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thailand

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Veem - 08 Oct 2007 02:13 GMT
any recent information on diving in thailand?

there had been some conflicting reports after the tsunami a couple of years
ago.

if we go, how long is it worth going?  a week?  less?  more?

thanks much
Grumman-581 - 08 Oct 2007 04:13 GMT
> if we go, how long is it worth going?  a week?  less?  more?

Depends upon how much you need to travel (time-wise) to get there...
When we go to Coz, I don't feel it's worth it unless I can stay at
least a week and that is with only a 2 hours flight... Actually, it
takes me longer to get to the airport and clear security than the
flight actually takes... I usually figure a day for travel each way to
anyplace in the US, Canada, or Mexico... Sometimes it's a short day,
sometimes it's a long day... From here to Thailand would be a *very*
long day... I doubt that I would even think about it unless I had at
least 2 weeks for the trip... YMMV, of course...

Signature

"I intend to live forever - so far, so good"

Steve Kramer - 08 Oct 2007 05:26 GMT
>> if we go, how long is it worth going?  a week?  less?  more?
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> long day... I doubt that I would even think about it unless I had at
> least 2 weeks for the trip... YMMV, of course...

And don't let chilly see this, but the diving on Koh Tao really has gone
down the tubes. Actually, the entire island has, comparatively.
(Compared with 10 years ago.) However, if you plane to do a live-aboard
on the Andaman Sea side, (west side of Thailand rather than the Gulf
side) or go south to the islands around Hin Danag or Hin Muang, you can
still find some top notch diving.

Steve Kramer
"PhotoEnvisions" Photography
Chiang Mai, Thailand
http://www.photoenvisions.com
chilly - 08 Oct 2007 06:37 GMT
> And don't let chilly see this,

too late

> but the diving on Koh Tao really has gone
> down the tubes. Actually, the entire island has, comparatively.

What do you mean?  OK, the diving I get . . but what's wrong with the
island?

> (Compared with 10 years ago.) However, if you plane to do a live-aboard
> on the Andaman Sea side, (west side of Thailand rather than the Gulf
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Chiang Mai, Thailand
> http://www.photoenvisions.com
Steve Kramer - 08 Oct 2007 12:06 GMT
>> And don't let chilly see this,
>
> too late

damn....

>> but the diving on Koh Tao really has gone
>> down the tubes. Actually, the entire island has, comparatively.
>
> What do you mean?  OK, the diving I get . . but what's wrong with the
> island?

When I first found Koh Tao, there were no roads, no cars, no
electricity, no phones, no noise, etc. There was one small village, Bann
Mae Hadd, that had about 10-15 small 'shophouse' stores, and a walking
path along the western side of the island. There were only two boats to
the island each day; a night ferry from Chumporn, and a day ferry from
Koh Samui. There was only one old rickety pier. Along the beach every
few hundred meters there was another bungalow colony,
http://www.seatraveler.com/KohTaoOld1.jpg
right on the beach with all the bungalows made from bamboo and thatch.
The beach was absolutely clean of man-made garbage, and what floatsom
was washed up overnight was raked up by 6am. I mean the beach was CLEAN.
http://www.seatraveler.com/KohTaoOld2.jpg
During the day you might see a total of 6-10 people laying in the sun.
This for a space of a few kilometers. Remember, the entire island is
only 8 kilometers long and three wide.
The entire middle of the island was still all coconut palms. Small
walking paths, but nothing you could drive on. If you wanted some
exercise, you could hike over the top of the island to the other side,
where there were a few isolated bungalows for rent. People only came
there to dive, because the diving was so good. There was nothing else to
do except for the odd pickup vollyball game. No music at night, (no
electricity) only one bar on the island, so people spent time chatting
together in the bungalow restaurants, with lighting provided by kerosene
hurricane lamps at night, the musice provided by the surf washing up on
the beach, and diving or snorkeling by day. The island was empty.
Peaceful, (not even a cop on the island) quiet, with very good diving.
The most expensive beachfront bungalow with bath cost about $3 USD. But
then, you couldn't find a bungalow more than 50 meters from the beach
anyway. Further in than that was nothing but coconut palms. An 'A-Frame'
on the beach, with 3-4 mattresses cost 50 cents. Picture in your mind,
the movie "The Beach."  After all, Koh Tao is the only small island from
which you can reach Koh Phangan by little outboard motorboat.... (The
movie was actually shot on the other side of Thailand, around Koh Phi
Phi) THAT'S what it was like back then.

