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Scuba Forum / General / January 2008Just got my first wetsuit
I just got my first wetsuit. With the help of everyone here, my instructor, who runs the dive shop, and the manufacturer, I settled on a 3/2 in an M/L size, the first size I tried on. We ordered a M to try, and it was definitely snug but not unbearable. A bit restrictive but I could still raise my arms up. I could breath okay, but felt like I was being strangled a bit around the neck. The ML was form fitting everywhere except my upper arms, a tad loose, and there was a small gap in the small of my back. Much more comfortable and I wasn't strangling. According to Bare, they said to get the one that's most comfortable but not loose. Bare claims their lower end models are not made of the stretchy new fabrics that loosen when wet and give you lots of motion when you get them really tight. You guys seemed to be divided as to comfort and really snug. My instructor said either would be fine, but also said it's nice to be comfortable and the ML didn't look to big. I think the fit is right on, and thanks again for the help. Sheldon >You guys seemed to be divided as to comfort and really snug. I think you were misreading us. A wetsuit works because it traps water between the suit and the body and insulates that water from ambient temperature. The body warms the water, which, in turn, insulates the body. Think of that water as the thermal underwear inside a drysuit. In order to be effective, the wetsuit has to be snug enough to keep water exchange to a minimum. If your suit does that, it's fine. If it doesn't, it's less than optimal. Everything is a trade off. Even if it is not optimal, it may be good enough. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. In cold water, a poor seal that allows cold water in is pretty easy to recognize. > My instructor said either would be fine, but also said it's nice to be > comfortable and the ML didn't look to big. That's not the kind of statement that gives confidence in the instructor. > I think the fit is right on, and thanks again for the help. I hope you're right. Lee >>You guys seemed to be divided as to comfort and really snug. > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Lee While the M was strangling me somewhat, and the ML was not, the ML was still snug and appeared to be making a seal around my neck. After taking all this into account I pretty much went with Bare's recommendations (they said the suit will not stretch or loosen in the water). Everyplace on my body, except the small of my back and my upper arms, the suit fits like a glove right up against me. The M is just tighter, "almost" to the point of cutting of my circulation, and definitely tight around the neck. That said, I do agree with you. The proof is in the diving, and I won't really know till I get the suit in the water. Since it was purchased for diving in the Caribbean it can't be too much of a mistake if it is one. I'm still learning. If the worst mistake I make diving is buying a wetsuit that's a bit too large I'd say that' not too bad. I'll keep you posted. Sheldon > While the M was strangling me somewhat, and the ML was not, the ML was > still snug and appeared to be making a seal around my neck. After taking [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > glove right up against me. The M is just tighter, "almost" to the point > of cutting of my circulation, and definitely tight around the neck. I obviously didn't speak clearly. You know how well it fits best. From your description, I think you'll probalby be fine. You'll know for sure the first few times you use it in cold water. Some people just can't find an off the shelf wetsuit that fits well. At my current weight, I'm one of them. I'm working on getting back to a more standard size. If I were to buy a wetsuit to fit me today, I'd go for a custom one. That's easy for me, there's a shop that makes them for a reasonable price within a few miles of my home. Not everyone's that lucky. Good luck with yours. I hope it's both warm and comfortable. Lee >> While the M was strangling me somewhat, and the ML was not, the ML was >> still snug and appeared to be making a seal around my neck. After taking [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Lee Thanks, and I think pushups will help a lot. Go for the bigger size. Make absolutely shure that there is no pressure on your throat/adam's appel area. Enjoy diving. Look for a good neoprene seamstress to have your suit adjusted after 2 years or 100 dives. Matthias >>>You guys seemed to be divided as to comfort and really snug. >> [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > Sheldon > Go for the bigger size. > Make absolutely shure that there is no pressure on your throat/adam's [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Matthias Good idea. > I think you were misreading us. A wetsuit works because it traps water > between the suit and the body and insulates that water from ambient > temperature. The body warms the water, which, in turn, insulates the body. Uhhh... Water is not an insulator... It conducts heat... The insulator is the neoprene... The water perhaps distributes the heat from one part of the body to another part of the body, but that just means that it is taking it from one place and moving it somewhere else... If your wetsuit is allowing this, it's probably also allowing water in from the outside which means that some of the water that you've already warmed is going to escape... Basically, you're pumping your body heat into the sea / lake water...  SignatureSee NNTP header field "X-Real-Email-Address" to reply by email. >> I think you were misreading us. A wetsuit works because it traps water >> between the suit and the body and insulates that water from ambient [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > escape... Basically, you're pumping your body heat into the sea / lake > water... That's what I've heard, but there seems to be a discrepancy about this fact, even in this group. Many people still feel that your body warms up the water in the wetsuit. And, in reality it probably does. You just hope it's not flowing in and out at too great a rate. I'm beginning to think the proper fit for a wetsuit is not tight but rather no gaps. If it fits like a glove it's probably right. If it's tight, how tight is too tight? You would also think that if you stretch it too tight over your body it will actually lose some thickness. > > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >actually lose some thickness. > Sounds to me like the ML you bought is a pretty good fit for off-the-rack. The M probably would've been okay too. Stock sizes are always a compromise, and fit isn't too critical in a 3 mm for warm water diving. My warm water suit is too