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Scuba Forum / General / June 2007

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padi or bsac

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kevinbarfield@btinternet.com - 21 May 2007 21:28 GMT
i live in england and holiday abroad which would be best padi or bsac
Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick - 21 May 2007 21:50 GMT
>i live in england and holiday abroad which would be best padi or bsac

 Both are fine abroad.

 Some argue that the BSAC system, radically different that pretty much all
other systems of training, has more benefit.

 Some don't agree, and a lively discussion will ensue.

 We'd love to have you here, and welcome, but there's an excellent
UK.Rec.scuba which may have better answers for your proximity.

Signature

                   Popeye
"After all your whining, you said no.
 You weaselled out.  Again." -MfO
      www.finalprotectivefire.com

Ian Blakeley - 23 May 2007 07:37 GMT
>>i live in england and holiday abroad which would be best padi or bsac

All together now - it depends on the instructor and how you get on
with them.

You'll have no issues using either qualification to dive pretty much
anywhere in the world. PADI is a commercial training organisation and
will sell you the training in incremental courses. Whereas BSAC is
principally a club based system where you would join a local club and
train and dive with them. However, to confuse matters BSAC have a
commercial arm and sell some training and there are PADI clubs often
affiliated with a particular shop.

Where abouts in the country are you? That will help with suggestions
from locals. Also consider what type of diving you may want to do,
diving in cool temperate tidal waters is a bit different to the med
for instance.

>  Both are fine abroad.
>
>  Some argue that the BSAC system, radically different that pretty much all
>other systems of training, has more benefit.
>
>  Some don't agree, and a lively discussion will ensue.

I think the bait's gone off actually ;-)

Signature

Ian

Ken - 23 May 2007 18:42 GMT
>>i live in england and holiday abroad which would be best padi or bsac

Doesn't matter. How good (or otherwise) a diver you eventually become is
ultimately down to YOU. The same physics and physiology apply regardless of
the training agency.

Ken
Paul - 21 May 2007 21:53 GMT
I personally would go for Padi. As they are a commercial organization they
are more focused on you as a customer. You will always be able to find a
dive centre that will be able to fit your specific diving requirements.

Every dive center in the world is a PADI dive center.

There are good and bad dive centers. Usually the easiest way to tell them
apart is by their class sizes. Anything more than 10 could be a bad sign.

>i live in england and holiday abroad which would be best padi or bsac
Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick - 21 May 2007 22:16 GMT
> As they are a commercial organization they are more focused on you as a
> customer

 :-)
Paul - 21 May 2007 23:16 GMT
I know. I am an optimist.

>> As they are a commercial organization they are more focused on you as a
>> customer
>
>  :-)
Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick - 22 May 2007 00:30 GMT
>I know. I am an optimist.
>
>>> As they are a commercial organization they are more focused on you as a
>>> customer
>>
>>  :-)

 I apologize for the inside joke.

 Around here, some consider PADI's commercialized organization and
focalization kind of like a magnifying glass on an ant. :-)
Lee Bell - 22 May 2007 01:37 GMT
>I personally would go for Padi. As they are a commercial organization they
>are more focused on you as a customer. You will always be able to find a
>dive centre that will be able to fit your specific diving requirements.

Not everyone thinks that a commercial operation cares more about its
students than a club based one.  Fair or not, no agency in the world has
ever had as much of a reputation for putting money ahead of quality as PADI
has.  Your reasons don't hold water.

> Every dive center in the world is a PADI dive center.

Not by a long sight.

Popeye was correct.  Both PADI and BSAC will work equally well abroad.  Both
are well known and both are well respected.  Chose the one that offers you
the best deal, for the best training, with the best instructor and go for
it.

Lee
El Stroko Guapo - 22 May 2007 01:44 GMT
>>I personally would go for Padi. As they are a commercial organization they
>>are more focused on you as a customer. You will always be able to find a
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Lee

Popeye and Lee are both right. Choose your instructor well, take
whatever card he gives you.

esg
Paul - 23 May 2007 20:07 GMT
How is a beginning diver to know whois a good or a not so good instructor?

