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Scuba Forum / General / May 2007"Third Coming" interrupted by "devil" ray
They don't call them devil rays for nothing. Apparently Jesus came back to Earth back in 2001, this time born to a virgin hammerhead shark in Omaha, NE. Not for long, though. "The shark was born in a tank with three potential mothers, none of whom had contact with a male hammerhead for at least three years. The baby was killed within hours of its birth by a stingray in the same tank. Analysis of its DNA found no trace of any chromosomal contribution from a male partner." "Shark experts said this was the first confirmed case in a shark of parthenogenesis, which is derived from Greek and means "virgin birth." Is this proof of intelligent design, or what? Now women can knock themselves up and no man will be left on the hook for child support. > They don't call them devil rays for nothing. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > tank. Analysis of its DNA found no trace of any chromosomal > contribution from a male partner." I forgot the cite: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070523/ap_on_sc/virgin_births_sharks_8;_ylt=Av7WIAB 1eI1rM4FLz5vCpGME1vAI > Is this proof of intelligent design, or what? Now women can knock > themselves up and no man will be left on the hook for child support. Why would they want to do that? > > Is this proof of intelligent design, or what? Now women can knock > > themselves up and no man will be left on the hook for child support. > > Why would they want to do that? They'd have to pay for them all by their little selves, and 1/2 the lawyers in America would have no job. Hmmm, the shark is in Georgia, but the scientists are in Dublin, Ireland. They did DNA testing to confirm that there was no male involved, but they can't figure out which of three female sharks gave birth to the pup. They're sure there's no male shark around, but there are close relatives of the shark in the same tank, the stingray that supposedly killed the young shark is one of them. Me thinks drink may have had something to do with this discovery. > Is this proof of intelligent design, or what? Now women can knock > themselves up and no man will be left on the hook for child support. Naah. Pathenogenesis is relatively common among simpler vertebrates. There are many species of lizards which do this - including Komodo dragons. We see a version of in in amphibians & some fish (called hybridogenesis). It's also been observed a few times in sharks - the hammerhead you mention and two white-spotted bamboo sharks, have been observed to undergo Pathenogenesis. As for males getting shafted, the worst has to be gynogenesis. Basically you need a bit of sperm, but aside from "exciting" the egg to divide the sperm does nothing. So you put in all that effort - buy her flowers, dinner, expensive jewelry, and your genes don't even get passed on. Makes me happy I'm not a salamander... These forms of "alternative reproduction" appear to be nothing more then an adaptation among animals which live in low-density populations. Basically, if you can't find a mate "clone" yourself and hope that the clone has better luck. Move into other branches of life - non-vertebrate animals, plants, etc, and the whole idea of sex gets really mixed up. Hermaphrodites (some self-fertilizing; how's that for a Saturday evening), switching sexes, vague sexes, >2 "sexes". Makes human fetishes look like the missionary... Bryan > These forms of "alternative reproduction" appear to be nothing more then > an adaptation among animals which live in low-density populations. > Basically, if you can't find a mate "clone" yourself and hope that the > clone has better luck. I've been noticing a distinct swelling in my right hand in the past couple of months. You don't think . . . > Move into other branches of life - non-vertebrate animals, plants, etc, > and the whole idea of sex gets really mixed up. Hermaphrodites (some > self-fertilizing; how's that for a Saturday evening), switching sexes, > vague sexes, >2 "sexes". Makes human fetishes look like the missionary... Disgusting. No wonder Falwell checked out. This world is no place for a decent Christian. > As for males getting shafted, the worst has to be gynogenesis. Basically > you need a bit of sperm, but aside from "exciting" the egg to divide the > sperm does nothing. So you put in all that effort - buy her flowers, > dinner, expensive jewelry, and your genes don't even get passed on. Makes > me happy I'm not a salamander... Hey, no genes, no DNA, no paternity tests. Sounds like a plan to me. Lee I don't know. Some DNA might have been involved at some point. >> As for males getting shafted, the worst has to be gynogenesis. Basically >> you need