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Scuba Forum / General / January 2008

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Getting someone on the fence to try SCUBA

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Jason A. - 14 Jan 2008 04:08 GMT
Hi all,

I took SCUBA a while ago (needed a credit to stay full time in college),
and enjoyed it.  I'll admit, I've not done a lot of diving since then,
but want to get back into it.  I'd also like to get my wife involved,
rather than getting teamed up with someone I've never met, or worse,
leaving her on the dock while I'm out enjoying myself.

She does enjoy swimming, and we just recently went snorkeling in Hawaii,
so I think I shouldn't have too much trouble.

What I'm looking for, are any suggestions on things I can show her that
she *might* see while diving.  Also, anything from around Lake Huron
(Michigan, USA) would also help (we live outside Detroit, and going
somewhere that's a "dive spot" every year is way out of the budget)

Thanks all,
Jason
dechucka - 14 Jan 2008 05:12 GMT
> Hi all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> Thanks all,
> Jason

Take her snorkelling anywhere. If she likes it she may want to dive.

Not to bad to be married to a non diving partner ( wife can't dive severe
asthma ) just needs more planning
Star - 14 Jan 2008 13:31 GMT
> > Hi all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> Not to bad to be married to a non diving partner ( wife can't dive severe
> asthma ) just needs more planning

And it's a great deal cheaper... when you get new gear, no one says -
hey where's mine........

Snorkeling  in cold, fresh water just isn't my thing, personally, as
there isn't much to see unless you take her to Gilboa (not all that
far from Detroit) to look at the paddlefish.

Lake Huron has some awesome wreck diving, and that's pretty much the
big attraction.  Panama City Beach is maybe a 13 hour drive, and you
can get some reasonable diver-lodging or camping to make the vacation
more affordable, but there's no shore diving unless you count that
pitiful jetty at the state park. Maybe take her to a pool "discover
Scuba" or something?

Reluctant SO's are sometimes best left at that - they can make
themselves and you (and the instructor) miserable if they are learning
to dive due to pressure from a loved one.  You can encourage, but I
wouldn't push.

*
-hh - 14 Jan 2008 13:58 GMT
> > Take her snorkelling anywhere. If she likes it she may want to dive.

Where "anywhere" is someplace with warm water and interesting life.
For exposure to how the scuba divers "live", you could try someplace
like Little Cayman, where the very shallow walls allow for snorkelers
and divers to coexist in nearly-but-not-quite the same reef ...
provides the temptation to tolerate the gear and training so as to get
closer to what she sees you at, a mere 10-20ft below.

There's other good destinations .. Bonaire shore diving is another
obvious one .. main thing is to find out how comfortable she really is
snorkeling before planning on making it a major (for her) element of a
particular vacation.

> Snorkeling  in cold, fresh water just isn't my thing, personally, as
> there isn't much to see unless you take her to Gilboa (not all that
> far from Detroit) to look at the paddlefish.

Perhaps Crystal River in Florida in the winter, to snorkel with
manatees.

> Reluctant SO's are sometimes best left at that - they can make
> themselves and you (and the instructor) miserable if they are learning
> to dive due to pressure from a loved one.  You can encourage, but I
> wouldn't push.

Never push.  Also don't ever complain about carrying along her
snorkeling gear on trips where it doesn't even get touched but once.

-hh
Lee Bell - 14 Jan 2008 16:25 GMT
>Where "anywhere" is someplace with warm water and interesting life.
>For exposure to how the scuba divers "live", you could try someplace
>like Little Cayman, where the very shallow walls allow for snorkelers
>and divers to coexist in nearly-but-not-quite the same reef ...
>provides the temptation to tolerate the gear and training so as to get
>closer to what she sees you at, a mere 10-20ft below.

Personally, I like shore diving off Grand Cayman. Right off Eden Rock is one
of the nicest shallow water reefs I know of, both for divers and for
snorkelers.

> Snorkeling in cold, fresh water just isn't my thing, personally, as
> there isn't much to see unless you take her to Gilboa (not all that
> far from Detroit) to look at the paddlefish.

