Scuba Forum / General / April 2007
Two (relative) newbie q's: ears and gear
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Penny S - 09 Apr 2007 17:09 GMT Howdy, just got back from 7 days in Bonaire, whee!
anyway, this first question comes from my mountaineering background: Is there a list of recommended "10 essentials" for diving? After BC, regulator and mask of course. There are so many gadgets, add ons, safety gear and so on... what are the basics? I'm sure this is up for debate....;-)
second, our dive guide alluded to not using AC at night to help with ear problems, but he did not go into detail. Any thoughts?
And yes, I did google these, didn't find much.
tia~
Penny
Scott - 09 Apr 2007 17:23 GMT > Howdy, just got back from 7 days in Bonaire, whee! > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Penny 1st and most important choice in gear is your dive buddy. Can literally be the difference between life and death.
In no particular order would be primary light,
http://www.uwkinetics.com/products/detail.php?ProductID=25&cat=6
Or if you really get into it;
http://www.oxycheq.com/Oxycheq/torch/62743497-A955-492E-8F68-FD5A420875F8.html
backup light,
http://www.uwkinetics.com/products/detail.php?ProductID=9&cat=6
spool,
http://www.oxycheq.com/Oxycheq/reelsspools/BBEBA80F-CBFA-4612-A6B4-F1E73DCBB189.html
surface marker buoy,
http://www.oxycheq.com/Oxycheq/safety/769C2235-259B-418F-A9F4-3187726FC1CD.html
And a cutting device. In this area we prefer trauma shears to knives because of the number of fishing nets and fishing line that can be encountered. Trying to cut fishing line and nets with a knife most always only makes it tighter.
And a set of wet notes gets to be really handy;
http://www.oxycheq.com/Oxycheq/wetnotes/AB8EAA7B-687B-45A8-B330-AF096050ADE8.html
El Stroko Guapo - 09 Apr 2007 17:32 GMT > Howdy, just got back from 7 days in Bonaire, whee! > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > mask of course. There are so many gadgets, add ons, safety gear and so on... > what are the basics? I'm sure this is up for debate....;-) There are very few "essentials" for diving, I would not even include a BC in that list. The diver that gets on the boat looking like a walking dive shop better be ready for a lot of snickering.
For any given dive, there are essentials, niceties, and excess baggage. Planning the dive includes sorting these out and the lists are quite different for a fun talk to the tunicates dive, a wreck dive, a night dive, a cave dive, a hunting dive, a tech dive, etc.
Avoid the urge to load up on gadgets and "safety" gimmicks; keep yer rig clean, simple, streamlined, and appropriate to the dive and conditions you will be doing; if you are unsure what is appropriate, that means you are inexperienced in that type of diving and should consult someone who is experienced.
> second, our dive guide alluded to not using AC at night to help with ear > problems, but he did not go into detail. Any thoughts? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Penny Lee Bell - 09 Apr 2007 17:49 GMT > There are very few "essentials" for diving, I would not even include a > BC in that list. The diver that gets on the boat looking like a walking > dive shop better be ready for a lot of snickering. I would consider both a BC of some kind and an octopus as essential, but only because every dive boat I now of requires them.
> For any given dive, there are essentials, niceties, and excess baggage. > Planning the dive includes sorting these out and the lists are [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > that means you are inexperienced in that type of diving > and should consult someone who is experienced. Good advice communicated efficiently.
>> second, our dive guide alluded to not using AC at night to help with ear >> problems, but he did not go into detail. Any thoughts? There's no one way on this one. If AC increases your congestion the next day, there may be some merit to the suggestion. If, on the other hand, you have allergies, chances are AC improves things for you. You just have to learn what works for you. You do that by diving under different conditions.
You didn't share what your ear problems are, so it's hard to be specific regarding what will help. Everybody has to equalize the pressure in their ears. Some do it almost without thinking about it, others have to work at it a bit. You'll learn what is right for you as your diving experience increases too. A couple of suggestions to get you started: 1. Start equalizing early, before you actually feel pressure and, for sure, before you feel pain. Many equalize the first time while they are still on the surface. 2. Avoid diving when you are congested if you can. If you can't, consider taking some kind of decongestant before you dive. It's best to check with an ENT that has diving experience. Some work better than others and some have side affects you'd rather not experience while diving.
Lee
Greg Mossman - 09 Apr 2007 18:31 GMT > There's no one way on this one. If AC increases your congestion the next > day, there may be some merit to the suggestion. If, on the other hand, you > have allergies, chances are AC improves things for you. You just have to > learn what works for you. You do that by diving under different conditions. If there's no ceiling fan, there are plenty of places where lack of A/ C could be extremely uncomfortable if not deadly. In a cramped liveaboard cabin it's very necessary. Unfortunately I've been on several boats where the A/C is positioned to blast directly in one's ears while sleeping, and that can definitely make at least one diver congested. I've squirted plenty of Afrin up my nose in direct response to too much overnight A/C.
