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Scuba Forum / General / May 2007Brass Backplates
Patrick and I have been talking. Patrick was the skipper of a minesweeper. Yes, an officer. 1/4" Brass. Special edition. One run only, ever. $$$$$$$$ (like $275 to $325 each, depends upon material prices). Will be delivered with a proper polish and a can of Nevr-Dull. If you want one with the USMC or US Navy insignia, you must provide proof of service (we have to get permission from the Navy to use the emblems). "The Navy Office of Information may grant such permission provided the circumstances under which the emblem is reproduced or used do not reflect unfavorably on the U.S. Navy or its personnel, and the use of the emblem conforms to the dictates of good taste and propriety. For questions about the use of the Navy emblem or to obtain a copy of the emblem, please contact the Navy Office of Information at XXX-XXX-XXXX" Ping me. > If you want one with the USMC or US Navy insignia, you must provide proof of > service (we have to get permission from the Navy to use the emblems). No USAF????? >> If you want one with the USMC or US Navy insignia, you must provide proof >> of >> service (we have to get permission from the Navy to use the emblems). > > No USAF????? only if you are using "wings" > > If you want one with the USMC or US Navy insignia, you must provide proof of > > service (we have to get permission from the Navy to use the emblems). > > No USAF????? Did you guys have to shine brass? sh.t man, we had belt buckles, plumbing, tons of brass sh.t that had to shine like a diamond in a goats a.s. It's a Naval thing. For you, I would do the AF insignia, as long as we secure permission. >>>If you want one with the USMC or US Navy insignia, you must provide > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > For you, I would do the AF insignia, as long as we secure permission. You have my permission, but I really don't want a backplate. > You have my permission, but I really don't want a backplate. I figured as much. =;-) >> You have my permission, but I really don't want a backplate. > > I figured as much. > > =;-) What the hell would he do with it? His a.s would pile drive into the bottom like an anchor... >>>You have my permission, but I really don't want a backplate. >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > His a.s would pile drive into the bottom like an anchor... Not if I had that USAF eagle on it, I'd just soar and swoop! esg >>>>You have my permission, but I really don't want a backplate. >>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > esg I stand corrected. :-) > Not if I had that USAF eagle on it, I'd just soar and swoop! And what if you had the French Maid emblem... Clean and mop? >> > If you want one with the USMC or US Navy insignia, you must provide > proof of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Did you guys have to shine brass? I shined a lot of brass working as a doorman during college. It's not something I'm proud of though. > I shined a lot of brass working as a doorman during college. It's not > something I'm proud of though. Of course not. There is no tradition nor honor behind it. > I shined a lot of brass working as a doorman during college. It's not > something I'm proud of though. Not proud of which part? Working? >>> > If you want one with the USMC or US Navy insignia, you must provide >> proof of [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I shined a lot of brass working as a doorman during college. It's not > something I'm proud of though. Maybe we could get one with a Betty Crocker emblem. > Maybe we could get one with a Betty Crocker emblem. OK, that was a perfectly good bite of a buffalo hamburger... Or like a French maid bent over showing her buns under the lace or something... >> Maybe we could get one with a Betty Crocker emblem. > OK, that was a perfectly good bite of a buffalo hamburger... > Or like a French maid bent over showing her buns under the lace or > something... Maybe a British Nanny....... > Did you guys have to shine brass? Hell, they probably had an epoxy clearcoat over the brass so that they would never have to shine it again... <grin> I would expect the Air Force to have more aluminum around than brass... > For you, I would do the AF insignia, as long as we secure permission. I'm surprised that you would need to secure permission... Hell, no one ever got permission from them to get the emblems tatooed on their arms... > 1/4" Brass. What do you use to cut them out? A water jet, plasma cutter, or some sort of CNC machine? You might want to consider cutting some D-rings and keepers out of the 1/4" plate sections that are left over after you lay out the backplate blanks... Of course, making some weight belt buckles out of 1/4" plate would be rather cool also... In a pinch though, a buckle can be made out of a pair of D-rings though... > 1/4" Brass. Oh, one more thing... To do it *right*, you need brass tank bands also, right? > > 1/4" Brass. > > Oh, one more thing... To do it *right*, you need brass tank bands > also, right? How much friggin money do you want to spend? > How much friggin money do you want to spend? Awh, 'ell, I'm waiting on the brass diamondplate model... <grin> Seriously though... Is the brass sheets that much more