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Attacking shark instead of running from it to survive?

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zeez - 13 Aug 2007 09:54 GMT
http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=267217&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mod
e=thread&pid=20200689#20201743


  Sharks bite at stuff, it's what sharks do, they are pretty much
giant eating machines living in the ocean.

Spoken like a true Jaws watcher who's never actually seen a shark in
real life. I have, and I can tell you that it's *damn* hard to get
anywhere near them, as they are far more afraid of you than you are of
them.

You're also wrong about shark vision, many sharks have excellent
vision. They are also quite intelligent, research (that I can't be
bothered finding links on) has demonstrating sharks solving problems
that were previously thought to be beyond them. They're not exactly
going to be April fooling Flipper, but they aren't the mindless ocean
dwelling mulchers that you seem to think they are.

Sharks also almost uniformly go for dead or dying fish. They are
predators of opportunity. Only the great white is a habitual predator,
and even then it will not attack prey that it feels can fight back. So
in short, if you have a tiger, bull or bronze whaler shark circling
you and eying you the way you'd eye a McDonalds burger (although I
think the average human would be healthier than McDonals), swimming
confidently towards it would likely scare it off. If not, a punch in
the nose or gills is almost certain to do so. I'm not saying it's
foolproof, but its better than scrambling to the surface like a
panicked seal. If you have a great white circling you, looking hungry,
the same tactic would work, only pray first. Jokes aside, sharks of
any species are hard to approach. If you're diving and you see one,
you're lucky, not unlucky. They can sense you well outside visible
range, and they know you're not food and will avoid you before you
even knew they were there. I really wish I saw more sharks on the
dives I've done, and plan on going shark watching more. They truly are
beautiful creatures.

We don't look anything like food they're used to, we smell funny, give
off all kinds of weird electrical signals with all that metal gear we
carry and we certainly don't taste good, which is why most attack
victims survive the first exploratory nibble, as the shark wrinkles
its nose, thinking "eew, human" and goes off to find a tasty seal. If
the shark wanted to eat the surfer, we wouldn't be yelling "jeez that
surfer got attacked!", we'd be mumbling "I coulda sworn there was a
surfer there a minute ago".

Well yes, that is right, you do not WANT to be anywhere near his yaws.
But to be honest, if a shark is attacking you, then that is where you
WILL be. Any attempt at escape will result in you being surely eaten,
with only one chance of survival - ram the shark, hit it's nose, eyes,
whatnot. Sharks are stupid - they are used to things escaping but will
get confused at things actually fighting back.

It's that simple - sometime you have to overcome your fears and do the
seemingly dangerous just to get better odds at surviving.
Grumman-581 - 13 Aug 2007 10:11 GMT
> Well yes, that is right, you do not WANT to be anywhere near his yaws.
> But to be honest, if a shark is attacking you, then that is where you
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> It's that simple - sometime you have to overcome your fears and do the
> seemingly dangerous just to get better odds at surviving.

Or you can just shoot the bastard for coming near *your* space...
Works for me...
Dennis (Icarus) - 13 Aug 2007 12:58 GMT
> > Well yes, that is right, you do not WANT to be anywhere near his yaws.
> > But to be honest, if a shark is attacking you, then that is where you
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Or you can just shoot the bastard for coming near *your* space...
> Works for me...

And whats cool about that approach is that its applicable to far more
situations - not just sharks.

Signature

Dennis

"For instance, on planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more
intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much - the wheel, New
York, wars and so on, while all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in
the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always
believed that they were more intelligent than man, for precisely the same
reasons."
--Douglas Adams, The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, chapter 23.

Grumman-581 - 13 Aug 2007 20:47 GMT
On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 06:59:36 -0600, "Dennis \(Icarus\)"
<nojunkmail@ever.invalid> wrote:

> And whats cool about that approach is that its applicable to far more
> situations - not just sharks.

Yep... That way you don't have to treat sharks as a special case...
One solution fits all situations...
Latrodectus - 13 Aug 2007 11:06 GMT
> http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=267217&threshold=1&commen...
>
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
> It's that simple - sometime you have to overcome your fears and do the
> seemingly dangerous just to get better odds at surviving.

