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Scuba Forum / General / July 2007

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Military Channel Diving at Pearl Harbor

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Bill Roberto - 20 Jul 2007 14:49 GMT
Group,

Being new to diving, everything diving related gets my attention. The
military channel had their crew dive to 170 ft. to check out one of the
American ships sunk. I noticed all the divers wearing full masks. They
looked pretty cool. Anybody ever use one?
Kula - 20 Jul 2007 19:42 GMT
> Group,
>
> Being new to diving, everything diving related gets my attention. The
> military channel had their crew dive to 170 ft. to check out one of the
> American ships sunk. I noticed all the divers wearing full masks. They
> looked pretty cool. Anybody ever use one?

I'm a little surprised that you could go to 170' in Pearl Harbor.

kula
Scott - 20 Jul 2007 19:53 GMT
> > Group,
> >
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> I'm a little surprised that you could go to 170' in Pearl Harbor.

Yeah, that didn't make a lot of sense to me either.

Perhaps you can do a little research and enlighten us.
Greg Mossman - 20 Jul 2007 20:24 GMT
> > > Group,
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Perhaps you can do a little research and enlighten us.

from http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/pearl_harbor.htm

The entrance channel is marked by lighted and unlighted buoys and a
lighted range. With an approximate width of 350 yd, the channel has an
initial project depth of 49.9 ft (15.2 m) near the center and 45 ft
(13.7 m) on either side of the central 100 yd wide main channel. The
central channel project depth decreases to 45 ft (13.7 m)
approximately one nmi north of the channel entrance. The project
depths on either side of the central channel decrease to 40 ft (12.2
m) at the same location. The same depths are maintained in the Main
Channel to a point adjacent to Dry Docks 1 and 2. Channel depths
within Pearl Harbor vary by location, and should be verified with the
Pearl Harbor Port Operations Office.

Pearl Harbor is fan shaped with an entrance width of 400 yd (366 m).
Extending inland some 5 nmi, the main basin is divided by two
peninsulas and an island into four smaller basins: West Loch, Middle
Loch, East Loch, and Southeast Loch. Most of Pearl Harbor's facilities
are located on East Loch and Southeast Loch. Middle Loch is used
primarily as a Reserve Fleet Anchorage. The Naval Magazine maintains
berths at the approximate mid-point of West Loch, but the upper half
of the loch is too shallow for deep draft vessels. Three additional,
smaller lochs, Quarry Loch, Merry Loch and Magazine Loch, are located
adjacent to Southeast Loch.

Due to lack of swinging room, there is only one anchorage within the
confines of Pearl Harbor. It is an explosives anchorage located north
of Ford Island in East Loch. Harbor pilots state that if a large
vessel assigned to the anchorage requires more swinging room than the
approximate 175 yd radius the anchorage allows, the anchorage is
shifted to a position 200 to 300 yd southwest of the charted position.
Anchorage is available outside Pearl Harbor in 60 ft (18.3 m) of water
adjacent to the "Reef Runway" of Honolulu International Airport.

The Fleet Guide for Pearl Harbor contains a listing of 99 berths
inside the main channel entrance. Of those, 29 are assigned to the
Naval Station, 32 to the Naval Shipyard, 19 to the Naval Supply
Center, 14 to the Submarine Base, and five in West Loch to Naval
Magazine. Specific data for each berth, such as berth length and
alongside depth can be found in the Fleet Guide for Pearl Harbor. One
significant change in the 1994 berth listing applies to Berth F5 just
southeast of the USS Arizona Memorial monument on Ford Island. It was
rebuilt and lengthened to 1,000 ft to accommodate the planned berthing
of battleships at Pearl Harbor. The South Channel has been dredged to
depths of 45 ft over much of the area between Ten Ten Dock and the USS
Arizona Memorial to provide adequate clearance and turning room for
the deep-drafted battleships. Because all of the battleships in the US
Navy inventory are now decommissioned, the pier is now designated for
other uses.
Scott - 20 Jul 2007 20:38 GMT
> > > > Group,
> >
[quoted text clipped - 58 lines]
> Navy inventory are now decommissioned, the pier is now designated for
> other uses.

Thanks.

I don't know where I got it from, but I knew it wasn't 170 feet deep, I just
didn't want to act like I did know.

