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Scuba Forum / General / November 2007Sat am dive report from Boynton
Seas flat with 10' rollers, <5' viz. Larry (Manta) turned around in the inlet when he saw the surf over the new sandbar at the entrance. Craig (Starfish) made it out, dropped on a wreck, viz so bad everyone came up and he made it back in. Jim (Loggerhead) got turned sideways at the inlet, rolled it a few times. Boat is destroyed, divers taken to the hospital but early word is no serious injuries, gear still washing up on the beach. Great day for surfing! esg > Seas flat with 10' rollers, <5' viz. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > esg I am surprised they even went out much less put divers in the water. Were you out on any of the boats or just reporting? >> Seas flat with 10' rollers, <5' viz. >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Were you out on any of the boats or just reporting? I hadn't even thought about going out today. First heard about it from Ed T who was on Manta, then went up to see for myself. Latest version is that the boat nosed into the sandbar and the next set rolled it nose over stern. Everyone is OK, 4 divers and Cap. Jim. esg >>> Seas flat with 10' rollers, <5' viz. >>> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > esg Glad everyone is OK. Did a quick search and read the latest news account. Looking at the Loggerhead website I am guessing about a 40-45ft boat? With an end over end roll, they're damn lucky no one got seriously hurt. Guess the Captain is gonna have some "splain-in" to do. > Glad everyone is OK. Did a quick search and read the latest news > account. Looking at the Loggerhead website I am guessing about a > 40-45ft boat? With an end over end roll, they're damn lucky no one got > seriously hurt. Guess the Captain is gonna have some "splain-in" to do. Final version is that he got out past the sandbar, got the viz report (none) and turned back. On the entry he hit the sandbar and it was stern over bow. Three people went to the hospital, two refused treatment. All released with no big hurts. Two of the five swam to shore, three were assisted in by seadoos. The boat is totaled. I think it was 36', not sure exactly but close. It's close to shore there, and shallow, but it is a damned miracle that no one was hurt. esg > It's close to shore there, and shallow, but it is a damned miracle that > no one was hurt. So, in other words, there's a new wreck dive? >> It's close to shore there, and shallow, but it is a damned miracle >> that no one was hurt. > > So, in other words, there's a new wreck dive? No such luck. It's beached and the CG has a limit on how long it can be left. Loggerhead will have to remove it soon. esg >>> It's close to shore there, and shallow, but it is a damned miracle that >>> no one was hurt. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > esg Harsh gig. I'm glad everyone did okay. I've crewed for Capt. Jim many times, and he's a first rate dive boat captain.  Signature"If you guys would just settle to earth and admit that guns are just noisy potentially dangerous tools and quit waving them around like a steel dick then there's be no need for discussions like this." - JOF Popeye/ www.finalprotectivefire.com http://picasaweb.google.com/Popeye8762 > I've crewed for Capt. Jim many times, and he's a first rate dive boat > captain. Apparently not. > Apparently not. Awh, come on... How many other dive boat captains are willing to go that extra mile to ensure that you get a wreck dive that no one has ever dived before? >> I've crewed for Capt. Jim many times, and he's a first rate dive boat >> captain. > > Apparently not. Everybody has an opinion. Mine is backed by extensive personal experience, assuming it's the same guy. Signature"If you guys would just settle to earth and admit that guns are just noisy potentially dangerous tools and quit waving them around like a steel dick then there's be no need for discussions like this." - JOF Popeye/ www.finalprotectivefire.com http://picasaweb.google.com/Popeye8762 >> Apparently not. > > Everybody has an opinion. > > Mine is backed by extensive personal experience, assuming it's the same > guy. Mine is backed by 54 years operating my own boats in the same area, including my current boat that is about the same size as the one involved in the accident. Sufficient information was available, before the boat left the dock, to make it clear that it was not a good idea to go out that day. The boat went out anyway. That's not indicative of a good captain. He was not the only captain that took a boat out that day. Two others we know of made the same mistake. Of the three, two got back in safely. One did not. That's not indicative of a good captain either. Lee >>> Apparently not. >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > know of made the same mistake. Of the three, two got back in safely. One > did not. That's not indicative of a good captain either. It seems that if two made it back, then it wasn't such a questionable decision to go out that day. I've gone out and turned back more than once (you never have, even once, I guess?), and never had it mentioned that this was poor judgment on the part of the Captain. As to why the boat rolled, unless you have information I don't, no one has mentioned a particular cause. Lastly, my opinion refers to my previous extensive personal experience- this guy captained the Minnow. You opinion refers to some general assumptions. And