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Scuba Forum / General / November 2007Wetsuit fitting
Originally, I went over to my LDS and tried on a 5/4mm Bare wetsuit. It was snug all around, with the exception of the small of my back. It was also very hard to get on. I must have jumped up and down for 5 minutes just to put the crotch into place not to mention getting my arms and shoulders into place. However, once on it felt pretty good. It was also hard to get off. I actually wanted a 3/2 suit, so he ordered one in the same size. When it arrived I tried it on. It was snug, but fairly easy to pull on and also easy to get my arms in and pull the shoulders up. It felt comfortable, a bit snug in the chest and the arms were a bit loose. I talked the owner into getting a size smaller to try, and it should arrive when he gets back from a dive trip. I'll be able to try them both side by side, so one should fit. My question is, I've researched the hell out of wetsuit fitting and come up with the following "rules." 1. A wetsuit should fit like a second skin; tight, but not so tight it cuts off the circulation. 2. If it feels perfect or too comfortable it's probably too big. 3. The suit will stretch some, especially in the water, so think about that when trying one on. 4. If your shoulders slip out too easily when you take it off it's too big. 5. If you are between sizes you may want to go with the smaller size (Scuba Toys claims that when they send out two different size suits the diver generally chooses the smaller size). Any thoughts on these rules and fitting a wetsuit in general? Will it, in fact, loosen up a bit in the water? This is my first wetsuit, so I want to get a good fit right off the bat. It will be a Bare, and I don't want to spring for a custom suit. As a novice, I've only worn a shorty in the water, and remember it being extremely tight and hard to get on. Once in the water I was fine. I was also broiling before I got in the water. I don't remember feeling hot in either suit I tried on in the shop. Thanks for your advice. Sheldon > Originally, I went over to my LDS and tried on a 5/4mm Bare wetsuit. It was > snug all around, with the exception of the small of my back. It was also [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > 1. A wetsuit should fit like a second skin; tight, but not so tight it cuts > off the circulation. No. > 2. If it feels perfect or too comfortable it's probably too big. No, > 3. The suit will stretch some, especially in the water, so think about that > when trying one on. No. > 4. If your shoulders slip out too easily when you take it off it's too big. No. > 5. If you are between sizes you may want to go with the smaller size (Scuba > Toys claims that when they send out two different size suits the diver > generally chooses the smaller size). No. Larger. > Any thoughts on these rules and fitting a wetsuit in general? Will it, in > fact, loosen up a bit in the water? No. Because the water helps gliding, you may feel the faults in fit less. A wet suit, once on, should feel comfortable all around. A proper fit is the one which makes you think wether you could go with a one size smaller. Chest expansion should not be hindered a bit. There should be absolutele no pressure zones at the neck, especially not at the carotis/ adams appel area. The wrist ands ankle seals should have slick skin on the outside, and enough length to be comfortabley folded back to seal, and coverd by same material with the lycra towards the outside. There should be only a minimum in zips. A Long John + Jacket with only one zip running from the lift breast down is all it needs, and is the warmest suit around. The face seal should allow the mask to seal on the outside, which is also ideal for full face masks. A seal towards the skin here leaves you with the problem of fitting the mask so there is no skin left uncovered. Lion manes will like that, tough. Matthias >> Originally, I went over to my LDS and tried on a 5/4mm Bare wetsuit. It >> was snug all around, with the exception of the small of my back. It was [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > > Matthias Sounds like you are saying I should go with the one I originally ordered if the smaller one feels really snug. That the wetsuit "should" feel comfortable when first tried on as long as it's not loose. >>>Originally, I went over to my LDS and tried on a 5/4mm Bare wetsuit. It >>>was snug all around, with the exception of the small of my back. It was [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] > the smaller one feels really snug. That the wetsuit "should" feel > comfortable when first tried on as long as it's not loose. In addition to what I wrtote before, I pay attention to another detail. I want to be able to raise my arms and be able to "grab the stars" without feeling suit based constrictions. If a suit fits this demand, I will be able