Today.... there are three full sized villages, plenty of paved roads,
lots of cement buildings, several of the 'resorts' have swimming pools,
there are three franchised 7-Elevens, and a car rental agency. And about
10 times a day you can see this:
http://www.seatraveler.com/KohTaoCrowds.jpg
Bamboo has given way to cinder block and cement. Not only are there
plenty of bars in each village, the girls from Patpong have come to earn
their keep, and the crime rate is soaring. Plenty of cops now. They need
them to ticket the speeders. (Remember, this island is only 8K x 3K) The
illegal fishing has reduced the fish density to almost nil, the reefs
are covered with broken nets from their drag lines,
http://www.seatraveler.com/net.jpg  Best have a good sharp knife if you
plane to do any swim-throughs...

While the economy of the island is increasing, which is a good thing for
the locals, so are all the ills of civilization. Many of my long time
friends there wish we hadn't 'discovered' Koh Tao. Time to stick to
diving in Sangalaki....  http://www.seatraveler.com/images/ISLAND1.jpg
http://www.seatraveler.com/Tripsang.htm

Steve Kramer
"PhotoEnvisions" Photography
Chiang Mai, Thailand
http://www.photoenvisions.com
wiseoldgentleman@gmail.com - 08 Oct 2007 14:35 GMT
> >> And don't let chilly see this,
>
[quoted text clipped - 61 lines]
> "PhotoEnvisions" Photography
> Chiang Mai, Thailandhttp://www.photoenvisions.com

Say Hey Stevie:

Thats's what is known as 'sign of the times'

5555 Yee-Haw !!
wiseoldgentleman@gmail.com - 08 Oct 2007 14:51 GMT
> While the economy of the island is increasing, which is a good thing for
> the locals, so are all the ills of civilization. Many of my long time
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> "PhotoEnvisions" Photography
> Chiang Mai, Thailandhttp://www.photoenvisions.com

Say Hey Stevie:

In retrospect take a look at Chiang Mai after you had called it, "A
Very Small Town" You have a way of dramatizing your posts. Your just
not in touch with reality pal.

5555 Yee-Haw !!
Veem - 08 Oct 2007 17:15 GMT
Thanks so much for the great info.  We did go to Bangkok last year, with a
side trip to Chiang Mai and Ho Chi Minh city, but did not dive.  We were
sort of thinking of going back to dive and a trip on down to Bali.  We are
from AZ, so it would need to be 2-3 weeks, but sounds like unless we want to
do livaboard, the diving is not as good as it was before the Big Wave.
Maybe we should do Bali and Tahiti.

> any recent information on diving in thailand?
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> thanks much
Greg Mossman - 08 Oct 2007 17:43 GMT
> Thanks so much for the great info.  We did go to Bangkok last year, with a
> side trip to Chiang Mai and Ho Chi Minh city, but did not dive.  We were
> sort of thinking of going back to dive and a trip on down to Bali.  We are
> from AZ, so it would need to be 2-3 weeks, but sounds like unless we want to
> do livaboard, the diving is not as good as it was before the Big Wave.
> Maybe we should do Bali and Tahiti.

Why bother with overpriced and overfished Tahiti?  Spend the 2-3 weeks
traveling around eastern Indonesia if you want unbeatable diving.
Veem - 08 Oct 2007 18:04 GMT
Really, wow, thanks!

>> Thanks so much for the great info.  We did go to Bangkok last year, with
>> a
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Why bother with overpriced and overfished Tahiti?  Spend the 2-3 weeks
> traveling around eastern Indonesia if you want unbeatable diving.
Greg Mossman - 08 Oct 2007 18:48 GMT
> Really, wow, thanks!

I'll expand that a bit:

Tahiti is very pretty topside, to be sure.  Plenty of things to see
and do.  It's similar to Hawaii, except French and a tad less
developed.  Like Hawaii, it's lacking in certain fish species and soft
corals because of its remoteness.  Like Hawaii, there are sky-high
prices, great sashimi, and Mormons.  Unlike Hawaii, all the beaches
are topless.

Rangiroa has some impressive currents and potentially more white-tips
than you'll see anywhere else including Cocos, but there's not much
else other than big animal stuff to impress a diver.

In Indonesia, there are still plenty of sites to see big animals.  I
saw quite a few sharks during my Bali-Komodo run, was buzzed by a
manta at two different sites, and experienced a great school of
bumphead parrotfish off Lombok.  We were even supposed to do a mola
mola dive off Bali but that fell through.  The difference is that you
also get a huge species diversity, including some bizarre creatures
found nowhere else on the planet, because all the worlds' fishies
originated from that area back somewhere in the early chapters of
Genesis.  Also you get soft corals in colors that even God couldn't
have designed - they must have been put there by aliens.  It's quite
unbelievable.