we're both entitled to our opinions. Signature"If you guys would just settle to earth and admit that guns are just noisy potentially dangerous tools and quit waving them around like a steel dick then there's be no need for discussions like this." - JOF Popeye/ www.finalprotectivefire.com http://picasaweb.google.com/Popeye8762 > It seems that if two made it back, then it wasn't such a questionable > decision to go out that day. He didn't make it back. That pretty much proves it wasn't a good idea. Both the other captains aborted their trips, also suggesting that going out was not a very good idea. The fact that that they got back in safely suggests that they are better captains. > I've gone out and turned back more than once (you never have, even once, > I guess?), and never had it mentioned that this was poor judgment on the > part of the Captain. I have gone out and turned back. Nobody had to tell me it that going out was a poor judgement on the part of the captain. I knew it. That's why I turned back. None of the three captains had to be told they had made a bad decision either. They knew. That's why they turned back. One didn't make it back. Call it what you want, but a wrecked boat and customers in the hospital are pretty strong evidence of his poor judgement. The quality of a captain is not demonstrated by his performance on nice days. It's demonstrated in the quality of his decisions on the bad ones. This captain went out when he should not have, destroyed his boat and injured his passengers in the process. I'm having a bit of trouble understanding why you consider that to be good. > As to why the boat rolled, unless you have information I don't, no one > has mentioned a particular cause. It rolled because the captain took it out into conditions that he and the boat were not able to handle. It was his responsibility to check conditions, his responsibility to decide whether he, his boat and his customers were safe going out that day, and his responsibility to handle the boat responsibly and safely. His responsibility is clear both legally and by custom. He failed in his responsibilities. > You opinion refers to some general assumptions. It is based on experience in the area and as the captain of my own boats. I've had to make the same decision more than once. I've made a wrong decision more than once too. I've yet to make a wrong decision that I was unable to change, allowing my boat and my passengers, to return to port safely. > And we're both entitled to our opinions. True, but you'll have to pardon me for my belief that your statement that he was a good captain, in a discussion about his going out in conditions any captain should have known were unsafe, when the sum of all his decisions resulted in a wrecked boat and injured passengers, is not supported by the facts. Lee >> Glad everyone is OK. Did a quick search and read the latest news >> account. Looking at the Loggerhead website I am guessing about a [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > esg I certainly agree with you on the miracle part. On a side note, and noting no serious injuries, I hope the divers were able to get most if not all of their gear back. I take it none of the passengers tipped the crew that day? <smirk> > I certainly agree with you on the miracle part. On a side note, and > noting no serious injuries, I hope the divers were able to get most if > not all of their gear back. > > I take it none of the passengers tipped the crew that day? The crew? They tipped the entire boat. > Latest version is that the boat nosed into the sandbar and the next set > rolled it nose over stern. > > Everyone is OK, 4 divers and Cap. Jim. Wow, I did a lot of dives off that boat a few years ago with George M. I'm really glad to hear that everyone is OK. Saturday dive report from PA: Seas 16 ft @ 9 seconds; we went to the quarry. 65 degrees down to about 60 ft, vis about 20 ft except for in siltstorms. Dive report from Lake Bell. Water temperatures still in the mid 70's. Vix still sucks. Went for a bicycle ride instead. Lee > Dive report from Lake Bell. > > Water temperatures still in the mid 70's. > Vix still sucks. > Went for a bicycle ride instead. It is Vix_en_. Ride safely. Matthias >> Latest version is that the boat nosed into the sandbar and the next set >> rolled it nose over stern. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Seas 16 ft @ 9 seconds; we went to the quarry. 65 degrees down to about >60 ft, vis about 20 ft except for in siltstorms. One of which was my doing, but for a good cause, and Al Wells again to the rescue for finding my weight pouch. Thanks so much. I don't know how he does it..... Had a great day with Al, and Art/Tina Greenberg and friend. Last day of our season up here (the quarry closes two weeks from tomorrow for the winter). Hopefully, Art & Tina will clear their time for the Sun Dancer II in Belize, on Memorial Day Weekend, 2008. Would love to dive with you there. ____________________________________________ Regards, Arnold > Seas flat with 10' rollers, <5' viz. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > esg When I first read this, I thought you were making a joke about the winds from Noel and that you assigned cute names to fictional characters such as Manta, Starfish and Loggerhead because you were frustrated that you couldn't go out on any dive boats. I had no idea that you were serious. I'm glad to hear no one was seriously injured. |
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