Scuba Forum / General / March 2008
Dear Greg:
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Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick - 27 Jan 2008 16:43 GMT Care to recap the numbers of Hillary's SC win?
 Signature Does anybody here really think that taking away the guns will stop killing? Or knives, or icepicks, or chains, or ropes, or baseball bats, or poisons, or cars & trucks. People are gonna kill people, and they'll always think of a new weapon if you take away the old ones. And just because I carry a potential weapon doesn't mean I intend to commit murder, or that I may be tempted to commit murder. I often carry a big ugly knife. Lots of my friends do too. I have never heard of anyone being tempted to use the knife on anyone just because they have it with them. You gotta be in the mood to do the killing and you use what's at hand. -Jeff Cooper
Popeye/ www.finalprotectivefire.com http://picasaweb.google.com/Popeye8762
Scott - 27 Jan 2008 16:59 GMT > Care to recap the numbers of Hillary's SC win? http://www.reuters.com/article/vcCandidateFeed7/idUSN2740059920080127
"With heavy support from black voters, Obama doubled Clinton's tally to win 55 percent to 27 percent. John Edwards finished third with 18 percent in a state he won during his failed 2004 race, casting fresh doubt on the future of his campaign."
Spanked.
Greg Mossman - 27 Jan 2008 17:14 GMT > > Care to recap the numbers of Hillary's SC win?
> "With heavy support from black voters, Obama doubled Clinton's tally to win > 55 percent to 27 percent. John Edwards finished third with 18 percent in a > state he won during his failed 2004 race, casting fresh doubt on the future > of his campaign." > > Spanked. And totally expected. Had Obama not won SC, Hillary would easily be the Democrat candidate in November. Now it just means that we have to let the big states handle it, the states that have individual cities with populations as big as Iowa and South Carolina. The two biggest, NY and CA, are firmly in Hillary's camp. We'll see about the rest.
"Change appears to be the most pressing demand for Democratic voters in California. Forty-seven percent of likely Democratic primary voters say change is a priority, with 31 percent favoring experience. Asked which Democrat is most likely to bring about change, they say Obama, by a 6-point margin.
"So why are they voting for Clinton? Because they think she can win. By 48 to 33 percent, they pick Clinton over Obama as the candidate with the best chance of beating the Republican in November. Obama's got the goods Democrats want. But Hillary closes the sale on electability," said CNN senior political analyst Bill Schneider."
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/14/california.poll/index.html
And Clinton is already still ahead of Obama in the number of delegates, 230 to 152.
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/scorecard/#D
Next Tuesday should prove interesting.
hierophantfish@hotmail.com - 28 Jan 2008 01:53 GMT > > > Care to recap the numbers of Hillary's SC win? > > "With heavy support from black voters, Obama doubled Clinton's tally to win [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Next Tuesday should prove interesting. I dunno Greg. I like Obama. So far, he has my vote.
hierophantfish@hotmail.com - 28 Jan 2008 01:51 GMT > > Care to recap the numbers of Hillary's SC win? > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Spanked. You voting for Obama ?
Curtis - 27 Jan 2008 17:59 GMT > Care to recap the numbers of Hillary's SC win? Can he supply his own cheese?
Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick - 11 Feb 2008 08:40 GMT Wow.
Campaign going bankrupt, smoked this weekend in 4 states by the rookie, and her campaign manager tanks.
Ouch...
 Signature "To ban guns because criminals use them is to tell the innocent and law-abiding that their rights and liberties depend not on their own conduct, but on the conduct of the guilty and the lawless, and that the law will permit them to have only such rights and liberties as the lawless will allow... For society does not control crime, ever, by forcing the law-abiding to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of criminals. Society controls crime by forcing the criminals to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of the law-abiding." ~Jeff Snyder~
Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick - 13 Feb 2008 05:42 GMT Greg, can you recap Hillary's wins today for us?
Oh, and:
"None of us give a sh.t. Take your podium somewhere where people care. This is a scuba forum."
