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Scuba Forum / General / November 2007Single tank wing
My back cannot put up any more with my double LP 98's and for the next diving season I am considering to break them apart and dive them as singles. I never used (or even seen in use) single tank wings and I am wondering what is good out there. Halcyon's Eclipse looks nice but its price terrified me. OMS and Dive Rite's web site did not enlighten me much. Any recommendations? Also, I am curious if STA's are necessary to make the tank more stable and are a "must" even if the wing does not require it. TIA > My back cannot put up any more with my double LP 98's and for the next > diving season I am considering to break them apart and dive them as singles. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > are a "must" even if the wing does not require it. > TIA www.oxycheq.com STA's are a must, and ad little (<1/4") to the height. The STA-less BP setup is nothing more or less than a marketing scam that decent manufacturers are forced to address. Ping me offline and I'll hook you up. look for a used Halyon Batwing.. nice single tank wing with 18lbs lift, very streamlined. However good luck finding one since they are in high demand. Also look at the Dive Rite Venture wing http://www.diverite.com/products/catalog/wings/bc2077 > look for a used Halyon Batwing.. nice single tank wing with 18lbs lift, > very streamlined. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Also look at the Dive Rite Venture wing > http://www.diverite.com/products/catalog/wings/bc2077 A far superior wing in all respects is the OxyCheq Mach V Razor 18# wing: http://www.oxycheq.com/Oxycheq/wingssingle.html > My back cannot put up any more with my double LP 98's and for the next > diving season I am considering to break them apart and dive them as singles. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > are a "must" even if the wing does not require it. > TIA Don't know why anyone dives LP tanks. That aside, I've been diving the Transpac for a couple years and like it. The lovely Deborah just got one and loves it. No plates, no adapters, just a tank, harness, and wing as God intended. The prices on all this stuff is insane. I designed a wrap and harness with wing and sent the dimensions to Scott, but he apparently is afraid of needle and thread... The old DuraPro is again being made, but the name of the company escapes me. If I ever buy another, it'll be that. esg > Don't know why anyone dives LP tanks. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > with wing and sent the dimensions to Scott, but he apparently is afraid > of needle and thread... I am a machinist, not a seamstress. > > Don't know why anyone dives LP tanks. > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > I am a machinist, not a seamstress. So you can run a lathe, but not a sewing machine? > > > Don't know why anyone dives LP tanks. > > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > So you can run a lathe, but not a sewing machine? Yes. And a mill, and CNC. machines. >>>>Don't know why anyone dives LP tanks. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Yes. And a mill, and CNC. machines. Now wait. CNC sewing machines do exist... Not sure wether they are able to put out slotted backplates, though. Matthias > > Scott wrote: > > Yes. And a mill, and CNC. machines. > > Now wait. > CNC sewing machines do exist... How many different cutters do they use? > Not sure wether they are able to put out slotted backplates, > though. With enough time and money, probably, in the hands of a competent machinist. Backplates are 2D. When you get into 3D 4 and 5 axis parts and programs is where the madness sets in. G54, G55, G56...all the way to G whatever the software and controller can handle. >>>Scott wrote: >>>Yes. And a mill, and CNC. machines. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > How many different cutters do they use? I saw a Pfaff machine with 7 needles. Stitching patterns. 5000 bucks. Matthias >>>Don't know why anyone dives LP tanks. >>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > So you can run a lathe, but not a sewing machine? I tell you, a lathe is easier to run. At least for me. Matthias >> Don't know why anyone dives LP tanks. >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > I am a machinist, not a seamstress. It's nothing to be ashamed to knit a scarf or sew a dress. And not that easy. Adam > > I am a machinist, not a seamstress. > > It's nothing to be ashamed to knit a scarf or sew a dress. And not that easy. Didn't say it was. I wear clothes every day to work as a machinist. I couldn't make them. But, without a machinist, there would be no sewing machines. >>>Don't know why anyone dives LP tanks. >>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Adam Scott would assemble one out of interlocking machined brass scales, much like chain mail...  Signature“TANSTAAFL” ____________________________________________________________________________ America: Ironically, the safest place to be anti-American. ____________________________________________________________________________ "A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences." - Proverbs 22:3 > Don't know why anyone dives LP tanks. So they can pump them up to 3000+ psi and have a decent fill out of them... <evil-grin> > That aside, I've been diving the Transpac for a couple years and like > it. The lovely Deborah just got one and loves it. No plates, no > adapters, just a tank, harness, and wing as God intended. Total bullshit... Man was intended to dive with just the harness straps hooked up directly to the tanks... No backplate, no BC... If you *must* have a BC, then you should use a horsecollar BC... They're still available... I bought a new one this year... They still work great... >> My back cannot put up any more with my double LP 98's and for the next diving >> season I am considering to break them apart and dive them as singles. