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Scuba Forum / General / March 2008On Topic- Al Wells!
Al- I need some ideas for a noise deadening material for model railroad road bed, got any? It needs to be somewhat available and come in sheets or strips, like Homosote. It would insulate between vibration generated by the locomotives (via the rails) and the plywood base table. Looking for unconventional solutions (albeit w/ readily available supplies). Thanks! Also- does anybody know who the largest custom wetsuit maker in America is (neoprene strips from scrap)?  Signature-- A skilled, armed man lives on a plane of security and contentment different from that of others. The man who cannot cut it, envies, fears and sometimes hates the man who can. -Cooper Popeye/www.finalprotectivefire.com > Al- > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Also- does anybody know who the largest custom wetsuit maker in America > is (neoprene strips from scrap)? Sheet cork works well. And it's cheap and easily cut into strips. Signature“TANSTAAFL” ____________________________________________________________________________ America: Ironically, the safest place to be anti-American. ____________________________________________________________________________ "A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences." - Proverbs 22:3 >> Al- >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > And it's cheap and easily cut into strips. Rubberized cork roadbed is widely produced- it dries out and gets rock hard. Usually within a couple years. Does cork come in different grades or quality? It was Wagner that came up with the wetsuit material idea. There's also some kinda automotive insulation- you find it under trunk mats. It's thick and fibrous, I'd like to get a line on it. I'm just casting about for unconventionalisms. :-) It's been thirty years since my last endeavor. I'm surprised at what's changed. Signature-- A skilled, armed man lives on a plane of security and contentment different from that of others. The man who cannot cut it, envies, fears and sometimes hates the man who can. -Cooper Popeye/www.finalprotectivefire.com >>> Al- >>> [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > I'm surprised at what's changed. I have cork gasket material that I use for vibration isolators. Some is 10+ years old. Still pliable. It will harden under compression, but we are talking fairly high psi for that to happen. it's not rubberized though. How pliable do you want it to be? Signature“TANSTAAFL” ____________________________________________________________________________ America: Ironically, the safest place to be anti-American. ____________________________________________________________________________ "A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences." - Proverbs 22:3 >>>> Al- >>>> [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > Some is 10+ years old. Still pliable. It will harden under compression, > but we are talking fairly high psi for that to happen. Current conventional wisdom says that cork sources are disappearing (to the point where wine makers are getting nervous). Quality of cork is reduced by fillers. I have tons of automotive gaskets, some thirty years old and soft, some three years old and like rock. The problem is, you won't know until too late. > it's not rubberized though. > > How pliable do you want it to be? Gotta be about 1/4" thick, and cuttable and bendable. Signature-- A skilled, armed man lives on a plane of security and contentment different from that of others. The man who cannot cut it, envies, fears and sometimes hates the man who can. -Cooper Popeye/www.finalprotectivefire.com > I have tons of automotive gaskets, some thirty years old and soft, some > three years old and like rock. These have indeed a rubber matrix. My beetle valve cover gaskets are still pliable. Ever thought of "solid" neoprene? Sheets come by 1x2 m, thickness 2 mm. You will have to make a test strip with the different specimen. > Gotta be about 1/4" thick, and cuttable and bendable. That is quite thick. Matthias > There's also some kinda automotive insulation- you find it under trunk > mats. Well, this makes me think of felt. Might work. There are stiff varieties. Matthias On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 22:43:39 -0500, "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick" <Popeye@finalprotectivefire.com> wrote: >>> Al- >>> [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > I'm surprised at what's changed. How big an area ? If not too huge you might look into rubberized padding they put over concrete floors for people to stand on You might want to try a neoprene variety. Raw neoprene sheets come with separating thin neoprene layers lacking the inner/outer tissue shell. I used it to isolate my turntable base from the plywood. But the base is a 130 lbs granite slab. This neoprene might be a bit "springy". Anyway, you should be able to get it for free, when you pass by a shop, since they will dump it otherwise. Another useful stuff might be Sorbothane, with is used to shield submarine vessels against sonar beams. All you need is to catch one and unpeel it. Or visit a submarine scrap yard. http://www.sorbothane.com/PDF/StandardProduct.pdf Matthias > Al- > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Also- does anybody know who the largest custom wetsuit maker in America > is (neoprene strips from scrap)? We used to buy sheets of rubber for making water ski bindings. It was about the right thickness and was available in varying degrees of softness/flexibility. We used some fairly flexible rubber for out bindings to keep them from eating holes in our feed when skiing for hours. Lee > We used to buy sheets of rubber for making water ski bindings. It was > about the right thickness and was available in varying degrees of > softness/flexibility. We used some fairly flexible rubber for out bindings > to keep them from eating holes in our feed when skiing for hours. Thanks everyone! Signature-- A skilled, armed man lives on a plane of security and contentment different from that of others. The man who cannot cut it, envies, fears and sometimes hates the man who can. -Cooper Popeye/www.finalprotectivefire.com > Al- > > I need some ideas for a noise deadening material for model railroad > road bed, got any? Just build the entire thing in MDF (chipboard) covered with a layer of fibreboard - don't know what you call it in the states, but this is somewhere between MDF and cardboard - soft and thin enough to punch through, you can push a track pin in with one hand, great sound deadning effect as long as the base in not too hollow creating a drum effect. >> Al- >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > through, you can push a track pin in with one hand, great sound deadning > effect as long as the base in not too hollow creating a drum effect. I'm gonna stop at Home Depot (a building materials retailer) and check what they have. Signature-- A skilled, armed man lives on a plane of security and contentment different from that of others. The man who cannot cut it, envies, fears and sometimes hates the man who can. -Cooper Popeye/www.finalprotectivefire.com > Al- > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Looking for unconventional solutions (albeit w/ readily available > supplies). I'm afraid I don't really have expertise in this area. My sonar experience was almost 40 years ago, and my area of truck expertise was in firetruck pump houses and bodies. I wasn't involved in cab design. On the bodies, we used foam tape between the large sheet metal parts if they were Huck fastened, and that was it. For what you are doing, I would first make the plywood base as stiff as possible (maybe with a wood backing frame glued to it) to avoid low frequency resonances, and then use neoprene or one of the vinyl-nitrile isolating materials between the rails and the base. Here's a place that I found using Google: http://www.soundproofing.org/sales/prices.html I'm sure you will find more with a little research. >> Al- >> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > I found using Google: http://www.soundproofing.org/sales/prices.html > I'm sure you will find more with a little research. Thanks! From their home page: "If you're from Berkeley, Ca, and don't support our troops, don't bother to order- we'll ignore you as you have our brave troops in Iraq" I'll definitely try something they have. Signature-- A skilled, armed man lives on a plane of security and contentment different from that of others. The man who cannot cut it, envies, fears and sometimes hates the man who can. -Cooper Popeye/www.finalprotectivefire.com > Thanks! > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I'll definitely try something they have. sh.t, I wish they had something I need. I am going to send them an attaboy anyway. > sh.t, I wish they had something I need. Clues are on special this week. > > sh.t, I wish they had something I need. > Clues are on special this week. Cool, since they are cheap, I'll buy you a double. Dynamat Audiophiles use it between the speakers and body of their cars. It's pretty pricey though. and I've only ever seen it in 1'x1' squares. > Al- > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Also- does anybody know who the largest custom wetsuit maker in America is > (neoprene strips from scrap)? > Dynamat > > Audiophiles use it between the speakers and body of their cars. > > It's pretty pricey though. I just dropped 5K on 10 (e-yyuuuuzzzzd) locomotives. >and I've only ever seen it in 1'x1' squares. Where would I get it? >> Al- >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > is >> (neoprene strips from scrap)? Signature-- A skilled, armed man lives on a plane of security and contentment different from that of others. The man who cannot cut it, envies, fears and sometimes hates the man who can. -Cooper Popeye/www.finalprotectivefire.com >> Dynamat >> [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] >> >>> (neoprene strips from scrap)? try this: http://www.800nonoise.com/whispermat.htm Signature“TANSTAAFL” ____________________________________________________________________________ America: Ironically, the safest place to be anti-American. ____________________________________________________________________________ "A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences." - Proverbs 22:3 >>> Dynamat >>> [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > http://www.800nonoise.com/whispermat.htm Rec.scuba is better than Alice's Restaurant. Signature-- A skilled, armed man lives on a plane of security and contentment different from that of others. The man who cannot cut it, envies, fears and sometimes hates the man who can. -Cooper Popeye/www.finalprotectivefire.com On Wed, 5 Mar 2008 18:48:31 -0500, "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick" <Popeye@finalprotectivefire.com> wrote: >>>> Dynamat >>>> [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > Rec.scuba is better than Alice's Restaurant. Nothing is better than Alice's Resturant was > On Wed, 5 Mar 2008 18:48:31 -0500, "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick" > <Popeye@finalprotectivefire.