 Signature --
Not a claim, merely an observation, Joe. Can you honestly say that in these discussions your ego hasn't swelled even a little with renewed pride over the superiority your guns provide over lesser mortals? -JOF
Popeye/www.finalprotectivefire.com
Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick - 16 Feb 2008 12:50 GMT Putin vs. Clinton
When Hillary Clinton said, way back in New Hampshire, that Vladimir Putin "doesn't have a soul," I figured that would be the sort of thing the Russian wouldn't be pleased about. But when I called the foreign ministry the next day for comment, it was Orthodox Christmas, and I let it slide.
He was asked about the remark at his press conference yesterday, however, and indeed wasn't pleased.
The former KGB lieutenant colonel appeared to lash out at U.S. Sen. Hillary Clinton - a leading Democratic candidate for president - when one reporter quoted her as saying that former KGB officers have no soul:
"At a minimum, a head of state should have a head," Putin said.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0208/Putin_vs_Clinton.html
Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick - 20 Feb 2008 05:09 GMT "Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick" <Popeye@finalprotectivefire.com> wrote in message news:...
> Greg, can you recap Hillary's wins today for us? > > Oh, and: > > "None of us give a sh.t. Take your podium somewhere where people > care. This is a scuba forum."
 Signature --
Not a claim, merely an observation, Joe. Can you honestly say that in these discussions your ego hasn't swelled even a little with renewed pride over the superiority your guns provide over lesser mortals? -JOF
Popeye/www.finalprotectivefire.com
Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick - 24 Feb 2008 19:07 GMT Submitted without opinion, while ducking and running. :-)
URL: http://www.salon.com/news/col/horo/1999/08/16/naacp
Guns don't kill black people, other blacks do
The NAACP's ludicrous idea to sue gun manufacturers is yet another attempt by the left to avoid personal responsibility for some individuals' bad behavior.
- - - - - - - - - - - - By David Horowitz
When the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People announced plans recently to file an injunctive class-action suit "to force [gun manufacturers] to distribute their product responsibly," the NAACP president, Kweisi Mfume, noted that gun violence takes a disproportionately high toll among young black males.
According to an NAACP press release, African-American males between the ages of 15 and 24 are almost five times more likely to be injured by firearms than are white males in the same age group. "Firearm homicide has been the leading cause of death among young African-American males for nearly 30 years," it stated.
Am I alone in seeing this as an absurd act of political desperation by the civil rights establishment? What's next? Will Irish-Americans sue whiskey distillers, or Jews the gas company?
That last analogy only works, of course, for those who think the Holocaust was a self-inflicted wound. In fact, black leaders have already accused white and Korean liquor vendors of "invading" black communities and intoxicating their inhabitants. Boycotts have followed these charges, and anti-white, anti-Korean race riots as well.
But who forces alcohol down reluctant throats? And who makes guns shoot in ways that victimize blacks more than whites?
How can the NAACP even make the comparison between gun deaths of blacks and whites, if not as a racist insinuation that whites are somehow the cause of those "disproportionate" violent deaths, just as whites are the implied cause of nearly every other social pathology that afflicts the African-American community?
In the sociology of the left, including the NAACP, there cannot be a wound the black community inflicts on itself that is not ultimately the responsibility of malicious whites. To think otherwise would be to "blame the victim." Only mean-spirited conservatives (like me) would even think of doing that.
The fact is that while blacks make up only 12 percent of the population, they account for 46 percent of total violent crime and 90 percent of the murders of other blacks. It is they, not whites or gun manufacturers, who are responsible for the disproportionate gun deaths of young black males.
Firearms don't kill people. Sociopaths do. It takes a human brain to pull the trigger. If young black males abuse firearms in an irresponsible and criminal fashion, why should the firearm industry be held accountable? Why not their parents? Why not themselves?
Unfortunately, as a nation we have become so trapped in the melodrama of black victimization and white oppression that we are in danger of losing all sense of proportion. If blacks are oppressed in America, why isn't there a black exodus? Why do all those black Haitians want to come here? To be oppressed?
In the grips of a politically inspired group psychosis, we find it natural to collude with demagogic race hustlers in support of a fantasy in which African-Americans are no longer responsible for anything negative they do, even to themselves.
If blacks constitute just under half the prison population, for example, that cannot be allowed to suggest that the black community might have a problem when it comes to raising its children as law-abiding members of society. Oh no. Such a statistic can only be explained by the racism of a criminal justice system that is incarcerating too many blacks.
