Scuba Forum / General / May 2007
Out of air situations
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bernardlyall - 23 Apr 2007 14:22 GMT I recently was involved in a OOA situation - my buddy's reg free-flowed as we were coming up from 30m off the UK south coast, and lost him his air double-quick. We handled the whole thing fairly well - he went for my octopus and up we went, slowly and calmly but owing to prior delays (and this is the bit that makes me plan to be more conservative in the future) now without air for proper stops. We were fine, but it's made me wonder about the difference between how things are supposed to go and real-world situations. A tech-diver mate says they're taught to expect the OOA diver to grab their primary reg (they can see it, and see that it's working), and that's the idea behind inflator-octopuses (octopi??) as well - they take your primary, you use the inflator reg.
So - what really happened when you or someone you know lost their air?
Bernard
Lee Bell - 23 Apr 2007 15:46 GMT >I recently was involved in a OOA situation - my buddy's reg free-flowed as >we were coming up from 30m off the UK south coast, and lost him his air [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Bernard Interesting I get to be the first to respond to this one. Here's some suggestions, from a semi technical perspective.
Regarding who grabs what, it's a common belief that an OOA diver will almost always grab your primary regulator. I don't believe in common beliefs, so I try to ensure things can happen only one way. With my kit, you would find it very difficult to grab anything other than my primary. It's in my mouth, held loosely enough that neither it, nor I, get hurt if you grab it unexpectedly. My alternate is on a shorter hose, smaller, black, and on a necklace just below my chin. You literally have to reach past my primary to get to my alternate. Obviously, I plan on using the alternate. As an aside, my alternate, like my primary , is a high performance, high quality regulator. The last thing I want to do is get cheap on the regulator I'll be using in an emergency.
The issue of gas management is also kind of important. For anything but the most recreational of dives, meaning no, or very little decompression, the norm is for each diver in a buddy team to carry sufficient gas to get himself and his buddy to the surface safely and at least a little more. The rule of thirds handles that for my pretty well. I use one third for the dive, one third to get myself out of the dive, and one third for whatever emergency comes up, including an OOA buddy. That applies to travel gas, if any, bottom gas and deco gas.
Alert divers don't often have to share air. I've done it a few times, but each time, I saw the situation developing and made the offer. Nobody has ever taken my regulator. I've always given it to them. I give my primary. Once, a buddy had a regulator failure. The first stage stopped working. I saw the buddy coming and headed for him, breathing my alternate, with my primary in hand. Once my wife/buddy had stayed a bit shallower than I did, but thanks to some excitement during the dive, had used a bit more gas than I did. I needed to do a deco stop, she didn't. I had plenty of gas, she didn't. Rather than separate, I handed her my primary and I used my alternate. We both did my deco stop and ascended together. The third incident was during a deco stop. My buddy was using mix, I was using nitrox. He had only mix, I had a 40 cf sling tank full of 50%. Once I was sure that I had met all my deco obligations, I passed off the deco mix alternator so he could us my helium free mix to ensure he was not only nitrogen safe, but helium safe. It probably wasn't necessary, but we had the gas, and it's better to be safe than sorry.
The only time I've been involved in a situation where someone took the other diver's regulator without it being offered, I was the OOA diver. Last year, on a spearfishing trip, a grouper I had shot managed to get under a rock, taking my spear with him. I didn't want to lose the fish or the spear, so I spent most of the dive trying to get both back out. I did not succeed. In the process, I used my gas at a faster than normal rate. I checked to ensure my buddy had plenty of gas for the two of us, and deliberately used mine to try to get the fish and spear. When I ran out, I signaled I was out and, much to my surprise, he turned away and continued to try to get the fish. I later learned he had mistaken my signal for low on air. He was head down by the rock when I took what was available, his combination inflator/alternate. It surprised him a bit, but not for long. We traded and headed for the surface. It was a shame about the fish and spear, but you have to have your priorities. Note that I did not accidentally run out of gas, or deliberately do so without knowing my buddy was right there and had enough for both of us.
At any rate, the only time anyone grabbed a regulator unexpectedly, I grabbed what was available. I did not do it in a panic, I did it deliberately and, had the primary been available, I would have taken that instead since that's the right one to have when using a combination inflator/alternate. Take this for what it's worth. I've been diving for 45 years and may not be representative of what a less experienced diver would do.
