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Scuba Forum / General / July 2007Comparing Mares Nemo, Suunto Mosquito or D3
Hi, I'm fairly new to the diving world and I have been offered a divers' watch as a birthday present. All I have to do is choose one. I really need your advice. Currently my income is such that free-diving is by far the most common thing I do, but I don't want to get a watch that will mostly fall short of my needs should I take up scuba more seriously in the near future. My initial research has led me to believe that the Suunto D3 is the best value watch for free-diving purposes, however their Mosquito watch also seems to have some free-diving features alongside scuba stuff like decompression stops. Can anyone confirm for me that the free-diving features of the Mosquito are just as complete and just as accessible as they are on the D3 please? If so, I will rule out the D3 from the shortlist. Comparing the (Steel) Nemo and Mosquito is more difficult. They are similarly priced and both claim to perform similar functions. I read in a web forum somewhere that both have inflexibilities in how they allow you to change mode (ie. between freedive and scuba, etc) and that not all the information you might want is available in certain modes. These are the kind of things you can't easily tell from the marketing blurb, so I wonder if anyone with either of these watches can describe what kind of frustrations or limitations I might discover in the actual in-use behaviour? For instance, is freedive mode more limited than scuba air mode? Can I measure things like my surface time and submerged time in seconds at the same time as seeing my current depth, water temperature, time of day, etc, without needing o keep pressing buttons to change mode? Can I even change mode while submerged? How limiting is the non user changeable battery of the Nemo? I wouldn't want to get an unexpected invitation to go on a diving trip only to reach for my Nemo and find the battery low with no time left to get it changed. As a Linux and Apple Mac user, I do not have access to a Windows PC. Are there any options for me to be able to download dive profiles or other stats from these watches to either of my computers? If not, can I access the data on the watch screen and write it down by hand instead? Finally, are there other manufacturers and models of dive watch I should be considering?  SignatureJames Taylor > Hi, I'm fairly new to the diving world and I have been offered a divers' > watch as a birthday present. All I have to do is choose one. I really > need your advice. Well, as long as you're not having to pay for it, ask for a Rolex Submariner in 18k... http://www.timemerchants.com/rolexes_RS176.htm On 14 Cze, 14:47, Grumman-581 <grumman...@DIE-SPAMMER-SCUM-gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 11:29:41 +0700, use...@oakseed.demon.co.uk.invalid > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > http://www.timemerchants.com/rolexes_RS176.htm cheap piece of junk ;-) Lot 300 http://www.antiquorum.com/eng/press/2007/13_04_07/p_release_results_eng.htm Janusz > > Hi, I'm fairly new to the diving world and I have been offered a divers' > > watch as a birthday present. All I have to do is choose one. I really > > need your advice. > > Well, as long as you're not having to pay for it, ask for a Rolex > Submariner in 18k... Yeah right! :-) Seriously though, I don't want to screw my benefactor for everything I can get, I just want to choose a watch that will be lastingly useful so as not to waste this opportunity by choosing unwisely. I've shortlisted the models in the subject of this thread because they seem to fit my needs, if I believe the sales blurb. I just hope that somebody here will be able to offer me some advice in choosing between them, or suggest another manufacturer that I should consider alongside these. Anyone? SignatureJames Taylor > I've shortlisted the models in the subject of this thread because they > seem to fit my needs, if I believe the sales blurb. I just hope that > somebody here will be able to offer me some advice in choosing between > them, or suggest another manufacturer that I should consider alongside > these. Anyone? Citizen makes a watch that logs your depth and such that a lot of people like... Personally, I use a Seiko dive watch that I bought in 1976... Fairly similar to this one: http://www.princetonwatches.com/shop/SKX173.asp It tells the time and has a second hand, so it's good enough for my needs... I also have a dive computer that I use on most dives... > > I've shortlisted the models in the subject of this thread because they > > seem to fit my needs, if I believe the sales blurb. I just hope that [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > It tells the time and has a second hand, so it's good enough for my > needs... I also have a dive computer that I use on most dives... This is what I use and I've been