You know how us machinists and gun-nuts hate being wrong.
Bill Roberto - 21 Jul 2007 02:38 GMT
>>> "Kula" <eeolson(thapt spam eaters)hawaii.rr.com> wrote in
> messagenews:46a10244$0$31282$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

> I don't know where I got it from, but I knew it wasn't 170 feet deep, I just
> didn't want to act like I did know.
>
> You know how us machinists and gun-nuts hate being wrong.

Small world. I am a machinist too. Because of that once I realize I made
a mistake I acknowledge it immediately as well as learn from it.
Scott - 21 Jul 2007 05:30 GMT
> Small world.

Little, blue marble.

>I am a machinist too. Because of that once I realize I made
> a mistake I acknowledge it immediately as well as learn from it.

Amen.

Besides, you haven't lived until  you scrap a $40,000 die shoe.
Bill Roberto - 21 Jul 2007 15:42 GMT
>> Small world.
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Besides, you haven't lived until  you scrap a $40,000 die shoe.

The pressure I enjoy is setting up the first part on a $1/4 mil+ machine
with the people that just bought it looking over my shoulder.
Scott - 21 Jul 2007 18:23 GMT
> The pressure I enjoy is setting up the first part on a $1/4 mil+ machine
> with the people that just bought it looking over my shoulder.

"Watch this..."
Bill Roberto - 21 Jul 2007 19:13 GMT
>> The pressure I enjoy is setting up the first part on a $1/4 mil+ machine
>> with the people that just bought it looking over my shoulder.
>
> "Watch this..."

The high pucker factor makes it an adrenaline rush when it goes perfectly.
Scott - 21 Jul 2007 19:59 GMT
> The high pucker factor makes it an adrenaline rush when it goes perfectly.

I just installed a Haas VF3 Super Speed; 1400 ipm rapid, cut at 850 and has
a 12000 rpm spindle. Tool changes happen so fast that if anything is wrong
or in the way, it will be molten steel, sparks and flames before you could
hit the big red button.

I have to say The machine was pretty nice compared the machines Haas put out
a few years ago. Now we'll just see how long the spindle lasts...
Bill Roberto - 21 Jul 2007 20:28 GMT
>> The high pucker factor makes it an adrenaline rush when it goes perfectly.
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> I have to say The machine was pretty nice compared the machines Haas put out
> a few years ago. Now we'll just see how long the spindle lasts...

Those rapids are going to test the ball screws too. You can't help but
like Haas. They sure found their niche. I've done some work for the
factory. Quite an impressive operation.
Scott - 21 Jul 2007 21:56 GMT
> Those rapids are going to test the ball screws too. You can't help but
> like Haas. They sure found their niche. I've done some work for the
> factory. Quite an impressive operation.

They are using all 2" ball screws now, with positive lubrication (some of
the older ones just had zerks that no one could remember to hit). My concern
is the spindles. I don't care for their tool room lathes or mills. I am used
to using the old Bridgeport EZ Traks, which I have literally years on, and
helped train a bunch of Alaska oil patch mechanics to run, it is that bone
simple. The programming on the Haas controls sucks too, way too clunky. But
we were using MCAMX2 for programming with LAN cables and 16 meg memories, so
it was easy to make 'em run.

What do you think of the new high speed machining strategies that are canned
with MCAMX2?
Bill Roberto - 22 Jul 2007 00:28 GMT
>> Those rapids are going to test the ball screws too. You can't help but
>> like Haas. They sure found their niche. I've done some work for the
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> What do you think of the new high speed machining strategies that are canned
> with MCAMX2?

To be honest I haven't tried them. My 3D customers have Fanuc controls.
Fanuc has an option called advanced look ahead. You can program a G5.1
with an R1-R10 level of precision. What this does is enable you to
program say 500 ipm. Where the control can maintain integrity it will go
500 ipm, say it buries into 180 or greater 3d arc it will slow down
depending on the precision level you set. The results are glass finishes
and no overcutting. It seems there are more than one definition of high
speed machining. One is cranking up the rpm and feedrates on 3d
surfacing. The other is removing material by actually harnessing the
energy stored in chatter. I would imagine Mastercams high speed feature
simulates what the Fanuc advanced look ahead feature does by modifying
feedrate depending on conditions. I don't know if that is what they do
but that is the only thing I can think of at the code level besides
cranking up the feeds and speeds.
Carl Nisarel - 22 Jul 2007 01:07 GMT
> To be honest I haven't tried them. My 3D customers have Fanuc
> controls. Fanuc has an option called advanced look ahead. You can
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> don't know if that is what they do but that is the only thing I can
> think of at the code level besides cranking up the feeds and speeds.