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > esg A heavy plate is nice for drysuit diving where you need a lot of weight, but in Southern Ca and warmer I found the plates more hassle. I switched to Zeagle Escape, which is also a light weight, wing, soft-back BC with two tank bands and works well. There are now several well designed light-weight wing BC's that offer good alternative to the plate for single tank diving. And you can buy them at discount on the Internet, once you know your size. Adam > There are now several well designed light-weight wing BC's that offer good > alternative to the plate for single tank diving. And you can buy them at discount on > the Internet, once you know your size. Shhh. Just because 99% of divers happily dive BCs doesn't mean you have to let the cat out of the bag. If the rec.scubans want to blindly dive using simple prehistoric devices, why not let them? Maybe some museum will enshrine them one day and it will all be worth it. >> My back cannot put up any more with my double LP 98's and for the next >> diving season I am considering to break them apart and dive them as [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> TIA > Don't know why anyone dives LP tanks. Because they can be gloriously over-filled. In escence they actually become HP. For the past couple of years Pressed Steel is ratting their old LP tanks to 3447 psi. > That aside, I've been diving the Transpac for a couple years and like it. > The lovely Deborah just got one and loves it. No plates, no adapters, just [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > esg > My back cannot put up any more with my double LP 98's and for the next > diving season I am considering to break them apart and dive them as singles. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Also, I am curious if STA's are necessary to make the tank more stable and > are a "must" even if the wing does not require it. Hi Ed, it's been a while. I recently bought an Oxycheq single tank wing, and it is really well built and is slick. I don't think the 18 lb batwing is enough for the cold water gear, pony bottle, light and tools <g>. I would look at wings with a little more lift for NJ diving. I'll be at Dutch on 11/17, and you are welcome to try my Oxycheq 40 lb, Halcyon 27 lb, and weighted and non weighted STA's if you want. I also like the look of Agir-Brokk wings. Hey Al, how are you? It has been quite some time indeed. I also feel that 18 lbs is a bit on the low side. I figured it should be in the 30 lb flavor. A single LP 98 while full, it is about 6 lbs negative, plus 6 lbs for the back plate, plus about 10 in additional lead/light plus 40 cf pony comes out to about 25 lbs. Never heard about Dutch Springs... that's a definitive maybe. I will let you know if I can make it. Rgds, Ed >> My back cannot put up any more with my double LP 98's and for the next >> diving season I am considering to break them apart and dive them as [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > I also like the look of Agir-Brokk wings. > I also feel that 18 lbs is a bit on the low side. I figured it should be in > the 30 lb flavor. > A single LP 98 while full, it is about 6 lbs negative, plus 6 lbs for the > back plate, plus about 10 in additional lead/light plus 40 cf pony comes out > to about 25 lbs. You of course have some buoyancy in your exposure protection and you theoretically only need enough lift to compensate for the swing of your tanks plus whatever you lose in your exposure protection at depth, but I like the rig to be able to float itself. I recently had to get out of my rig on the surface, and it would have been a huge PITA if it could not float itself. > Never heard about > Dutch Springs... that's a definitive maybe. I will let you know if I can > make it. It's not a big thing at Dutch. I am meeting Arnold (mag3) to sort out some new gear. You're more than welcome to join us and try my wings and STA's. What boat have you been diving on? I've been doing a little NJ diving from a few different boats. al > What boat have you been diving on? I've been doing a little NJ diving > from a few different boats. Is it still the "Star Wars Bar Scene"? > Is it still the "Star Wars Bar Scene"? I haven't been on any hard core tech boats. The Seeker is gone, and the Wahoo was sold to Hank Garvin and is now the Garloo. It is a haul through ridiculous traffic for me to go on that boat, so I don't know what's up with it. The big thing with techies here these days is rebreathers. There was a girl on one boat I was on who had a "pretty little yellow box of death", and she had been recently trained by one of the known idiots, and it was hilarious to watch because she couldn't sink or even figure out how much weight to add. I would have thought that would be covered in the first pool session. > I haven't been on any hard core tech boats. The Seeker is gone, and the > Wahoo was sold to Hank Garvin and is now the Garloo. It is a haul [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > sink or even figure out how much weight to add. I would have thought > that would be covered in the first pool session. It is only going to get worse. Juergensen and Golem are building and selling untested Meg knock-offs, and rumor has it Slobberstein will soon join the fray. > It is only going to get worse. > > Juergensen and Golem are building and selling untested Meg knock-offs, and > rumor has it Slobberstein will soon join the fray. I was wondering how long it would take him to jump into it. Here's another fine new and innovative product by and for the northeast diver: http://www.spectrumdiving.com/index.html > I was wondering how long it would take him to jump into it. Never had an original idea. A simple thief. But, he talks a smooth line of sh.t. > Here's another fine new and innovative product by and for the northeast > diver: http://www.spectrumdiving.com/index.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXE9LrxcMI4 5 parts. Single hand operation. Another Fine Koplin Design. > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXE9LrxcMI4 > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Another Fine Koplin Design. I need to see one up close. One of these days I have to get you the drawings or sample of the old DR jump reel that I like. All of my old ones are getting broken (they're made from acrylic material). The new DR one is a POS. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXE9LrxcMI4 > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > ones are getting broken (they're made from acrylic material). The new DR > one is a POS. Get to Jackson Bkue and you can use one of Ours to test. Any and all input is appreciated. > Get to Jackson Bkue and you can use one of Ours to test. > > Any and all input is appreciated. I am going to buy a big reel before next season, and I was going to buy a Salvo, but I will look at yours first. I looked on the website, and you don't have anything like the small jump reel I'm talking about. Finger spools are good for safety spools, but jump reels are used on every dive and most of the old timers who actually know and aren't following some nonsense from the internet would rather have the reel. I'll get your address by email and send you one of the ones I like. > I am going to buy a big reel before next season Here you go... It should hold all the line that you are likely to need... http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(tiggyd55niyp2o455auc33mt)/ProductDetails.aspx? SKU=3009271&Source=froogle NOTE -- strange URL, you might need to cut and paste it into your browser window... > > I am going to buy a big reel before next season > > Here you go... It should hold all the line that you are likely to > need... http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(tiggyd55niyp2o455auc33mt)/ProductDetails.aspx? SKU=3009271&Source=froogle Fuckin' spammer... >> > I am going to buy a big reel before next season >> Here you go... It should hold all the line that you are likely to >> need... > http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(tiggyd55niyp2o455auc33mt)/ProductDetails.aspx? SKU=3009271&Source=froogle > Fuckin' spammer... Better do some research on the design & flaws first. Seems to be a line retrieval problem with one type. Seen a lot of 3000 ft spools go out full, line neatly rolled and secured, only to see them return half to completely empty of line. Curtis > Better do some research on the design & flaws first. Seems to be a line > retrieval problem with one type. > > Seen a lot of 3000 ft spools go out full, line neatly rolled and > secured, only to see them return half to completely empty of line. Actually, I was posting that as a joke... Do some people actually use the plastic extension cord reels as cave line reels? I would think that at least they would make them out of better plastice than that! I've got a couple of those reels that I use for various things (electrical extension cords, RG-58 thin-net ethernet cables, really long RJ-45 cables, etc)... I saw one person once running a commercial pop corn maker off of an extension cord that he didn't unwind completely from one of the reels... Since the heat could not dissipate, the cord melted together... When it finally blew the circuit breaker, he had one rather large piece of plastic and wire slag that had melted into a single lump... > > Better do some research on the design & flaws first. Seems to be a line > > retrieval problem with one type. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > circuit breaker, he had one rather large piece of plastic and wire > slag that had melted into a single lump... Isn't that Ohm's law? > Isn't that Ohm's law? Not exactly... Ohm's law doesn't predict the amount of heat that is going to be generated... He basically created a transformer winding on the plastic spool... The wire gauge might have been questionable considering the amperage that he was drawing and the length of the extension cord, but if it had been laid out along the ground such that it could have more easily dissipated its heat, it *might* have not melted... It probably would have still felt warm to the touch though... You can get away with leaving the wire on the reel *if* you are running something that does not use much power (i.e. a low amperage device)... The large commercial popcorn poppers are not by any means "low amerage devices"... Doing a quick search on the web comes up with models that run from 3000 to 5700 watts... That's quite a bit of wattage to be running off of 110VAC... From the look of the cord, I suspect he was running a 16-gauge cord -- just the typical discount orange extension cord that you get up at Home Depot or Wal-mart... It was probably a 50 ft cord and as such, it was probably marginal at best even if the wire had not been still wrapped around the reel... On 11 Lis, 18:25, Grumman-581 <grumman581-DIE-SPAMMER-S...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 08:51:42 -0800, "Scott" > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Not exactly... Ohm's law doesn't predict the amount of heat that is > going to be generated... He basically created a transformer transformer????? or maybe rather coil >winding on > the plastic spool... The wire gauge might have been questionable [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > comes up with models that run from 3000 to 5700 watts... That's quite > a bit of wattage to be running off of 110VAC... That's why more civilized countries use 230V system ;-)) > From the look of the > cord, I suspect he was running a 16-gauge cord -- just the typical > discount orange extension cord that you get up at Home Depot or > Wal-mart... It was probably a 50 ft cord and as such, it was probably > marginal at best even if the wire had not been still wrapped around > the reel... IIRC 16 gauge is rated at 10A. In this case current was around 50 Amps, so the cable had to burn. Using European system the energy lost in the cable would be approx. 4 times smaller. Janusz > That's why more civilized countries use 230V system ;-)) Hmmm... That doesn't sound very metric... Oh, we've got stuff that runs on 220 and 440 around here... Even the popcorn poppers like that are usually run on 220 when installed in a fixed location... They guy was renting the popcorn popper for the event they were having an apparently the rental place only rents out the 110V ones since the most common outlet to find is usually 110V... > IIRC 16 gauge is rated at 10A. In this case current was around 50 > Amps, so the cable had to burn. I think 16 gauge might be rated a bit higher than that, but not by much... Regardless, even if it was a 14 gauge cord, it would have been too small... He could get away with it for a short while since the popcorn popper is not continuously on... If I remember correctly, I think he got one or two batches of popcorn out of it before he ended up with a solid mass of melted plastic... > Using European system the energy lost > in the cable would be approx. 