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Scuba Forum / General / April 2007firefighters - inverted tanks
While watching a TV show with some firefighters, my son noticed that the tanks were worn inverted, with the valve & hoses on the bottom vs top compared to SCUBA... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCBA Any ideas on this ? We thought maybe it would present less obstacles while climbing thru stuff ? > While watching a TV show with some firefighters, > my son noticed that the tanks were worn inverted, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > We thought maybe it would present less obstacles > while climbing thru stuff ? Many early scuba systems also used inverted tanks. The firefighters and mine rescuers like the easy access to the valves. Scuba divers like the ability to don and doff tanks from a sitting position without assistance and the shorter hoses, especially for BC and drysuit inflation. Different strokes for different folks. esg > Many early scuba systems also used inverted tanks. The firefighters and > mine rescuers like the easy access to the valves. Scuba divers like the > ability to don and doff tanks from a sitting position without assistance > and the shorter hoses, especially for BC and drysuit inflation. > > Different strokes for different folks. Did you say "strokes"? :) >> Many early scuba systems also used inverted tanks. The firefighters and >> mine rescuers like the easy access to the valves. Scuba divers like the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> > Did you say "strokes"? :) Oh Jesus, I thought we had all moved past that. By the way, what ever happened to that loud-mouth george guy? > >> Many early scuba systems also used inverted tanks. The firefighters and > >> mine rescuers like the easy access to the valves. Scuba divers like the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Oh Jesus, I thought we had all moved past that. By the way, what ever > happened to that loud-mouth george guy? http://www.gavinscootersfl.com/index.html >> >> Many early scuba systems also used inverted tanks. The firefighters >> >> and [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > http://www.gavinscootersfl.com/index.html Please tell me that isn't a picture of Georgyboy?! God, who ever it is looks just like me in my youth, except I never would have worn a Speedo! LOL kula > Oh Jesus, I thought we had all moved past that. By the way, what ever > happened to that loud-mouth george guy? It's been a long time since there's been any sting to the term stroke. Many of those that post here take pride in being part of Team Stroke, note the capital letters. Many of those who were doing the name calling have had to eat humble pie since their configurations have evolved, sometimes very much as suggested by those they used to call stroke and farm animal stupid. Imagine that. George retired from public (newsgroup) life to take over his family business, a very well known and apparently successful marine service business in Ft. Lauderdale. His family is a long way from the poorhouse. Rumor has it he left his diving girlfriend of many years and married someone else. As I understand it, he's still diving and probably still diving in caves, but has surrendered most, if not all, control of the WKPP. He, and everyone else, is happier being much less public than used to be the case. The only thing that's reasonably certain is that he's not confronting rec.scuba participants in the parking lot of Brownies Southport any more and rarely, if ever, threatens us with his quick draw attorney Alton Hall. Lee > > While watching a TV show with some firefighters, > > my son noticed that the tanks were worn inverted, [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > esg Inverting the tank also keeps condensation inside the tank near the neck. Firefighter units are exposed to a lot more extreme teperatures an temerature changes than your average scuba rig. > Many early scuba systems also used inverted tanks. The firefighters and > mine rescuers like the easy access to the valves. Scuba divers like the > ability to don and doff tanks from a sitting position without assistance > and the shorter hoses, especially for BC and drysuit inflation. > > Different strokes for different folks. We have a particular shop up here training people to wear dubs upside down. I have pictures of the rigs, it is simply mindblowing. Long hoses going up the back, over the shoulder and back down, retainers, cable ties and crap everywhere, cages over the valves and regs to keep them from getting damaged when you stand them up, boots on the tanks (up behind your head?!?), all of it. Percundis mal grande. De-evolution and stupidity at it's finest, and they must have had one of everything the dive store sells. Had to use hand trucks to move them. You can hardly get to the regs to remove them to fill the tanks. > > Many early scuba systems also used inverted tanks. The firefighters and > > mine rescuers like the easy access to the valves. Scuba divers like the [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > You can hardly get to the regs to remove them to fill the tanks. what shop is this? I want to be there when they go in for training dives. I won't stay long; I hate rescues (and recoveries.) * > what shop is this? I want to be there when they go in for training > dives. I won't stay long; I hate rescues (and recoveries.) Check yer mail. > > what shop is this? I want to be there when they go in for training > > dives. I won't stay long; I hate rescues (and recoveries.) > > Check yer mail. OMG. * > > Check yer mail. > OMG. No one would believe it if it werent for the pictures, and words fail in trying to describe the cluster f.ck. > > > Check yer mail. > > OMG. > > No one would believe it if it werent for the pictures, and words fail in > trying to describe the cluster f.ck. I gotta see this. As Wagner would say, "you can't BUY this kidn of entertainment." >>Many early scuba systems also used inverted tanks. The firefighters and >>mine