>>>I personally would go for Padi. As they are a commercial organization
>>>they are more focused on you as a customer. You will always be able to
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> esg
Grumman-581 - 23 May 2007 21:52 GMT
> How is a beginning diver to know whois a good or a not so good instructor?

Average life expectancy of his students?

Oh no, I mentioned the 'A' word... Reefy will be around soon...
Damn...
El Stroko Guapo - 24 May 2007 01:53 GMT
> How is a beginning diver to know whois a good or a not so good instructor?

1. References - ask around among divers you know; go to a meeting of yer
local dive club and ask around; there are a lot of ex-instructors
flaoting around, ask them who they think are good.

2. Interview - talk to some instructors (whether you plan to use them or
not).

3. Luck - if yer first instructor is a loser, take an advanced course
from another.
dechucka - 24 May 2007 02:16 GMT
>> How is a beginning diver to know whois a good or a not so good
>> instructor?
>
> 1. References - ask around among divers you know; go to a meeting of yer
> local dive club and ask around; there are a lot of ex-instructors flaoting
> around,

well straight away that is not a good thing for a diver.

ps are they breathing or not?

snip
dechucka - 24 May 2007 02:28 GMT
>> How is a beginning diver to know whois a good or a not so good
>> instructor?
>
> 1. References - ask around among divers you know; go to a meeting of yer
> local dive club and ask around; there are a lot of ex-instructors flaoting
> around, ask them who they think are good.

On a serious note. I don't know what the situation is in the States but I
would say in Aus most dive clubs are associated with shops which are
associated with a training organisation. Yes there are many exceptions to
this rule but IMHO in general it is correct

> 2. Interview - talk to some instructors (whether you plan to use them or
> not).

Problem is that if you don't know the questions to ask and what is expected
as answers to those unknown questions it is a bit of a waste of time

> 3. Luck - if yer first instructor is a loser, take an advanced course from
> another.

Excellent advise or even another OW course if you don't feel confident after
the first.  A lot of shops/clubs in Aus offer "refresher courses" which seem
to be the uw part of the ow course so that you can make sure your skills are
OK if you are not confident or refresh them  in a slightly more controlled
situation.

PS no matter what when you have finished training and go diving be honest.
If you suck an 88 dry in 15 mins at 10m or aren't comfortable in murky water
or surges tell the DM than they can team you with someone at the same
standard or make provisions. You'll have a dive and won't muck it up for
more experienced people and feel like a prat

and of course ALWAYS BLOW LITTLE BUBBLES
Lee Bell - 24 May 2007 05:30 GMT
> 3. Luck - if yer first instructor is a loser, take an advanced course from
> another.

Glad you mentioned this.  It's a great lead in to my next comment.

No matter which organization you get your first course from, consider taking
your second one from someone else.  Each of the agencies, and there are a
bunch of them, has a little different approach and each of them will have a
different perspective on some aspects of diving.  Expose yourself to as many
of them as you can, picking an choosing what you like for yourself.

Lee
Dan Bracuk - 24 May 2007 22:19 GMT
"Lee Bell" <pleebell@bellsouth.net> pounded away at his keyboard
resulting in:

:Glad you mentioned this.  It's a great lead in to my next comment.
:
:No matter which organization you get your first course from, consider taking
:your second one from someone else.

2nd one?  Why would a certified diver need a 2nd course?

Dan Bracuk
If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure.
Paul - 21 May 2007 21:55 GMT
If you live in London I can recommend a good school.

>i live in england and holiday abroad which would be best padi or bsac
Sheldon - 22 May 2007 19:09 GMT
>i live in england and holiday abroad which would be best padi or bsac

Having taken a NAUI course with an overbearing instructor (would not let me
wear my contacts so I took the entire course blind).  I'm soon to take a
PADI course with another instructor who I seem to get along with well -- he
runs the local dive shop.

I think the best advice is what someone here told me.  Just get your card
and "then" learn to dive.  As another poster here said, however, PADI is
everywhere, so the card may be more universal, although I'm not sure about
that.
Limey - 23 May 2007 04:02 GMT
>>i live in england and holiday abroad which would be best padi or bsac
>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> everywhere, so the card may be more universal, although I'm not sure about
> that.