to swim crawl style in it. And keep my arms pointed ahead in normal diving, without isometric stress. When a suit is not perfect here, but otherwise ok, I can always have it changed by my favorite neoprene seamstress. Matthias "Sheldon" <sheldon@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :Any thoughts on these rules and fitting a wetsuit in general? Will it, in :fact, loosen up a bit in the water? This is my first wetsuit, so I want to :get a good fit right off the bat. It will be a Bare, and I don't want to :spring for a custom suit. Springing for a custom suit is money well spent. Dan Bracuk Never use a big word when a diminutive one will do. > Springing for a custom suit is money well spent. I agree, I bought a Rubatex custom suit and have been very happy with it. >> Springing for a custom suit is money well spent. > > I agree, I bought a Rubatex custom suit and have been very happy with > it. If I had the opportunity to dive more I probably would. > I agree, I bought a Rubatex custom suit and have been very happy with > it. Are the buoyancy and/or compression characteristics different from other materials? Lee > Are the buoyancy and/or compression characteristics different from other > materials? From what I gathered, it doesn't compress as readily and it tend to last through more compression / decompression cycles while still retaining its original thickness afterwards... >>I agree, I bought a Rubatex custom suit and have been very happy with >>it. > > Are the buoyancy and/or compression characteristics different from other > materials? As far as I can tell yes. I felt I did not need as much air to compensate for bouyancy losses, as well the span within which you could keep bouyant by your lungs extended. And much less compression/shrinking in longterm use. Matthias > > I agree, I bought a Rubatex custom suit and have been very happy with > > it. > > Are the buoyancy and/or compression characteristics different from other > materials? It definitely doesn't compress as much, and is still 3mm thick, but it hasn't made any trips to 300 ft. I don't really know about buoyancy, because unless there's something really unusual it's sort of automatic to me and I don't think about it. It is definitely warmer than any 3 mm suit I've had before. Another big factor is that most neoprene stretches in only one direction, while the Rubatex will stretch in every direction. This makes the suit a lot easier to put on and take off. They were giving really good deals on custom suits at the Beneath the Sea show up here. The guy from Wetwear measured me at the show and I had a perfect suit in a few weeks. I'm going to get a 5 mm and a new hood if they have the same deals at the next show. > It definitely doesn't compress as much, and is still 3mm thick, but it > hasn't made any trips to 300 ft. I don't really know about buoyancy, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Rubatex will stretch in every direction. This makes the suit a lot > easier to put on and take off. Thanks, Al. You've gone a long way towards talking me into one once I finish my weight loss program. Weight Watchers seems to be working. I'm down about 10 lbs so far. Jayna's been on the program a bit longer and has lost about twice that. I have close to 40 lbs left to go to my "perfect" weight, 30 lbs to a weight I can live with. Lee > > It definitely doesn't compress as much, and is still 3mm thick, but it > > hasn't made any trips to 300 ft. I don't really know about buoyancy, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > twice that. I have close to 40 lbs left to go to my "perfect" weight, 30 lbs > to a weight I can live with. Lee, FWIW - my wife has a Wetwear suit, and loves it. Same route as Al; measured at BTS, delivered within a couple of weeks, flawless fit. Good luck with your program. I should do something like that too.  SignatureArt Greenberg artg at eclipse dot net "Lee Bell" <pleebell@bellsouth.net> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :Thanks, Al. You've gone a long way towards talking me into one once I finish :my weight loss program. Weight Watchers seems to be working. I'm down about :10 lbs so far. Jayna's been on the program a bit longer and has lost about :twice that. I have close to 40 lbs left to go to my "perfect" weight, 30 lbs :to a weight I can live with. You're on the right track. Tell as many people as possible how much weight you intend to lose so that the price of not doing so will be more embarrassment than one can bear. Dan Bracuk Never use a big word when a diminutive one will do. > :Thanks, Al. You've gone a long way towards talking me into one once I > finish [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > weight you intend to lose so that the price of not doing so will be > more embarrassment than one can bear. In case you haven't noticed, my exercise of willpower is not based on the opinions of others