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Scuba Forum / General / June 2007Help! I think my dive shop owner might be an idiot
I bought an Aqua-Lung ACD Legend recently. I have 4 dives on the regulator. As an octopus, I used an older Scubapro D350 second stage. As soon as I began each dive, within 20 feet, I noticed that I have to pull on the Aqualung regulator to get air even if the reg adjustment is increased to allow easiest breathing. It makes it very straining and I find I have to breathe very heavily when using the reg. As soon as I switch to the Scubapro reg, the breathing is fine and I notice no pull is required. So I take the reg to Mr. DSO and he looks at it, tests the intermediate pressure, scoffs and says its fine. He says the regs are on the wrong side. He says because the 1st stage is upside down, it won't work properly underwater. See when I bought the reg and hooked up my whips, seconds etc, it made sense that the body of the first stage should be setup downwards and tuck into the tank valve. The manual doesn't explain this well. He said no, the body of the first stage should stick up. Listening to him, I switched everything around and it now looks frigging ridiculous. It also doesn't breathe any better than before. I'm no nube, not an expert either by any means, but this whole experience has left me cold. >I bought an Aqua-Lung ACD Legend recently. I have 4 dives on the regulator. >As an octopus, I used an older Scubapro D350 second stage. As soon as I [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > I'm no nube, not an expert either by any means, but this whole experience > has left me cold. As you relate the incident, you're about 100% right. People turn the reg upside down, which has nothing to do with the way it breathes, to clear (from contact) their heads. Your LDS guy is an idiot. Or worse. Find a new LDS.  Signature"I wasn't going to get into any of this until later, but you asked a reasonable question. The problem for me in answering is that I'm theorizing with more intuited logic than facts." -JOF Popeye/ www.finalprotectivefire.com > I bought an Aqua-Lung ACD Legend recently. I have 4 dives on the regulator. > As an octopus, I used an older Scubapro D350 second stage. As soon as I [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > I'm no nube, not an expert either by any means, but this whole experience > has left me cold. Yeah, he's an idiot. Most of the time the first stage is horizontal, just like you. It makes no difference whether it points toward yer head or yer toes (well, as long as you don't swim fast enough to cause cavitation problems). I don't know anything about yer aqualung, but generally: Yer second stage has two mechanisms, the needle/seat and the diaphragm/lever. The lever should be adjusted just a paper thickness lower than the diaphragm at ambient, a bit more gap if yer using it as a secondary (to reduce free flow). If it breathes hard to start but then flows OK, this is prolly yer problem. Once the lever is depressed by the diaphragm, the needle should withdraw from the seat enough to provide plenty of flow. If you inhale hard and there is still insufficient flow, you may need adjustment here, or something may be bent. In your case, the external adjustment (which is only there because most dive shops can't adjust a reg properly) may be way off, but I doubt that. If you are not comfy adjusting yer own reg, take it to someone that knows what they're doing. esg >I bought an Aqua-Lung ACD Legend recently. I have 4 dives on the regulator. >As soon as I began each dive, within 20 feet, I noticed that I have to pull [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > So I take the reg to Mr. DSO and he looks at it, tests the intermediate > pressure, scoffs and says its fine. That may be correct and you will still experience all the symptoms you describe. Manufacturers don't design regulators so they all operate at the same pressure. I've had experience similar to yours. I used a Mares something or another with ScubaPro first and second stage regulators. The IP for the Mares was higher in it's normal setting that the ScubaPro making it a dog for breathing. In order to set the reg to work with the ScubaPro first and second stage regulators, the Mares regulator had to be detuned or set near or outside of the recommended limits. Regulators are not always interchanged without problems. > So I take the reg to Mr. DSO and he looks at it, tests the intermediate > pressure, scoffs and says its fine. It probably is. That's not normally what makes a regulator breathe hard. The problem is almost certainly in the second stage adjustment, not the first stage IP adjustment. > He says the regs are on the wrong side. He says because the 1st stage is > upside down, it won't work properly underwater. I say you're correct to assume he is an idiot. I don't have the particular model you have, but I have about a half dozen US Divers/Aqua Lung regulators as well as a couple Scuba Pros. None of them functions any differently right side up, upside down, or at a mostly upside down angle, which is how both of my Scuba Pro first stages are configured. > See when I bought the reg and hooked up my whips, seconds etc, it made > sense that the body of the first stage should be setup downwards and tuck > into the tank valve. That is upside down, but it should not make a difference. Many, maybe even most, divers configure their first stage the same way. > The manual doesn't explain this well. Probably because it does not matter. > He said no, the body of the first stage should stick up. Listening to > him, I switched everything around and it now looks frigging ridiculous. > It also doesn't breathe any better than before. Who cares how it looks. It's no surprise that it does not function any better. > I'm no nube, not an expert either by any means, but this whole experience > has left me cold. Find a good technician and have the regulator adjusted by someone that knows what they're doing . . . or learn to do it yourself. Lee ok, that may be stretching things, but at least I'm on the right track. Thanks Lee. To clarify; When I said it looks ridiculous, I meant that in the sense that - if pointed up - it looks like it may cause snagging problems because it sticks away from my rig. My head also hits it that way. >> So I take the reg to Mr. DSO and he looks at it, tests the intermediate >> pressure, scoffs and says its fine. [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > Lee > Find a good technician and have the regulator adjusted by someone that knows > what they're doing . . . or learn to do it yourself. I would have to second the suggestion that you learn to do it yourself... Some regs might be a bit easier than others... Turns out that the leaky reg problem that I had the other day was at least partly IP related... I had swapped to a newer 1st stage and it had a bit higer IP, so the 2nd stage leaked... Once back at my hotel, tried adjusting the 2nd stage a bit, but never was able to get it to not leak at least a bit, so I tried swapping back to my previous 1st stage... The leak stopped immediately... All that was left at that point was to undo all the adjustments that I had done to the 2nd stage in an attempt to fix the initial problem... >> Find a good technician and have the regulator adjusted by someone that knows >> what they're doing . . . or learn to do it yourself. > >I would have to second the suggestion that you learn to do it yourself... >... I would third the idea of learning to do it yourself. A few years ago I took courses and got certified in repairing many different kinds of SCUBA gear, largely so I would better understand stuff, I don't dive and I don't work for a dive shop. But if I can do it, I'd say darn near anyone can, and if it is restricted to a single or just a few brands, the equipment expense involved isn't that great. -- Galen Hekhuis ghekhuis@earthlink.net Hell hath no fury like a bird in the hand >>Find a good technician and have the regulator adjusted by someone that knows >>what they're doing . . . or learn to do it yourself. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > All that was left at that point was to undo all the adjustments that I had > done to the 2nd stage in an attempt to fix the initial problem... Hmmmmm. Most second stages will tolerate a fairly wide range of IP, usually plus or minus 5psi. They have to, most dive shops can't - or won't bother to - get the IP spot on. That said, it is best to adjust the IP accurately to the second stage recommendation, and to do that before frigging with the second stage. For that reason, the octo should have the same IP requirement as the primary, but you can often cheat with good results by setting the IP half way between. esg > Hmmmmm. Most second stages will tolerate a fairly wide range of IP, > usually plus or minus 5psi. They have to, most dive shops can't - or > won't bother to - get the IP spot on. I had switched the 2nd stages that I had used with a sidemount rig to another 1st stage (Oceanic, I believe)... The IP was just enough too much to cause a rather irritating constant leak... Initially, I thought that I just needed to adjust the cracking pressure a bit since that had cleared it up on another 2nd stage that was the same exact type... Eventually, I moved the 2nd stages back to the Dacor 360 1st stages that I had used for the sidemount rig and it fixed the leak... >> Find a good technician and have the regulator adjusted by someone that >> knows >> what they're doing . . . or learn to do it yourself. > I would have to second the suggestion that you learn to do it yourself... > Some regs might be a bit easier than others... Turns out that the leaky > reg problem that I had the other day was at least partly IP related... The words "I told you so" come to mind. Lee > The words "I told you so" come to mind. Perhaps, but I hadn't ever adjusted the IP on that particular 1st stage before nor did I know if I had the tools with me at the time to be able to adjust it... If it had been one of my Dacor 360s, I might have considered adjusting the IP... Of course, if I had been using th 360, I wouldn't have had to adjust it... >> The words "I told you so" come to mind. > Perhaps, but I hadn't ever adjusted the IP on that particular 1st stage > before nor did I know if I had the tools with me at the time to be > able to adjust it... If it had been one of my Dacor 360s, I might have > considered adjusting the IP... Of course, if I had been using th 360, I > wouldn't have had to adjust it... Between the tools I had and the tools you had, we could have adjusted the entire boat. A simple regulator adjustment would have been a snap . . . assuming it was adjustable from the outside. Lee > Between the tools I had and the tools you had, we could have adjusted the > entire boat. A simple regulator adjustment would have been a snap . . . > assuming it was adjustable from the outside. The 360s are adjustible from the inside... You just need to remove the cover... Not a big deal... I'm not sure on the Oceanic though... I'll have to look at it the next time I get a chance... >> Between the tools I had and the tools you had, we could have adjusted the >> entire boat. A simple regulator adjustment would have been a snap . . . >> assuming it was adjustable from the outside. > The 360s are adjustible from the inside... You just need to remove the > cover... Not a big deal... I'm not sure on the Oceanic though... I'll have > to look at it the next time I get a chance... My Scuba Pro Mk 20 is not externally adjustable. It uses shims. Then again, it's not likely to get significantly out of adjustment. The one I was using last weekend was a Mk 25 that I believe is externally adjustable. I'll have to check because I think it's adjusted a bit to the high side. My regulators showed a bit more tendency to free flow than I like, even when turned to their least sensitive setting. Lee |
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