4 times smaller. I'm sure that there are advantages and disadvantages of either system... I remember aboard ship even the 110V electricity was a bit different... I think both terminals were hot... Probably something about the fact that a metal deck in salt water is a pretty damn good ground... On 11 Lis, 22:17, Grumman-581 <grumman581-DIE-SPAMMER-S...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 10:48:28 -0800, "janus...@hotmail.com" > > <janus...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > That's why more civilized countries use 230V system ;-)) > > Hmmm... That doesn't sound very metric... really??????? > Oh, we've got stuff that runs on 220 and 440 around here... And that 220 is between phases (both hots). > Even the > popcorn poppers like that are usually run on 220 when installed in a [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > I'm sure that there are advantages and disadvantages of either > system... Do you know any advantage of 110? >I remember aboard ship even the 110V electricity was a bit > different... I think both terminals were hot... Probably something > about the fact that a metal deck in salt water is a pretty damn good > ground... I know very little about ship power supply, but IIRC there is all the time problem with electrolysis and it is necessary to have all wires isolated from the hull structure. Janusz > Do you know any advantage of 110? Well, I've been hit by 220 before and by 110 before... Not that I like getting hit by 110, but it feels slightly better than being hit by 220... It's interesting that we still call it 110 though... Technically, it's really 120 and 240 +/- 5% from the power company and 115/230 from an equipment design standard... http://www.quick220.com/220_about_voltages.htm > Well, I've been hit by 220 before and by 110 before... Not that I like > getting hit by 110, but it feels slightly better than being hit by 220... > It's interesting that we still call it 110 though... Technically, it's > really 120 and 240 +/- 5% from the power company and 115/230 from an > equipment design standard... That would be on a delta system. The 120/208V wye is very common in parts of PA and NJ. On 13 Lis, 16:33, Grumman-581 <grumman581-rec-sc...@spambob.net> wrote: > > Do you know any advantage of 110? > > Well, I've been hit by 220 before and by 110 before... Not that I like > getting hit by 110, but it feels slightly better than being hit by 220... LOL. Real advantage of the system. I thought that you as a Texan with hard hands of farm boy don't feel 110 and have to lick the wire to check if it is hot ;-))) Janusz > It's interesting that we still call it 110 though... Technically, it's > really 120 and 240 +/- 5% from the power company and 115/230 from an > equipment design standard... > > http://www.quick220.com/220_about_voltages.htm > LOL. Real advantage of the system. > I thought that you as a Texan with hard hands of farm boy don't feel > 110 and have to lick the wire to check if it is hot ;-))) Well, I do have an electric fence around my backyard... Yeah, I've been hit by it a few times while working in the yard if I don't turn it off first... Don't remember the voltage on it, but it will definitely get your attention... Usually causes a few cuss words to be generated rather quickly... > Well, I do have an electric fence around my backyard... Yeah, I've been > hit by it a few times while working in the yard if I don't turn > it off first... Don't remember the voltage on it, but it will definitely > get your attention... Usually causes a few cuss words to be generated > rather quickly... Mine is 7500 volts. I've never been bitten by it, but Cindy has. >>Well, I do have an electric fence around my backyard... Yeah, I've been >>hit by it a few times while working in the yard if I don't turn [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Mine is 7500 volts. I've never been bitten by it, but Cindy has. I have one to keep the cats away from the plants. 12kv. It bites. I put a 12 meg resistor on it to keep the current down though. Signature"TANSTAAFL" ____________________________________________________________________________ America: Ironically, the safest place to be anti-American. ____________________________________________________________________________ "A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences." - Proverbs 22:3 > Mine is 7500 volts. I've never been bitten by it, but Cindy has. I've been hit with around 15kV from the high voltage lead off a power supply for a radar indicator's CRT... Made a nice charred spot in the end of my finger where it hit... Knocked me on the other side of the compartment... Quite a bit different than my electrical fence... Not as many cuss words, just a glazed look on my face as the compartment proceeded to rotate all on its own... > I've been hit with around 15kV from the high voltage lead off a power > supply for a radar indicator's CRT... Made a nice charred spot in the end > of my finger where it hit... Knocked me on the other side of the > compartment... Quite a bit different than my electrical fence... Not as > many cuss words, just a glazed look on my face as the compartment > proceeded to rotate all on its own... I've been hit with the output from the coil on a '55 Chevy, but the absolute worse was from 480 VAC. I was installing a new safety disconnect in the control box for a brake disc drilling machine, and had the 3 phase wires coming into the box disconnected and exposed. The other end was connected to a disconnect on the wall (it was in a place where we tested finished machines). I turned the disconnect on the wall off and tagged it, but unknown to me one of the non English speaking guys thought it was connected to another machine and turned it back on. I got a full phase between my index finger and the flesh between my index finger and thumb. Fortunately my own weight pulled me out of the box and onto the floor, and my testicles returned to where they belong in about an hour. > I've been hit with the output from the coil on a '55 Chevy, but the > absolute worse was from 480 VAC. I was installing a new safety [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > box and onto the floor, and my testicles returned to where they belong > in about an hour. My middle finger has a hole in it that looks like the hole left by a bb gun on glass. > My