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Scuba Forum / General / January 2008Wetsuit Layering Question
I currently have a 3/2 full wetsuit which works fine around 80 degrees. I'd like to do some dives in water around 70 degrees. Looking at a Bare suit that is meant to layer over a wetsuit. Looks like shorty with no arms but with a hood. They make a 7mm and 5mm version. According to Bare when layering you should add up the two layers, then figure it's not going to be quite as warm as a solid suit of that thickness. The charts I've been looking at on the Net seem to say this combo will be fine, and I can always add gloves to the equation. If I layer this over my 3mm suit would that give me enough to dive in 70 degree water? I realize everybody is different, and I don't plan on doing long dives, but you never know. 3 + 7 would be (realistically) less than 10. 3 + 5 would be less than 8. Thanks. All thoughts welcome. I have 3mm booties, but no gloves yet. Sheldon Better make that 60 degrees. > Better make that 60 degrees. At 60F, I'd want a full 7mm Farmer John. Don't forget that by the time you're at ~100fsw, you're at 4ATM, so what started as 14mm on the torso is now somewhere in the neighborhood of 4-5mm. -hh >> Better make that 60 degrees. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > -hh Good point. At least the place I want to go is the same temp top to bottom -- it's an 80' crater. > Better make that 60 degrees. Don't know about layering, but once you get to 60 deg water you need max wetsuit: which means 5/7 suit with hood, boots and gloves. It makes sense that layering helps but is not as effective as solid neoprene. I've used an old 3/2 suit in the Red Sea where water temp was 72 but the air was hot and was quite comfortable. The air temp is important because you chill when you get out water wet. Also makes a difference if shore or boat diving. Adam > Better make that 60 degrees. At some point, a dry suit becomes cost-effective. Dress for the temperature, put on the suit, go diving. Some people I know can't stay warm wet in 60 degree water. (I'm OK wet well into the 40's if diving a single with no deco, but just as some campers sleep warm and don't need thick sleeping bags, I'm a warm diver. Wish I were also a warm sleeper camping, but them's the breaks.)  SignatureJohn Eells >> Better make that 60 degrees. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > campers sleep warm and don't need thick sleeping bags, I'm a warm diver. > Wish I were also a warm sleeper camping, but them's the breaks.) My idea of camping is a Winnebago with a shower, heat and AC. A good hotel is even better. > Better make that 60 degrees. That makes a difference... At 70F, I would think that the 3/2 would probably work for most single tank dives assuming the air temperature is warm enough before and after the dive... Hell, many of us have done 70F dives with no thermal protection whatsoever because the water felt so good after hiking through the woods to the site while carrying the tanks in 95+F weather... 60F on the other hand is a bit cool... A 3/2 in 60F water is noticeably cold to me, but in my case the 60F water was below the thermoclime and it was nearly 90F above the thermoclime... There's a balancing act between hypothermia and heatstroke in such situations... <grin> SignatureSee NNTP header field "X-Real-Email-Address" to reply by email. > Better make that 60 degrees. When you said 70 degrees, I thought no problem. But now that you say 60 degrees, I'd go with a 7 mm. I dove for 4 days during a trip with a split / layered suit that I own where the water temp was 70-ish. My suit is 3 mm on the arms and legs and then adds a torso cover with an extra 2 mm. I was warm enough. However, the remainder of that liveaboard went to waters in the 60's and I was very happy that I brought my 7 mm. You might want to reconsider your hood and gloves for 60 degree water and make them a bit heavier also. "Sheldon" <sheldon@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :I currently have a 3/2 full wetsuit which works fine around 80 degrees. I'd :like to do some dives in water around 70 degrees. Looking at a Bare suit [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] : :Thanks. All thoughts welcome. I have 3mm booties, but no gloves yet. My first thought is that it's better to have the armless shorty under your main suit not over. It will be warmer that way. My second thought is that the attached hood will be uncomfortable. My first suit had one and I ended up cutting it off and wearing one separately. My third thought is that if your 3/2 wetsuit has 2 mm legs and arms, it might not be warm enough. All things considered, consider getting a 2nd suit. Specifically, a 5 mm jumpsuit with a separate hood. You'll be warmer. Dan Bracuk Never use a big word when a diminutive one will do. >My second thought is that the attached hood will be uncomfortable. My >first suit had one and I ended up cutting it off and wearing one [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >All things considered, consider getting a 2nd suit. Specifically, a 5 >mm jumpsuit with a separate hood. You'll be warmer. My experience with a built in hood was that it bunched up around my neck leaving an open channel for cold water to circulate freely. I suppose the opposite problem would exist for someone with a particularly long neck in that the hood would be pulling all the time. The idea of the .5 mm skin isn't a bad one. You should get a skin anyway for warm water so it won't be a waste if it doesn't work for you. Having two layers to contain warmed water might just be enough for 60 degrees as long as you're not doing extended deco. JF > I