> Perhaps Crystal River in Florida in the winter, to snorkel with
> manatees.

Snorkeling with manatees is special, but there's an even better opportunity
in the same area. The problem with snorkeling with the manatees is that the
parts of the river that they hand out in are deadly boring except for the
manatees themselves. There's nothing pretty about it. Drifting the Rainbow
River, just a bit north of Crystal River, is a treat not to be missed. The
water is crystal clear and there's lots of interesting life and other things
to look at. Best of all, it's good for both snorkeling and diving. Done in
groups, your wife can snorkel it with others that don't while watching you
cruising along right below her. If that doesn't trigger her desire to dive,
you're probably not going to succeed.

The one thing you need to make very sure of is that neither you, nor her,
has a problem that even appears to be serious, on any of these trips. Until
she's firmly hooked on diving, it will not take much of a problem to turn
her against it for life.

Lee
Star - 15 Jan 2008 04:06 GMT
> > > Take her snorkelling anywhere. If she likes it she may want to dive.

> > Reluctant SO's are sometimes best left at that - they can make
> > themselves and you (and the instructor) miserable if they are learning
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> -hh

exactly - you should always carry her gear - to the car when you are
packing, to the dive site, onto the boat, back to the car, and put
back away in the garage, all rinsed and hung.  You should also always
keep her tanks filled with her preferred gas mix and visualed and
hydro-ed and her regulators serviced.  It's a good move as well to
cook dinner every night and do all the laundry and cleaning.

:-)

*
i'm much more than a princess but you don't have a name for it yet
here on earth.
Scott - 15 Jan 2008 04:14 GMT
> > > > Take her snorkelling anywhere. If she likes it she may want to dive.
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> :-)

Yeah.

I heard that too.

Funny thing is that the chicks with their sh.t together don't need anyone to
pack their gear.

Where do we go from that?
dechucka - 15 Jan 2008 04:16 GMT
>> > > > Take her snorkelling anywhere. If she likes it she may want to
>> > > > dive.
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> to
> pack their gear.

you mean your "chick" doesn't your gear?
dechucka - 15 Jan 2008 04:18 GMT
>>> > > > Take her snorkelling anywhere. If she likes it she may want to
>>> > > > dive.
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>
> you mean your "chick" doesn't your gear?

maybe a pack in there somewhere
Star - 15 Jan 2008 04:25 GMT
> > > > > Take her snorkelling anywhere. If she likes it she may want to dive.
>
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
> Where do we go from that?

I never said "need."

;-)

*
Scott - 15 Jan 2008 04:30 GMT
> > Yeah.

> > I heard that too.

> > Funny thing is that the chicks with their sh.t together don't need anyone to
> > pack their gear.

> > Where do we go from that?

> I never said "need."

Touché

See what I mean?
Star - 15 Jan 2008 05:14 GMT
> > > Yeah.
> > > I heard that too.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> See what I mean?

I see what *I* mean :-)

*
Lee Bell - 15 Jan 2008 09:45 GMT
I forgot something. The bed linins need to be washed at least twice a year.

Lee
-hh - 15 Jan 2008 14:44 GMT
> I forgot something. The bed linins...

And here I was expecting a comment on cleaning the Cat Box.  :-)

-hh
Lee Bell - 15 Jan 2008 15:07 GMT
>> I forgot something. The bed linins...

> And here I was expecting a comment on cleaning the Cat Box.  :-)

I didn't even think of that. Jayna's the cat person in the family. I grew up
with dogs.  She takes care of the litter box. I get to do the fun stuff,
taking lizards out of the cat's mouth, holding it while we give it
medication or check an injury and taking it to the vet, you know, the
hazardous duties..

Lee
Dan Bracuk - 16 Jan 2008 03:59 GMT
"Lee Bell" <pleebell@bellsouth.net> pounded away at his keyboard
resulting in:

:I forgot something. The bed linins need to be washed at least twice a year.

Why?

Dan Bracuk
Never use a big word when a diminutive one will do.
Grumman-581 - 16 Jan 2008 04:11 GMT
> "Lee Bell" <pleebell@bellsouth.net> pounded away at his keyboard resulting
> in:
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Why?