Lee
kjw - 23 Apr 2007 15:49 GMT >I recently was involved in a OOA situation - my buddy's reg free-flowed as >we were coming up from 30m off the UK south coast, and lost him his air [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Bernard the difference here is that he grabbed it as opposed to you handing it to him. Handing him you primary makes sense as it is (slightly) more easily accessible and the OOA diver may be panicking.
In your case, he grabbed the secondary, so all was well.
Martin - 23 Apr 2007 16:38 GMT Only had one serious out of air from a guy in a group I was leading at 25m.
O.K. at max depth of 30m, 60% of a tank left at the turn as we headed back to the surface. Supposedly trained to Advanced Standard in PADI but narced, hyperventilated his tank away in no time and panicked. Left his buddy and finned towards me for all he was worth with his pressure gauge held out straight for me to see. He had 10 bar left at 25m and all the out of air signals from his training went completely out of the window.
I gave him my primary just before he grabbed it and then held him firmly by the BCD, looking him straight in the eyes, as I reassured him and calmed him down before he breathed my air away in a similarly quick time. Quickly checked his buddy was paired off with someone else, that all others were O.K. and then brought us all back to the surface.
Important lessons and success factors for me were : - Calming him down as quickly as possible - Expecting the unexpected and allowing 33% of my air for the unexpected in the plan - Debrief session afterwards with all the others - Debrief with the OOA guy (one to one) praising him for the stuff he did right as his self confidence was completely shot at that stage - I knew the guy quite well but he did not respond as he or I would have expected
Bottom line .... my humble advice is expect the unexpected and always build contingency into your plan
Well done for handling the situation calmly
Martin
 Signature mjn at onetel dot com
I recently was involved in a OOA situation - my buddy's reg free-flowed as we were coming up from 30m off the UK south coast, and lost him his air double-quick. We handled the whole thing fairly well - he went for my octopus and up we went, slowly and calmly but owing to prior delays (and this is the bit that makes me plan to be more conservative in the future) now without air for proper stops. We were fine, but it's made me wonder about the difference between how things are supposed to go and real-world situations. A tech-diver mate says they're taught to expect the OOA diver to grab their primary reg (they can see it, and see that it's working), and that's the idea behind inflator-octopuses (octopi??) as well - they take your primary, you use the inflator reg.
So - what really happened when you or someone you know lost their air?
Bernard
El Stroko Guapo - 23 Apr 2007 21:25 GMT > I recently was involved in a OOA situation - my buddy's reg free-flowed as > we were coming up from 30m off the UK south coast, and lost him his air [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Bernard I've never been in an OOA situation (1400+ dives).
But I keep my octo partly hidden and my primary in plain sight - I expect anyone who needs one of my regs to take the one in my mouth.
If I were asked to give a reg, I'd give the reg in my mouth: the donee may need it more than I, and I can always find my secondary and clear it.
With the increasing number of inflator/secondary regs, it should become a rule that the reg in yer mouth is donated.
Even when yer secondary is on a long hose, I believe the primary should be donated immediately, and when the excitement has calmed down the regs can be swapped for ease of ascent.
esg
Ken - 23 Apr 2007 21:30 GMT >I recently was involved in a OOA situation - my buddy's reg free-flowed as >we were coming up from 30m off the UK south coast, and lost him his air [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > So - what really happened when you or someone you know lost their air? I lost my air, free flow at 30m. I switched to my pony. We were within no-deco limits. My buddy and I made a normal-ish ascent. We came up rather faster than we might have to 15m (but still not so fast as to make our Vypers alarm) and came up at the normal rate from there, inc the usual 3min @ 5m stop. On the surface my pony had 70 bar in it (200 at start of dive)
It was my FIRST dive with my pony, which I reckoned more than paid for itself there and then!
Ken
Sheldon - 24 Apr 2007 01:19 GMT >>I recently was involved in a OOA situation - my buddy's reg free-flowed as >>we were coming up from 30m off the UK south coast, and lost him his air [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Ken Under the right circumstances I would think a pony bottle would be priceless. It carrying one around that noticeable?