But other things can mess up your head too. I read somewhere that eating dairy products increases mucus formation, so I swore off dairy on dive trips, ordering my post-dive cheeseburgers without cheese, and drinking my coffee black. Didn't seem to make enough of a difference, thank god, so I threw that idea out.
Boat exhaust can be a killer, and sometimes hard to avoid if you're seated by the engine.
The worst for me now is plane travel. I've ended up with a cold a couple days into a trip that can only be timed with my flight there. Lately, I've been fine, but now Janna gets the cold first and then sure enough, a couple days later so do I. My next flight, we're gonna wear masks, I swear.
> 2. Avoid diving when you are congested if you can. If you can't, consider > taking some kind of decongestant before you dive. It's best to check with > an ENT that has diving experience. Some work better than others and some > have side affects you'd rather not experience while diving. The codeine cough syrup is out?
For the average person without any contraindications, a diving ENT may suggest one or both OTC remedies: pseudoefedrine (i.e. Sudafed) and/or oxymetazoline (i.e. Afrin spray). Both work, great in combination, but both have side effects as well.
Sudafed can make you wired (bad if you need your beauty sleep in order to catch an early a.m. dive boat, but nice for a fiesta night) and it can wreak havoc with blood pressure. The latter effect is particularly of note for scuba divers where the major cause of death is heart attack or stroke from over-exertion.
Afrin has a "rebound effect" which means that when it wears off, you're back where you started, or actually a slight bit worse than where you started. That means you have to squirt it again the next day, and the next, and so on. To some, this leads to addiction; to others, it means you at least have to squirt it every single morning of the rest of your dive trip. Unlike easily popping a pill like Sudafed, the nasal spray makes you cough and gag as the bitter fluid runs down your throat, and it's best not done in mixed company at the breakfast table, and preferably with lots of Kleenex at hand.
There are likely other side effects of both drugs, which is why the cautious may wish to get the advice of a doctor, but these are OTC solutions and therefore self-prescribable. AFAIK, in the normal case of diver congestion, the ENT won't recommend any more than the above. At least that's what my ENT recommended.
(Murray Grossan, a diving ENT who happens to be based out of the hospital where I was born, makes a product called Clear-eze. He used to spam them here, so I was forced to boycott it and hence haven't tried it, but it's a natural enzyme-based product that he swears works. I don't know if he and his product are still around, but that's yet another choice.)
A final warning about the decongestant drugs: one side effect that pretty much affects divers alone (but it can happen on an airplane as well) is the reverse block. That is, the decongestants can wear off mid-dive, and make it near impossible for your tubes to equalize back in the other direction as you ascend. This can be a major PITA (or PITE to be precise) because it's a bit too late to abort the dive at that point.
Also, any ear trauma you suffer during a dive trip may haunt you on the plane ride home. If you need meds to dive, it might be a good idea to use them before take off and landing.
Lee Bell - 09 Apr 2007 21:07 GMT > The codeine cough syrup is out? Probably. Considering, however, your experience with diving, and doing everything else, under the influence of mind altering chemicals, you'd probably be fine. Then again, you already know about as much as you ever will about things that affect your ears while diving.
> For the average person without any contraindications, a diving ENT may > suggest one or both OTC remedies: pseudoefedrine (i.e. Sudafed) and/or > oxymetazoline (i.e. Afrin spray). Both work, great in combination, > but both have side effects as well. Jayna's ENT perscribed Zephrex, which is a time release pseudoefedrine pill. They well without complications, but the generic version wires you too. I don't normally react strongly to any drugs, but one hit of the generic Zephrex kept me up and bright eyed for the best part of 24 hours. We'll stick with the more expensive version in the future.
Lee
Greg Mossman - 09 Apr 2007 21:34 GMT > > The codeine cough syrup is out? > > Probably. Considering, however, your experience with diving, and doing > everything else, under the influence of mind altering chemicals, you'd > probably be fine. Then again, you already know about as much as you ever > will about things that affect your ears while diving. Simulated narcosis research using available human subject, purely in the interest of advancing science. Nothing too mind-altering since that would be dangerous.
> > For the average person without any contraindications, a diving ENT may > > suggest one or both OTC remedies: pseudoefedrine (i.e. Sudafed) and/or [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Zephrex kept me up and bright eyed for the best part of 24 hours. We'll > stick with the more expensive version in the future. I use 24-hour Sudafed to ward off a reverse block. It sounds like it's the same as Zephrex LA, but lacking guaifenisin (the same expectorant used in Nyquil) and the higher price tag. I almost made it through my last trip without touching the stuff until I finally succumbed Janna's cold on the last day. Suffering through the Town Pier night dive, with its constant ups-and-downs in the 0-20' range was murder; even all that beer I drank prior didn't make me feel any better.
Lee Bell - 10 Apr 2007 01:08 GMT > Simulated narcosis research using available human subject, purely in > the interest of advancing science. Nothing too mind-altering since > that would be dangerous. Clearly meaningful and worthwhile research, but dead brain cells with every test.
> Suffering through the Town Pier night dive, with its constant > ups-and-downs in the 0-20' range > was murder; even all that beer I drank prior didn't make me feel any > better. I try very hard to stay below 20 feet or above 15. Buoyancy in the 15 to 20 foot range is just too much trouble.