Some of us get laid more often and have to wash them more than twice a
year... YMMV, of course...

Hell, back in college, I can remember Grace and I needing to wash them
*daily*... <dirty-old-man-grin>

With one or the other of us working out of town these days, we're lucky to
have to wash them *weekly*...

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Dan Bracuk - 16 Jan 2008 03:58 GMT
"Scott" <pugetsounddiver@gmail.com> pounded away at his keyboard
resulting in:

:Funny thing is that the chicks with their sh.t together don't need anyone to
:pack their gear.
:
:Where do we go from that?

Do it anyway.

Dan Bracuk
Never use a big word when a diminutive one will do.
Lee Bell - 15 Jan 2008 09:43 GMT
> exactly - you should always carry her gear - to the car when you are
> packing, to the dive site, onto the boat, back to the car, and put
> back away in the garage, all rinsed and hung.  You should also always
> keep her tanks filled with her preferred gas mix and visualed and
> hydro-ed and her regulators serviced.  It's a good move as well to
> cook dinner every night and do all the laundry and cleaning.

Absolutely. There are, however, special skills involved. We don't normally
share this information with women, but after all, you guys are fellow
divers.

When doing the laundry, for example, be sure to wash her white undies with
her red outfits. Pink is a pretty color on women. You should put bleach in
with the white stuff. Wash the black stuff next. Tie die is back in style.
Finally, and most important, be sure to dry her wool sweaters on the hot
cycle of the dryer. Everyone woman wants to be shapely and a favorite
sweater about the right size for a Barbie doll is a great incentive. Save
money by reusing conditioner sheets. scratchy clothes build character. The
time to do the towels is when she's taking a shower. She'll be happy when
you finally return them. Wait to turn the washer on until she's got shampoo
in her eyes. If you really want to have fun, flush a toilet at the same
time. Pink is such a pretty color on women.

Lee
Who has been forbidden to touch the laundry for years.
Star - 15 Jan 2008 12:52 GMT
> > exactly - you should always carry her gear - to the car when you are
> > packing, to the dive site, onto the boat, back to the car, and put
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> Lee
> Who has been forbidden to touch the laundry for years.

Then you are relegated to taking out trash, grocery shopping and
cooking, vacuuming, and all yard work.

*, who escaped lawn-mowing years ago using much the same technique.
Grumman-581 - 15 Jan 2008 13:04 GMT
> Then you are relegated to taking out trash, grocery shopping and cooking,
> vacuuming, and all yard work.

Vecuuming was cured by 'accidentally' vacuuming up something of her's that
she left laying around... <evil-grin>

> *, who escaped lawn-mowing years ago using much the same technique.

Cutting through the electrical cord with the hedge trimmers is a good way
to get banished from yard work...

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Lee Bell - 15 Jan 2008 14:15 GMT
>> Lee
>> Who has been forbidden to touch the laundry for years.

> Then you are relegated to taking out trash, grocery shopping and
> cooking, vacuuming, and all yard work.

My wife can't stand it if the garbage does not go out the night before. I
don't care when it goes out as long as it goes out. If I mss the garbage
man, well that's why I bought a trash compactor. She usually takes the
garbage out.

She won't even let me go with her to go shopping. I think it has something
to do with coming home with what I like instead of what she likes, or coming
home with twice as much as we have storage for. Have I mentioned I'm an
impulse buyer? She also absolutely hates the way I shop. I'm not quite sure
what the problem is. She says I wander all over the store, taking forever. I
do, but you have to look around to find out what you want. Sometimes I don't
think of it until I'm past the row where it is. Have I mentioned that I'm an
impulse buyer? I know it sounds inconsistent, but I don't ever go shopping
without a list of what I'm going to get. Us impulse buyers are easily
distracted from our original purpose. That might be another reason I don't
get to go shopping often.

> *, who escaped lawn-mowing years ago using much the same technique.

We're both reasonably good cooks. Generally, I am the more creative cook.
That means it often takes me longer to put dinner together than it does if
she does it. She's not all that patient. Some things I cook, some things she
cooks. It's a job for her, a hobby for me.