middle finger has a hole in it that looks like the hole left by a bb gun > on glass. We're both lucky - it is potentially lethal nasty stuff. > > My middle finger has a hole in it that looks like the hole left by a bb gun > > on glass. > > We're both lucky - it is potentially lethal nasty stuff. Man. It hyper-extended my knees. Blew the air out of my lungs hard enough that the guys at the front desk came back to see what I was hollering about. > I've been hit with the output from the coil on a '55 Chevy, but the > absolute worse was from 480 VAC. I haven't had any 3-phase hits like that yet... In the 400V range, the most memorable was when I laid my arm across the test points in the door for the SPS-10 radar unit's reciever-transmitter unit while trying to get access to another test point inside the unit... Around 400 or so volts for the filiment voltages for the tubes... Next thing I remember, I was around 10 ft away from the unit trying to not look like an idiot for having done that... > > Mine is 7500 volts. I've never been bitten by it, but Cindy has. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > many cuss words, just a glazed look on my face as the compartment > proceeded to rotate all on its own... Pussys; You aint lived util you been in one leg of a 440v circuit. >>>Mine is 7500 volts. I've never been bitten by it, but Cindy has. >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > You aint lived util you been in one leg of a 440v circuit. I have lived twice. THe second time was enough for me. 220V (european) at 20 amps (the breaker tripped, saving my life, but it did blow a bit of flesh from my heel) Woke up swinging in the hospital. What a ride Signature“TANSTAAFL” ____________________________________________________________________________ America: Ironically, the safest place to be anti-American. ____________________________________________________________________________ "A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences." - Proverbs 22:3 > I have lived twice. THe second time was enough for me. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > What a ride No breaker. A ring oiler, open frame 30 horse troll motor running a Hendy and a Bridgeport. I got bounced high enough to look down on the draw bar hole. > Pussys; > > You aint lived util you been in one leg of a 440v circuit. We had this one radar unit (SPS-49, IIRC) that had one portion of the schematics with a "DANGER HIGH VOLTAGE" label on it and it was around 60 or so volts, IIRC... Turns out that there was a couple of hundred amps on it... When you're working with digital circuitry, you get sloppy with your hands all over the place... One guy got killed by it indirectly... It seems that it hit him so hard that it knocked him back into a hatch and he was impaled upon it... > > > Mine is 7500 volts. I've never been bitten by it, but Cindy has. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > You aint lived util you been in one leg of a 440v circuit. Scotty, in psychiatry it is called Electroconvulsive therapy for mental illness. In your case it can help. Janusz On 14 Lis, 02:11, Grumman-581 <grumman581-rec-sc...@spambob.net> wrote: > > Mine is 7500 volts. I've never been bitten by it, but Cindy has. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > many cuss words, just a glazed look on my face as the compartment > proceeded to rotate all on its own... What about the screen? Was the line stable? Janusz On 13 Lis, 23:49, Grumman-581 <grumman581-rec-sc...@spambob.net> wrote: > > LOL. Real advantage of the system. > > I thought that you as a Texan with hard hands of farm boy don't feel [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > get your attention... Usually causes a few cuss words to be generated > rather quickly... If you are able to utter a word it's not really high voltage. Janusz > If you are able to utter a word it's not really high voltage. I've had my share of ones that just leave you babbling... I am more than happy that my electric fence does not have that sort of power associated with it... The transformer was originally for cattle... I use it to motivate my dogs to remain in the yard... On 14 Lis, 15:26, Grumman-581 <grumman581-rec-sc...@spambob.net> wrote: > > If you are able to utter a word it's not really high voltage. > > I've had my share of ones that just leave you babbling... I am more than > happy that my electric fence does not have that sort of power associated > with it... The transformer was originally for cattle... I use it to > motivate my dogs to remain in the yard... Originally it was dog's job to herd cattle. Thanks to some inventions like electrical fence poor creatures lost their jobs and now you put them in place which was designed for cattle. It's rather cruel. Janusz P.S. a little training and the dogs will remain in the yard without any such inventions. > Originally it was dog's job to herd cattle. Thanks to some inventions > like electrical fence poor creatures lost their jobs and now you put [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > P.S. a little training and the dogs will remain in the yard without > any such inventions. Some dogs are more inclined to remain in their yards than others... It is unreasonable to think that you can ever completely train them to stay in a particular area and not be tempted by sights and smells from outside that area... Adding a little negative reinforcement helps quite a bit and after the first couple of hits, they don't come close to the fence ever again... You just need to put the bottom wire at about nose height since the dog leads with his nose and is likely to touch the wire with it initially while trying to smell it... I have a large enough yard that their confinement to that area is not considered cruel... Of course, one side effect of this is that they leave quite a few land mines for the unwary visitor to that portion of my backyard... On 15 Lis, 14:48, Grumman-581 <grumman581-rec-sc...