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Scuba Forum / General / January 2004Octo Selection help
Hello everyone, I trust everyone had a good new year? OK, I seek the help of those more informed than me (except that 50lbs lead guy) I just picked up an Apeks ATX 200 regulator. ( I got a realy good deal on it, new in box, guy needed money) I have read a few places that I shouldn't use an inexpensive octo on it becouse it changes its intermediate pressure (I belive this is what I read) The setup I have now is: Pri: Aqua Lung Titan Micra Adjustable Sec: Aqua Lung Octopus XLC Would it be feasable to use my Titan Adj as the Sec (octo) [after I put a yellow hose] or should I just save some money and buy a new octo to go with it? This is my first entry into a higher end regulator. Well, I apreciate any help. -- Mike Bradley http://gzen.myhq.info -- free online php tools > Hello everyone, I trust everyone had a good new year? > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Well, I apreciate any help. And a great entry. Apeks makes very high quality, easy to maintain regulators. As long as the Micra uses near the same Intermediate Pressure, it would work just fine, but then you are robbing a nice Aqualung set that you could put on eBay and use the money to get a long hose and another Apeks 2nd stage and set your gear up proper. Scott Mike, I've put in a couple of hundred dives with a Micra Adj, and overall I would say that it breathes very easy, but it requires constant attention and adjustment, and regular overhauls, and even then it will occasionally freeflow or breathe wet. For a backup or octopus regulator you require bulletproof reliability, and I don't think the Micra would be the best option. In fact, given the choice, I would use the XLC as a backup rather than the Micra. The new Apeks first stages are "overbalanced", i.e. the intermediate pressure is supposed to creep up as you go deeper. I don't think a finicky second stage like the Micra would tolerate this well. You could either use a basic second stage and detune it somewhat at the surface to avoid freeflow at depth, or you could use a balanced second stage such as another Apeks. ab > Hello everyone, I trust everyone had a good new year? > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Mike Bradley > http://gzen.myhq.info -- free online php tools > The new Apeks first stages are "overbalanced", i.e. the intermediate > pressure is supposed to creep up as you go deeper. All first stages increase IP with depth, due to the corresponding increase in ambient pressure, that is one of their primary functions and reasons for being. Otherwise and you'd not be able to breathe at depth, eh? Scott "Sure it's a lousy war, but it's the only war we've got." Colonel Bud Reynolds, USMC > > The new Apeks first stages are "overbalanced", i.e. the intermediate > > pressure is supposed to creep up as you go deeper. Then Scott anwered: > All first stages increase IP with depth, due to the corresponding increase > in ambient pressure, that is one of their primary functions > and reasons for being. Otherwise and you'd not be able to breathe at depth, > eh? Sorry Scott, read Andy's message again. It reads correctly: The new Apeks first stages are "overbalanced". Overbalanced means that while descending the IP will increase MORE then the increment of AP. This is done by a very, very clever and very, very simple trick of engeneering and it enabeles the first stage to deliver more useful air at depth. The down side -if you want to call it that- is that you absolutely cannot use an unbalanced second stage for an octopus, because it will start leaking and progessively leak harder, the deeper you descent. Always buy a good second stage for an octopus, preferably of the same brand as your main reg, to avoid missmatching IP dynamics and flow characteristics. Another reason never to go cheap on safety. HES van Schoonhoven I'll have to do some reading. > > > The new Apeks first stages are "overbalanced", i.e. the intermediate > > > pressure is supposed to creep up as you go deeper. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > HES van Schoonhoven > I'll have to do some reading. True that the Apexs is overbalanced, and absolute ip rises more than it would if it were evenly balanced. But it doesn't make a helluva lot of difference. (1) Most modern second stages are designed for the same ip, and pretty much anything from about 90 to 170 will make them happy; (2) ip is not critical and most shops are apt to be off by 5+ psi; (3) it matters not, because the second stage is always tuned after the first stage is set, and tuned to whatever ip happens to be: and (4) the octo should be tuned dull anyway, so a slight rise in ip will make no difference. The Apeks manual says to set ip at "exactly 135 . . . (+/-5) psi." If yer second is designed for "exactly" 130 - 140 psi, (or 150) it will work just fine. If yer second stage is an antique designed for 10 psi ip, it's time to hit a few garage sales. >....... > If yer second stage is an antique designed for 10 psi ip, it's time to > hit a few garage sales. Wouldn't I be able to blow back into it at 1/ATM? since I would be +14psi? ;) (its a joke for those that take me seriously) Well I apreciate everyones input on my question, and it looks like I will not use this regulator untill, I can afford to buy a matching octo from apeks, it just seems to be the better way to go. I guess I was just aching to try it out, I've always wanted to see the differnce in cracking points. My Micra, has a controll, but it does not apear to be cracking point (I could be wrong, [i wish i had 50 dives in 19 days, then i would know] ) it just makes it harder/softer to breathe. -- Mike Bradley http://gzen.myhq.info -- free