about my success or failure. I'll lose the weight because it's important enough to me to do so, or I won't lose it. So far, it looks like I will. Lee "Lee Bell" <pleebell@bellsouth.net> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :I'll lose the weight because it's important enough to me to do so, or I :won't lose it. So far, it looks like I will. As soon as you shrink out of an article of clothing, get rid of it. That will make it even more important to keep it off. Dan Bracuk Never use a big word when a diminutive one will do. > Another big > factor is that most neoprene stretches in only one direction, while the > Rubatex will stretch in every direction. This makes the suit a lot > easier to put on and take off. I have to wonder if that is more a factor of the lining to the wetsuit vs the actual type of neoprene rubber... I'm not saying that Rubatex might not be more stretchy, but from an engineering standpoint, I don't see why any unlined neoprene would be more stretchy in one direction vs another... -The newer and more expensive flexible neoprene are more comfortable and give better fit. I like the smooth linings like in the Henderson Gold. -get the largest size such that there are no gaps between your skin and the suit. Any gap on land will enlarge in the water -the suit restricts you movement and breathing to some extent, and you want a suit that minimizes this. You don't want a suit that's too small. -get the thinnest suit that still keeps you warm. Extra neoprene means extra problems. Adam > -The newer and more expensive flexible neoprene are more comfortable and > give better fit. I like the smooth linings like in the Henderson Gold. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Adam I'm starting to get the idea that the suit should be very comfortable on land. Not loose, but comfortable. Sheldon >>-The newer and more expensive flexible neoprene are more comfortable and >>give better fit. I like the smooth linings like in the Henderson Gold. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Sheldon A wetsuit traps a layer of water between the suit and your body. Your body heat, warms that layer of water which helps keep you warm. If the suit is too loose, there is a lot more water to heat and/or, the water warmed by your body is not trapped in the suit and is quickly replaced by cooler water, causing the diver to lose more body heat. If the suit is too tight, it restricts movement making the diver work harder, possibly restricting breathing. > A wetsuit traps a layer of water between the suit and your body. Your > body heat, warms that layer of water which helps keep you warm. If the > suit is too loose, there is a lot more water to heat and/or, the water > warmed by your body is not trapped in the suit and is quickly replaced > by cooler water, causing the diver to lose more body heat. Actually, that's not quite right... The less water a suit lets in, the warmer it will feel... That's the reasoning behind the semi-dry suits... It's the thickness of the neoprene and it's insulating capabilities that make you feel warmer... >>A wetsuit traps a layer of water between the suit and your body. Your >>body heat, warms that layer of water which helps keep you warm. If the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > suits... It's the thickness of the neoprene and it's insulating > capabilities that make you feel warmer... I realize "more neoprene=more warmth". I was just addressing the "fit" part of wetsuit equation. You can have a 9mil suit but if its 3 sizes too big for you and water flows through it, the thickness is not going to matter much because your body is constantly re-heating the water. The other side of that equation (your point), you can have a practically water tight 2mil and freeze your a.s off in 50 degree water. > The other side of that equation (your point), you can have a practically > water tight 2mil and freeze your a.s off in 50 degree water. My 'nads shrank up just thinking about that... Brrrrrr... On the other hand, there are the wetsuit warmers (the electrically powered ones, not the "drink a 12-pack before getting in the water" type... I suspect that by the nature of them, you want a little water inside to help distribute the warmth from the heating pad to the rest of the body... >>The other side of that equation (your point), you can have a practically >>water tight 2mil and freeze your a.s off in 50 degree water. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > inside to help distribute the warmth from the heating pad to the rest > of the body... I'll look into that option when they come out with the nuclear powered model. Never got much use out of the old style coal powered wetsuit warmer. > I'll look into that option when they come out with the nuclear powered > model. Well, it's not like we have any other use for spent nuclear fuel rods, right? Seriously though... The electrically powered ones hook up to a canister light type battery pack, so they probably last long enough for most dives... I suspect that if the water is cold enough that you want to consider this that the extra weight of a battery pack would offset the extra neoprene thickness that you're probably also carrying... >>-The newer and more expensive flexible neoprene are more comfortable and >>give better fit. I like the smooth linings like in the Henderson Gold. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Sheldon I respectfully disagree. A wetsuit that feels very comfortable on land, and is easy to get into, is going to leave way too much room for water to slosh around in and pump through. It's the circulating water that robs you of body heat. This is why the usual advice is to get a snug fitting suit. Ideally, there should be no void spaces--your skin should be in contact with neoprene, all around. Snug is a relative term. The suit shouldn't restrict movement-- not much, anyway. You definitely shouldn't feel strangled. Fit in an off-the-rack wetsuit is going to be a compromise, it's bound to be a bit too tight in some places, a bit loose in others. I'ts good to have someone experienced eyeball the fit for you, looking for voids and puckers. The thicker the suit, the harder it's going to be to put on. But it definitely shouldn't be easy to put on. It shouldn't fit like regular clothes. In the water, it will loosen up considerably. Why are you restricted to one brand? Different brands are cut differently. Recently I was trying on Henderson suits, and couldn't get a decent fit. Went with an Aqua-Lung that was near-perfect proportions for me. It's a bear to put on, but it "disappears" once I'm in the water (it's thick, a 7mm, but it's also a hyperstretch.) I've also got a nice, comfortable 3/2mm Neo-Sport for travel. It's much easier to put on. It also fills up like a water balloon. >>>-The newer and more expensive flexible neoprene are more comfortable and >>>give better fit. I like the smooth linings like in the Henderson Gold. [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > I've also got a nice, comfortable 3/2mm Neo-Sport for travel. It's much > easier to put on. It also fills up like a water balloon. My limit is simply because I'm going with the advice of my LDS and the owner was my instructor and should now help me choose between a M and a ML. Also, Bare has a lot of different sizes compared to other off the rack wetsuit companies. It's a small shop and his selection is small. When I tried on the 5mm suit I just assumed it would transfer over to a 3mm. >>>>-The newer and more expensive flexible neoprene are more comfortable and give >>>>better fit. I like the smooth linings like in the Henderson Gold. [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > small shop and his selection is small. When I tried on the 5mm suit I just assumed > it would transfer over to a 3mm. Can I ask you where you plan to be diving? Adam >>>>>-The newer and more expensive flexible neoprene are more comfortable >>>>>and give better fit. I like the smooth linings like in the Henderson [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > Can I ask you where you plan to be diving? Belize. My thought was if I get chilled I can add a torso warmer with a hood. If I dive anything colder (up to a dry suit) I can layer another suit over mine and at least have my own suit against me. I realize that layering works, but is not quite as good as one heavier suit that fits correctly. >>>>>>-The newer and more expensive flexible neoprene are more comfortable >>>>>>and give better fit. I like the smooth linings like in the Henderson [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > least have my own suit against me. I realize that layering works, but is not quite > as good as one heavier suit that fits correctly. The water temp in Belize is around 80F. The 3/2 should be ideal. Unless you get unusually cold I would not take any more than that. Adam >>>>>>>-The newer and more expensive flexible neoprene are more comfortable >>>>>>>and give better fit. I like the smooth linings like in the Henderson [quoted text clipped - 70 lines] > > Adam I agree. I think a lot of it depends on how long I stay down and how active I am. "Sheldon" <sheldon@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :Belize. My thought was if I get chilled I can add a torso warmer with a :hood. Just the hood will make a lot of difference. Dan Bracuk Never use a big word when a diminutive one will do. >>> -The newer and more expensive flexible neoprene are more comfortable >>> and give better fit. I like the smooth linings like in the Henderson [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > to slosh around in and pump through. It's the circulating water that > robs you of body heat. You are walking on thin ice with that claim. A cut, and fit, which eases donning, has