a bit of sperm, but aside from "exciting" the egg to divide the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Lee >> As for males getting shafted, the worst has to be gynogenesis. Basically >> you need a bit of sperm, but aside from "exciting" the egg to divide the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Lee Wadda want to bet that you still end up paying child support? Bryan > >> As for males getting shafted, the worst has to be gynogenesis. Basically > >> you need a bit of sperm, but aside from "exciting" the egg to divide the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Wadda want to bet that you still end up paying child support? You don't even have to be the father, you just have to be stupid enough to try and be a father to a kid you didn't biologically father. Then you can look at cases where the father was denied access to the child, but paid child support regardless. One case I know of, in Kalifornia, the father paid child support for a decade after the child died, and no one informed him. Mom and the county collected. Here are literally hundreds of cites and cases of abuse; http://www.ancpr.org/caselaw.htm Are we still talking about sharks ? >> >> As for males getting shafted, the worst has to be gynogenesis. > Basically [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > http://www.ancpr.org/caselaw.htm > Are we still talking about sharks ? Professional courtesy is why sharks don't eat lawyers... > > Are we still talking about sharks ? > > Professional courtesy is why sharks don't eat lawyers... And why machinists don't eat monkeys. > > >> As for males getting shafted, the worst has to be gynogenesis. > Basically [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > http://www.ancpr.org/caselaw.htm I've got you beat there: An acquaintance of mine was seeing a girl whe had a kid just before they started going out. He really liked the kid (and the girl). At one point, they moved in together and he was basically supporting her and the kid. Eventually (After about 2 years), she decided that she wasn't interested in living with him anymore so she moved out (taking the baby with her). She then turned around and sued him for child support even though the kid obviously wasn't his. She also refused to let him see the kid (no visitation). Result: The judge determined (after seeing the results of a DNA test) that the guy was not the father and, therefore, had no rights to see the kid. The judge also determined that since the guy had started paying for the kid that he had accepted the responsibility and the judge required him to pay the child support. Last I heard, the girl was shacked up with some other dude and still collecting child support from my acquaintance. The worst part is that all of that happened here in the great state of Texas. > I've got you beat there: > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > The worst part is that all of that happened here in the great state of Texas. Very common occurrence. Make everyone *but* the mother pay. The shining star of feminism. <snip> > The worst part is that all of that happened here in the great state of Texas. Yeah, we've had our share of fuckin' socialistic Democrats here in Texas over the years... We always compare alimony as "paying for a dead horse"... Your example was more of "paying for someone else's dead horse"... >>> As for males getting shafted, the worst has to be gynogenesis. Basically >>> you need a bit of sperm, but aside from "exciting" the egg to divide the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Wadda want to bet that you still end up paying child support? "...Charlie was declared the father of the infant and ordered to pay substantial support despite a blood test showing that his fatherhood was scientifically impossible. Chaplin had in effect been found guilty of behavior offensive to conventional morality." http://www.trivia-library.com/b/hollywood-celebrity-scandals-charlie-chaplin-and -joan-barry-affair-part-2.htm > > As for males getting shafted, the worst has to be gynogenesis. Basically > > you need a bit of sperm, but aside from "exciting" the egg to divide the > > sperm does nothing. So you put in all that effort - buy her flowers, > > dinner, expensive jewelry, and your genes don't even get passed on. Makes > > me happy I'm not a salamander... > Hey, no genes, no DNA, no paternity tests. Sounds like a plan to me. That's my man Lee. Always thinking. The child support system and the courts that support it are abusive beyond any abuse that would be tolerated in any other venue. Murder, capital crimes like rape and kidnapping have statutes of limitations for prosecution/persecution. Child support and the jackals that administer it (under color of the good of the