That said, the downsides are malaria, political insecurity, and
personally I don't like Indonesian food as much as Thai or French-
Polynesian, but there are some world-class resorts and liveaboards
there, it's really not that unsafe, and malaria is 99% preventable if
you plan ahead and stick to your plan.  And I did get a bit addicted
to waking up to mie goreng (fried noodles) with an egg and a helping
dollop of sambal every morning.  My next visit there, I'll try
Wakatobi or one of the North Sulawesi liveaboards, or maybe a
liveaboard to Raja Ampat.  It's all good.

I don't know of any dedicated dive resorts in Tahiti, though the Kia
Ora in Rangiroa did have a nice dive shop on the premises.  Most of
the hotels and dive shops run diving the European way, i.e. one tank
at a time.  There are at least a couple shops that do 2-tank trips,
but I believe the Tahiti Aggressor was the one and only really dive-
dedicated operation and they left a few months ago for better climes.

I wasn't that impressed with Thailand and I did do the preferred
trip:  a liveaboard up to the Burma Banks, and including sites along
the way in the Andaman Sea.  We missed diving much of the Similans
because of the tsunami, but with all the boats that dive there, I
can't believe they're still in such great shape.  On that trip,
besides the tsunami, we also experienced a post-dynamite night dive
that was the most depressing dive I've ever done.  Again, like Tahiti,
there are great land-based attractions (though worlds apart from
Tahiti), but the diving is just something you do while you're there,
not a real reason to go there.

If you're up for experiencing a new and interesting part of the world
and doing a few dives along the way, then Tahiti or Thailand are both
great destinations worth traveling to.  But if you're mainly
interested in a mind-blowing dive trip, I'd strongly suggest Indonesia.
Veem - 08 Oct 2007 19:59 GMT
Well you sold me on Indonesia. We're not especially into food (if we plan on
diving), because often great food and great diving don't go together.  The
one exception was when we went to Yap and Palau in Feb.  In Palau, there is
an Indian restaurant, The Taj, which  was wonderful.

Thanks again for all the helpful info.

>> Really, wow, thanks!
>
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
> great destinations worth traveling to.  But if you're mainly
> interested in a mind-blowing dive trip, I'd strongly suggest Indonesia.
Grumman-581 - 08 Oct 2007 20:04 GMT
> Well you sold me on Indonesia. We're not especially into food (if we plan on
> diving), because often great food and great diving don't go together.  The
> one exception was when we went to Yap and Palau in Feb.  In Palau, there is
> an Indian restaurant, The Taj, which  was wonderful.

Different tastes, I guess... I've never been one to associate "great
food" with Indian cuisine... Probably because I don't have much of a
taste for curry...

Signature

"EARTH FIRST! We'll strip-mine the other planets later"

Dan Bracuk - 09 Oct 2007 00:21 GMT
"Veem" <ginmill01@cox.net> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in:

:Well you sold me on Indonesia. We're not especially into food (if we plan on
:diving), because often great food and great diving don't go together.  The
:one exception was when we went to Yap and Palau in Feb.  In Palau, there is
:an Indian restaurant, The Taj, which  was wonderful.

Another exception is Little Cayman Beach Resort.

Dan Bracuk
Never use a big word when a diminutive one will do.
mag3 - 09 Oct 2007 00:52 GMT
>> Really, wow, thanks!
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>prices, great sashimi, and Mormons.  Unlike Hawaii, all the beaches
>are topless.

Not all of them.... Not Bora Bora.... I saw no topless people whatsoever...  

Not Moorea either that I could see. And in the Sheraton Moorea resort, females
had to wear a saroong everywhere except the pool area itself.

>I don't know of any dedicated dive resorts in Tahiti

        http://www.topdive.com/

It's where I stayed. It's where I got both OW and Rescue.

____________________________________________
Regards,

Arnold
Greg Mossman - 09 Oct 2007 01:08 GMT
> >Tahiti is very pretty topside, to be sure.  Plenty of things to see
> >and do.  It's similar to Hawaii, except French and a tad less
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Not Moorea either that I could see. And in the Sheraton Moorea resort, females
> had to wear a saroong everywhere except the pool area itself.

How odd.  I went in the off-season and still saw plenty of
toplessness, though it's supposed to be peak season in July and August
when all the French arrive en-masse.

> >I don't know of any dedicated dive resorts in Tahiti
>
>                http://www.topdive.com/
>
> It's where I stayed. It's where I got both OW and Rescue.

Hmm.  According to the website, "The Bora Bora Dive resort is the one
and only dive resort in French Polynesia." so I was pretty close.