I wasn't expecting to see this on alt.politics, but, what the hell,
why not.  ;)
 I used to dive in the Pacific off the Republic of the Philippines
and I've also been in Hawaii.  Used to live in both places.  I've seen
sharks.   I appreciate the points you made but many types of sharks
are still unpredictable.  Most of the time they are at best curious
but when they make the error of thinking we are a seal or a turtle
then we are in some trouble.
 The best thing to do, if your nerves can stand it, is to try to
fight it off and hit its eyes or gills or whatever and make a fuss.
Between that and the fact that you smell funny, there's a reasonable
chance it will say "screw this" and go away.  That's better than
trying to swim away, which we can't do.  Even with rocket fins, humans
are poor swimmers.
 One of my more interesting and nerve wracking experiences was in
Hawaii.  I was at Pearl Harbor for Memorial Day or something like
that, walking right by the edge of the docks where the ships were.
Right next to the water, I'm walking, and I notice this movement to my
left and this huge shark was swimming by.  I just froze inside, I had
that primal fear that I imagine rabbits get when they see a cat.  I
kept walking and just watched it, in awe.  I calmed down in about 45
seconds after the adrenaline had passed.  It's not as if it was after
me, I just had that natural reaction.
 Sharks are amazing creatures and it's a shame people are so willing
to kill them.  Whenever somebody gets munched, the locals go out and
start killing them, as if the sharks had no right to be in the ocean.
I wish people would learn more about marine life and not see the beach
as an amusement park.  It is the threshold to a very significant
biosphere filled with creatures that might see them as food.
 Another danger in the Philippines was the Textile Cone, but I'll
save that for another post.
bo_dacious@mactan.org - 14 Aug 2007 06:56 GMT
>Another danger in the Philippines was the Textile Cone, but I'll
>save that for another post.

Actually the greatest danger in the PI is the dreaded STD! A large
number being concentrated around the sand-bars of Angeles City.
http://tiny.pl/51hk
dechucka - 14 Aug 2007 14:10 GMT
>>Another danger in the Philippines was the Textile Cone, but I'll
>>save that for another post.
>
> Actually the greatest danger in the PI is the dreaded STD! A large
> number being concentrated around the sand-bars of Angeles City.
> http://tiny.pl/51hk

I find the 7mm rubber suit makes me safe
dechucka - 14 Aug 2007 14:11 GMT
>>>Another danger in the Philippines was the Textile Cone, but I'll
>>>save that for another post.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> I find the 7mm rubber suit makes me safe

although they do want to charge me more when I approach them wearing it
bo_dacious@mactan.org - 15 Aug 2007 01:27 GMT
>>>>Another danger in the Philippines was the Textile Cone, but I'll
>>>>save that for another post.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>although they do want to charge me more when I approach them wearing it

Check out this page for hints on dealing with that:
http://www.zianet.com/tedmorris/dg/beer.html
Latrodectus - 16 Aug 2007 08:21 GMT
On Aug 13, 11:56 pm, bo_daci...@mactan.org wrote:

> >Another danger in the Philippines was the Textile Cone, but I'll
> >save that for another post.
>
> Actually the greatest danger in the PI is the dreaded STD! A large
> number being concentrated around the sand-bars of Angeles City.http://tiny.pl/51hk

Funny.  I am also directly experienced with that threat as well.
Luckily, I was not attacked by the dreaded STD creatures.
bo_dacious@mactan.org - 18 Aug 2007 07:43 GMT
>On Aug 13, 11:56 pm, bo_daci...@mactan.org wrote:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>> Actually the greatest danger in the PI is the dreaded STD! A large
>> number being concentrated around the sand-bars of Angeles City.

>Funny.  I am also directly experienced with that threat as well.
>Luckily, I was not attacked by the dreaded STD creatures.

They seem to be most prevalent where there are large numbers of Pesos.
I found R&R there could be almost as hazardous to ones health as 'Nam
(yeah, I'm that old.)

This is an interesting link with info about the species
http://www.angelescity.com/photos.html
Latrodectus - 19 Aug 2007 21:52 GMT
On Aug 18, 12:43 am, bo_daci...@mactan.org wrote:

> >On Aug 13, 11:56 pm, bo_daci...@mactan.org wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> This is an interesting link with info about the specieshttp://www.angelescity.com/photos.html

Wow, those photos bring back some memories of Manila.  Thank God for
the Philippines.  And for condoms.
Grumman-581 - 19 Aug 2007 22:25 GMT
> Wow, those photos bring back some memories of Manila.  Thank God for
> the Philippines.  And for condoms.

Yeah, the steel-belted radial type...

Ahhh... The good old days... Back when everything that you could
possibly catch was curable by pennicilin... I don't think it would be
as fun these days being a Sailor or Marine hitting port...
Rick Simms - 20 Aug 2007 16:34 GMT
>> Wow, those photos bring back some memories of Manila.  Thank God for
>> the Philippines.  And for condoms.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>possibly catch was curable by pennicilin... I don't think it would be
>as fun these days being a Sailor or Marine hitting port...

It was mostly curable but still dependent on how many treatments one
case took to get it cleared up. They were getting some
penicillin-resistant strains in 1972.

Rick Simms
Rick Simms - 20 Aug 2007 16:20 GMT
>>On Aug 13, 11:56 pm, bo_daci...@mactan.org wrote:
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>This is an interesting link with info about the species
>http://www.angelescity.com/photos.html

Does that ever bring back memories.