Nonsense like this is proposed daily by the entire spectrum of the civil rights leadership from racist bloviator Al Sharpton to urbane Urban League President Hugh Price. Against the intimidating atmosphere this consensus creates, to suggest the obvious -- that too many blacks are in prison because blacks commit too many crimes -- is to be identified as an apologist for racism, and perhaps even a closet racist oneself.
The NAACP's anti-gun lawsuit comes on the heels of the crusade to defend crack dealers because 90 percent of them are African-American and their sentences are considered "too harsh." This insipid campaign was launched by Jesse Jackson at the Washington rally of race-hater Louis Farrakhan.
That 90 percent of crack cocaine dealers are black cannot be seen, of course, as a moral stain on those crack dealers or as a massive social problem for the community that produces them. It can only be the result of a white legal system that stigmatizes crack as a more dangerous and more culpable drug than the powder cocaine it uses itself.
Forget that the heavier penalties were originally demanded by black leaders who claimed that crack was associated with street violence in the black community and the white criminal justice system did not care enough about its destructive consequences to make the penalties harsh.
That was then, this is now. And now, lessening the sentences that were previously raised has become a crusade for "social justice" that overshadows the need to combat the crime wave itself. Because racial oppression is the main enemy, the villainy of the crack trade is transformed into yet another symbol of white unfairness.
This kind of race baiting has now intruded into the presidential contest as a means of smearing the Republican leader, George W. Bush, who is distinguished by his outreach to minority communities and by his support among blacks. Is there a vast left-wing conspiracy that sees Bush's black support as a political threat?
Well, of course there is. It is precisely because Bush is perceived as a candidate who can break the vicious stereotyping of Republicans as anti-black that he has to be smeared. Bush was thus labeled Governor Death in a Christopher Hitchens column.
The clear implication of Hitchens' attack was that Bush is collusive in a racist justice system in Texas that executes blacks in disproportionate numbers. "Perhaps you wonder if capital punishment is unevenly applied, as respects race and class, in the state of Texas," wrote Hitchens. "Wonder no longer. Just read the Amnesty report Killing With Prejudice: Race and the Death Penalty in the USA."
Well, Christopher, I read the Amnesty report. Maybe you should, too. The Amnesty report does not even mention racial or class statistics in Texas and could not possibly be used to draw such a conclusion. Moreover, a perusal of the report reveals no self-evident truths even nationally. Rather, it is a slovenly produced, inflammatory document.
Under the heading "Racist Representation of Indigent Defendants," for example, it offers this evidence: "Gary Burns, black, executed in Indiana on 20 November 1997, was described to the jury by his white attorney as an 'insignificant, snivelly little street person.'" End of example.
What is this supposed to prove? That someone else must have done the dirty work because Burns was too weak to be guilty of it himself? Who can tell from this example? Most of the report consists of unsystematic and frustratingly brief snippets of cases like this, combined with a sprinkling of unanalyzed statistics that are arrayed to serve a partisan agenda.
It is true that the number of blacks executed in Texas (and nationwide) is greater than their proportion in the population. But it is also true that the proportion of black murderers far exceeds the proportion of blacks in the population at large. According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics 1996 report (released May 1999), blacks commit 54 percent of the homicides in America even though they constitute only 12 percent of the population.
An individual black male is eight times more likely to commit murder than an individual white male. Thus, in the most equitable system imaginable, a black male would be eight times more likely than a white male to be executed for murder.
In fact, however, convicted white murderers are more likely to be executed for their crimes than convicted black murderers. In 1996-97, whites accounted for 62 percent of the convicted murderers executed in Texas. According to statistics provided by the Justice Department, the proportion of whites presently on death row compared to the total white population is almost four times that of the comparable proportion of blacks on death row in terms of the total black population.
Whatever these statistics prove, it is not that justice in America is systemically biased against blacks. But the desperation to prove white turpitude is so great that instead of celebrating this as a triumph of civil rights reform in the law, the race baiters merely shift their focus to the victims of capital crimes.
Thus the statistic with which Amnesty opens its case is this: "Of the 500 prisoners executed between 1977 and 1998," according to Amnesty, "81.8 [percent] were convicted of murdering a white person, even though blacks and whites are the victims of homicide in almost equal numbers nationwide."