very happy with it. Ebay: http://tinyurl.com/2r2nuu > This is what I use and I've been very happy with it. > > Ebay: http://tinyurl.com/2r2nuu OK for shallow water dives, I guess... Only rated for 50 meters... I prefer a little more safety margin... Mine is rated for 150 meters -- over twice what I can reasonably expect to go on air... usenet@oakseed.demon.co.uk.invalid (James Taylor) pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :Hi, I'm fairly new to the diving world and I have been offered a divers' :watch as a birthday present. All I have to do is choose one. I really :need your advice. Get something that makes it easy to tell time and is waterproof to at least 100 meters. Timex and Casio are good brands. Don't worry about bezels or other gimmicks. If you start diving you'll be better off with a real dive computer. Dan Bracuk If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure. > > Hi, I'm fairly new to the diving world and I have been offered > > a divers' watch as a birthday present. All I have to do is choose > > one. I really need your advice. > > Get something that makes it easy to tell time and is waterproof to at > least 100 meters. Timex and Casio are good brands. Is this really all I will need or want in a watch? What about the other features of the Nemo and Mosquito that I asked about, such as the free-diving timers, depth gauge, temperature, etc? I already have a nice Swatch watch which makes it easy to tell the time underwater (only to 30m, but that's enough for the reefs around here). It's better than their "Fun Scuba" range which do not have a second hand with which to measure my free-dive times, and unlike the "Fun Scuba" watches it doesn't cease to tell the time when underwater. So, I am hoping that any divers' watch I get will be capable of rather more. > Don't worry about bezels or other gimmicks. If you start diving > you'll be better off with a real dive computer. I'm interested to know what you would you call a "real" dive computer, and in what way the Nemo and Mosquito fall short of this in your opinion? Thanks. SignatureJames Taylor usenet@oakseed.demon.co.uk.invalid (James Taylor) pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :Is this really all I will need or want in a watch? What about the other :features of the Nemo and Mosquito that I asked about, such as the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] :and in what way the Nemo and Mosquito fall short of this in your :opinion? yes it's all you need in a watch. Measuring bottom time and other such things is better done with a real dive computer. Here is a page that describes some: http://www.scubadiving.com/divecomputers The major difference between a watch with lots of gimmicks and a dive computer is that the computer will have a larger display so you will be able to read it easier. It will also likely have more features. When scuba diving, this sort of information is essential. When free diving, at most, it's nice to have, but not worth spending money on. At least not to me. Dan Bracuk If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure. > yes it's all you need in a watch. Measuring bottom time and other > such things is better done with a real dive computer. Here is a page > that describes some: http://www.scubadiving.com/divecomputers Good link, thanks. > The major difference between a watch with lots of gimmicks and a dive > computer is that the computer will have a larger display so you will > be able to read it easier. It will also likely have more features. > > When scuba diving, this sort of information is essential. You mean the sort of information provided only on dedicated dive computers, and not provided on watch sized computers? What information is this exactly? > When free diving, at most, it's nice to have, but not worth > spending money on. At least not to me. Fair point. You've given me pause for thought, so thank you. SignatureJames Taylor On Jun 16, 5:15 am, use...@oakseed.demon.co.uk.invalid (James Taylor) wrote: > > The major difference between a watch with lots of gimmicks and a dive > > computer is that the computer will have a larger display so you will [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > computers, and not provided on watch sized computers? What information > is this exactly? Let me know when you find out. I have about 150 dives on my watch- sized Suunto D9 to date and it would be nice to know what essential information I've been lacking all this time. The Suunto, with its small but readable display (as easy as telling time!), not only tells time and date, but also bottom time, depth, temperature, tank pressure, NDC time remaining (plus full deco info when necessary, including deep stops), estimated air time remaining, ppO2, OTU loading, and even what direction I'm headed in thanks to a built-in compass. My last big computer couldn't even tell the temperature, let alone the time and date. > > You