We both vacuum too. I get the big jobs, she cleans up after me. When we took
the Christmas tree out, for example, I got the job of getting the bulk of
the dead needles up off the floor. My shop vac does a pretty good job of it,
but doesn't get everything on the first pass. She comes along with her
upright and gets what I leave behind. Neither of us vacuums if we can't see
anything on the floor. Dust that has settled in, is not visible. The maid
takes care of that. More on that later.

Yard work is supposed to be my job. Way back when we were just living
together, I had finished mowing the yard and asked her to help me rake and
pick up the grass. My position is, and I'm right, that a job shared with
somebody you love goes faster and can actually be fun. She didn't agree. She
stated, in no uncertain terms, that outside the house was my responsibility,
inside was hers. I hired a lawn service the next day and sold the lawn
mower, edger and most other yard tools shortly thereafter. I haven't mowed a
lawn in 15 years.

Here's the part about the maid. About 10 years after I had hired a lawn
service, my wife came and asked me if it was OK for her to hire a maid to
come in every other week to take care of stuff both of us hate. My response
was "Of course, what took you so long to ask?" When I hired the law service,
I figured she'd hire help for inside the house almost immediately. It never
occurred to me to suggest it, though. After all, inside the house is hers.

In reality, inside the house, we both tend to do what we care about most.
She absolutely will not get in a bed that has not been made. I could care
less. She normally gets up first, so I have a choice. I can get up where she
does or I can make up the bed when I do get up. Most often, I make the bed.
Apparently, my wife does not care about clean counter tops or sinks. I, on
the other hand, can't stand them to be dirty. I don't think my wife has
cleaned the sink in 10 years. I do it at least once a day, sometimes more
often.

What we both don't care about, cleaning bathrooms and dusting (within reason
in both cases), the maid handles.

It's a good working relationship.

Oh yes, one more thing. She figured out how to deal with the laundry thing.
She drives to work. I usually work at home. She got in the habit of spending
a whole day on the weekend doing laundry. We're supposed to do things
together on weekends. Since I could not get her to do a load of laundry each
night, I had the choice of learning to do it her way or putting up with
spending a day sitting on my hands while she did it on the weekend. I
learned to do it her way . . .at least while she's watching. I do a load of
whatever has accumulated enough on most week days even though I've been
banned from doing so.

My way of doing laundry:
Separate things by those that wrinkle if left in the washer or dryer and
those that don't. Colors are not important. Stuff as much in the large
capacity washing machine and dryer as will fit. What's a fabric softener?
Her way of doing laundry:
Separate things by color. Take everything out of the washer as soon as it's
done. Take stuff out of the dryer when it's done. Jeans and dress shirts of
similar colors go in the same load. All loads are small, very small. Towels
only go with other towels, sheets and pillow cases go together, not with
anything else. Don't even think of failing to put a fabric softener sheet in
the dryer. More than one is good.

My way of keeping peace in the household? I do several things without fail:
1. Always, she gets a kiss when I leave the house or she does, even if it's
to run to the local store.
2. She gets told how much I love her several times a day, every day, whether
I'm home or not. When I'm on the road, I call at least once every day,
sometimes twice. We email each other several times a day too. Last year, we
took separate vacations. I went shooting in Wyoming with Rick Simms, she
went on a cruise with Rick's wife. They were out of phone range for most of
a week. I hated it. We won't do that any more, even if it means I have to
get on a damned cruise ship every few years.
3. I say "Yes Dear" a lot.
4. While I maintain veto power over almost everything, I very, very rarely
exercise it.
5. I make good money and pay all the large bills. She doesn't even see them.
She takes care of the smaller stuff. It's a partnership based on sharing,
not on who does what or how much.
6. Did I mention I'm an impulse buyer? My impulses are just as likely to
result in something for her as something for me, maybe more so.

Lee
Greg Mossman - 15 Jan 2008 18:23 GMT
> I hired a lawn service the next day and sold the lawn
> mower, edger and most other yard tools shortly thereafter. I haven't mowed a
> lawn in 15 years.

> What we both don't care about, cleaning bathrooms and dusting (within reason
> in both cases), the maid handles.