Ken - 24 Apr 2007 15:55 GMT >>>I recently was involved in a OOA situation - my buddy's reg free-flowed >>>as we were coming up from 30m off the UK south coast, and lost him his [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > Under the right circumstances I would think a pony bottle would be > priceless. It carrying one around that noticeable? You certainly can tell the difference
Ken
Rod - 25 Apr 2007 00:33 GMT >>>>I recently was involved in a OOA situation - my buddy's reg free-flowed >>>>as we were coming up from 30m off the UK south coast, and lost him his [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > >Ken The only use I would have for a poney bottle is half fill it with Patron and preasurize it, Put a beer tap on it and have it ready for the boat ride back in
Nigel Hewitt - 24 Apr 2007 19:04 GMT > Under the right circumstances I would think a pony bottle would be > priceless. It carrying one around that noticeable? About a kilo negative in the water. Just move a weight off the belt on that side. A bit more out of the water but not a problem.
nigelH
Grumman-581 - 24 Apr 2007 20:01 GMT > About a kilo negative in the water. Just move a weight off the belt on that side. > A bit more out of the water but not a problem. Depends upon the size of the pony bottle... For Curtis, his 'pony' bottle would be an AL80... <grin>
ploppyploppyploppyploppy@googlemail.com - 25 Apr 2007 03:03 GMT > Under the right circumstances I would think a pony bottle would be > priceless. It carrying one around that noticeable? I think a pony's essential if you're diving below the shallows - I'm much more comfortable underwater knowing that I've got a reserve should a couple of things go wrong simultaneously, say freeflow and a buddy separation. Yes I know you shouldn't get separated, but it happens...
In some ways it's a bit awkward (more kit, hose/reg positioning to be taken into consideration etc) but it's a small price to pay. I take about 3kg off my weights when I have my pony, so I don't really notice the difference when stomping around the car park, and I adjust the position of my remaining weights to keep me from being out of kilter underwater (ie less on the side the pony's on).
Better still, get a twin set - that's one big reassuring pony!
Bryan Heit - 23 Apr 2007 21:40 GMT I've been in 3 OOA situation - 2 where my reg free-flowed (cold water freezeup), and one where a buddies reg free flowed (sand in reg). The first time (my 1st free-flow)it was a complete f*ckup - I panicked a little, ignored my buddy (who was trying to pass me his reg), and I ended up doing an emergency accent from ~25m. Luckily I remembered to "scream" on my way up.
After that incident the guys I dive with spent a few dives practicing for these emergencies. The next time it happened (sand incident) we had a bit of warning (reg preformed poorly before free flow). My buddy signaled that he was having a breathing problem, so we started surfacing. He free-flowed at ~10m; I passed him my secondary, we continued our ascent, did a safety stop, and surfaced without incident.
The last time my reg free-flowed without warning - one minute I was breathing fine, the next I was surrounded by bubbles. I "sipped" from my reg and got my buddies attention. He had his secondary in my hand within seconds, and we surfaced normally. I don't even remember being particularly stressed that time.
Lesson learned - practice makes perfect, and can make it so that the proper response is instinct. Makes responding to such a situation real quick & easy - almost mindless. Other lesson learned - stop using rental gear.
Bryan
Al Wells - 23 Apr 2007 21:53 GMT > So - what really happened when you or someone you know lost their air? I had my primary reg yanked from behind me with no warning on a wreck at about 120'. I was using a traditional BC and hose setup. I was breathing the short hose, and my 39" secondary was routed under my right arm and the mouthpiece was stuffed through a loop of surgical tubing that was zip tied to my BC. The OOA guy was slap out of gas, and wanted immediate upness, so I had to fight with him while I got my secondary into my mouth. By the time I was breathing again, my buddy had jumped in to help keep the guy from dragging me to the surface. It's a good thing he didn't have any gas to inflate his BC. We got the guy slowed down and got him to calm down, and I showed him that I had 2000 psi left in my single 108 ( which had a Y valve and 2 first stages) and 2000 psi of O2 in a 30 cu ft tank. The three of us made a proper ascent and stop. It turns out that the OOA guy was a vacationing walk-on who had zero experience in those conditions and that depth. The divemaster had put him as a third in a buddy team, and the other 2 thought he had aborted during the descent.