No attempt is made of course to explain how the criminal justice system might systematically discriminate in favor of white victims but not against black defendants (except by this indirect method). What the report's raw statistic fails to take into account is that the death penalty is only imposed in aggravated circumstances, which can include the violence of the crime, whether it is committed in the course of another crime or whether the perpetrator has a prior criminal record of violent crimes.
All these factors are ignored in the Amnesty report. It so happens that black felons commit 43 percent of aggravated assaults, 66 percent of armed robberies, 27 percent of rapes and 85 percent of interracial crimes of violence, mainly against whites (this last figure from a Justice Department report for 1993).
Since juries generally don't demand the death penalty for crimes of passion, where the victim is known to the killer, and since blacks are far more likely to commit violent crimes against whites than are whites against blacks, the disparity that offends Amnesty may not imply a racial bias on the part of prosecutors and juries at all. The report does not even acknowledge this as a problem.
The defense of criminals as a civil rights cause is only an extreme manifestation of what has apparently become the very essence of the civil rights movement. Do black children fail to achieve in school? White oppression explains their failure. (Nothing else could without blaming the victims.)
Poor black academic performance cannot be seen as a failure of black families to educate their children, or of the black community to support educational values, which are often referred to derisively as "thinking white." Black failure can only be the result of some lingering residue of the white perfidy involved in slavery and segregation. Call it "institutional racism."
Of course, those who invoke the phantom of "institutional racism" are too sophisticated to claim that there are actual racists lodged in our liberal education establishment who refuse to admit black children to legally integrated schools or refuse to teach them when they get there.
Instead, the concept of "institutional racism" is made to encompass an entire system of oppression that invisibly conspires to keep black children down. It may do so through culturally rigged tests; or through the failure to provide black role models in positions of authority; or by providing only underfunded schools to black neighborhoods; or as a result of the pervasive negative pressure exerted by an environment of poverty that cannot be countered with a mere six hours of school. (And, indeed, compulsory preschool is already being proposed by Al Gore and the left as a new social cure-all.)
In reality, the failure of African-American children to make the educational grade cannot be explained by any of the above factors. Statistics analyzed by the New York Times (July 4, 1999) dispel the poverty argument by establishing that impoverished white children whose parents earn less than $10,000 a year score higher on standardized SAT tests than black children whose parents earn more than $70,000.
None of the above arguments, moreover, can explain why Vietnamese children who are poor and discriminated against, whose schools are underfunded and who are culturally at a greater disadvantage than blacks, and have even fewer "role models" to inspire them, still manage to be educationally competitive.
While the oppression theme dominates public discourse, no attention is paid to the real problems that hold African-American children back. There is a symbiosis, in fact, between the political mumbo jumbo of the Kweisi Mfumes and Jesse Jacksons (abetted mightily by patronizing white liberals) and the seemingly intractable social problems of the black community.
The myth of racial oppression, invoked to explain every social deficit of blacks, is an exercise in psychological denial. Crying racism deflects attention from the actual causes of the problems that afflict African-American communities. Its net result is to deprive people and communities who could help themselves of the power to change their fate.
Nearly 70 percent of black children are born out of wedlock. A child raised in a single-parent, female-headed household is six times more likely to be poor than a child of any color born into a two-parent household. Seventy percent of youth violence is committed by males from female-headed households, regardless of race.
If the NAACP and other black leaders want to end the terrible scourge of gun violence committed by young inner-city blacks, they should launch a campaign to promote marriage and family formation in the African-American community; they should issue a moral plea to the community to stigmatize fathers who abandon their children and parents who have more children than they can afford.
Instead of waging war against law enforcement agencies and supporting destructive racial demagogues like Al Sharpton, they should support the Rudy Giulianis and other champions of public safety, whom they now attack. They should campaign for a tripling of police forces in inner-city areas to protect the vast majority of inhabitants who are law-abiding and who are the true victims of the predators among them.