One of the smartest people here, AND one of the best and most experienced
divers to boot, recently said, 'pick yer instructor, and take whatever card
he gives you'.
Best advice I can think of to follow.

Dave.
Greg Mossman - 24 May 2007 15:35 GMT
> <kevinbarfi...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> PADI course with another instructor who I seem to get along with well -- he
> runs the local dive shop.

I'm surprised NAUI lets him get away with that.  How can you learn how
to do the required skills if you can't see them demonstrated?  A
"blind" exercise or two might be helpful someday in case you lose your
mask, but doing the entire course that way is definitely
counterproductive.
Sheldon - 26 May 2007 05:14 GMT
>> <kevinbarfi...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
>>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> mask, but doing the entire course that way is definitely
> counterproductive.

As I found out.  According to the instructor the reason he like to teach
NAUI is that they give him a lot of leeway in how he teaches the course.  I
was allowed to wear my glasses when we hooked up the regulator to the tank.
Grumman-581 - 22 May 2007 20:00 GMT
> i live in england and holiday abroad which would be best padi or bsac

A card just lets you get air fills... Go with whatever is most
convenient... After you get the card, *then* you can go about learning
how to actually dive...
John Hanson - 26 May 2007 02:42 GMT
>i live in england and holiday abroad which would be best padi or bsac

BSAC sounds manly.  PADI sounds effeminate.  I'd go with BSAC even
though I'm PADI AOW and SDI Nitrox.
Diesel - 03 Jun 2007 17:32 GMT
> i live in england and holiday abroad which would be best padi or bsac

I've trained with several diver training agencies and with other divers
trained by both commercial instructors including BSAC, SAA, PADI, SDI
NAUI & SSI.

If you're in the UK (as am I), don't  forget that either are two other
club based training organisations, the SAA (Sub Aqua Association) and
SSAC (Scottish Sub Aqua Association), all of which offer very similar
courses and qualifications to that of the BSAC (British Sub Aqua
Association).

I was originally BSAC trained (back in 83), but have also completed
technical courses with SDI, TDI, IANTD and PSA and I'm now an SAA member
and club instructor.

In short the  best way of training will be determined by you.

If you want a comprehensive course that won't cost you a lot (just the
annual club membership fee) and that you can do at your own pace, in a
relaxed environment, then the club system is probably the best.  With
the club system you're not paying for instruction, as its members like
me who volunteer their time to instruct, thus you do the course at your
own pace, repeating any drills and theory work as many times as ittakes
for you to fully understand and gain proficiency. You will also gain
from the decades of experience from all the other club members and
instructors who won't have a commercial axe to grind, and often  you can
use club equipment to train.  The disadvantage is that it will take a
lot longer to get the qualification, often a few month, as clubs meet
once or twice a week (lecture & pool sessions), so if you're in a hurry
its not appropriate.  Also, unlike al the commercial agencies, clubs
don't charge for any additional courses such as first aid, rescue,
dry-suit, drift, wreck, etc.

There are BSAC and SAA clubs throughout England and Wales and SSAC in
Scotland.  You can locate local clubs via the respective web-sites
www.saa.org.uk and www.bsac.co.uk.

Commercial training via PADI, SDI, NAUI, SSI etc can also be good and
has the advantage (and possibly disadvantage) of being done over a much
shorter time, often over consecutive days.  The quality is purely
dependent upon the individual instructor rather than the particular
agency.  Personal referral from previous student is thus essential;
however, if you need to take a little longer to complete the course you
will pay for any additional time and everything is and extra. (PADI
sometimes stands for 'Put Another Dollar In').

The qualifications from ALL these organisations are recognised
worldwide.  BSAC, SAA & SSAC are members of CMAS, the worldwide
organisation for sports diving clubs, and, for example, a BSAC 'Sports
Diver' has the same qualification as a SAA 'Club Diver' or PADI Advanced
Open Water (AOW) & Rescue Diver, thus if you train with one agency you
can also do a 'crossover' course to many other agencies.

I've dived in many locations and my BSAC and SAA qualifications have
always been welcomed.  There was only one dive centre that wanted me to
do a PADI course and stared that they don't recognise the BSAC, but that
was purely so they could sell me a course for a few hundred dollars, so
I went elsewhere!