In another incident, I was doing a 200 ft wreck with my regular buddy and someone I had just met but who had been diving to that depth several times with my buddy. When we were going over the plan, I didn't think the guy had enough gas for what we were planning, so I offered to shorten the bottom time, but he insisted that it was no problem, so we went. We did our planned bottom time, and left the wreck in a ripping current. My buddy one bag as we left the wreck, as agreed with the boat captain. The plan called for the other guy and me to shoot our bags from 80 ft. Our deco stops started at 150', and when we got to 110 the guy signalled to me that he was out of gas. He was very calm, and I gave him the long hose I was breathing from and went to my necklaced secondary. I thought the guy was too calm, and when we got to 80' he didn't shoot his bag or respond to my signals that he should do it, so I took his bag and shot it so the captain wouldn't be looking all over for him. I was right in his face and his eyes were focused and following me, so I figured it was just his way of dealing with screwing up. I gave him the reel with the bag I shot for him and he handled it ok. When we got to 70' he did his gas switch ok, and the rest of the deco was uneventful.
There was another incident where the diver was not out of gas, he had dumped all of his gear, and still calmly signalled for my long hose. That story has been posted here several times ;-)
I don't like the octo/inflator. Most of them are hard to work on, and unless you practice with it, controlling your buoyancy while attached to another diver who may be doing something stupid may be difficult. I prefer the necklaced secondary, which for most people costs just a piece of bungie and a new hose.
Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick - 24 Apr 2007 11:55 GMT > There was another incident where the diver was not out of gas, he had > dumped all of his gear, and still calmly signalled for my long hose. > That story has been posted here several times ;-) Tell it!
Tell it!
Tequila is a drug!
nospam@all.please.net - 23 Apr 2007 23:09 GMT > So - what really happened when you or someone you know lost their air? My primary second stage failed on descent while diving off Cozumel. Some shop monkey had installed the diapraghm incorrectly and it pulled away from the housing. I switched to my octo and continued the dive (I also had a pony bottle) and stashed the primary so it couldn't be mistaken for an air source. I sorted out the problem when we got back to the boat and dove without incident for the rest of the trip.
Grumman-581 - 23 Apr 2007 23:12 GMT > So - what really happened when you or someone you know lost their air? I have had once incident where my buddy and I were crossing through the surf zone and he had bit through his mouthpiece, lost his 2nd stage, and had paniced... This was back in the days when we didn't have SPGs nor octos... We were within a couple of feet of the surface, but he was attempting to strip the reg out of my mouth... I grabbed his tank from the rear and shoved him up to the surface... I held him that way for long enough for him to calm down and then we swam back to shore... I don't think that I ever dove with him again...
Gary Owens - 24 Apr 2007 00:35 GMT OK, I admit it, I ran out of air, ONCE. I had just got the bottle back from "VIP" and the shop idiot didn't tighten the valve. the lower the pressure, the faster the leak. Was at the bottom of Blue Springs in Orange City FL. I looked at my gauge before we entered, was 2800, by the time we hit the bottom (110') it was 300. I was trailing so no one saw it. I grabbed my wifes fin and asked for the secondary, and when she saw the bubbles coming from my tank, she gave it to me without pausing. I didn't panic, for one reason, training. I knew I could go back up without a problem, so I decided to just get my wifes secondary, call the dive, and go back up at a reasonable rate. It really helps to have a dive partner who you have practiced with, and can rely on.
gary Owens
>I recently was involved in a OOA situation - my buddy's reg free-flowed as >we were coming up from 30m off the UK south coast, and lost him his air [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Bernard Lee Bell - 24 Apr 2007 03:51 GMT > OK, I admit it, I ran out of air, ONCE. I had just got the bottle back > from "VIP" and the shop idiot didn't tighten the valve. the lower the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > go back up at a reasonable rate. It really helps to have a dive partner > who you have practiced with, and can rely on. Interesting. I ran out of gas at the bottom of that particular spring, by myself. Since you're familiar with it, you know just how lucky I am to be able to write about it.
Lee
bernardlyall - 24 Apr 2007 22:05 GMT If you were by yourself, how did you deal with it? Did you have a pony? 110' in new money is about 34m - too deep for a swimming ascent I believe...
