reg while watching my gauge to ensure that my air is on and this also serves to see how much air I have. Every few dives, I take a breath or two off my octo as well, but regardless, I depress the purge button every time before hitting the water. Lately, this practice has been causing a slight freeflow from the octo throughout my dive. As I said, I've had this checked out a couple of times. They say the diaphragm is fine and can't see any other problem either. Obviously, I have to replace this piece of equipment before it becomes seriously problematic, but in the meantime, does anyone have any ideas to offer? > OK, it has occurred to me that there is a bit of dive talk going on here, > so [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > problematic, > but in the meantime, does anyone have any ideas to offer? I'd put both the first stage and second stages in for service, specifically identifying the problem to the tech and, here's the part that may be new, asking him to pay particular attention to the high pressure seal in the first stage. Sometimes a problem like what you are experiencing is not caused by the stage that is leaking, but by a higher than normal intermediate pressure that feeds it. If the high pressure seal has a slight leak, intermediate pressure increases until it forces gas past whichever of your regulators has the lightest release mechanism. I could be completely wrong, but when you've eliminated the obvious, it's time to look elsewhere. Good luck. When you find the problem, let us know. Lee > I'd put both the first stage and second stages in for service, > specifically identifying the problem to the tech and, here's the part > that may be new, asking him to pay particular attention to the high > pressure seal in the first stage. High pressure SEAT. > Sometimes a problem like what you are experiencing is not caused by > the stage that is leaking, but by a higher than normal intermediate [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > completely wrong, but when you've eliminated the obvious, it's time > to look elsewhere. Spot on. It may also be as simple as a slight adjustment of the cracking pressure in the second stage (to make it a tad less sensitive).  SignatureArt Greenberg artg at eclipse dot net >> I'd put both the first stage and second stages in for service, >> specifically identifying the problem to the tech and, here's the part [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Spot on. This is what happened to my Oceanic FDX-10 I believe. 1st Stage Seat Failure. Annual servicing of both stages seems to have fixed it. Although to be honest, I haven't tried it yet because in between time, I DIN'ed my tanks for my ScubaPro reg set and haven't looked back. ____________________________________________ Regards, Arnold > >> I'd put both the first stage and second stages in for service, > >> specifically identifying the problem to the tech and, here's the part [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > I haven't tried it yet because in between time, I DIN'ed my tanks for my ScubaPro > reg set and haven't looked back. Regs have been serviced twice, with emphasis made, though whether that emphasis actually got to the tech, I guess I don't know for sure. I've also had a tech look specifically at the octo while on site. It wouldn't repeat the problem for him, so he couldn't find anything wrong. But thanks all, I'll take it back in for service with your specific suggestions!! > Regs have been serviced twice, with emphasis made, though whether that > emphasis actually got to the tech, I guess I don't know for sure. You won't detect a sticking purge button on a test bench. Only if you push it manually. Matthias >> On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 10:57:51 -0000, Art Greenberg <none@none.invalid> >wrote: [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >But thanks all, I'll take it back in for service with your specific >suggestions!! Chilly does it dribble air all the time ? If so, next time you have it services ask fo a return air tank, low but some hook it all up, drop the secondary in the toilet and ask the tech if he might be able to fix that leak. >>On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 10:57:51 -0000, Art Greenberg <none@none.invalid> > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > But thanks all, I'll take it back in for service with your specific > suggestions!! So ya take the reg to the tech and watch while he attaches a lp gauge to one lp port and you breathe through the primary. If the pressure gauge is spiking, there's a bad 1st stage seat. That's what you'd've done if you understood how yer gear works. esg > >>On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 10:57:51 -0000, Art Greenberg <none@none.invalid> > > [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > That's what you'd've done if you understood how yer gear works. No spikes. > I'd put both the first stage and second stages in for service, specifically > identifying the problem to the tech and, here's the part that may be new, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > your regulators has the lightest release mechanism. I could be completely > wrong, but when you've eliminated the obvious, it's time to look elsewhere. Yeah, true. But easier to diagnose with a low pressure gauge on the ip side. I hate the idea of people taking my gear apart. esg > OK, it has occurred to me that there is a bit of dive talk going on here, so > I figured I'd ask. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > to replace this piece of equipment before it becomes seriously problematic, > but in the meantime, does anyone have any ideas to offer? Shops set up the primary and secondary the same, so you end up with a primary that breathes too hard and a secondary that breathes too easy. That's why all regulators have to be tuned after they have been screwed up by yer dive shop. That's why most regs sold today have those damned external adjustment knobs, to cancel out technician errors. The best octos are the old Oceanics; you can unscrew the cover, lift out the diaphragm, bend the lever, and reassemble even under water. No shop required. The octo and primary should be designed for roughly the same ip. If yer primary/first stage are a high ip unit and the octo is a low ip unit, you can have ongoing problems. Learn to work on yer own second stages. esg > > OK, it has occurred to me that there is a bit of dive talk going on here, so > > I figured I'd ask. [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > primary/first stage are a high ip unit and the octo is a low ip unit, > you can have ongoing problems. They are a complimentary set from first to both seconds. > Learn to work on yer own second stages. One wants to be able to trust the technician. ;^) > esg >>>OK, it has occurred to me that there is a bit of dive talk going on > [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > One wants to be able to trust the technician. ;^) I trust me about as far as I can throw me. But that's about seven times as far as I can throw the average tech. It helps to understand yer gear. Most of it is actually very simple, especially second stages. Personally, I want my second stage tuned just so, the way I like it, not the way the tech likes it. But I will let a tech do the first stage because I don't want to invest in the ultrasonic cleaner, the unique tools, the flow bench, the lp gauges, and all that hooha. And knowing how yer gear works not only will save you from scrapping dives as a result of a simple, easily resolved problem, it will keep the techs from giving you a snow job when they screw up. esg > > One wants to be able to trust the technician. ;^) > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > dives as a result of a simple, easily resolved problem, it will keep the > techs from giving you a snow job when they screw up. :^) Watch out for the purge button. I think it "slip-sticks" to it's guidance "bushing" in the diaphragm cover. Actuate it and watch closely, see how it returns completely or not. If not, unscrew diaphragm cover, tweeze the two tweeze ends that fix the purge button and return spring, take them out, and clean and even everything. A Swiss knife might do the job. What reg are you talking of? Matthias > OK, it has occurred to me that there is a bit of dive talk going on here, so > I figured I'd ask. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > to replace this piece of equipment before it becomes seriously problematic, > but in the meantime, does anyone have any ideas to offer? > Watch out for the purge button. I think it "slip-sticks" to it's > guidance "bushing" in the diaphragm cover. Actuate it and watch closely, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > What reg are you talking of? Sherwood Maximus > Matthias > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > to replace this piece of equipment before it becomes seriously problematic, > > but in the meantime, does anyone have any ideas to offer? >>Watch out for the purge button. I think it "slip-sticks" to it's >>guidance "bushing" in the diaphragm cover. Actuate it and watch closely, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Sherwood Maximus Dump it. Matthias > >>Watch out for the purge button. I think it "slip-sticks" to it's > >>guidance "bushing" in the diaphragm cover. Actuate it and watch closely, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Dump it. Matt, I've been diving these regs since day one. I'm ready for a new set, it's true, but there's certainly been nothing wrong with them overall for hundreds of dives and lo these many years. >>>>Watch out for the purge button. I think it "slip-sticks" to it's >>>>guidance "bushing" in the diaphragm cover. Actuate it and watch closely, [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > it's true, but there's certainly been nothing wrong with them overall for > hundreds of dives and lo these many years. Depends on your diving. Sherwood's reliability, with the CBS, rely heavily on annual service. Once the sinter filter is clogged, you are in deep sh.t. On a fast descent, when the bubble volume created by the bypass is unsufficient to replace the lost volume due to Boyle's law, you create an inside the reg going pressure gradient, which press water through the rubber lip seal. The residues will do their best to clog the filter, and then no more intermediate pressure compensation for depth. Matthias > >>Watch out for the purge button. I think it "slip-sticks" to it's > >>guidance "bushing" in the diaphragm cover. Actuate it and watch closely, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Dump it. If anybody wants to "dump" Sherwoods, I know lots of people who'll gladly take them. They're not the most sophisticated out there so they don't appeal to techy snobs, but they're great recreational workhorses, as dependable and easy to service as you'll get. The first stage air bleed feature makes them unappealing to cave divers and the like. JF
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