Rick Simms
Patriot Games - 13 Aug 2007 15:07 GMT
> http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=267217&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mod
e=thread&pid=20200689#20201743

>   Sharks bite at stuff, it's what sharks do, they are pretty much
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> anywhere near them, as they are far more afraid of you than you are of
> them.

I've been on a couple of dozen shark dives and only three were organized and
intentional.

Sharks have NO FEAR of humans.  None, zip, nada, zilch.  Sharks have
ultimate self-confidence.

You don't get to be the Numero-Uno for 600 million years with a lack of
self-confidence.

> Sharks also almost uniformly go for dead or dying fish. They are
> predators of opportunity. Only the great white is a habitual predator,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> think the average human would be healthier than McDonals), swimming
> confidently towards it would likely scare it off.

That's not scaring it off.  It merely demonstrates to the shark that YOU
aren't ready to be a meal, yet.

Bull sharks and Makos don't respond like that.  Makos are the only shark
that will actually eat humans. Bull sharks are the only shark that
consistently f.ck up people.  Great White sharks only seem to consistently
f.ck up people because their one test bite is so systemically overwhelming.

> If not, a punch in the nose or gills is almost certain to do so.

Its the ONLY maneuver you can do but its also extremely risky.

> I'm not saying it's
> foolproof, but its better than scrambling to the surface like a
> panicked seal.

If you scramble away you're probably gonna get bit.

> If you have a great white circling you, looking hungry,
> the same tactic would work, only pray first.

If the pectoral fins are mostly horizontal and/or the shark is making
slightly left-right jerky head movements you ARE about to be sampled.

> I really wish I saw more sharks on the
> dives I've done, and plan on going shark watching more. They truly are
> beautiful creatures.

They are as close to perfection as evolution can come up with and literally
beyond our ability to fully understand (so far).
LEO - 14 Aug 2007 07:02 GMT
>They are as close to perfection as evolution can come up with

...and they immediately drop you to the No. 2 slot in the food chain
when you're in ocean water above your knees.
Patriot Games - 14 Aug 2007 15:45 GMT
>>They are as close to perfection as evolution can come up with
> ...and they immediately drop you to the No. 2 slot in the food chain
> when you're in ocean water above your knees.

Its a fact!
Lee Bell - 14 Aug 2007 16:09 GMT
>>>They are as close to perfection as evolution can come up with
>> ...and they immediately drop you to the No. 2 slot in the food chain
>> when you're in ocean water above your knees.

> Its a fact!

Perfection only if left alone. We're going a fine job of driving them toward
extinction.

You may be number 2 in the food chain, but I'm still competing for number
one. A powerhead or bangstick, one on one, will make short work of pretty
much any shark.

Lee
chilly - 15 Aug 2007 07:53 GMT
> >>They are as close to perfection as evolution can come up with
> > ...and they immediately drop you to the No. 2 slot in the food chain
> > when you're in ocean water above your knees.
>
> Its a fact!

The shark that was coming for me off Rarotonga, turned and sped off at the
sound of air being vented from my BCD.
Patriot Games - 15 Aug 2007 14:03 GMT
>> >>They are as close to perfection as evolution can come up with
>> > ...and they immediately drop you to the No. 2 slot in the food chain
>> > when you're in ocean water above your knees.
>> Its a fact!
> The shark that was coming for me off Rarotonga, turned and sped off at the
> sound of air being vented from my BCD.

Shark's Point of View:  It farted.  Leave now.  Check back later.
Matthias Voss - 15 Aug 2007 15:17 GMT
>>> >>They are as close to perfection as evolution can come up with
>>> > ...and they immediately drop you to the No. 2 slot in the food chain
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Shark's Point of View:  It farted.  Leave now.  Check back later.

Idiot.
kT - 13 Aug 2007 15:59 GMT
> http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=267217&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mod
e=thread&pid=20200689#20201743

>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> anywhere near them, as they are far more afraid of you than you are of
> them.

First of all, nice of you to admit you don't know anything about sharks.

I have pet sharks. (Nurse sharks). You can get as near them as you want,
as long as they are well fed. Everyone thinks nurse sharks are docile
and harmless, but I can tell you from experience that nothing is more
nasty and temperamental, and more oblivious to the word 'no', than a
hungry nurse shark. Yes, by all means, get out of the water.

As far as the men in the grey suits go (the real sharks), you can get by
with swimming along with them, you just have to keep a good eye on them,
and don't present any fish to them. But if they are hungry, do get out.

Barracudas are a whole different story. Smart, territorial, and
perpetually hungry. The schools of smaller ones are fairly harmless, but
the big old, almost ready to die barracudas, are a real pain in the a.s.
They pass their mean genes onto their offspring, too. Evil Bart. Son of
Bart. Grandson of Bart. All well known individuals in my territory.