mean the sort of information provided only on dedicated dive > > computers, and not provided on watch sized computers? What information [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > sized Suunto D9 to date and it would be nice to know what essential > information I've been lacking all this time. Thanks for speaking up for the Suunto. Can you please tell me whether the rumoured inflexibility between modes is annoying at all. In fact please tell me about any idiosyncrasies it has that I should be aware of when considering a Suunto. What do you like or dislike about the way it works? I'll probably just stick with a simple watch for the time being but when I eventually get a dive watch I am most likely to get a Suunto Mosquito based on what I've seen and read so far. However I read this about the Mosquito on a web forum: >> When it is set on mode "free diving" and you go for a scuba dive: >> it will go in alarm and be unusable for the next 48 hrs. >> Can not change from Ean to Air after a EAN dive until CNS >> percentage reaches 0%. Are these limitations likely to be true? > The Suunto, with its small but readable display (as easy as telling > time!), not only tells time and date, but also bottom time, depth, > temperature, tank pressure, NDC time remaining (plus full deco info > when necessary, including deep stops), estimated air time remaining, > ppO2, OTU loading, and even what direction I'm headed in thanks to a > built-in compass. I'm fairly sure it can't display all those things at the same time. Is it possible to select which items you want displayed? Eg. If I wanted to be able to see current depth, seconds submerged, and time of day on one screen, can I be done, or am I always going to need to press buttons to switch modes, etc? > My last big computer couldn't even tell the temperature, let alone the > time and date. Yes, I don't think a large size is absolutely necessary for a device to be useful. If a watch sized device will suffice, I'd prefer it over a bulkier device. SignatureJames Taylor On Jun 16, 9:30 am, use...@oakseed.demon.co.uk.invalid (James Taylor) wrote: > Thanks for speaking up for the Suunto. Can you please tell me whether > the rumoured inflexibility between modes is annoying at all. In fact > please tell me about any idiosyncrasies it has that I should be aware of > when considering a Suunto. What do you like or dislike about the way it > works? My main (and maybe only) beef about the Suunto is about the way it handles receiving tank pressure from the transmitter unit. This obviously doesn't affect a free-diver. There have been a few times where the tank pressure has been synched to the wrist unit, but I've waited too long to get in the water and the wrist unit switches out of dive mode and back into time mode. At that point, if I descend, I don't get a pressure reading, somewhat obviating the utility of the integrated pressure and making a dive rather chancy since I don't have a backup pressure gauge. In that situation, I'm forced to resurface and sometimes even have to shut off the tank and repressurize the system in order to get a reading. To avoid it, while I'm waiting around on a dive boat with a pressurized tank, until I can get in the water, I press one of the two lower buttons every few seconds to make sure it stays in dive mode until I descend. That's a pain in the a.s. Otherwise, I love it, even with the ultra-conservative NDC limits it imposes. > I'll probably just stick with a simple watch for the time being but when > I eventually get a dive watch I am most likely to get a Suunto Mosquito [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Are these limitations likely to be true? I don't free dive with mine, so I have no idea. I don't believe the D9 has a free diving mode. It does have a gauge mode that displays depth and time up to 200m. You should be able to find some answers on their website. > I'm fairly sure it can't display all those things at the same time. Is > it possible to select which items you want displayed? Eg. If I wanted to > be able to see current depth, seconds submerged, and time of day on one > screen, can I be done, or am I always going to need to press buttons to > switch modes, etc? The D9 displays depth and remaining NDC time in big numbers in dive mode. On the lower left is a selectable display that rotates tank pressure, current time, and O2 percentage. On the lower right is a selectable display that rotates temperature, bottom time, ppO2, and OTU %. I keep mine displaying tank pressure and bottom time, though it's nice to be able to find out the current time and the water temp by pressing a button. The lower numbers are smaller, but perfectly readable for my eyes, and I can easily take in all the necessary data (depth, time, and pressure) in a single glance at my wrist. > Yes, I don't think a large size is absolutely necessary for a device to > be useful. If a watch sized device will