online php tools >>....... >> If yer second stage is an antique designed for 10 psi ip, it's time to [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >could be wrong, [i wish i had 50 dives in 19 days, then i would know] ) it >just makes it harder/softer to breathe. Juat buy a TX-40 or TX-20 second stage from LeisurePro. If you absolutely have to have it with a yellow cover, they have those too. As an aside, I've been using a SP R-190 second as a back-up with my TX-100 for the last 20 or so dives. As long as you keep the venturi assist in the "off" position, it doesn't free flow at all. Prior to that I used a second TX-100 second stage as a backup, it it worked fine as well (then my daughter discovered it and decided it would be better replacement for the G200 that was in the shop). LIke Mike says, it's really not that big of a deal. The Micra might be a bit touchy, but de-tune it a bit and it should be fine. Alan > The down side -if you want to call it that- is that you absolutely > cannot use an unbalanced second stage for an octopus, because it will > start leaking and progessively leak harder, the deeper you descent. Not true. The S'Pro R190 is not balanced and used successfully on Apeks 1sts by many people. Come to think of it the same probably goes with my G200. Brian Edmonton, Alberta www.mossmanscubaventures.com > Not true. The S'Pro R190 is not balanced and used successfully on Apeks > 1sts by many people. Come to think of it the same probably goes with my [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Edmonton, Alberta > www.mossmanscubaventures.com I resemble that remark. I use a R190 as backup with an Apeks DST/TX50. I just don't think the Micra makes a good backup reg at all, and especially with an overbalanced Apeks first stage. ab Apeks markets their design with the words "Over-balanced first stage actually increases interstage pressure as you go deeper, compensating for the denser air". I have seen this explained by the use of a slightly larger outboard diaphragm than the inner diaphragm. The two are coupled by a rigid "hydrostatic transmitter", which is really a force transmitter rather than a pressure transmitter. It would be possible for such a system to increase IP somewhat (relative to ambient) as depth increases. OTOH, it may be just meaningless marketing hype. ab >>The new Apeks first stages are "overbalanced", i.e. the intermediate >>pressure is supposed to creep up as you go deeper. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > "Sure it's a lousy war, but it's the only war we've got." Colonel Bud > Reynolds, USMC Why not just pick up an ATX50 or ATX40 second stage from DiveInn or Leisurepro? A CTX50 (Euro version of the ATX50 - same reg, different sticker) is around $125 at LP. Jon > Hello everyone, I trust everyone had a good new year? > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Mike Bradley > http://gzen.myhq.info -- free online php tools > Why not just pick up an ATX50 or ATX40 second stage from DiveInn or > Leisurepro? A CTX50 (Euro version of the ATX50 - same reg, different > sticker) is around $125 at LP. > > Jon Hey thanks, I tooks a look at it, I just need to wait a week or so (money kinda tight right now). Every purchase I make turns into a couple bucks more. Reg: 149.95 TAX S&H new dodad to go with it... anyextra parts that go with it.... Its like getting a new toy without the batteries, its not the same, so I will have to wait until I can spare 200-250. -- Mike Bradley http://gzen.myhq.info -- free online php tools Total price for a NY shopper for the CTX50 from LP after shipping and tax: $142.92. > > Why not just pick up an ATX50 or ATX40 second stage from DiveInn or > > Leisurepro? A CTX50 (Euro version of the ATX50 - same reg, different [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Mike Bradley > http://gzen.myhq.info -- free online php tools > Hello everyone, I trust everyone had a good new year? > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Well, I apreciate any help. Why not bying a Y or H valve and using the Aqualung as a 2nd, independend regulator?  SignatureMichael Wolf ------------ Cthulhu for President! Why settle for the lesser evil? remove stopspam to reply Michael Wolf <michael.wolf@advalvasstopspam.be> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :Why not bying a Y or H valve and using the Aqualung as a 2nd, independend :regulator? Maybe he is a travelling diver. If so, that option simply isn't practical. Dan Bracuk If at first you don't succeed, you run the risk of failure. The Best of rec.scuba http://www.pathcom.com/~bracuk/RecScuba/ > Michael Wolf <michael.wolf@advalvasstopspam.be> pounded away at his > keyboard resulting in: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > If at first you don't succeed, you run the risk of failure. > The Best of rec.scuba http://www.pathcom.com/~bracuk/RecScuba/ Is not this option more expensive than buying a new octo? -- Mike Bradley http://gzen.myhq.info -- free online php tools >> Michael Wolf <michael.wolf@advalvasstopspam.be> pounded away at his >> keyboard resulting in: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Is not this option more expensive than buying a new octo? It's not that much more expensive and it would make your setup more failsafe. I think most of the regulars here dive that way. But Dan's right: if you're a travelling diver then it's not really an option. SignatureMichael Wolf ------------ Cthulhu for President! Why settle for the lesser evil? remove stopspam to reply > Hello everyone, I trust everyone had a good new year? > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Well, I apreciate any help. The symmetry of a side exhaust regulator is good. |
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