@spambob.net> wrote: > > Originally it was dog's job to herd cattle. Thanks to some inventions > > like electrical fence poor creatures lost their jobs and now you put [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > particular area and not be tempted by sights and smells from outside that > area... Training, training and once again training. Well trained dog will stay inside the area which is considered as it's own territory. It's instinct. Ignoring tempting smells, food etc. is also part of the training. It takes some time, but results usually are good. > Adding a little negative reinforcement helps quite a bit and after > the first couple of hits, they don't come close to the fence ever again... [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > effect of this is that they leave quite a few land mines for the unwary > visitor to that portion of my backyard... You have to hire demining company ;-) Janusz > Training, training and once again training. Well trained dog will stay > inside the area which is considered as it's own territory. It's > instinct. Ignoring tempting smells, food etc. is also part of the > training. It takes some time, but results usually are good. I have yet to see a dog that was trained well enough that if a rabbit or something got into the yard and they started chasing it, they would stop at the property boundary if there wasn't a fence there... >> Training, training and once again training. Well trained dog will stay >> inside the area which is considered as it's own territory. It's [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > something got into the yard and they started chasing it, they would stop > at the property boundary if there wasn't a fence there... My hovawart did. Not being trained. He chased all the rabbits on one fenced meadow till they were on they other side of the fence. Then he went to the next meadow and repeated the game with the same rabbits, and so one. He just loved running and had an idea of "cleared terrain". He would have stopped on the spot had I told him so, by shouting, hissing, or just a hand sign, in case he looked at me. He also stayed at the territory without being told. No fences. Contrary to our St. Bernard who strolled through the village, digging in the barbers pond, sieging his girl friends houses. Matthias > > Isn't that Ohm's law? > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > marginal at best even if the wire had not been still wrapped around > the reel... It's that thermal thing... According to Ohm's law. Volkswagens, Harleys and Honda 750's will run forever if properly cooled. > > > Better do some research on the design & flaws first. Seems to be a > line [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Isn't that Ohm's law? No. It's called Joule-Lenz law. Janusz > Actually, I was posting that as a joke... Do some people actually use > the plastic extension cord reels as cave line reels? I would think > that at least they would make them out of better plastice than that! I recently saw someone in NJ using a plastic chalk line reel. They don't use reels here just for penetrating wrecks; they use them to find their way back to the anchor line. I delight in wowing the natives with my magic pointer box <g>. I can also see wreck that is more than 300 ft from the tie-in. > > Actually, I was posting that as a joke... Do some people actually use > > the plastic extension cord reels as cave line reels? I would think [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > magic pointer box <g>. I can also see wreck that is more than 300 ft > from the tie-in. That will be one LogiTech keyboard. > > I recently saw someone in NJ using a plastic chalk line reel. They don't > > use reels here just for penetrating wrecks; they use them to find their [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > That will be one LogiTech keyboard. It gets better - I would estimate that 2 out of 3 divers come back on the boat with the reel birdnested. > > > I recently saw someone in NJ using a plastic chalk line reel. They don't > > > use reels here just for penetrating wrecks; they use them to find their [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > It gets better - I would estimate that 2 out of 3 divers come back on > the boat with the reel birdnested. Think they could handle a spool? > Think they could handle a spool? I'm sure they could, if properly taught. They dive as they are taught and as they see others doing. It's just the way they do it here. Everyone knows compasses don't work here. > >> > I am going to buy a big reel before next season > >> Here you go... It should hold all the line that you are likely to > >> need... http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(tiggyd55niyp2o455auc33mt)/ProductDetails.aspx? SKU=3009271&Source=froogle > > Fuckin' spammer... > Better do some research on the design & flaws first. Seems to be a line > retrieval problem with one type. > Seen a lot of 3000 ft spools go out full, line neatly rolled and > secured, only to see them return half to completely empty of line. =;-) You get the weekend with the wife and kids? Hope so. Check it out; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW3xEbhs3ug > http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(tiggyd55niyp2o455auc33mt)/ProductDetails.aspx? SKU=3009271&Source=froogle > > Fuckin' spammer... Yeah, but a spammer with a sense of humor... I wonder how much cave line you could put on one of those... http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(tiggyd55niyp2o455auc33mt)/ProductDetails.aspx? SKU=3009271&Source=froogle > > Fuckin' spammer... > > Yeah, but a spammer with a sense of humor... > > I wonder how much cave line you could put on one of those... 1/4" or 3/16"? >> I wonder how much cave line you could put on one of those... > 1/4" or 3/16"? Even gold line is smaller than that....... Curtis > 1/4" or 3/16"? Actually, I was thinking of #24 braided line... On the other hand, I've used #18 braided mason's line... Either one would end up with more line on the reel than I could reasonably expect to use to penetrate any sort of cave without using scooters and tons of tanks stored throughout the cave beforehand... As curious as I might be though, I'm not willing to go up to Home Depot and buy a few thousand feet of mason's line and spend the next couple of days winding it onto the electrical cord reel... I'm fairly certain that I have better things to do with my time -- like drink beer... > As curious as I might be > though, I'm not willing to go up to Home Depot and buy a few thousand > feet of mason's line and spend the next couple of days winding it onto > the electrical cord reel... I'm fairly