child) have no such limitations. There are some a.sholes out there (I know of one that has 13 kids with 12 different women), but the feminist Nazi's use the few cases to perpetuate the abuse of many. Plus, the Bar Association makes out. At the expense of kids. > That's my man Lee. > Always thinking. It's about all I can do any more. > The child support system and the courts that support it are abusive beyond > any abuse that would be tolerated in any other venue. A friend of mine scored a first in Florida. He and a coworker got together for a bit of fun and games and she took. Back then, the right thing to do was to get married, so they did. They had twin girls, cute as buttons. Mom and dad didn't get along for long. Nobody really contested the divorce, but the both wanted the twins. The both mad about the same money at the time of the divorce. She, being quite sure she had him by the short hairs, demanded custody and child support, putting together a list of expense he would have to pay that exceeded his salary by a significant margin. He, on the other hand, requsted custody, showed exactly how he would balance his work and paternal responsibilities, and proposed a very reasonable level of child support, basically a share in the variable costs of raising children, food, clothes and education. Imagine her surprise when he got custody. It was the first instance ever, in the state of Florida, where the father prevailed in a contested custody case. Things don't always turn out wrong, just most of the time. Lee > As for males getting shafted, the worst has to be gynogenesis. Basically > you need a bit of sperm, but aside from "exciting" the egg to divide the > sperm does nothing. So you put in all that effort - buy her flowers, > dinner, expensive jewelry, and your genes don't even get passed on. > Makes me happy I'm not a salamander... Oh, there's far worse than that. See 'Dr. Tatiana's Sex Advice for All Creation.' > > As for males getting shafted, the worst has to be gynogenesis. Basically > > you need a bit of sperm, but aside from "exciting" the egg to divide the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Oh, there's far worse than that. See 'Dr. Tatiana's Sex Advice for All > Creation.' Cliff! WTF is a guy like you doing in a nice place like this? > Cliff! > > WTF is a guy like you doing in a nice place like this? Got tired of beating up programmers, so I came back to smack y'all into shape. > Got tired of beating up programmers, so I came back to smack y'all into > shape. Pack a lunch, it'll be an all day job, and bring yo momma. She'll have the bandaids you're gonna need. Good to see you. > > Cliff! > > > WTF is a guy like you doing in a nice place like this? > > Got tired of beating up programmers, so I came back to smack y'all into > shape. Too late. We're beyond redemption. Hi, Cliff JF > Too late. We're beyond redemption. I didn't say I was planning to save your sorry self, just reshape. > > Too late. We're beyond redemption. > > I didn't say I was planning to save your sorry self, just reshape. Good luck with that. If anyone can do it, it is you. > > > Too late. We're beyond redemption. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > If anyone can do it, it is you. There's always Dr. Gene Scott in the SoCal market. I bet he could help Scott. > > > Too late. We're beyond redemption. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > If anyone can do it, it is you. It might be enlightening for you. JF > > Too late. We're beyond redemption. > > I didn't say I was planning to save your sorry self, just reshape. Ah well. There's certainly room for improvement. JF > Ah well. There's certainly room for improvement. Done any diving? > > Ah well. There's certainly room for improvement. > > Done any diving? Sadly, little in the past year. More pressing matters got in the way of fun. I have a new set of double 80's that have only had one fill through them. Hopefully this year will be a little more fun. Had to pass up two weeks on Grand Cayman recently due to work commitments. How about you? JF > How about you? My buddy broke his leg last summer, so we missed the peak season. The viz opened up around Christmas time, but we were both too busy to take advantage of it except for one free diving session. Conditions have been pretty iffy since then, but we're fixing to get out there again soon. Once we get a few dives in, I expect we'll be able to keep the ball rolling. Thought about going to the Caribbean, but just couldn't get excited about it. Airfares went up, for one thing. I think I'm more likely to head west for my next trip, but there's just too much going on here for that to be fun right now. > Thought about going to the Caribbean, but just couldn't get excited > about it. Airfares