Oh Billy!  All this butch machinist talk is getting me oh so horny!  
Scott's playing hard to get, perhaps you can meet me at the local glory
hole?  If you buy me a drink, I'll have your love child.
Scott - 22 Jul 2007 01:09 GMT
> To be honest I haven't tried them. My 3D customers have Fanuc controls.
> Fanuc has an option called advanced look ahead. You can program a G5.1
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> but that is the only thing I can think of at the code level besides
> cranking up the feeds and speeds.

Look ahead can be punched into MCAMX2 for as many lines you like or your
control can handle.

Where I have found it to be useful is with titanium and aluminum.

We use the three flute monsters and run em at .008 to .014 per tooth, .1/4
to 7/16 a pass.

Sounds like an old school carpenter ripping plywood.

For the titanium we found that running the roughing on a 4 or 5 axis with
the tool tiled back from the material allowed coolant to get in and wax the
scrub. Instead of the leading edge getting smokes, with a couple degrees of
tilt during hogging, the coolant can get in there and deal with the edges.

Tool life went up 300%, no bullshit.

So then you are stuck with the finish passes. Moved all the meat, now you
gotta make it shiny.

Ribbed pockets from 1/8 to 8" deep in 6AL4V, with 1/8 walls.

Scientific Cutting Tools

http://www.sct-usa.com/main.asp

and Destiny http://www.destinytool.com/main.html

Vypers.

I wont bother anyone else here with the details, but these tools rocked.

I was squinting waiting for them to detonate and not one did.
Bill Roberto - 22 Jul 2007 05:47 GMT
> Look ahead can be punched into MCAMX2 for as many lines you like or your
> control can handle.

I was fortunate to have used 2 other really nice 3d software packages.
One was Vero, the other was TopSolid. Both had amazing toolpath
creation. I haven't really had a chance to play with Mastercam X.
I'll be getting an opportunity in the near future and I'm looking
forward to it.
Bill Roberto - 21 Jul 2007 02:35 GMT
>> Group,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> kula

Fact f.ck up foul on me.
I'm sorry that was where they started. They went out somewhere in the
vicinity where a ship was sunk at 170 feet deep. I was paying attention
to the diving and wasn't paying attention to much else.
Bill Roberto - 22 Jul 2007 00:41 GMT
Group,

Correction. I saw the program again today. This time I paid attention to
a little more detail. They went diving at Bikini lagoon near the Bikini
atoll. The ships they dove to were the Saratoga and a Japanese ship
taken during the war. The ships were sank on purpose by 2 nuclear
blasts. The first blast was detonated above the water and did little
damage. The second blast was detonated under water and that did much
more damage. 100 foot tsunami.
It was a subtle message of "don't f.ck with us" we sent out to the rest
of the world after world war 2.
Scott - 22 Jul 2007 01:12 GMT
> Group,
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> It was a subtle message of "don't f.ck with us" we sent out to the rest
> of the world after world war 2.

Yeah, Bikini hits 170 easy, and it is nuclear.

Live UXO on all those boats.
Greg Mossman - 22 Jul 2007 02:38 GMT
> Correction. I saw the program again today. This time I paid attention to
> a little more detail. They went diving at Bikini lagoon near the Bikini
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> damage. The second blast was detonated under water and that did much
> more damage. 100 foot tsunami.

You hardly need full face masks for that, or military status.  Just
$2,950 plus airfare.

http://www.bikiniatoll.com/
Bill Roberto - 22 Jul 2007 05:51 GMT
>> Correction. I saw the program again today. This time I paid attention to
>> a little more detail. They went diving at Bikini lagoon near the Bikini
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> http://www.bikiniatoll.com/

Yup. The only thing military is the channel. The full face was for
communication.
Grumman-581 - 25 Jul 2007 08:26 GMT
> Yup. The only thing military is the channel. The full face was for
> communication.

More than likely, it was just so that they could record audio for the
video...
Scott - 20 Jul 2007 19:53 GMT
> Group,
>
> Being new to diving, everything diving related gets my attention. The
> military channel had their crew dive to 170 ft. to check out one of the
> American ships sunk. I noticed all the divers wearing full masks. They
> looked pretty cool. Anybody ever use one?

Yes, and they have a place and purpose, most notably stopping potential
contamination and voice communications.

170 feet in Pearl Harbor?

I don't have any actual knowledge, but a lot of the ships were/are either
penetrating the surface, or just below...
 
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