Just curious, especially since you live in an area with a large
immigrant population, are the people that mow your lawn and clean your
house all verified citizens or legal residents?
Lee Bell - 14 Jan 2008 16:18 GMT
> Reluctant SO's are sometimes best left at that - they can make
> themselves and you (and the instructor) miserable if they are learning
> to dive due to pressure from a loved one.  You can encourage, but I
> wouldn't push.

Sage advice once again.

Most of us that learned to dive over the years, decided we wanted to on our
own. More often than not, we snorkeled first, freedived second and scuba
dived last. Getting your SO interested that way, living in the north, is not
going to be as easy as it was for me, living in Florida. A lot of people
have managed to turn their significant others completely off on diving by
pressuring them to try before they are ready.

My suggestion is that you do one of two things:
1. Plan vacations in places with interesting snorkeling in depths from 15 to
30 feet. That's shallow enough to enjoy snorkeling, but deep enough to want
to get closer to whatever she finds interesting. When the desire to see more
and the opportunity to learn to dive occur at the same time, you'll have
your chance.
2. Find a different dive buddy and accept that fact that your wife may never
decide she wants to dive too. Even if you chose this option, there's no
reason you can't take her snorkeling occasionally.

Lee
Jason A. - 15 Jan 2008 00:18 GMT
Yeah, I have *no* intention of pushing her.  Gently encouraging, sure,
push no.  When I first met her, we went to a pool a couple times
swimming, she was afraid of getting into water over her head.  With some
encouragement from me, and letting her set the pace, she'll now swim
anywhere.

I'll have to find out if the dive shop we went to for her fins for
Hawaii has the "discover SCUBA," in part because she really liked the
one sales lady who worked with her on getting fins and boots.  The lady
didn't push her towards anything, actually suggested she get the
inexpensive, discounted, on clearance fins, rather than a more expensive
set.

[SNIP]
> Maybe take her to a pool "discover
> Scuba" or something?
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> *
ScubaZine - 15 Jan 2008 00:54 GMT
> Yeah, I have *no* intention of pushing her.  Gently encouraging, sure,
> push no.  When I first met her, we went to a pool a couple times
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>>
>> *
I notice in Texas the YMCA is running a free introductory Scuba course

http://www.scubazine.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=525

Maybe something similar in your area?

Lee
Dan Bracuk - 16 Jan 2008 03:57 GMT
"Jason A." <jash7165@wideopenwest.com> pounded away at his keyboard
resulting in:

:Hi all,
:
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
:(Michigan, USA) would also help (we live outside Detroit, and going
:somewhere that's a "dive spot" every year is way out of the budget)

On the fence means not interested.

My suggestion is the next time you go somewhere nice, have your wife
take a resort course.  Those are generally free.  Then you might want
to pay for an ocean dive.

Dan Bracuk
Never use a big word when a diminutive one will do.
chilly - 16 Jan 2008 09:06 GMT
> :somewhere that's a "dive spot" every year is way out of the budget)
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> take a resort course.  Those are generally free.  Then you might want
> to pay for an ocean dive.

Resort courses aren't generally free.  The tryscuba in the pool courses are
free.
Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick - 16 Jan 2008 17:24 GMT
>> :somewhere that's a "dive spot" every year is way out of the budget)
>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> are
> free.

 FYI, they aren't down here ("Intro To Scuba")(or at least around here).

 It's usually $25, w/ 4 person min.

Signature

Does anybody here really think that taking away the guns will stop
killing? Or knives, or icepicks, or chains, or ropes, or baseball
bats, or poisons, or cars & trucks. People are gonna kill people,
and they'll always think of a new weapon if you take away the old ones.
And just because I carry a potential weapon doesn't mean I intend to
commit murder, or that I may be tempted to commit murder.
I often carry a big ugly knife. Lots of my friends do too.
I have never heard of anyone being tempted to use the knife on
anyone just because they have it with them. You gotta be in the
mood to do the killing and you use what's at hand. -Jeff Cooper

           Popeye/ www.finalprotectivefire.com
       http://picasaweb.google.com/Popeye8762

Dan Bracuk - 17 Jan 2008 02:21 GMT
"chilly" <slarson@shaw.canada> pounded away at his keyboard resulting
in:

:Resort courses aren't generally free.  The tryscuba in the pool courses are
:free.