But to take these remedial steps would require rejecting the bogus charge of white oppression. It would mean abandoning the ludicrous claim that white America and firearms manufacturers are the cause of the problems afflicting African-Americans. It would mean taking responsibility for their own communities instead. salon.com | August 16, 1999
http://www.salon.com/news/col/horo/1999/08/16/naacp/print.html
Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick - 20 Mar 2008 03:13 GMT Throw Grandma Under the Bus by Ann Coulter
Obama gave a nice speech, except for everything he said about race. He apparently believes we're not talking enough about race. This is like hearing Britney Spears say we're not talking enough about pop-tarts with substance-abuse problems.
By now, the country has spent more time talking about race than John Kerry has talked about Vietnam, John McCain has talked about being a POW, John Edwards has talked about his dead son, and Al Franken has talked about his USO tours.
But the "post-racial candidate" thinks we need to talk yet more about race. How much more? I had had my fill by around 1974. How long must we all marinate in the angry resentment of black people? Continued
As an authentic post-racial American, I will not patronize blacks by pretending Obama's pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, is anything other than a raving racist loon. If a white pastor had said what Rev. Wright said -- not about black people, but literally, the exact same things -- I think we'd notice that he's crazier than Ward Churchill and David Duke's love child. (Indeed, both Churchill and the Rev. Wright referred to the attacks of 9/11 as the chickens coming "home to roost.")
Imagine a white pastor saying: "Racism is the American way. Racism is how this country was founded, and how this country is still run. ... We believe in white supremacy and black inferiority. And believe it more than we believe in God."
Imagine a white pastor calling Condoleezza Rice, "Condoskeezza Rice."
Imagine a white pastor saying: "No, no, no, God damn America -- that's in the Bible for killing innocent people! God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human! God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme!"
We treat blacks like children, constantly talking about their temper tantrums right in front of them with airy phrases about black anger. I will not pat blacks on the head and say, "Isn't that cute?" As a post-racial American, I do not believe "the legacy of slavery" gives black people the right to be permanently ill-mannered.
Obama tried to justify Wright's deranged rants by explaining that "legalized discrimination" is the "reality in which Rev. Wright and other African-Americans of his generation grew up." He said that a "lack of economic opportunity among black men, and the shame and frustration that came from not being able to provide for one's family, contributed to the erosion of black families."
That may accurately describe the libretto of "Porgy and Bess," but it has no connection to reality. By Rev. Wright's own account, he was 12 years old and was attending an integrated school in Philadelphia when Brown v. Board of Education was announced, ending "separate but equal" schooling.
Meanwhile, at least since the Supreme Court's decision in University of California v. Bakke in 1978 -- and obviously long before that, or there wouldn't have been a case or controversy for the court to consider -- it has been legal for the government to discriminate against whites on the basis of their race.
Consequently, any white person 30 years old or younger has lived, since the day he was born, in an America where it is legal to discriminate against white people. In many cases it's not just legal, but mandatory, for example, in education, in hiring and in Academy Award nominations.
So for half of Rev. Wright's 66 years, discrimination against blacks was legal -- though he never experienced it personally because it existed in a part of the country where he did not live. For the second half of Wright's life, discrimination against whites was legal throughout the land.
Discrimination has become so openly accepted that -- in a speech meant to tamp down his association with a black racist -- Obama felt perfectly comfortable throwing his white grandmother under the bus. He used her as the white racist counterpart to his black racist "old uncle," Rev. Wright.
First of all, Wright is not Obama's uncle. The only reason we indulge crazy uncles is that everyone understands that people don't choose their relatives the way they choose, for example, their pastors and mentors. No one quarrels with idea that you can't be expected to publicly denounce your blood relatives.
But Wright is not a relative of Obama's at all. Yet Obama cravenly compared Wright's racist invective to his actual grandmother, who "once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe."
Rev. Wright accuses white people of inventing AIDS to kill black men, but Obama's grandmother -- who raised him, cooked his food, tucked him in at night, and paid for his clothes and books and private school -- has expressed the same feelings about passing black men on the street that Jesse Jackson has.
Unlike his "old uncle" -- who is not his uncle -- Obama had no excuses for his grandmother. Obama's grandmother never felt the lash of discrimination! Crazy grandma doesn't get the same pass as the crazy uncle; she's white. Denounce the racist!
Fine. Can we move on now?
No, of course, not. It never ends. To be fair, Obama hinted that we might have one way out: If we elect him president, then maybe, just maybe, we can stop talking about race.
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