loose-- but it still beats a t-shirt! >>> I think you were misreading us. A wetsuit works because it traps water >>> between the suit and the body and insulates that water from ambient [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> escape... Basically, you're pumping your body heat into the sea / lake >> water... > That's what I've heard, but there seems to be a discrepancy about this > fact, even in this group. Many people still feel that your body warms up > the water in the wetsuit. It does. Grumman was primarily addressing my statement that the water insulates your body. He's probably technically correct. > I'm beginning to think the proper fit for a wetsuit is not tight but > rather no gaps. That would be the ideal. Some wetsuits have pads that go along the spine to help create a no gap fit. > If it fits like a glove it's probably right. If it's tight, how tight is > too tight? That's an excellent question. Too bad there isn't a good answer to it. If the suit cuts off circulation, it's too tight for sure. If it restricts breathing, that's also a bad sign. I have that problem with mine now. I wish it was because my suit shrank. It's not. Beyond that, everything is a trade off between a fit snug enough to keep water transfer to a minimum and one so snug that it's uncomfortable. The best balance is a highly individual decision. The easier the wetsuit material stretches, though, the better it's likely to fit before becoming uncomfortable. > You would also think that if you stretch it too tight over your body it > will actually lose some thickness. It does, but not much. You lose a lot more thickness, and thermal protection, due to pressure compression than you do from stretch compression. That's one of the more significant weaknesses of wetsuits versus drysuits. Lee > > [Grumman wrote] > >> Uhhh... Water is not an insulator... It conducts heat... The insulator is [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > It does. Grumman was primarily addressing my statement that the water > insulates your body. He's probably technically correct. In reading through it, it was a minor slip up. The simple summary is that with a wetsuit, warmth is generally afforded by two major factors: how good the insulation is (neoprene thickness), and how good is the weatherstripping (ability of the fit to minimize water exchange). > > I'm beginning to think the proper fit for a wetsuit is not tight but > > rather no gaps. > > That would be the ideal. Some wetsuits have pads that go along the spine to > help create a no gap fit. Minimizing gaps will minimize the total amount of water inside the suit with you. This is good because this means less water to be heated, but it also generally makes it harder for your motion to physically pump water around in the wetsuit, which invariably means water out of the wetsuit, which then has to be replaced with cold new water that will then be warmed up. > > If it fits like a glove it's probably right. If it's tight, how tight is > > too tight? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > decision. The easier the wetsuit material stretches, though, the better it's > likely to fit before becoming uncomfortable. Generally, you need to be most careful around the neck and chest for breathing, but you also don't want it to be too tight around the extremities as this could restrict bloodflow, and we do know that being cold can affect DCS risk. In general, I don't go above 'snug' for the non-respiratory parts of the body, and for my neck, I look for what I'll call "touching". Its a balancing act, but need to remember that it is far more important to avoid a fold or pocket that will hold a quart than to make it 'skin tight" to squeeze out those last 6 ounces. -hh "Lee Bell" <pleeb...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > Sheldon wrote > > [Grumman wrote] [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > It does. Grumman was primarily addressing my statement that the water > insulates your body. He's probably technically correct. In reading through it, it was a minor slip up. The simple summary is that with a wetsuit, warmth is generally afforded by two major factors: how good the insulation is (neoprene thickness), and how good is the weatherstripping (ability of the fit to minimize water exchange). > > I'm beginning to think the proper fit for a wetsuit is not tight but > > rather no gaps. > > That would be the ideal. Some wetsuits have pads that go along the spine > to > help create a no gap fit. Minimizing gaps will minimize the total amount of water inside the suit with you. This is good because this means less water to be heated, but it also generally makes it harder for your motion to physically pump water around in the wetsuit, which invariably means water out of the wetsuit, which then has to be replaced with cold new water that will then be warmed up. > > If it fits like a glove it's probably right. If it's tight, how tight is > > too tight? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > it's > likely to fit before becoming uncomfortable. Generally, you need to be most careful around the neck and chest for breathing, but you also don't want it to be too tight around the extremities as this could restrict bloodflow, and we do know that being cold can affect DCS risk. In general, I don't go above 'snug' for the non-respiratory parts of the body, and for my neck, I look for what I'll call "touching". Its a balancing act, but need to remember that it is far more important to avoid a fold or pocket that will hold a quart than to make it 'skin tight" to squeeze out those last 6 ounces. -hh Makes sense. For off the rack I think I'm there. The smaller size was making me very conscious about the seal around my neck. Very uncomfortable. > >> I think you were misreading us. A wetsuit works because it traps water > >> between the suit and the body and insulates that water from ambient [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > would also think that if you stretch it too tight over your body it will > actually lose some thickness. It is my understanding that as the water approaches body temperature, the trasfer of heat diminishes. Once the water reaches body temperature, the transfer of heat stops. This is a function of thermal conductivity. IN a perfect world, that would be the end of the equation. In our world, we also have to factor in the tranfer of water in and out of the suit which complicates things. Theoretically, the water would eventually become an insulator simply because there would be nowhere for the excess heat to go. Realistically, this point will seldom if ever be reached. However, as the water heats up, the heat transfer slows so the water becomes what might be termed a "semi-insulator". |
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