certain that I have better > things to do with my time -- like drink beer... Try tying knots precisely every 9 ft 10 in in a few thousand feet of line > > As curious as I might be > > though, I'm not willing to go up to Home Depot and buy a few thousand [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Try tying knots precisely every 9 ft 10 in in a few thousand feet of > line The local electrician has no problem with that. >> As curious as I might be >> though, I'm not willing to go up to Home Depot and buy a few thousand [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > line > Why use 9'10" instead of 10'? Is it to allow for stretch in the line? > Why use 9'10" instead of 10'? Is it to allow for stretch in the line? Yes. >> Why use 9'10" instead of 10'? Is it to allow for stretch in the line? > > Yes. In addition, 9'10" is very close to 3 meters so that the Euro-weenies will be happy since they use the metric system... Since they use the metric system, their lines don't stretch... <snicker> > In addition, 9'10" is very close to 3 meters so that the Euro-weenies > will be happy since they use the metric system... Since they use the > metric system, their lines don't stretch... <snicker> Jim Cobb said something like "When these metric sumbitches build a metric spaceship, fly it to the moon, get out and drive around in a metric moon buggy, and then fly back to earth and land, I'll switch." > Jim Cobb said something like "When these metric sumbitches build a > metric spaceship, fly it to the moon, get out and drive around in a > metric moon buggy, and then fly back to earth and land, I'll switch." What do the Russians use? > What do the Russians use? When did they > > build a metric spaceship, fly it to the moon, get out and drive around in a > > metric moon buggy, and then fly back to earth ?? > In article <1194827455.939592.128...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, > moss...@qnet.com says... [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > ?? My bad. I thought they had walked on the moon too, but apparently they didn't. Weird, it can't be too much more hostile than Siberia. > My bad. I thought they had walked on the moon too, but apparently > they didn't. Weird, it can't be too much more hostile than Siberia. Well, it would make for a rather secure place to store their political prisioners... Next thing you know, the Moon will the be new Australia... Hmmm... I guess that means they would need to ship some sheep up there also so the prisoners don't get too lonely... Hey, it worked for the Aussies... <snicker> > > In article <1194827455.939592.128...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, > > moss...@qnet.com says... [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > My bad. I thought they had walked on the moon too, but apparently > they didn't. Weird, it can't be too much more hostile than Siberia. In reallity it is. No water, no wind and that terrible dust. It's perfect place for desert lovers. Janusz > > In addition, 9'10" is very close to 3 meters so that the Euro-weenies > > will be happy since they use the metric system... Since they use the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > metric spaceship, fly it to the moon, get out and drive around in a > metric moon buggy, and then fly back to earth and land, I'll switch." It's FM; f.cking Metric. > > In article <HISdnT9jlNHmEqranZ2dnUVZ_jKdn...@comcast.com>, grumman581 > > @DIE-SPAMMER-SCUM-gmail.com says... [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > f.cking Metric. No, my dumb friend it is a system which was adapted by all countries except three Liberia, Myanmar and the USofA. Really good company Janusz > In article <HISdnT9jlNHmEqranZ2dnUVZ_jKdn...@comcast.com>, grumman581 > @DIE-SPAMMER-SCUM-gmail.com says... [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > metric spaceship, fly it to the moon, get out and drive around in a > metric moon buggy, and then fly back to earth and land, I'll switch." If anyone supports this idiocy - it's time to learn metrics :-)))) http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2007/08jan_metricmoon.htm Janusz >> In article <HISdnT9jlNHmEqranZ2dnUVZ_jKdn...@comcast.com>, grumman581 >> @DIE-SPAMMER-SCUM-gmail.com says... [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Janusz and there would be 1 more Mars Orbiter: http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9909/30/mars.metric/ ;-) On 12 Lis, 23:27, Michael Wolf <michael.w...@advalvasstopspam.be> wrote: > "janus...@hotmail.com" <janus...@hotmail.com> wrote innews:1194905699.591570.261780@v3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com: > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > ;-) only one? ;-(((((((((( BTW the screw up was possible thanks to some idiots from Colorado. Maybe your new pet was involved (piasystems.com) ? Janusz > On 12 Lis, 23:27, Michael Wolf <michael.w...@advalvasstopspam.be> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Janusz No, he's just learning to count >:-) > > What boat have you been diving on? I've been doing a little NJ diving > > from a few different boats. > > Is it still the "Star Wars Bar Scene"? You mean all the successful Doria divers? How many times have you succesfully dove the Doria? Just curious. >> Never heard about >> Dutch Springs... that's a definitive maybe. I will let you know if I can [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > some new gear. You're more than welcome to join us and try my wings and > STA's. I meant "never heard about Agir-Brokk wings" but I guess I never finished the sentence. > What boat have you been diving on? I've been doing a little NJ diving > from a few different boats. I dove all season with the Jeanne II out of Sheepsead Bay, Brooklyn. They are 10 minutes away from home, their crew is by far the best of any boat I ever dove and they do nice offshore wrecks. The bad news is that most of the wrecks we dive of NJ are a 2 hour (plus) bost ride each way. Ed > I dove all season with the Jeanne II out of Sheepsead Bay, Brooklyn. They > are 10 minutes away from home, their crew is by far the best of any boat I > ever dove and they do nice offshore wrecks. The bad news is that most of the > wrecks we dive of NJ are a 2 hour (plus) bost ride each way. > Ed 2 hours each way? In the North Atlantic? To dive in water the temp of my rum & OJ? Gawwwwwwd, that sounds like fun. I'm off to San Salvador with the lovely Deborah. Short boat rides. 