What makes it a dedicated dive resort other than the name and the fact
that there's a dive shop on the premises?  I didn't even see any
mention of dive packages on the hotel's rates page.
mag3 - 09 Oct 2007 02:42 GMT
>> >Tahiti is very pretty topside, to be sure.  Plenty of things to see
>> >and do.  It's similar to Hawaii, except French and a tad less
>> >developed.  Like Hawaii, it's lacking in certain fish species and soft
>> >corals because of its remoteness.  Like Hawaii, there are sky-high
>> >prices, great sashimi, and Mormons.

And 7th day Adventists.  And Jehovah's Witnesses.  But there not even the big
guys.  The largest church (the one you see on my website in the center of Vaitape,
Bora Bora with the tall steeple) believe it or not is the "Ebenezer Baptist" church.

>>Unlike Hawaii, all the beaches
>> >are topless.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>toplessness, though it's supposed to be peak season in July and August
>when all the French arrive en-masse.

Not that many French tourists on Bora Bora. It's too expensive. It's mostly Japanese
and they skew the overall "expense" curve for everyone else as they're willing to pay
a lot more for things and the locals milk it for all they can get, pricing everyone else
out in the process.  I usually go in late August - which is, actually, in the middle of
Winter - Temps in the mid 70's as opposed to the low to upper 80's / low 90's in the
"summer" months of Jan/Feb.. There is also less percipitation in August.  

>> >I don't know of any dedicated dive resorts in Tahiti
>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>that there's a dive shop on the premises?  I didn't even see any
>mention of dive packages on the hotel's rates page.

It's their main source of revenue - the diving operation, (and the restaurant).

The "resort" part of it is small - only 9 units 3 "overwater". And in August, they're
hardly occupied. Only divers stay there. It's cheep enough, relatively speaking (on
the order of $450.00 US per night as opposed to almost tripple that for the more
"established" hotels on the island and motus. But the accomodations are not as
luxurious as the Sheraton or similar class hotels. No individual TV in the rooms.
There is a telephone but no internet.  There is A/C. The overwater bungalows
are very spacious though. I usually stay in the middle one.

To compensate for this, the dive shop takes divers from the other hotels that don't
have an affiliated dive shop, and they have dive ops on other islands where they
don't have hotels etc (Moorea, Rangiroa, Fakarava, and Tahiti Island itself).  Topdive
is more like a "dive shop" that happens to have a hotel associated with it, not the
reverse. And a PADI 5* dive center at that.

The restaurant is 5* also, and people come to eat there from other hotels as well. It's
expensive, but it's excellent. Dinner Entrees are in the $50-68 range (just the entree).
But it's worth every penny.  

They used to have diving rates on the website. IIRC a "10-Pak" (5 days of 2 tank
diving) was around US$100.00 per day.  That's cheep for Bora Bora. Dives are
all DM led lasting usually 45 min. each. Nitrox is free. The morning boat trip is the
2 tank trip. There is an "afternoon" trip but it's one tank usually to Toopua, the
"entry level" lagoon area (20-30fsw at most)  where they take tourists and people
going for their OW. Last I was there, I got both a private PADI "Rescue Diver" course
and a 10-Pak, for just about $900.00.

The ops may be slightly different on the other islands, but I've only done Bora Bora.

____________________________________________
Regards,

Arnold

Visit my Travel Photo Website:   http://www.mag3.biz/travel_photos/home_page.html

Absolutely 100% SPAM free!!!! HONEST!!! :-)
steve@seatraveler.com - 09 Oct 2007 09:49 GMT
> Thanks so much for the great info.  We did go to Bangkok last year, with a
> side trip to Chiang Mai and Ho Chi Minh city, but did not dive.  We were
> sort of thinking of going back to dive and a trip on down to Bali.  We are
> from AZ, so it would need to be 2-3 weeks, but sounds like unless we want to
> do livaboard, the diving is not as good as it was before the Big Wave.
> Maybe we should do Bali and Tahiti.

Bali is lovely, http://www.seatraveler.com/photos5.htm  and the diving
around Menjangan Island is all big wall drift dives. Very relaxing but
not a great deal of variety. If you go to Bali, go there to see Bali
and do 'some' diving, rather than go there to dive and do 'some
sightseeing.' If you like good food, go to the small restaurants where
the Balinese eat. Do NOT eat at the large beautiful tourist
restaurants. The food will taste like your pillow. But the local foods
for the local folk are fantastic and a bit spicy, with great variety.
Enjoy a good vacation there. A little bit of everything.

Steve Kramer
"PhotoEnvisions" Photography
Chiang Mai, Thailand
http://www.photoenvisions.com
 
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