rescuers like the easy access to the valves. Scuba divers like the [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > You can hardly get to the regs to remove them to fill the tanks. Got the pic. Have to admit I can't figure out what half that crap is. esg > >>Many early scuba systems also used inverted tanks. The firefighters and > >>mine rescuers like the easy access to the valves. Scuba divers like the [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > esg Silly, there's clearly a pair of snips and a bungee wing and a cannister, and lots of hoses. * > Silly, there's clearly a pair of snips and a bungee wing and a > cannister, and lots of hoses. Neither rig was identical, had quick disconnects on the integrated computer/SPG and regs, battery canister hard mounted to the back plate, brass clips, suicide clips, strobes on the epaulettes, slob winders, all of it. Snips *and* knives. Funniest part, I think, is that they use the OMS reg protection cage with the strut, so they wont stand up. The tank boots are still on the bottles, only behind their heads. Can you imagine swimming that mess against a current, no matter how small? You couldnt fight a knot of current, forget a search or recovery dive in a river, ten elephants couldnt hold you. And, of course, split fins and snorkels; the really expensive US Divers snorkels. Kind of a "crayola" dive rig; instead of every color in the box, every piece of gear in the shop. > Can you imagine swimming that mess against a current, no matter how small? > > You couldnt fight a knot of current, forget a search or recovery dive in a > river, ten elephants couldnt hold you. Having used both Scuba and Fire service SCBA, the main reason for the firefighters inverting the tanks is for easy access to the HP valve. Also, while wearing a fire service SCBA, the user really doesn't spend much time sitting down while wearing it. If the user does sit down, it is usually in a rider seat in the truck which is designed to accomodate the SCBA. While most divers I know don't spend a lot of time sitting wearing Scuba gear, there are some times when that might be necessary and all of the diver seats I have seen are just benches that run the length of the boat or dock, but are certainly not designed specifically for someone wearing a tank. At least for any length of time. Check yer mail. > > Can you imagine swimming that mess against a current, no matter how small? > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > length of the boat or dock, but are certainly not designed specifically > for someone wearing a tank. At least for any length of time. > Having used both Scuba and Fire service SCBA, the main reason for the > firefighters inverting the tanks is for easy access to the HP valve. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > length of the boat or dock, but are certainly not designed specifically > for someone wearing a tank. At least for any length of time. Aluminum 80's have flat bottoms that are perfect for standing them on the tailgate or sitting on the bench. Sitting on the bench with them makes you look loaded, but... >>Having used both Scuba and Fire service SCBA, the main reason for the >>firefighters inverting the tanks is for easy access to the HP valve. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Sitting on the bench with them makes you look loaded, but... True about the Al80's but every boat I have ever been on, by the time you put your rig on, you are literally sitting on the edge of your seat. This is usually while waiting for others to hit the water and only for a few minutes. Certainly not comfortable and certainly a position you don't want to be in for more than a few minutes. I have worn fire service SCBA's for hours at a time on occasions. One occasion I went through 6 bottles before I was pulled. I would usually take the air pack off if I was taking a break. The newer HP systems (4500psi) are much smaller and lighter than the old steel bottles we used to use. > The newer HP systems (4500psi) are much smaller and lighter than the old > steel bottles we used to use. Weight and buoyancy issues abound, and find a dive shop that can jack a 4500 bottle. >>The newer HP systems (4500psi) are much smaller and lighter than the old >>steel bottles we used to use. > > Weight and buoyancy issues abound, and find a dive shop that can jack a 4500 > bottle. I agree. The new HP SCBA bottles would be totally unsuitable for any type of dive operation. I was just comparing the new technology with what it was like when I first started. > I agree. The new HP SCBA bottles would be totally unsuitable for any > type of dive operation. I was just comparing the new technology with > what it was like when I first started. Gotcha. I had to do all that when working on the offshore platforms and plants in Alaska in the oil patch. Rattlers, H2S04 detectors, etc. We even had old rebreathers that wouldnt be suitable for diving but were to allow more time to assess and maybe rescue. By the time the RB's came out, there was little hope of finding survivors, only recovery. > We even had old rebreathers that wouldnt be suitable for diving but were to > allow more time to assess and maybe rescue. Aboard ship, we had the old OBAs with an oxygen generator canister and counterlung mounted on your chest... The canisters were good at producing oxygen for about 30-60 minutes, depending upon your activity level... From what I understand, they Navy has been replacing these with SCBAs... Don't know if they've completed the replacement on all ships yet though... Supposedly the SCBAs that they went with have a fast fill capability of less than a minute... http://www.dcfp.navy.mil/library/dcnews/SCBACaseStudy.htm Turns out that the OBAs have basically been around for about 50 years without any major changes to them... > Neither rig was identical, had quick disconnects on the integrated > computer/SPG and regs, battery canister hard mounted to the back plate, > brass clips, suicide clips, strobes on the epaulettes, slob winders, all of > it. Snips *and* knives. Obviously, they're still working out the bugs with their configuration, thus the various versions of it... <snicker> From the photos, it is kind of difficult to see how it is all supposed to be laid out... Perhaps it might look a bit more organized if the photos had been taken while someone was wearing it... But I doubt it... Not exactly a clean configuration... But then again, the sort of mentality that put together such a configuration probably would result in an over the shoulder configuration that was similarly unclean... >>Neither rig was identical, had quick disconnects on the integrated >>computer/SPG and regs, battery canister hard mounted to the back plate, [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > mentality that put together such a configuration probably would result > in an over the shoulder configuration that was similarly unclean... Hell Grummy....I would figure an engineer such as yourself would have figured the alternate use for this configuration..... :) http://www.padiskydiver.com/padiskydiver.swf > Obviously, they're still working out the bugs with their > configuration, thus the various versions of it... <snicker> Not at all; Puffed chests, struts, all of it. I can do a couple jumping jacks and a couple pushups in my rig (it aint that light, and I am old). Trying that in these things would be like asking Cynthia Myers to do jumping jacks with no bra. > Trying that in these things would be like asking Cynthia Myers to do jumping > jacks with no bra. So, in other words, you would pay to see it? <dirty-old-man-grin> > > Trying that in these things would be like asking Cynthia Myers to do jumping > > jacks with no bra. > > So, in other words, you would pay to see it? <dirty-old-man-grin> Naw, the last show was free. >>>>Many early scuba systems also used inverted tanks. The firefighters and >>>>mine rescuers like the easy access to the valves. Scuba divers like the [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > * There also appears to be a pair of UV goggles.... > Got the pic. Have to admit I can't figure out what half that crap is. I must have stared that mess for 15 minutes while these guys strutted around thinking I thought they were cool. Members of a local S&R Dive Team. > We have a particular shop up here training people to wear dubs upside down. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > from getting damaged when you stand them up, boots on the tanks (up behind > your head?!?), all of it. The problem with putting the valves at the bottom seems to mainly be that you have to add so many other things to make up for that decision that you counteract the benefit that you get from it... If someone really tried, but could come up with a somewhat clean installion with the hoses coming from the bottom, but it would probably consist of a manifold block on the chest with the various hoses from the tanks going into it... It still probably won't be as clean as just having the hoses go over the shoulders though... It's not exactly the case of a solution looking for a problem... More of a solution being worse than the original problem... I was informed last night the students in Kaitlyn's SSI class will need to do two weekend dive days in the shop's pool so that they can work on the skills that they have been learning in the class pool sessions... Of course, this means that I'll need to be in the water with her... My current gear configuration would be a bit out of place there... I think I'll just go the classic route... I'll get one of my old Dacor or US Divers plastic backplates with web harness and no BC... Hell, I'm just going to be sitting on the bottom watching out for her anyway... The minimalist approach should be quite the change from the shop's push for the latest (and supposedly greatest <snicker>) equipment for their students... Hell, I had one instructor even say that there was no way he would dive with the Dacor 150 1st stage that I happened to have in my truck last night... >>We have a particular shop up here training people to wear dubs upside down. >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > a solution looking for a problem... More of a solution being worse > than the original problem... I was putting together a free-flow scuba system (eliminating the regulator eliminates a lot of failure points, drag, and cost...) and was working with an inverted Al 80 feeding a chest mounted counterlung. It didn't work, but it sure was clean! esg > I was putting together a free-flow scuba system (eliminating the > regulator eliminates a lot of failure points, drag, and cost...) and was > working with an inverted Al 80 feeding a chest mounted counterlung. > > It didn't work, but it sure was clean! Tsk. You should have used a goat bladder... > I was putting together a free-flow scuba system (eliminating the > regulator eliminates a lot of failure points, drag, and cost...) and was > working with an inverted Al 80 feeding a chest mounted counterlung. > > It didn't work, but it sure was clean! Obviously, you just didn't select the right size orifice for the HP air injection mechanism... > I have pictures of the rigs, it is simply mindblowing. Gotta see! Actually have seen dub 104s worn upside down at Ginnie a long time ago. Curtis > Gotta see! somebody actually gonna dive that, or submit it for display as a piece of "art"? > > Gotta see! > > somebody actually gonna dive that, or submit it for display as a piece > of "art"? Spooky. Fact. What you gonna do? >> somebody actually gonna dive that, or submit it for display as a >> piece [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > What you gonna do? Call the filming crew for "Jackass". > >> somebody actually gonna dive that, or submit it for display as a > >> piece > >> of "art"? > > Spooky. > > > > Fact. > > What you gonna do? > Call the filming crew for "Jackass". <cough> As a bud who runs a fishing boat from here to the bearing straits said; "You just cant save 'em, man." |
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