83 degrees. The bad news is that we have to leave the house at 5 am tomorrow. Report when I return. esg > I'm off to San Salvador with the lovely Deborah. Short boat rides. 83 > degrees. The bad news is that we have to leave the house at 5 am tomorrow. > Report when I return. You two have a fun & safe trip. Are you thinking about a pre-turkey dive on the 22nd? Curtis >>I'm off to San Salvador with the lovely Deborah. Short boat rides. 83 >>degrees. The bad news is that we have to leave the house at 5 am tomorrow. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Are you thinking about a pre-turkey dive on the 22nd? Prolly not. Spending the day with friends. Check with me when we get back home. esg > 2 hours each way? In the North Atlantic? To dive in water the temp of my > rum & OJ? > > Gawwwwwwd, that sounds like fun. Agreed... If I want a 2 hr trip, I'll fly down to Cozumel... >> I dove all season with the Jeanne II out of Sheepsead Bay, Brooklyn. They >> are 10 minutes away from home, their crew is by far the best of any boat [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > 2 hours each way? In the North Atlantic? To dive in water the temp of my > rum & OJ? You forgot to mention poor viz, dark and sometimes rough seas, but I wouldn't change it for anything! > Gawwwwwwd, that sounds like fun. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > esg > Gawwwwwwd, that sounds like fun. > > I'm off to San Salvador with the lovely Deborah. Short boat rides. 83 > degrees. The bad news is that we have to leave the house at 5 am > tomorrow. Report when I return. Diving in San Salvador? Which San Salvador is this? > I dove all season with the Jeanne II out of Sheepsead Bay, Brooklyn. They > are 10 minutes away from home, their crew is by far the best of any boat I > ever dove and they do nice offshore wrecks. The bad news is that most of the > wrecks we dive of NJ are a 2 hour (plus) bost ride each way. I just looked at their website; it looks like an aluminum crew boat. What does it run, about 16-18 kts? The good thing in NJ is that there are some fast boats now (24-26 kts), and the boat rides quick. There are still a few of the old sea cows there though. Good call. She used to be a crew boat to haul men back and forth oil rigs. When she became a dive boat, it was customized with divers benches all along the stern sides so there is no need for a central table! It has a flat bottom and her speed is more like 13 to15 knots. Inside she has 8 benches very suitable for morning and afternoon naps, a couple of tables and a very usable head. By the way, you can see me diving on the web site under the New Wreck video or click the link http://www.jeanne-ii.com/videonw.html If you are up to a drive to Brooklyn, lets make plans for next spring. Rgds, Ed >> I dove all season with the Jeanne II out of Sheepsead Bay, Brooklyn. They >> are 10 minutes away from home, their crew is by far the best of any boat [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > are some fast boats now (24-26 kts), and the boat rides quick. There are > still a few of the old sea cows there though. > Good call. She used to be a crew boat to haul men back and forth oil rigs. > When she became a dive boat, it was customized with divers benches all along > the stern sides so there is no need for a central table! Those boats make pretty good dive boats if set up right, but they are a little slow for my liking. > By the way, you can see me diving on the web site under the New Wreck video > or click the link http://www.jeanne-ii.com/videonw.html Very cool video. did you ever figure out what that wreck is? > If you are up to a drive to Brooklyn, lets make plans for next spring. I'm sure I can work it in. I like the wrecks that are offshore. We had some really good conditions out there in September and October. What can you get to from there? Do you go to the San Diego or Oregon? The wreck is still unidentified. Since 2003 it deteriorated quite a bit and most of the deck that you see in the video has collapsed. Nevertheless it is still a nice dive with very decent visibility and abundant marine life. Unfortunately from Brooklyn neither the Oregon or the San Diego are reachable. Those would require Long Island boats. I dove them a few times and they are both very nice dives. The better wrecks that we go are the Stolt, the Algol, the Arundo, the G&D, the Coney Island, the USN 127. The RC Mohawk is not bad at all when viz is half way decent. Depending if you are into lobstering or artifact/bottle collection there are several other wrecks that are worth while. >> Good call. She used to be a crew boat to haul men back and forth oil >> rigs. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > some really good conditions out there in September and October. What can > you get to from there? Do you go to the San Diego or Oregon? > The better wrecks that we go are the Stolt, the Algol, the Arundo, the G&D, > the Coney Island, the USN 127. The RC Mohawk is not bad at all when viz is > half way decent. > Depending if you are into lobstering or artifact/bottle collection there are > several other wrecks that are worth while. I haven't been to the Stolt yet, and I love the Arundo - it is one of the most interesting wrecks I've been on. I don't much care for stuff that was put there on purpose. Lobsters and scallops are always good, and artifact hunting is fun too. We will get together and dive. The Arundo is also one of my favorite wrecks. I dove it at least 20 times, and every dive is different. A few years ago I picked up the steering wheel of a Jeep and other truck spare parts. On another memorable dive I saw for the first and only time one of the train locomotives lying on its side. It was alike a true epiphany! Man sunken ships are good as artificial reefs and skill practicing, but they lack the soul and history that natural wrecks have. >> The better wrecks that we go are the Stolt, the Algol, the Arundo, the >> G&D, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > that was put there on purpose. Lobsters and scallops are always good, > and artifact hunting is fun too. We will get together and dive. |
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