Bernard
>> OK, I admit it, I ran out of air, ONCE. I had just got the bottle back >> from "VIP" and the shop idiot didn't tighten the valve. the lower the [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Lee Gary Owens - 24 Apr 2007 23:16 GMT Its straight up a hole with light at the top, proper motivation would be all you need. gary Owens Deltona FL
> If you were by yourself, how did you deal with it? Did you have a pony? > 110' in new money is about 34m - too deep for a swimming ascent I [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >> >> Lee Magilla - 24 Apr 2007 23:23 GMT > Its straight up a hole with light at the top, proper motivation would be > all you need. Well, modify that straight up part. Below 60 FFW the main tunnel takes about a 45 deg slope back under overhead. The cork sits at approx 116 FFW, far corner is approx 200 feet total penetration. Flow will help, but it's a long swim, right Lee?
Curtis
Lee Bell - 25 Apr 2007 03:18 GMT > Well, modify that straight up part. Below 60 FFW the main tunnel takes > about a 45 deg slope back under overhead. The cork sits at approx 116 > FFW, far corner is approx 200 feet total penetration. Flow will help, but > it's a long swim, right Lee? Yep except it as 128 feet at that point in the mid 1960s.
nospam@all.please.net - 25 Apr 2007 04:43 GMT >> Well, modify that straight up part. Below 60 FFW the main tunnel takes >> about a 45 deg slope back under overhead. The cork sits at approx 116 >> FFW, far corner is approx 200 feet total penetration. Flow will help, but >> it's a long swim, right Lee? > > Yep except it as 128 feet at that point in the mid 1960s. Care to recount the story?
Magilla - 25 Apr 2007 20:29 GMT >> Well, modify that straight up part. Below 60 FFW the main tunnel >> takes about a 45 deg slope back under overhead. The cork sits at approx >> 116 FFW, far corner is approx 200 feet total penetration. Flow will >> help, but it's a long swim, right Lee?
> Yep except it as 128 feet at that point in the mid 1960s. The 116 FFW is for the top of the Cork, approx average. Been reading the deep spot in the chamber as deep as 122 FFW for the deepest point in the room, with the lowest 116 FFW. 128 FFW would seem like a flood now.
Curtis
Grumman-581 - 25 Apr 2007 21:02 GMT > The 116 FFW is for the top of the Cork, approx average. Been reading > the deep spot in the chamber as deep as 122 FFW for the deepest point in the > room, with the lowest 116 FFW. 128 FFW would seem like a flood now. I wonder how big of a lift bag we'll need to move Cork Rock?
Lee Bell - 26 Apr 2007 12:04 GMT > I wonder how big of a lift bag we'll need to move Cork Rock? No vandalizing dive sites.
Grumman-581 - 26 Apr 2007 19:31 GMT > No vandalizing dive sites. If we just moved it over a couple of feet, that wouldn't be vandalizing it, would it? <evil-grin>
Eventually, it's going to wear down and either fall through the hole or get blown out of the way...
Magilla - 27 Apr 2007 01:09 GMT > If we just moved it over a couple of feet, that wouldn't be > vandalizing it, would it? <evil-grin> But of course. You know the Clinton Lesson.
> Eventually, it's going to wear down and either fall through the hole > or get blown out of the way... There's already been an upper piece collapse, making a new swim under at about 20 FFW.
If and when the cork opens the restriction enough to make it diveable, you can probably kiss OW & Cavern access to the spring goodbye.
Curtis
Grumman-581 - 25 Apr 2007 21:38 GMT > The 116 FFW is for the top of the Cork, approx average. Been reading > the deep spot in the chamber as deep as 122 FFW for the deepest point in the > room, with the lowest 116 FFW. 128 FFW would seem like a flood now. Hmmm... What's the depth of the overhead? I think I've spent most of my time pinned to it instead... <grin>
Magilla - 26 Apr 2007 00:33 GMT >> The 116 FFW is for the top of the Cork, approx average. Been reading >> the deep spot in the chamber as deep as 122 FFW for the deepest point in >> the >> room, with the lowest 116 FFW. 128 FFW would seem like a flood now.
> Hmmm... What's the depth of the overhead? I think I've spent most of > my time pinned to it instead... <grin> That brings back some fond memories. Brought a friend there for his first time, warned him about the flow. He "forgot", and swam over the opening. Pushed him up pretty much instantly about 40 feet. The expression on his face, priceless.