suffice, I'd prefer it over a > bulkier device. No kidding. Technology has obviated big brick computers, as long as the display is still legible, but some people still believe bigger is better. Likewise, some prefer a hose connected to the computer to measure tank pressure even though wireless transmission has been perfected and can eliminate a bulky HP hose. Go figure. > My main (and maybe only) beef about the Suunto is about the way it > handles receiving tank pressure from the transmitter unit.... [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > measure tank pressure even though wireless transmission has been > perfected and can eliminate a bulky HP hose. Go figure. "Perfected" perhaps in every way except as it was implimented, Greg? Sounds like your Suunto lacks a "hey, I'm diving here" button to command the system to go synch up with the wireless transmitter. ...or is the problem that the wireless transmitter saw no change over X period of time (including a cessation of queries from the receiver) and stopped transmitting? IMO, wireless transmission systems are almost there, but it still puts part of the package on your wrist. I've seen far more wristmount computers take a bounce off the deck than hose-mount :-) -hh > > My main (and maybe only) beef about the Suunto is about the way it > > handles receiving tank pressure from the transmitter unit.... [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > "Perfected" perhaps in every way except as it was implimented, Greg? Blame those crazy Finns. I curse them loudly whenever it occurs. I have two other hoseless AI computers that don't lose their synch, one Swiss and one Texan, but I still prefer the faulty Finnish 'cause it looks a lot prettier. Say what you want about the Finns, but they at least have a lot more style than the Swiss and especially the Texans (like all Texans, Cochran's motto is "bigger is better"). > Sounds like your Suunto lacks a "hey, I'm diving here" button to > command the system to go synch up with the wireless transmitter. > > ...or is the problem that the wireless transmitter saw no change over > X period of time (including a cessation of queries from the receiver) > and stopped transmitting? I should probably dig further and see what I can find out, but so far it's only a minor annoyance - maybe the manual addresses the issue, but since I got mine grey-market from Leisure Pro, the manual is all in Spanish. It's only a problem on the surface. As long as it's working when I descend, it continues to work perfectly during the dive. The DIR philosophy teaches us to ignore surface concerns. Apparently Suunto is very DIR. > IMO, wireless transmission systems are almost there, but it still puts > part of the package on your wrist. I've seen far more wristmount > computers take a bounce off the deck than hose-mount :-) I've seen far more hose-mount computers/gauges bouncing off the reef, as they dangle unclipped from their oblivious hosts. If you see my computer taking a bounce off the deck, my arm is probably attached to it. If that's the case, call 911 and tell them to look for a big hairy guy who likes to break bricks. He's "armed" and dangerous. If you end up with a Suunto check out http://www.macdivelog.com I use Mac Divelog and a USB cable that I purchased on Ebay for connecting my Mosquito to my MacBook Pro. Works great. For Linux do a search at http://freshmeat.net for "scuba" I've been using my Mosquito for about a year now and I really like it. Eggy > As a Linux and Apple Mac user, I do not have access to a Windows PC. Are > there any options for me to be able to download dive profiles or other [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Finally, are there other manufacturers and models of dive watch I should > be considering? I used to be a big fan of Suuntos (we have 8 of their dive computers in our shop for staff use), but in the 2 years I've had my D9, I've had to send it back twice. Once, the computer started fogging up on the inside. The second time, on a repetitive dive to 32m, the blasted thing decided I was at 196m and kept urging me to ascent to 96m, beeping for the entire duration of the dive. Grrr. Suunto was nice enough to replace the unit at no charge both times, but this set the done. Incidentally, the very next day after my second D9 fiasco, I took my old and trusty Vyper out for a dive. Was down to 35m, and on my way up with about 4 min of deco on the computer. While I was looking at it, it reset itself - dive time went to 0, nitrogen loading went to 0 and I went from having 4 min of deco to something like 70min on no- deco time. That was charming as well. That problem hasnt repeated itself, which, in some ways, is even more worrying. My wife's Stinger has also been fixed under warranty once. I still prefer Suunto computers - but I really wish they'd get their sh.t together with QC of late. V. |
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