Lee
Greg Mossman - 10 Apr 2007 01:24 GMT > > Simulated narcosis research using available human subject, purely in > > the interest of advancing science. Nothing too mind-altering since > > that would be dangerous. > > Clearly meaningful and worthwhile research, but dead brain cells with every > test. Fortunately we only use 10% of our brain, or something like that. Lots of redundancy means plenty to waste.
Besides, unlike most people, my brain grows back better than before. What doesn't kill me makes me smarter. I attribute my successful regeneration to intense hyperbaric therapy, sometimes for hours a day.
> > Suffering through the Town Pier night dive, with its constant > > ups-and-downs in the 0-20' range [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I try very hard to stay below 20 feet or above 15. Buoyancy in the 15 to 20 > foot range is just too much trouble. My first dive there a few years ago was a real joke, new to using a camera, first time shooting at night and not knowing what the heck I was doing, trying to hold the camera in one hand and a light in the other. I didn't destroy any marine life or kill myself, but I can't say I had very much fun and none of the shots turned out (my autofocus doesn't like night diving much). But at least my ears were in shape.
This time, no task loading other than a light, but you still have to go up and down each pillar in order to find something exciting, i.e. a frogfish. Up and down, then a little along the bottom at 20' to the next set of pillars, then up and down again, and repeat for one hour. The fourth dive of the day and I had been congested since the morning. I'm surprised my ears weren't draining blood after that CF. Needless to say, they were plugged and giving me that crackly sound for days after and I had to say "What?" a lot. Never again.
I love diving.
JOF - 09 Apr 2007 19:57 GMT > > Howdy, just got back from 7 days in Bonaire, whee! > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > BC in that list. The diver that gets on the boat looking like a walking > dive shop better be ready for a lot of snickering. I encountered a diver on the reef in Grand Cayman wearing only shorts, a teeshirt, an al80 mounted on one of the old plastic/fibreglass backplates, fins, mask and a reg setup. (no wetsuit, no lead, no snorkle, no gizmoes), It happened very fast but I don't think he even had a secondary reg (we were only at 40 or 50' anyway). I forget if he wore a watch or computer but I remember something on his wrist.
I remember him clearly because I was setting up a photo of a Grouper cleaning station as this guy came smoking through the crevice below me spoiling my shot. He had the courtesy to radio our boat after we surfaced to apologize for wrecking the shot. This was only a couple of years ago.
As Lee says later you probably won't get away with the minimalist approach with most dive ops and in fact I'm pretty sure this guy was working for the dive op.
JF
chilly - 09 Apr 2007 20:29 GMT > Howdy, just got back from 7 days in Bonaire, whee! > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > second, our dive guide alluded to not using AC at night to help with ear > problems, but he did not go into detail. Any thoughts? Did you actually have any ear problems?
In any event, I've never heard that AC has anything specific to do with ear problems, other than ear problems can arise if you are congested. In that regard, I've heard people claim that AC can cause congestion. This has never been the case for me and sleeping without AC has caused me more discomfort more often, than not having it on.
As for your ears, assuming you did have some equalization problems, then my advice is to start equalizing early. You know how to equalize on a plane, yes? Start gentle equalizations in your room, again at the dock, again on the boat, again at the surface, again within a foot of the surface and so on. Equalize early, equalize often . . it should not be necessary to equalize 'hard' and if you find yourself doing that to unblock, you've already left it too late. Rise a little (a foot or so) in the water column and try again, gently).
Rod - 10 Apr 2007 00:22 GMT >Howdy, just got back from 7 days in Bonaire, whee! > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Penny Where did you stay ? Where did you Dive ? I would reccomend an orange safety susage, a name tag with a mirror back, and a whistle of some nature. You don't need a spool or a tow flag on that type of dive and the dive alert type things I feel just add another point of failure.
dsziede@hotmail.com - 15 Apr 2007 17:01 GMT The AC allusion was probably to outer ear infection. They get chapped. Once chapped, they are easy to infect. One livaboard I was on sets the AC to "Arctic Waste." I unscrewed the vent in my cabin and blocked it with their glossy brochure.
I swim year-round, so am prone to ear infections unless I am careful to keep them warm and dry. Sudafed and Afrin are OK, but I made Bambi eyes ad my MD and got a prescription Nasonex. It is a steroid, but does not absorb so lacks steroid negative effects. As effective as Afrin, without the bounce-back.
Dick
>Howdy, just got back from 7 days in Bonaire, whee! > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Penny Greg Mossman - 16 Apr 2007 01:05 GMT On Apr 15, 9:01 am, dszi...@hotmail.com wrote:
> The AC allusion was probably to outer ear infection. They get > chapped. Once chapped, they are easy to infect. One livaboard I was [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > does not absorb so lacks steroid negative effects. As effective as > Afrin, without the bounce-back. All I had to do to get a Nasonex prescription was make sure my health insurance was paid up. It's not exactly a controlled substance.
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