The worst fish I ever encountered was the 'Frankenfish', a medium sized
barracuda that apparently was almost bit in half as a young fish, still
slightly bent but with extreme nerve damage repaired somewhat over time,
and apparently it learned to survive by keeping it's mouth wide open and
attacking anything that moves. Actually I think the mouth closing nerves
were severed. One really bad fish. However, I beat the sh.t out of it,
and it finally went off chasing something else for dinner. I still see
him around occasionally, but I try not to stare at cripples and retards.

It's getting harder and harder to get a square meal out of those waters.

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GWB - 14 Aug 2007 04:07 GMT
I'm just glad triggerfish don't get to be 100 pounds. <BG>
Lee Bell - 14 Aug 2007 12:18 GMT
> I'm just glad triggerfish don't get to be 100 pounds. <BG>

I'm glad Damsel fish don't get to be 1 pound.

Lee
George Cathcart - 15 Aug 2007 05:17 GMT
> > I'm just glad triggerfish don't get to be 100 pounds. <BG>
>
> I'm glad Damsel fish don't get to be 1 pound.
>
> Lee

If damselfish got as big as sharks there would be no such thing as
scuba diving...
chilly - 15 Aug 2007 07:53 GMT
> > > I'm just glad triggerfish don't get to be 100 pounds. <BG>
> >
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> If damselfish got as big as sharks there would be no such thing as
> scuba diving...

LOL with both of you.
chilly - 15 Aug 2007 07:49 GMT
> I'm just glad triggerfish don't get to be 100 pounds. <BG>

They are scary enough at whatever weight they get to be.
Al Key - 14 Aug 2007 05:27 GMT
>They are also quite intelligent, research (that I can't be
>bothered finding links on) has demonstrating sharks solving problems
>that were previously thought to be beyond them.

>Sharks are stupid - they are used to things escaping but will
>get confused at things actually fighting back.

OK, which is it?
Baldin Lee Pramer - 15 Aug 2007 15:27 GMT
> http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=267217&threshold=1&commen...

> Well yes, that is right, you do not WANT to be anywhere near his yaws.
> But to be honest, if a shark is attacking you, then that is where you
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> It's that simple - sometime you have to overcome your fears and do the
> seemingly dangerous just to get better odds at surviving.

Good unstated analogy for our fight with militant Islamists.

BLP
Dennis M - 18 Aug 2007 13:41 GMT
>> http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=267217&threshold=1&commen...
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
>Good unstated analogy for our fight with militant Islamists.

Here's another good analogy -- George Bush has taken the shark fight to
Lake Tahoe instead of the ocean beaches.
kryppy@gmail.com - 18 Aug 2007 16:01 GMT
No such thing as a shark attack. Now if I am in my shower and a shark
comes and taps me on the shoulder and bites my arm off, that is a
shark attack.

If I am sitting in my living room and a great white walks in and gets
all up in front of my TV and pisses on my floor, their is going to be
a human attack. When I do that it in his living room, I always expect
the same in return. ;)
Scotius (Ponti Fickatur) - 03 Sep 2007 22:47 GMT
>http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=267217&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mod
e=thread&pid=20200689#20201743

>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>anywhere near them, as they are far more afraid of you than you are of
>them.

    That's no doubt true, as they generally only attack people
flailing about in the water like a wounded fish. It's also been noted
by people who know that they are more likely to attack people on
surfboards because while paddling they look a lot like certain marine
mammals from the underside.

>You're also wrong about shark vision, many sharks have excellent
>vision. They are also quite intelligent, research (that I can't be
>bothered finding links on) has demonstrating sharks solving problems
>that were previously thought to be beyond them. They're not exactly
>going to be April fooling Flipper, but they aren't the mindless ocean
>dwelling mulchers that you seem to think they are.

    It's been said that when a shark bites a human, they often
have mistaken it, and won't bite again because they "don't like" us,
at least not as a meal. That rule may be broken occassionally, but it
generally holds I think, at least from what I've read.

>Sharks also almost uniformly go for dead or dying fish. They are
>predators of opportunity. Only the great white is a habitual predator,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>think the average human would be healthier than McDonals), swimming
>confidently towards it would likely scare it off.

    I read that swimming toward a shark most often will cause it
to veer off.

>If not, a punch in
>the nose or gills is almost certain to do so. I'm not saying it's
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>It's that simple - sometime you have to overcome your fears and do the
>seemingly dangerous just to get better odds at surviving.
Rich Greenberg - 04 Sep 2007 00:29 GMT
Speaking of sharks, I just came across a funny vidio involving sharks.

See:  http://www.thepostmanscorner.net/movies347.wmv

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