currently have a 3/2 full wetsuit which works fine around 80 degrees. I'd > like to do some dives in water around 70 degrees. Looking at a Bare suit [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Sheldon I use a 1/2 mil dive skin under a full 3/2 with a hood , gloves & Booties. keeps me warm in ~70 degree water ; - but I move around quite a bit. at times I layer a long sleeved 3 mil over all That.. Does the job off N.Jersey , U.S.A at 70 feet in the summer. - just don't like the bulkiness of a full 7 mil. >> I currently have a 3/2 full wetsuit which works fine around 80 degrees. >> I'd [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > - just don't like the bulkiness of a full 7 mil. According to Bare, they think the layering will work well, and recommend the 7mm vest and hood. If I get too warm they claim I can simply push the hood back and unzip the vest a bit. It zippers up the font on an angle. Obviously, the way to go would be with a heavier suit, but I'm trying to be as versatile as I can get for the least amount of cash. I figure the 3/2 will get me by anywhere in the tropics, and if I get a chill I have a 3mm hood that's the real stretchy kind -- feels great. Rather than go for the 5mm vest and hood I'm thinking the 7mm will serve me better. Since the main suit has me sealed around the neck, arms and ankles, I should be able to adapt the 7mm for around 70 degrees and up. Obviously, this is all speculation and I won't know till I try it. > Obviously, > this is all speculation and I won't know till I try it. Don't forget that a Farmer John is two pieces, so you can always wear just half. Typically, the half to wear is the pants w/vest, since its the layer that goes under the jacket and will be more form-fitting. -hh -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :Don't forget that a Farmer John is two pieces, so you can always wear :just half. How many pieces? Dan Bracuk Never use a big word when a diminutive one will do. "Sheldon" <sheldon@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :I figure the 3/2 will get me by anywhere in the tropics, and if I get a :chill I have a 3mm hood that's the real stretchy kind -- feels great. :Rather than go for the 5mm vest and hood I'm thinking the 7mm will serve me :better. Since the main suit has me sealed around the neck, arms and ankles, :I should be able to adapt the 7mm for around 70 degrees and up. Obviously, :this is all speculation and I won't know till I try it. You're going to Belize right? Don't do anything until you make that trip. You may be less interested in cold water diving when you come back. Dan Bracuk Never use a big word when a diminutive one will do. > "Sheldon" <sheldon@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> pounded away at his keyboard > resulting in: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Dan Bracuk Makes sense, but my girlfriend wants to dive in the Blue Hole in NM (60 degrees) and I'd like to dive some reservoirs just outside of Denver -- all meltwater. Cold even in the summer. As much as I'd like to, I can't go to the tropics that often, so I'm left with mountain lakes. As you say, I'm not really that interested in cold water diving or I would get a dry suit. Just want the option if I can do it reasonably. The closest warm water diving to me is Homestead Crater, which is over 90 degrees all year. If it wasn't for my girlfriend, who "will not go diving in a hot tub," I probably wouldn't have started this thread. :-) "Sheldon" <sheldon@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: (replying to) :> You're going to Belize right? Don't do anything until you make that :> trip. You may be less interested in cold water diving when you come [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] :degrees) and I'd like to dive some reservoirs just outside of Denver -- all :meltwater. Take her to Belize with you. Dan Bracuk Never use a big word when a diminutive one will do. > "Sheldon" <sheldon@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> pounded away at his keyboard > resulting in: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Dan Bracuk We are both going. (Did you really think I was going to leave her behind?) I think we are using her mileage points to get there. :-) She also has friends there with a house, a plane and a boat. > > You're going to Belize right? Don't do anything until you make that > > trip. You may be less interested in cold water diving when you come > > back. > > > > Dan Bracuk Oh so true, so true. > Makes sense, but my girlfriend wants to dive in the Blue Hole in NM (60 > degrees) and I'd like to dive some reservoirs just outside of Denver -- all [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > degrees all year. If it wasn't for my girlfriend, who "will not go diving > in a hot tub," I probably wouldn't have started this thread. :-) Back in the day, I rented a 7mm. Can't you just do that until you decide what kind of diver you are going to be? >> > You're going to Belize right? Don't do anything until you make that >> > trip. You may be less interested in cold water diving when you come [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Back in the day, I rented a 7mm. Can't you just do that until you decide > what kind of diver you are going to be? That's assuming I can find a rental. I hear the Blue Hole is open 24/7, but the shop is only open on weekends, and the place is a zoo every weekend all year. I thought the layer would be a nice addition to my dive bag just in case, and the lakes and whatnot wouldn't be that often. If I lived near a clear lake I'd probably spring for a dry suit.
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