Curtis
Grumman-581 - 26 Apr 2007 01:09 GMT > That brings back some fond memories. Brought a friend there for his > first time, warned him about the flow. He "forgot", and swam over the > opening. Pushed him up pretty much instantly about 40 feet. The expression > on his face, priceless. Yep, it's a pretty damn good flow rate coming out of a relatively small opening... My overhead encounters have always been the result of me trying to get myself into a position to either make it past Cork Rock or at the very least be able to see what was past it... I've "visited" that overhead so many times, there should be a permanent plaque mounted up there with my name on it...
Magilla - 26 Apr 2007 03:46 GMT > Yep, it's a pretty damn good flow rate coming out of a relatively > small opening... My overhead encounters have always been the result of > me trying to get myself into a position to either make it past Cork > Rock or at the very least be able to see what was past it... I've > "visited" that overhead so many times, there should be a permanent > plaque mounted up there with my name on it... That would be preferable to a plaque mounted where you can shine a light on it while peeking over the edge.
"His bones aren't here, but his spirit's kept, He failed to try, as Darwin slept.
His tanks were aired, the narc was good, the day that Darwin, wore a black hood.
Follow me down, if you dare, stay for a while, in Darwin's lair."
Last person I heard made it was removed by grappling hook.
Lee Bell - 26 Apr 2007 12:07 GMT > Last person I heard made it was removed by grappling hook. Should have left them. Fish need to eat too.
While I'm a fairly strong supporter of people's right to kill themselves however they like, I don't see any reason why someone else should tempt the fates in a body recovery attempt.
Fish need to eat too.
Lee
Dan Bracuk - 06 May 2007 13:39 GMT "Lee Bell" <pleebell@bellsouth.net> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in:
:While I'm a fairly strong supporter of people's right to kill themselves :however they like, I don't see any reason why someone else should tempt the :fates in a body recovery attempt. I feel the same way. Cadaver recovery just seems so wasteful.
Dan Bracuk If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure.
Grumman-581 - 06 May 2007 14:40 GMT > I feel the same way. Cadaver recovery just seems so wasteful. Well, unless he has some good gear...
Lee Bell - 25 Apr 2007 03:17 GMT > Its straight up a hole with light at the top, proper motivation would be > all you need. > gary Owens > Deltona FL It's not straight up from Cork Rock. At the time, it was 128 feet at that point. I understand the water table has changed and that the depth at that point is a bit different these days. Then or now, though, it was deep enough to get my attention. Otherwise, you're correct about motivation. I remember thinking for about 5 minutes, in a fraction of a second, that I was dead, then that, if I didn't do something, I surely was dead. So I did the only thing I could, hauled butt. The current helped.
Lee
Lee Bell - 25 Apr 2007 03:14 GMT > If you were by yourself, how did you deal with it? Did you have a pony? > 110' in new money is about 34m - too deep for a swimming ascent I > believe... 128 feet, but who's counting. I was by Cork Rock.
Sometimes your options are limited. My were limited to swimming my a.s off, so I did. Going with the current, it's safe to say I exceeded anything remotely like a safe ascent speed and I was probably close to required deco when I started up. That was back in the mid 1960s, when we believed you could not go deep enough, long enough with a single tank to require deco. I have no clue why I made it to the surface or why I was not bent when I did except, perhaps, there was someone looking after me that day. When I took my regulator off the tank and opened the valve it sucked air in.
Lee
Grumman-581 - 25 Apr 2007 05:43 GMT > I have no clue why I made it to the surface or why I was not bent when > I did except, perhaps, there was someone looking after me that day. Trust me -- Darwin sleeps...
nospam@all.please.net - 25 Apr 2007 06:09 GMT >> I have no clue why I made it to the surface or why I was not bent when >> I did except, perhaps, there was someone looking after me that day. > > Trust me -- Darwin sleeps... As does his half-cousin Francis Galton:
I have no patience with the hypothesis occasionally expressed, and often implied, especially in tales written to teach children to be good, that babies are born pretty much alike, and that the sole agencies in creating differences between boy and boy, and man and man, are steady application and moral effort. It is in the most unqualified manner that I object to pretensions of natural equality. The experiences of the nursery, the school, the University, and of professional careers, are a chain of proofs to the contrary. -- Francis Galton, Hereditary Genius
Letter from Darwin to Galton.