I go to a lot of resorts and can't remember seeing the last one that
wasn't free.

Dan Bracuk
Never use a big word when a diminutive one will do.
chilly - 17 Jan 2008 03:45 GMT
> "chilly" <slarson@shaw.canada> pounded away at his keyboard resulting
> in:
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> I go to a lot of resorts and can't remember seeing the last one that
> wasn't free.

Tryinthepool vs Resort Course.  Resort Course "certifies" a "diver" to 40'
for that vacation only and with the resort DM (or something silly like
that).

What we really need here is a PADI professional from the Caribbean to post a
reply on this thread.  :^)
Grumman-581 - 17 Jan 2008 09:43 GMT
> What I'm looking for, are any suggestions on things I can show her that
> she *might* see while diving.

Next time you're diving and she's snorkelling, let her breathe off your
octopus... Once she gets used to being able to breathe when she's not on
the surface, she'll never want to go back to having to hold her breath...
You'll probably want to ensure that she's weighted neutral so that she
won't be fighting to stay underwater the whole time... Let her dive with
you that way for awhile and if it interests her, she'll want to get her
own gear so she won't be tied to you...

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Don Gingrich - 19 Jan 2008 22:46 GMT
>> What I'm looking for, are any suggestions on things I can show her
>> that she *might* see while diving.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> it interests her, she'll want to get her own gear so she won't be
> tied to you...

The only point that springs to mind here is reminding
her to breathe out on the way to the surface. It doesn't
take much to "blow" a lung. The primary reason why I'd
never give a snorkeler who came up to me a breath on my
SCUBA. *Possible* exception would be someone who gave
all of the correct SCUBA "share air" signals.

-Don
Grumman-581 - 19 Jan 2008 22:57 GMT
> The only point that springs to mind here is reminding her to breathe out
> on the way to the surface. It doesn't take much to "blow" a lung. The
> primary reason why I'd never give a snorkeler who came up to me a breath
> on my SCUBA.

Agreed... I kind of skipped over that in my quick reply to the OP, but I
do mention it in the link that I normally post to these types of
questions...

http://grumman581.googlepages.com/scuba-certification

> *Possible* exception would be someone who gave all of the correct SCUBA
> "share air" signals.

Oh, you mean the person who swims up to you and yanks your regulator from
your mouth... Agreed... <grin>

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Lee Bell - 20 Jan 2008 16:36 GMT
> The only point that springs to mind here is reminding
> her to breathe out on the way to the surface. It doesn't
> take much to "blow" a lung. The primary reason why I'd
> never give a snorkeler who came up to me a breath on my
> SCUBA. *Possible* exception would be someone who gave
> all of the correct SCUBA "share air" signals.

You mean somebody that comes up and snatches the regulator out of your
mouth, right?

Lee
Lee Bell - 20 Jan 2008 16:39 GMT
Grumman-581 wrote:

> *Possible* exception would be someone who gave all of the correct SCUBA
> "share air" signals.

Oh, you mean the person who swims up to you and yanks your regulator from
your mouth... Agreed... <grin>

You beat me to it. Bastard.

Lee
Jason A. - 20 Jan 2008 21:12 GMT
Well, everyone, thanks for the hints...

I think washing the linens might have done the trick ;-)

We went up to a local dive shop today, to pick up info on taking the
basic SCUBA classes, to get the prices, and I think part of what might
be involved in her deciding to take the classes, is the fact that one of
the women at our work, and her husband, are planning to get SCUBA
certified this summer, prior to their going to Hawaii next year.  So, my
wife takes the classes with them, which means she knows someone in the
classes.

Me, the guy at the dive shop said he could get me in as a refresher
course, cheap, which I need.  The rust on my skills is so bad, if I were
a steel beam, I'd be getting replaced, not de-rusted...
:-)

> Hi all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> Thanks all,
> Jason
 
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