went up, for one thing. I think I'm more likely to > head west for my next trip, but there's just too much going on here for > that to be fun right now. http://tinyurl.com/245vyn All you gotta do is get here, I'll house and feed you. > http://tinyurl.com/245vyn > > All you gotta do is get here, I'll house and feed you. Thanks. In theory I'd love to do it, but in practice I think I'm just down on travelling recently and I've got a whole lot of projects that have been hanging around for a long time that I think I can finally take a really good whack at and that's what is consuming my attention. Until those are addressed, I'm just not going to be in a partying mood. > Thanks. In theory I'd love to do it, but in practice I think I'm just > down on travelling recently and I've got a whole lot of projects that > have been hanging around for a long time that I think I can finally take > a really good whack at and that's what is consuming my attention. Until > those are addressed, I'm just not going to be in a partying mood. Buzzkill. Get a life. > http://tinyurl.com/245vyn > > All you gotta do is get here, I'll house and feed you. You live in a parking lot? Is there a glory hole nearby? Can we meet? I want you to meat me! >> http://tinyurl.com/245vyn >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Is there a glory hole nearby? Can we meet? I want you to meat me! Is carl still alive? Tell him I enjoyed another effortless trip in and out of Canada. Prince George, this time, stunning views. It must be stifling hiding in his mother's basement all the time. > Thought about going to the Caribbean, but just couldn't get excited > about it. Airfares went up, for one thing. I think I'm more likely to > head west for my next trip, but there's just too much going on here for > that to be fun right now. Try going south some time. Drive down to TJ and hop on an Aero California flight to La Paz for $90 each way. Hotel/dive packages are extremely reasonable and it's less than a 2-hour flight, making a "long weekend" trip quite practical. The water warms up near ninety in the heart of the summer and you can dive with sea lions, hammerheads, mantas, and maybe even a whale shark. If whale sharks can't excite you, you're definitely overworked. >> Thought about going to the Caribbean, but just couldn't get excited >> about it. Airfares went up, for one thing. I think I'm more likely to [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > hammerheads, mantas, and maybe even a whale shark. If whale sharks > can't excite you, you're definitely overworked. Good point. Did a driving trip to Mulege' and that was fun, but we were too early in the season and I didn't care much for the dive op. But there was clearly a lot to see and I should give it a second chance. > Good point. Did a driving trip to Mulege' and that was fun, but we were > too early in the season and I didn't care much for the dive op. But > there was clearly a lot to see and I should give it a second chance. I've been planning a drive to Cabo and back for years. It's just a matter of making it happen. Years ago we did the drive on the mainland side, as far as Puerto Vallarta, and that was definitely an adventure. A long drive to be sure, especially on Mexican roads, but it sure does make it easier to pack. Too bad they don't have ferry- planes, where you drive your car into a cargo hold and drive it back out at your destination. Maybe when this endless war is finally over and the Air Force has to sell off tank transports to the highest bidder . . . It's true that the water doesn't start warming up down there until June or so, and supposedly only stays warm through December. I've dove Baja Sur in September and October and it's definitely warm enough for a skin/light suit at those times. Though Los Cabos can still be a bit chilly from the Pacific waters, La Paz and north get much warmer. The region is susceptible to hurricanes at that time, though not with the intensity or frequency found in the Caribbean. We made the out-of-the-way trek to Cabo Pulmo once and I was underwhelmed, but I believe that had a lot to do with the lazy dive boat not wanting to take us to the better spots (we repeated the same close-in site after they claimed that viz was down everywhere else). Boat diving out of La Paz can be excellent with good viz, and still very decent when the water turns green, but make sure you get on a fast boat as the sites are pretty far out. I may take my own advice and head down in either October or December, whenever I can best get away. I had been thinking about staying a few nights on Catalina or in La Jolla this summer for some quick and easy diving, but it ends up being cheaper to fly to Baja.
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