nothing to do with alloweing water ingress. This is determined by another quality, which is called "seals". That is, number, design, and quality of zips ( the less the better), and seals and face, wrists, and ankles. A serious suit has slick skin seals there, which, when folded back with the slick side next to the skin, make a near perfect seal, be the suit a semi dry or a dry suit. Suits not made to these critaria have no bvusiness here, but are merely a nuisance, as the wearer will have to endure their inferiority. A well made comfortable suit will, like any other suit, shrink by losing gas volume, and thus become a tighter fit. Especially as you dive deeper, and fly more frequnetly. A suit with a tight fit from the beginning will be rendered to small then, and create chest compression, which may be dangerous. > This is why the usual advice is to get a snug > fitting suit. Ideally, there should be no void spaces--your skin should > be in contact with neoprene, all around. Without stretch. A suit may shrink up to 3-4 sizes. > Snug is a relative term. The suit shouldn't restrict movement-- not > much, anyway. You definitely shouldn't feel strangled. Fit in an [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > puckers. The thicker the suit, the harder it's going to be to put on. > But it definitely shouldn't be easy to put on. Mine is. It was custom made, to tight after a couple of deep dives, and then custo changed by my neoprens seamstress, to fit like a second skin, without any stretching. Donning is like with any long john, and the jacket like a pullover. One zip down from breast, that's it. Becuase it is preshrunk by use, it won't shrink much anymore, and secure a best fit for many years. > It shouldn't fit like > regular clothes. In the water, it will loosen up considerably. Never felt like that with all my wetsuits in 25 years. Water just reduces some friction. > Why are you restricted to one brand? Different brands are cut > differently. Recently I was trying on Henderson suits, and couldn't get > a decent fit. Went with an Aqua-Lung that was near-perfect proportions > for me. It's a bear to put on, but it "disappears" once I'm in the > water (it's thick, a 7mm, but it's also a hyperstretch.) So it will shrink down 4 sizes. Matthias > A well made comfortable suit will, like any other suit, shrink by losing > gas volume, and thus become a tighter fit. > Especially as you dive deeper, and fly more frequnetly. Yes and no. The gas is compressed, but the suit does not get tighter because of it. It only gets thinner. > A suit with a tight fit from the beginning will be rendered to small then, > and create chest compression, which may be dangerous. No. >>A well made comfortable suit will, like any other suit, shrink by losing >>gas volume, and thus become a tighter fit. >>Especially as you dive deeper, and fly more frequnetly. > > Yes and no. The gas is compressed, but the suit does not get tighter because > of it. It only gets thinner. >>A suit with a tight fit from the beginning will be rendered to small then, >>and create chest compression, which may be dangerous. Suits get tighter because shrinking is 3 dimensional. The fits gets narrower and shorter. The actual direction of shrink is very much influenced by the outer/iner fabric, though. I once had a suit made to measure, which is about size 52 foe legs, and 56 for upper body with me. This suit shrank to a size of ca. 48. The seamstress later had to add 20 cm to the circumference. Matthias >>>A well made comfortable suit will, like any other suit, shrink by losing >>>gas volume, and thus become a tighter fit. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Matthias Will you guys make up your minds. A wetsuit either shrinks, stays the same or get larger in water. It can't do all three, based on all the posts so far. > >>>A well made comfortable suit will, like any other suit, shrink by losing > >>>gas volume, and thus become a tighter fit. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > or get larger in water. It can't do all three, based on all the posts so > far. But this is rec.scuba. where anything is possible! gc > Will you guys make up your minds. A wetsuit either shrinks, stays the same > or get larger in water. It can't do all three, based on all the posts so > far. They are all right. They shrink when dry. I usually try to get mine wet ASAP after donning it so it will lossen up. They bubbles trapped in the neoprene compress under pressure so the suit gets thinner and offeres less insulation as you dive deeper. You want a tight wetsuit so that it doesnt "ship water" too much. A wetsuit works by letting a thin layer of water be heated by your body, and then kept there, and insulated from loss by the neoprene. It aint rocket surgery. > Will you guys make up your minds. A wetsuit either shrinks, stays the > same or get larger in water. It can't do all three, based on all the > posts so far. The cells inside the material are gas filled. They compress as ambient pressure increases. Mathias believes the compression if in all dimensions, I know the material gets thinner. I know my wetsuit does not get significantly tighter as it compresses. Mathias knows his does. The difference may be because he's wearing a thicker wetsuit that shrinks with enough force to be noticable versus my thinner one that doesn't. It's possible we're both right. Lee >>>>A well made comfortable suit will, like any other suit, shrink by losing gas >>>>volume, and thus become a tighter fit. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Will you guys make up your minds. A wetsuit either shrinks, stays the same or get > larger in water. It can't do all three, based on all the posts so far. When sizing your suit, try donning one size larger and one size smaller. Although it's true that a wet suit will feel tight compared to regular clothes, it should not feel like it's restricting your breathing and you should be able to move your arms and legs without too much excess effort. On the other hand there should be minimal gaps between the suit and skin and no folds. Take the largest one that has no gaps nor folds. One trick I use to don my 7/5 is to spray some hair conditioner on my legs and also into my gloves and boots. Makes donning much easier. Probably not necessary on a 3/2. Adam >>>>>A well made comfortable suit will, like any other suit, shrink by >>>>>losing gas volume, and thus become a tighter fit. [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Adam The ML fit pretty good except for the arms. I was a bit concerned because it was pretty easy to get on and take off, but I think the seals are pretty tight. I plan on trying the ML, which certainly isn't too tight, and the M and buying whichever fits best. I got an email back from Bare and they were very helpful. I think a lot of the confusion stems from the fact that it all depends on how "stretchy" the material is. According to Bare, the more stretchy the fabric the tighter you can get it, so they said on the suit that I'm getting to make it comfortable from the start. I'll also pay extra attention to the seals at the arms, ankles and neck. Even if it's a "tad" big, if it seals up where the water is going to come in and out I should be fine. I'm thinking about getting a torso heater and hood just to have with me since the price is pretty cheap. Sheldon > The ML fit pretty good except for the arms. I was a bit concerned because > it was pretty easy to get on and take off, but I think the seals are pretty [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Sheldon The hood is a good thing to have. Essential here in New England. You lose a lot of body heat through the scalp. Hoods are also kind of a pain... they can interfere with equalizing, and on the surface EVERYONE HAS TO SHOUT TO BE HEARD. Hyperstretch neoprene is a godsend. Easier to put on, and a better fit. The stuff does have one minor drawback: the external nylon material isn't as robust, and is subject to Velcro-induces fuzzies. This doesn't damage the suit, it only affects the appearance. Still, I find it annoying that anything Velcro in the dive bag sticks like magnets to the suit, and has to be rrriped off it. It has also been claimed by some that hyperstretch neoprene compresses more at depth, thus making these suits a poor choice for deep diving. Can't say myself, as I don't dive deep. Guys in the dive shop told me that back in the old days, some used K-Y jelly to help pull on a wetsuit. Suspect they were pulling my leg. > Guys in the dive shop told me that back in the old days, some used K-Y > jelly to help pull on a wetsuit. Suspect they were pulling my leg. I use dish a solution of dish soap and water, in a spray bottle. Spray the inside of the suit, and it slips on like a greased .... wetsuit. SignatureArt Greenberg artg at eclipse dot net Paul Foley <paulfxfoley@earthlink.net> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :Guys in the dive shop told me that back in the old days, some used K-Y :jelly to help pull on a wetsuit. Suspect they were pulling my leg. I've seen baby powder being used. Dan Bracuk Never use a big word when a diminutive one will do. > Hyperstretch neoprene is a godsend. Easier to put on, and a better fit. Hyperstretch neoprene sucks. Hyperstretch neoprene is a godsend. And that's just my observations. >> The ML fit pretty good except for the arms. I was a bit concerned >> because it was pretty easy to get on and take off, but I think the [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > K-Y > jelly to help pull on a wetsuit. Suspect they were pulling my leg. Ummm.... people here are still using the cheapo KY to get drysuit seals on, and occasionally wetsuits. Personally, I prefer a lycra "skinsuit". -Don |
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