expensive than the stainless steel sheets? > > How much friggin money do you want to spend? > Awh, 'ell, I'm waiting on the brass diamondplate model... <grin> Sure, show me where to get brass diamond plate. > Seriously though... Is the brass sheets that much more expensive than > the stainless steel sheets? There are several issues with the brass; It doesn't laser worth sh.t, so it has to be waterjetted or machined, and it has about a 30% machineability factor. It gums on the tools, it wads and smears, it is a bitch to work with (which is why most brass parts you saw in the Navy are castings with minimal machine work). The brass alloy that is malleable (so we can bend it without creating cracks and stress risers) is not cheap. A 4x8 sheet of this plate is 30% more expensive than a sheet of 316, around $1800 (prices change almost daily). Basically, the plated needed for one backplate is around $80 in raw material. Handling of the softer material so as not to introduce gouges and scratches. I will have to make the bending dies with a very high quality finish (16 or better) on the radii so as not to introduce gouges or dents at the bend points. Polish. I aint gonna polish a brass backplate by hand, and having them polished is about $75 a plate. You will be able to read your finger print in one, but it aint cheap. So, without consideration for the cutting, bending or machine work, you are looking at a minimum of $155 just to cover bar stock and polish. If I cant get a run of at least 20 going, it isn't going to happen. I wont even go into making bands and all that, it would simply be ridiculous. If you want to blow around $1500, to 2k on a brass plate and bands, we can talk. Other than that, it's a nice dream. > There are several issues with the brass; > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Basically, the plated needed for one backplate is around $80 in raw > material. I'd inclined to want a decent anneal to get rid of cold work residual stress, as that would have the potential for long term cracks at the bends, particularly with saltwater corrosion potential. For 70-30, ~1 hour @ 500F for simple stress relief could be done in a standard kitchen oven, but hitting 1000F for a real anneal can't...time for a torch treatment, which adds variability. > Handling of the softer material so as not to introduce gouges and scratches. > I will have to make the bending dies with a very high quality finish (16 or [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Other than that, it's a nice dream. How about a Titanium Travel Butterfly? -hh > How about a Titanium Travel Butterfly? That's what I'm talkin' about. Of course, it's got to be Nitrox clean. ;-) > > How about a Titanium Travel Butterfly? > > That's what I'm talkin' about. > > Of course, it's got to be Nitrox clean. ;-) Titanium and elevated levels of O2 are mutually exclusive. In fact, if when machining the stuff, the particles get small enough, they will ignite spontaneously. These would have to be cut with a waterjet and I seriously doubt anyone here would want to pay for one. 14 ga 6AL4V would cost about $650 for the material for one plate. > > > How about a Titanium Travel Butterfly? > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Titanium and elevated levels of O2 are mutually exclusive. notice the ;-) > > Titanium and elevated levels of O2 are mutually exclusive. > > notice the ;-) Yeah. One of my favorite burns (pun intended) is to take a small pile of chips out into the parking lot, and apply a propane torch. People who have never seen the stuff burn before get that nice blinding spot burned into their retina for a couple minutes. > One of my favorite burns (pun intended) is to take a small pile of chips out > into the parking lot, and apply a propane torch. > > People who have never seen the stuff burn before get that nice blinding spot > burned into their retina for a couple minutes. I always liked giving an old titanium thermowell to a new kid and telling him to bead blast it. > I always liked giving an old titanium thermowell to a new kid and > telling him to bead blast it. That's rotten. Almost as rotten as putting Dykem under the handles on the new kids tool box... >>I always liked giving an old titanium thermowell to a new kid and >>telling him to bead blast it. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Almost as rotten as putting Dykem under the handles on the new kids tool > box... I know Dykem (you bastard!) but what happens when ya bead blast titanium? > I know Dykem (you bastard!) but what happens when ya bead blast titanium? It makes lots of sparks > > I know Dykem (you bastard!) but what happens when ya bead blast titanium? > > It makes lots of sparks Especially if you put Dykem in the end of the gloves first... > > > I know Dykem (you bastard!) but what happens when ya bead blast > titanium? > > > > It makes lots of sparks > > Especially if you put Dykem in the end of the gloves first... That's really evil > That's really evil I know you are grinning. And yes, it is evil, which is why it is so good. I think the only thing close in level of evil is that black tacky grease they put on 5th wheels... You could paint an entire building with a tablespoon of that sh.t. >> That's really evil > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > You could paint an entire building with a tablespoon of that sh.t. DuPont 5200 is on a similar level. One speck, anywhere on you, will spread to cover all the most difficult part of you to reach. Al Wells sexually stimulated me with: >> I know Dykem (you bastard!) but what happens when ya bead blast >> titanium? > > It makes lots of sparks just like when you and i get together? oh al baby, quit playing so hard to get. you know that you want me! i'll be your sex slave. you can f.ck me until my eyes bulge. > I know Dykem (you bastard!) but what happens when ya bead blast titanium? Amazing how many times you touch your face during the day, eh? When you glass bead Ti it throws sparks. Al Wells tease me with: > I always liked giving an old titanium thermowell to a new kid and > telling him to bead blast it. i love it when the new kids blast their "beads" all over me too! oh al, talk dirty to me some more! > Sure, show me where to get brass diamond plate. Damn, that's going to make it difficult to properly appeal to the redneck ex-Navy market share... > There are several issues with the brass; > > It doesn't laser worth sh.t, so it has to be waterjetted or machined, and it > has about a 30% machineability factor. It gums on the tools, it wads and > smears, it is a bitch to work with (which is why most brass parts you saw in > the Navy are castings with minimal machine work). Interesting... I would have thought that brass would be easier to machine than stainless steel... I know that with hand tools, I definitely prefer working with it over stainless steel... <grin> > If you want to blow around $1500, to 2k on a brass plate and bands, we can > talk. Good point... Hell, it would be even worse since once you went that far, you would just *have* to go with a brass 1st and 2nd stage to make it look *right*... <grin> <rip> > Interesting... I would have thought that brass would be easier to > machine than stainless steel... I know that with hand tools, I > definitely prefer working with it over stainless steel... <grin> The only thing that I have found to be harder to machine than brass is copper.  Signature“TAANSTAFL” ____________________________________________________________________________ "A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences." - Proverbs 22:3 ____________________________________________________________________________ > > Interesting... I would have thought that brass would be easier to > > machine than stainless steel... I know that with hand tools, I > > definitely prefer working with it over stainless steel... <grin> > The only thing that I have found to be harder to machine than brass is > copper. Gummy sh.t. Welds nicely though... > Interesting... I would have thought that brass would be easier to > machine than stainless steel... I know that with hand tools, I > definitely prefer working with it over stainless steel... <grin> There are brass alloys that machine very easily. They have a little bit of lead in them which makes the chips break nicely and reduces tool wear. > > Interesting... I would have thought that brass would be easier to > > machine than stainless steel... I know that with hand tools, I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > of lead in them which makes the chips break nicely and reduces tool > wear. But doesn't bend for sh.t, and turns green at the thought of salt water... 1/4 hard, 1/2 hard, etc. Hugh nailed it with his post on annealing. I even checked into UNS C6300 plate just because I am sadistic... > > Sure, show me where to get brass diamond plate. > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > far, you would just *have* to go with a brass 1st and 2nd stage to > make it look *right*... <grin> 90% of regs are brass that is chrome plated... > 90% of regs are brass that is chrome plated... Yeah, but it takes a long time to naturally wear through all that chome plating... Short of an abrasive method, is there an way to remove the chome without destroying the brass in the process? >>90% of regs are brass that is chrome plated... > > Yeah, but it takes a long time to naturally wear through all that > chome plating... Short of an abrasive method, is there an way to > remove the chome without destroying the brass in the process? It's nickel, I think, not chrome. esg > >>90% of regs are brass that is chrome plated... > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > > It's nickel, I think, not chrome. All cosmetic chrome is a very thin layer of chromium on top of nickel on top of copper (I am sure you know about "triple chrome"). Hard chrome, as used for wear parts and corrosion protection is simply a thick layer of chromium. > > 90% of regs are brass that is chrome plated... > > Yeah, but it takes a long time to naturally wear through all that > chome plating... Short of an abrasive method, is there an way to > remove the chome without destroying the brass in the process? Yes, any plating shop can etch it off. >>90% of regs are brass that is chrome plated... > > Yeah, but it takes a long time to naturally wear through all that > chome plating... Short of an abrasive method, is there an way to > remove the chome without destroying the brass in the process? Vinegar. Diving in a H2S layer. Matthias |
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