DOWN, BECKENHAM, KENT, S.E. December 23rd
"MY DEAR GALTON,--I have only read about 50 pages of your book (to the Judges), but I must exhale myself, else something will go wrong in my inside. I do not think I ever in all my life read anything more interesting and original--and how well and clearly you put every point! George, who has finished the book, and who expressed himself in just the same terms, tells me that the earlier chapters are nothing in interest to the later ones! It will take me some time to get to these latter chapters, as it is read aloud to me by my wife, who is also much interested. You have made a convert of an opponent in one sense, for I have always maintained that, excepting fools, men did not differ much in intellect, only in zeal and hard work; and I still think this is an eminently important difference. I congratulate you on producing what I am convinced will prove a memorable work. I look forward with intense interest to each reading, but it sets me thinking so much that I find it very hard work; but that is wholly the fault of my brain and not of your beautifully clear style.--Yours most sincerely, (Signed) "CH. DARWIN"
This appears in The Letters of Charles Darwin as LETTER 410.
John Mason Jr - 25 Apr 2007 00:32 GMT > OK, I admit it, I ran out of air, ONCE. I had just got the bottle back from > "VIP" and the shop idiot didn't tighten the valve. the lower the pressure, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > gary Owens A bubble check is a really good thing.
John
Joe - 08 May 2007 02:06 GMT If a shop monkey do something to screw up your regulator on the suuposed mandatory yearly maintenance. Then I go to another shop and the tech knew what happened and fix it.
How long can I co before I get it to service...I don;t want the shop monkey to screw it up again.
>I recently was involved in a OOA situation - my buddy's reg free-flowed as >we were coming up from 30m off the UK south coast, and lost him his air [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Bernard Lee Bell - 08 May 2007 02:35 GMT > If a shop monkey do something to screw up your regulator on the > suuposed mandatory yearly maintenance. Then I go to another shop and > the tech knew what happened and fix it. > > How long can I co before I get it to service...I don;t want the shop > monkey to screw it up again. If you're required to get annual service, then you have a year from the date last entered into your record for service.
As for taking it to the shop that messed it up, why would you do that? Take it to the guy that fixed it.
Lee
Doh - 16 May 2007 00:35 GMT > I recently was involved in a OOA situation - my buddy's reg free-flowed as > we were coming up from 30m off the UK south coast, and lost him his air [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Bernard It would be interesting/usefull to have the previuos posters add the following detail to their posts:
How many dives they have ever done/ dives per year. How often they have their kit serviced.
as it seems to be that nearly all incidents were down to poor kit maintenance rather than luck/training.
I am part of a dive operation that insists on regulator service (for staff and students) every 100 dives/ 12 months and
given
I do 250 (cold water) dives per year, plus 100+ pool sessions, have 6 colleagues and countless students passing thru - in the four years I have been diving we have NEVER seen a free flow incident or real reg failure (ie not counting where a student spits a reg out and holds it up the wrong way until we sort it).
Is this luck or just the atitude to kit?
bernardlyall - 29 May 2007 11:46 GMT Well, the fellow whose reg failed had just qualified as a Divemaster, which puts him on a bit over 100, I suppose. His reg was a high-end Apeks, serviced 6 months previously. I don't recall us ploughing into mud or anything else which might have jammed it up.
Bernard
>> I recently was involved in a OOA situation - my buddy's reg free-flowed >> as we were coming up from 30m off the UK south coast, and lost him his [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Is this luck or just the atitude to kit? Doh - 29 May 2007 14:10 GMT > Well, the fellow whose reg failed had just qualified as a Divemaster, which > puts him on a bit over 100, I suppose. His reg was a high-end Apeks, > serviced 6 months previously. I don't recall us ploughing into mud or > anything else which might have jammed it up. Divemaster only needs 60 dives for qualification, so number of dives doesn't seem to be an issue here - unless he also did a lot of pool seesions.
> Bernard > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] >> >> Is this luck or just the atitude to kit? Nigel Hewitt - 29 May 2007 15:02 GMT > I do 250 (cold water) dives per year, plus 100+ pool sessions, have 6 > colleagues and countless students passing thru - [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Is this luck or just the atitude to kit? It used to be worse but the manufacturers work at it and regs get better as time goes by.
I've never had a freeflow but that doesn't stop me looking at them all suspiciously and checking I can shut them all down before getting into the water when the plan calls for an hour dangling on a string to get back to the surface.
nigelH
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