I hope that helps.

Regards,

Tony
Maria James - 03 Jun 2007 22:55 GMT
>  (PADI  sometimes stands for 'Put Another Dollar In').

Does that make BSAC - Better Sign Another check?
Ken - 03 Jun 2007 23:11 GMT
>>  (PADI  sometimes stands for 'Put Another Dollar In').
>
> Does that make BSAC - Better Sign Another check?

Or (pardon the spelling) Become Sertified Another Century?
Anyway, PADI stands for "Put ALL your Dollars In"

Ken
Søren Reinke - 04 Jun 2007 06:37 GMT
>>>  (PADI  sometimes stands for 'Put Another Dollar In').
>> Does that make BSAC - Better Sign Another check?
>
> Or (pardon the spelling) Become Sertified Another Century?
> Anyway, PADI stands for "Put ALL your Dollars In"

And CMAS means 'Complete moron at sea'.

/Søren
Nigel Hewitt - 04 Jun 2007 07:30 GMT
>>  (PADI  sometimes stands for 'Put Another Dollar In').
>
> Does that make BSAC - Better Sign Another check?

The traditional line is Better Send Another 'Chopper' (Helicopter).

nigelH
PADI MSD, BSAC SD/ADI.
Maria James - 04 Jun 2007 18:05 GMT
Or the other one for PADi is:

Pay And Dive In
Doh - 04 Jun 2007 20:34 GMT
> Or the other one for PADi is:
>
> Pay And Dive In

Nah, the best one is
Paperwork, and diving inbetween.

Whats the BSAC equivalent of the PADI 5 point descent?
Scott - 04 Jun 2007 20:47 GMT
> > Or the other one for PADi is:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Whats the BSAC equivalent of the PADI 5 point descent?

Belly flop?
Doh - 04 Jun 2007 20:47 GMT
>>> Or the other one for PADi is:
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Belly flop?

;-)

Nah, I don't know what its SUPPOSED to be, but I heard it was
BAD

Bacon Sarnie
Arse Wiped
Descend!
Matthias Voss - 04 Jun 2007 22:18 GMT
>> Or the other one for PADi is:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Whats the BSAC equivalent of the PADI 5 point descent?

Glad I don't have coffee at this time of day ;-)

Matthias
Doh - 04 Jun 2007 22:30 GMT
>>> Or the other one for PADi is:
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Glad I don't have coffee at this time of day ;-)

COFFEE?

Isn't that

Count On Free Flow Every Excursion?

Which organisation is that then ;-)

> Matthias
John Hanson - 21 Jun 2007 03:47 GMT
>>>> Or the other one for PADi is:
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
>Which organisation is that then ;-)

<golf clap>
Scott - 21 Jun 2007 04:12 GMT
> >COFFEE?
> >
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> >
> <golf clap>

Not to ride your a.s, but WTF does a "golf clap" do for anyone?

He deserved far more than anything to do with golf.

BARKEEP!

A double for the man.
Doh - 22 Jun 2007 01:53 GMT
>>> COFFEE?
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> A double for the man.

Yes, too bloody right! Thanks for that support!

What is "golf clap' anyway, some sort of sexually transmitted disease
caught by hanging around in sand pits with people in loud trousers?

Ahh, got it , its my new motto for my dive centre

Get
One
Large
Fortune
-
Clients
Leave-
Always
Penniless
Scott - 22 Jun 2007 02:22 GMT
> Yes, too bloody right! Thanks for that support!
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Always
> Penniles

Long as it doesnt make you feel like you are pissing razor blades or
kerosene...
Dillon Pyron - 10 Jun 2007 02:50 GMT
>Or the other one for PADi is:
>
>Pay And Dive In

You know the phone number for PADI, right?

1-800-PAY-PADI  (they claim it's SAY-PADI)
Signature

dillon

The pen may be mightier than the sword, but I've never
seen a .sig beat a Sig.

Diesel - 04 Jun 2007 23:15 GMT
>>  (PADI  sometimes stands for 'Put Another Dollar In').
>
> Does that make BSAC - Better Sign Another check?

Nope, that only happens when you go to the LDS!
 
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