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] >> > Nothing is better than Alice's Resturant was Because you could get anything you want. Excepting Alice. Signature-- A skilled, armed man lives on a plane of security and contentment different from that of others. The man who cannot cut it, envies, fears and sometimes hates the man who can. -Cooper Popeye/www.finalprotectivefire.com On Thu, 6 Mar 2008 06:23:37 -0500, "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick" <Popeye@finalprotectivefire.com> wrote: >> On Wed, 5 Mar 2008 18:48:31 -0500, "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick" >> <Popeye@finalprotectivefire.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > > Excepting Alice. And the real officer Obie was such a nice guy. On Mar 6, 6:23 am, "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick" <Pop...@finalprotectivefire.com> wrote: > > On Wed, 5 Mar 2008 18:48:31 -0500, "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick" > > <Pop...@finalprotectivefire.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 82 lines] > > Excepting Alice. Did you ever see Alice???? JF >On Mar 6, 6:23=A0am, "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick" ><Pop...@finalprotectivefire.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 110 lines] > >JF nope, but I met a bunch of very very strange folks. I lived 10 miles north of Stockbridge > > Dynamat > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Where would I get it? I got mine at crutchfield.com. Although, for your purposes, Bynapad may actually be better than dynamat. Here's a 12 sqft piece for about $140 http://www.amazon.com/Dynamat-DynaPad-noise-sheet-square/dp/B000P36826/ref=pd_bb s_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1204826731&sr=8-1 Here's the same thing for about $80 http://www.hifisoundconnection.com/Shop/Control/Product/fp/vpid/2318769/vpcsid/0 /SFV/30046 Also, 1/8" closed cell foam may work just as well. I bought some about a year ago for a poker table I was building. It worked out really well for that purpose. I think I laid out about $30 for a 4'x8' piece off of Ebay. The Dynamat/Dynapad is specifically designed as a vibration dampner though, so it *might* be better for your purpose. > >> Al- > >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > is > >> (neoprene strips from scrap)? >> > Dynamat >> > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > though, > so it *might* be better for your purpose. Thanks, I went right to their website. Whatever I get will cut into strips, so there were a lot of options. Signature-- A skilled, armed man lives on a plane of security and contentment different from that of others. The man who cannot cut it, envies, fears and sometimes hates the man who can. -Cooper Popeye/www.finalprotectivefire.com "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick" <Popeye@finalprotectivefire.com> wrote in news:13stqdpcnqvv661@news.supernews.com: >> Dynamat >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I just dropped 5K on 10 (e-yyuuuuzzzzd) locomotives. What guage are you building in, and what brand of locomotives did you get? > "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick" <Popeye@finalprotectivefire.com> wrote > in news:13stqdpcnqvv661@news.supernews.com: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> > What gauge are you building in, and what brand of locomotives did you get? HOn3, and a variety of DCC Shays, 25- 90 ton, and a couple #50s.. Signature-- A skilled, armed man lives on a plane of security and contentment different from that of others. The man who cannot cut it, envies, fears and sometimes hates the man who can. -Cooper Popeye/www.finalprotectivefire.com > > "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick" <Popeye@finalprotectivefire.com> wrote > > in news:13stqdpcnqvv661@news.supernews.com: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > HOn3, and a variety of DCC Shays, 25- 90 ton, and a couple #50s.. Somehow I knew there would be Shay's... (seeing as how I learned of them from you) http://www.shaylocomotives.com/ >> > "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick" <Popeye@finalprotectivefire.com> >> > wrote [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > http://www.shaylocomotives.com/ It's the 4x4 of locomotives. :-) Signature-- A skilled, armed man lives on a plane of security and contentment different from that of others. The man who cannot cut it, envies, fears and sometimes hates the man who can. -Cooper Popeye/www.finalprotectivefire.com > > http://www.shaylocomotives.com/ > > It's the 4x4 of locomotives. :-) What about the Willamette's? >> > http://www.shaylocomotives.com/ >> >> It's the 4x4 of locomotives. :-) > > What about the Willamette's? If you squint, the Shay locomotive is a 1911A1. Limas and Willamettes were the new and improved versions, after initial patents expired. Willamettes were superheated, for one thing. Scuba to trains to guns. Could there be anything better than this? Signature-- A skilled, armed man lives on a plane of security and contentment different from that of others. The man who cannot cut it, envies, fears and sometimes hates the man who can. -Cooper Popeye/www.finalprotectivefire.com > "Scott" <pugetsounddiver@gmail.com> wrote in message > > What about the Willamette's? > If you squint, the Shay locomotive is a 1911A1. > Limas and Willamettes were the new and improved versions, after initial > patents expired. > Willamettes were superheated, for one thing. > Scuba to trains to guns. > Could there be anything better than this? Yeah, it could be lefty, lawyer and traitor free... > Scuba to trains to guns. > > Could there be anything better than this? How about scuba _and_ trains. Come up and dive this: http://njscuba.net/sites/site_locomotives.html SignatureWhy, we can have Lots of good fun, if you wish, With a game that I call UP-UP-UP with a fish! >> Scuba to trains to guns. >> >> Could there be anything better than this? > > How about scuba _and_ trains. Come up and dive this: > http://njscuba.net/sites/site_locomotives.html I've seen those pics on "lost locomotives". Those are tiny 1850's things. The Arundo had two big Mikados on her deck when she was torped in WW2, and that's right off Jersey somewhere. Signature-- A skilled, armed man lives on a plane of security and contentment different from that of others. The man who cannot cut it, envies, fears and sometimes hates the man who can. -Cooper Popeye/www.finalprotectivefire.com > I've seen those pics on "lost locomotives". > > Those are tiny 1850's things. > > The Arundo had two big Mikados on her deck when she was torped in WW2, and > that's right off Jersey somewhere. Yup, it's in the "Mudhole" and I went there last year. I hope to go at least a couple of times this year. SignatureWhy, we can have Lots of good fun, if you wish, With a game that I call UP-UP-UP with a fish! > I need some ideas for a noise deadening material for model railroad road > bed, got any? Big thick concrete bed... 4" of concrete over the top of the plywood might work... Model railroads don't make that much noise, do they? SignatureSee NNTP header field "X-Real-Email-Address" to reply by email. >> I need some ideas for a noise deadening material for model railroad road >> bed, got any? > > Big thick concrete bed... 4" of concrete over the top of the plywood might > work... Model railroads don't make that much noise, do they? Thanks!! Yeah, they do, and the layout construction works like the box of a guitar acoustically. Signature-- A skilled, armed man lives on a plane of security and contentment different from that of others. The man who cannot cut it, envies, fears and sometimes hates the man who can. -Cooper Popeye/www.finalprotectivefire.com On 3/5/2008 5:24:00 PM, "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick" wrote, In Message <13suasqfj100kaa@news.supernews.com>: > Thanks!! > > Yeah, they do, and the layout construction works like the box > of a guitar acoustically. How big of an area are you building? Does it need to be moveable? If it was put on the garage floor, would the noise be acceptable? If weight is not an issue, there are a lot more optons... Concrete doesn't really resonate, so that might be an option... Another option might be to make a platform where there is a 1x4 or 2x4 around the edge and fill this large trough-like area with what the construction industry calls "stabilized sand"... It's a mixture of cement and sand... Not sure of the percentages though... Something like 10% cement to 90% sand, IIRC... They use it around here as backfill around large culverts under small bridges that go across creeks and ditches... They can pour it dry and it slowly absorbs moisture from the ground and cures... It might give you some choices on terrain... > On 3/5/2008 5:24:00 PM, > "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick" wrote, [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > cures... > It might give you some choices on terrain... It has to be man portable (in case I move). It's 3' x 10'. I'm in this condo about 20 days a year- I may finally punt and rent it out. I just moved one of my bedwenches into the back bedroom. I was actually thinking about buying one of those pre-made outbuildings just to put the layout in. A small two story to stick in my mom's back (2.5 acre) yard. That way I could use it for storage too, and never have to worry about moving the layout. Signature-- A skilled, armed man lives on a plane of security and contentment different from that of others. The man who cannot cut it, envies, fears and sometimes hates the man who can. -Cooper Popeye/www.finalprotectivefire.com > It has to be man portable (in case I move). > > It's 3' x 10'. OK, so 10 cu-ft of concrete at 150 lbs/cu-ft equals 1500 lbs... Yeah, that should be man portable... By you... > I was actually thinking about buying one of those pre-made > outbuildings just to put the layout in. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > That way I could use it for storage too, and never have to worry about > moving the layout. Get you a 40 ft or 20 ft shipping container... I'm sure that you're well familar with them considering your current profession... Even with 1500 lbs of concrete in there, it's 'portable'... Considerably less weight than those containers are designed to carry... Plus, they're big enough that you could put the really important stuff there also... Like a beer fridge... If concerned about the neighbors noticing it, disquise it with a trelis and some ivy... I knew someone at one time who had a train that went along the upper part of the walls in his house... He had holes cut through the walls above the doors so that it went from room to room... The holes were trimmed out so that they looked like a tunnel entrance... Personally, I figured he just had way too much free time on his hands... SignatureSee NNTP header field "X-Real-Email-Address" to reply by email. On Mar 5, 2:28 am, "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick" <Pop...@finalprotectivefire.com> wrote: > Al- > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Popeye/www.finalprotectivefire.com oh. my. god. you make me piss my pants... On. Topic... !!!!! :) what the f.ck is this newsgroup- sad.model.railway.enthusiasts or what..... You stupid twat. > oh. my. god. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > You stupid twat. f.ck you. <plonk> > On Mar 5, 2:28 am, "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick" > <Pop...@finalprotectivefire.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > you make me piss my pants... You sure would, if you ever tried to say this to me in person. Anyway, we're not interested in your preferred sexual deviances. > On. Topic... !!!!! :) what the f.ck is this newsgroup- > sad.model.railway.enthusiasts or what..... Hey. Beats nanites. I'm a diver, I saw a train underwater once, I wanted to talk about trains. Wetsuits were even involved. It's the current conventional wisdom. > You stupid twat. Maybe, but compared to who, -you-? Signature-- A skilled, armed man lives on a plane of security and contentment different from that of others. The man who cannot cut it, envies, fears and sometimes hates the man who can. -Cooper Popeye/www.finalprotectivefire.com > Al- > > I need some ideas for a noise deadening material for model railroad > road bed, got any? What came to my mind... What is actually making or amplifying the noise? Is it possibly the rails? When they are made of sheet metal "rock gravel bed"), it my well be woth a try to coat this from underneath with car body anti-vibration compound like or similar to anti-drone. greets, Matthias >> Al- >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > bed"), it my well be woth a try to coat this from underneath with car body > anti-vibration compound like or similar to anti-drone. It's the frequency and rpm of the motor. Many or most are hard mounted to the frame for ground. I will certainly be looking at that as well. > greets, > Matthias Signature-- A skilled, armed man lives on a plane of security and contentment different from that of others. The man who cannot cut it, envies, fears and sometimes hates the man who can. -Cooper Popeye/www.finalprotectivefire.com [Default] Thus spake "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick" <Popeye@finalprotectivefire.com>: > Al- > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > It would insulate between vibration generated by the locomotives (via the >rails) and the plywood base table. I've always like Homasote. It's a real pain to work with when you're cutting it, but it lasts almost forever. The club I belonged to in Bryan in the mid 70's still has most of the same roadbed down. Do you know how to cut strips for curves? It's easy, but for some, counter intuitive. Are you using flat board or griders? Girders are a lot quieter, in my experience. > Looking for unconventional solutions (albeit w/ readily available >supplies). [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >-- > [Default] Thus spake "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick" > <Popeye@finalprotectivefire.com>: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > cutting it, but it lasts almost forever. The club I belonged to in > Bryan in the mid 70's still has most of the same roadbed down. Mother is the necessity of invention. Homasote now comes in roadbed strips- it may be an option. > Do you know how to cut strips for curves? It's easy, but for some, > counter intuitive. > > Are you using flat board or griders? Girders are a lot quieter, in my > experience. I dunno yet- it has to be relatively man portable. >> Looking for unconventional solutions (albeit w/ readily available >>supplies). [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> >>-- Signature-- A skilled, armed man lives on a plane of security and contentment different from that of others. The man who cannot cut it, envies, fears and sometimes hates the man who can. -Cooper Popeye/www.finalprotectivefire.com |
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